relationship with mom is affecting my mental health

[Our abuse recovery guide]

Hi all! I've written on the board once before about my mother's behavior regarding my upcoming engagement (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=210985.msg12323956#msg12323956) and I'm having a bit of trouble at the moment. This is SUPER long, I do apologize.

I had the worst Thanksgiving with my mother, and now my anxiety is through the roof.

I was diagnosed with panic disorder after having a series of panic attacks after college. I was on anti-depressants and anti-anxiety medication but I would go through these weird states where I would be totally unlike myself and do really destructive things, and I tried to put myself in a coma/get myself admitted to a hospital by taking xanax and clonopin in 2011. I was trying to get myself admitted to a hospital because I didn't want to live with my mom because of her emotional abuse and lack of physical boundaries, but they let her stay for the psych eval so I just pretended like it was an accident. I stopped taking medication a over year ago and have been doing great, with minimal anxiety, no panic attacks, and no depression. But now I feel like it's all coming back and I am struggling to get a hold on it.

At Thanksgiving, I felt like I was going to have a panic attack for the first time in a year. Actually, since last Thanksgiving where my mom was terrible and I was so wound up that I was vomiting and shaking. Thanksgiving consisted of my BF, his father, my mother, and I at his father's vacation home. I cooked Thanksgiving dinner.

My mother has zero physical boundaries. When I was younger, she would tell everyone details about me going through puberty. She would walk around naked, use the bathroom with the door open, and insist that I keep my door open when undressing. If I didn't she'd have a fit. Now that I don't live with her, I don't have to worry about those things, but she still has no boundaries. When I lived in a different state, she would come visit uninvited and insist on sleeping in the bed with me. I didn't (because I didn't feel comfortable with that) and she would be livid with me. I don't like hugs from her because she will hug me for way too long/not let me go and kiss my face in a way that makes me feel uncomfortable. When I saw her earlier this year, she put her hand in my front pocket and it was very inappropriate. I can't even describe it, but I knew in my gut it was not okay. At Thanksgiving, she forcefully pulled me by my hair to put my hair in a bun because she does not like my hair, and stood MAYBE an inch away from me at all times telling me that I was doing things wrong. She doesn't cook and has never cooked a Thanksgiving meal. If I went in the kitchen to do anything, she would follow me in and say "Nope, you need to do this" and tell me to do things in a panicky, loud way. I asked her to stop, she wouldn't stop. The more I asked, the more she did it, and she thought it was hilarious. She tried to get my boyfriend to do it, too, and he wouldn't play her game (she often is mean to me and tries to get him to side with her). That she was so micromanaging was infuriating enough, and her standing so close to me when I asked her not to made me have lots of flashbacks about how odd she was to me growing up. I had to run upstairs because I thought I was going to panic.

Everything I did was wrong. If I talked to my boyfriend, she would get annoyed and say that I needed to leave him alone. After cooking the entire Thanksgiving meal and sitting down for dinner, she would not let me speak once without talking over me. Everyone else would talk, and as SOON as I would say a word, she would just shake her head and loudly talk over me. We went a few places while there for the weekend, and each time, she would get annoyed with me about an hour before we were scheduled to leave and say we were about to go so I needed to be ready, and she would snap her fingers at me, clap at me, and pat her leg while yelling my name and saying "WE NEED TO GO!/YOU NEED TO BE READY!"

One night, I went to her room to chat with her. I didn't want to, really, but I felt like I should be nice/be a good daughter. She would ask me questions, and then go into diatribes about how wrong I was. I can't remember ever having an adult conversation with my mom. There is no "we disagree," there is just "you're wrong and a terrible person." She asked if my BFs dad has a lot of money (?) and I said that I have no clue because it's not my business. She then tries to ask a thousand other questions about his finances and I just shot them all down. She asked me when BF and I are getting engaged, I said I didn't know. She went on about how we just need to elope or go to a courthouse and can't expect money from her. I said we didn't expect anything, but that we would be having a wedding and have always planned to pay for it ourselves. She said nope, you should just go to the courthouse, you can't expect money from me. She asked how my job was, I said not great but I have a promising lead on a job in my desired field. She said I absolutely could not take it because it would not pay enough (no clue what the salary is and she didn't even let me explain the entire job). She asked about when we were having kids, I said not for a while because we're not financially ready. She implies that I am being selfish about having kids and to her specifically. She asks if I've thought about raising interracial kids (we're an interracial couple -- I knew this one was going to be bad) and I say yes and that I'm not worried because xyz, plus my childhood best friend is the same race my children will be and she has a great perspective on things and a great sense of identity. She rips apart my friend and her entire family and says super racist things. I was so deflated at the end of that conversation. I do not share information with her usually, and I tried to keep it very vague and positive when she asked me questions, but by the end of that I could clearly see that she was asking me questions so she could shoot down every single aspect of my life. If I express ANY opinion, it's wrong. If I say "it's warm in here," I'm wrong and how dare I. If I say I like something, she laughs at me and then gets angry. I started singing a Johnny Cash song that was on TV and she got annoyed with me for KNOWING the song. I was telling her a story and mentioned something about my friend that has a nanny (it was not a critical detail in the story) and she said that the person (that she does not know) does NOT have a nanny and yelled at me for "believing everything that people tell me" and then wouldn't speak to me. I literally cannot BE a person with thoughts and feelings without her getting angry.

My boyfriend and I are getting engaged in 3 days (after 5 years, nothing is a surprise, but I am very excited and happy! ) and I should be focusing on the happy parts of our pending engagement but I am just dreading her reaction. She has made me cry/almost have a panic attack at every event that I've had since high school. I'm not calling her first/until the next day because she does not deserve that, but I'm at a loss with how to deal with her. I know she will tell my entire family although I will specifically ask her to let me tell them, and that hurts but I can't do anything about it. As far as wedding planning, I know I have my boyfriend to back me up and I have no doubts about my ability to not let her take over the planning. But I feel so tired of fighting. I go to therapy once a week and I used the skills I learned in therapy (being upfront about the boundaries I need, repeating myself if she did not respect my boundaries, using direct language) but it just seems to make her laugh. If I am not just  robot/completely anticipating her needs, she laughs at me and then is angry at me. I feel like I'm making progress sometimes, but currently I just don't know what to do. I know boundaries take time, but I am just so conflicted about where our relationship should go. I think I just realized during our time together that she really does not like me or want me to be happy. Her behavior is getting worse and I fear losing all of the progress that I have made mentally/emotionally. I almost had another panic attack this week and I am having the feelings I used to have right before having a major one.

Has anyone had a mother/parent that just seems to hate them being happy/being autonomous? Also, with the physical boundaries, what is that called? Is that sexual abuse? So confused about so many things.

Thanks for reading!

[spring1413]

Hi all! I've written on the board once before about my mother's behavior regarding my upcoming engagement (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=210985.msg12323956#msg12323956) and I'm having a bit of trouble at the moment. This is SUPER long, I do apologize.

I had the worst Thanksgiving with my mother, and now my anxiety is through the roof.

I was diagnosed with panic disorder after having a series of panic attacks after college. I was on anti-depressants and anti-anxiety medication but I would go through these weird states where I would be totally unlike myself and do really destructive things, and I tried to put myself in a coma/get myself admitted to a hospital by taking xanax and clonopin in 2011. I was trying to get myself admitted to a hospital because I didn't want to live with my mom because of her emotional abuse and lack of physical boundaries, but they let her stay for the psych eval so I just pretended like it was an accident. I stopped taking medication a over year ago and have been doing great, with minimal anxiety, no panic attacks, and no depression. But now I feel like it's all coming back and I am struggling to get a hold on it.

At Thanksgiving, I felt like I was going to have a panic attack for the first time in a year. Actually, since last Thanksgiving where my mom was terrible and I was so wound up that I was vomiting and shaking. Thanksgiving consisted of my BF, his father, my mother, and I at his father's vacation home. I cooked Thanksgiving dinner.

My mother has zero physical boundaries. When I was younger, she would tell everyone details about me going through puberty. She would walk around naked, use the bathroom with the door open, and insist that I keep my door open when undressing. If I didn't she'd have a fit. Now that I don't live with her, I don't have to worry about those things, but she still has no boundaries. When I lived in a different state, she would come visit uninvited and insist on sleeping in the bed with me. I didn't (because I didn't feel comfortable with that) and she would be livid with me. I don't like hugs from her because she will hug me for way too long/not let me go and kiss my face in a way that makes me feel uncomfortable. When I saw her earlier this year, she put her hand in my front pocket and it was very inappropriate. I can't even describe it, but I knew in my gut it was not okay. At Thanksgiving, she forcefully pulled me by my hair to put my hair in a bun because she does not like my hair, and stood MAYBE an inch away from me at all times telling me that I was doing things wrong. She doesn't cook and has never cooked a Thanksgiving meal. If I went in the kitchen to do anything, she would follow me in and say "Nope, you need to do this" and tell me to do things in a panicky, loud way. I asked her to stop, she wouldn't stop. The more I asked, the more she did it, and she thought it was hilarious. She tried to get my boyfriend to do it, too, and he wouldn't play her game (she often is mean to me and tries to get him to side with her). That she was so micromanaging was infuriating enough, and her standing so close to me when I asked her not to made me have lots of flashbacks about how odd she was to me growing up. I had to run upstairs because I thought I was going to panic.

Everything I did was wrong. If I talked to my boyfriend, she would get annoyed and say that I needed to leave him alone. After cooking the entire Thanksgiving meal and sitting down for dinner, she would not let me speak once without talking over me. Everyone else would talk, and as SOON as I would say a word, she would just shake her head and loudly talk over me. We went a few places while there for the weekend, and each time, she would get annoyed with me about an hour before we were scheduled to leave and say we were about to go so I needed to be ready, and she would snap her fingers at me, clap at me, and pat her leg while yelling my name and saying "WE NEED TO GO!/YOU NEED TO BE READY!"

One night, I went to her room to chat with her. I didn't want to, really, but I felt like I should be nice/be a good daughter. She would ask me questions, and then go into diatribes about how wrong I was. I can't remember ever having an adult conversation with my mom. There is no "we disagree," there is just "you're wrong and a terrible person." She asked if my BFs dad has a lot of money (?) and I said that I have no clue because it's not my business. She then tries to ask a thousand other questions about his finances and I just shot them all down. She asked me when BF and I are getting engaged, I said I didn't know. She went on about how we just need to elope or go to a courthouse and can't expect money from her. I said we didn't expect anything, but that we would be having a wedding and have always planned to pay for it ourselves. She said nope, you should just go to the courthouse, you can't expect money from me. She asked how my job was, I said not great but I have a promising lead on a job in my desired field. She said I absolutely could not take it because it would not pay enough (no clue what the salary is and she didn't even let me explain the entire job). She asked about when we were having kids, I said not for a while because we're not financially ready. She implies that I am being selfish about having kids and to her specifically. She asks if I've thought about raising interracial kids (we're an interracial couple -- I knew this one was going to be bad) and I say yes and that I'm not worried because xyz, plus my childhood best friend is the same race my children will be and she has a great perspective on things and a great sense of identity. She rips apart my friend and her entire family and says super racist things. I was so deflated at the end of that conversation. I do not share information with her usually, and I tried to keep it very vague and positive when she asked me questions, but by the end of that I could clearly see that she was asking me questions so she could shoot down every single aspect of my life. If I express ANY opinion, it's wrong. If I say "it's warm in here," I'm wrong and how dare I. If I say I like something, she laughs at me and then gets angry. I started singing a Johnny Cash song that was on TV and she got annoyed with me for KNOWING the song. I was telling her a story and mentioned something about my friend that has a nanny (it was not a critical detail in the story) and she said that the person (that she does not know) does NOT have a nanny and yelled at me for "believing everything that people tell me" and then wouldn't speak to me. I literally cannot BE a person with thoughts and feelings without her getting angry.

My boyfriend and I are getting engaged in 3 days (after 5 years, nothing is a surprise, but I am very excited and happy! ) and I should be focusing on the happy parts of our pending engagement but I am just dreading her reaction. She has made me cry/almost have a panic attack at every event that I've had since high school. I'm not calling her first/until the next day because she does not deserve that, but I'm at a loss with how to deal with her. I know she will tell my entire family although I will specifically ask her to let me tell them, and that hurts but I can't do anything about it. As far as wedding planning, I know I have my boyfriend to back me up and I have no doubts about my ability to not let her take over the planning. But I feel so tired of fighting. I go to therapy once a week and I used the skills I learned in therapy (being upfront about the boundaries I need, repeating myself if she did not respect my boundaries, using direct language) but it just seems to make her laugh. If I am not just  robot/completely anticipating her needs, she laughs at me and then is angry at me. I feel like I'm making progress sometimes, but currently I just don't know what to do. I know boundaries take time, but I am just so conflicted about where our relationship should go. I think I just realized during our time together that she really does not like me or want me to be happy. Her behavior is getting worse and I fear losing all of the progress that I have made mentally/emotionally. I almost had another panic attack this week and I am having the feelings I used to have right before having a major one.

Has anyone had a mother/parent that just seems to hate them being happy/being autonomous? Also, with the physical boundaries, what is that called? Is that sexual abuse? So confused about so many things.

Thanks for reading!

[redroom]

I read your posts.  Putting her hand in your front pocket like that is horrifiingly creepy.  

You don't have to tell her about the engagement before you tell anyone else.  You don't owe her that.  If you ever need to rationalize it, just tell her that you assumed that she knew already.  Or tell your friends and relatives to not tell her, so that she thinks that she's getting told first.  Then, if she happens to find out after she calls your extended family to tell the news, simply state that you wanted to be the one to tell them.

Has your therapist advised going no contact, or very low contact?  Some people respond really well when you set up boundaries, and others just don't get it at all.  But boundaries are for you and your protection.  Normally, it's a good idea to be direct to people and talk things out, but with some people, all you can do distance yourself.  You've tried and tried, and she's not getting it.  

It sounds as though she's unable to pick up on social cues, even if her goal is to harm and manipulate others.  Some BPD'ers are charismatic, and few people see through it.  Based on what you say, your mom probably thinks that she's hilarious, that everyone loves her jokes (such as when she constantly puts you down and tries to get your bf to join in), and that she does such a great job of keeping up appearances that no one would guess that her life is what it really is.  

But... . That's not your problem!  You have your own life.  I read in your wedding post that were wondering if you could rebuild your relationship w/ her by giving her some tasks to help with the wedding (congrats, btw!).  Sadly, there's nothing to rebuild with her.  In her eyes, you're either directly where she wants you (under her control), or her enemy.  It's either black or white, one extreme or the other, and what you want (and need, and deserve) is a "normal" relationship where you can count on her but don't fully rely on her.  Ideally, she should be respoding to your boundaries and allowing you to grow, but she's not a regular, typical parent.  

If I were in your position, I would put some really severe limits on her role in your life.  Let her make her own holiday plans.  :)on't even mention the engagement or wedding to her.  If she has to find out from other family and friends, or if/when she gets the invite in the mail, let her deal with her emotions.  She's not going to change (unless she wants to), and there's really nothing that you can do on your end except use the boundaries to protect yourself.  

You don't even need to announce to her that you're paring down your contact with her, give her one last chance, or even do it gradually.  This is all about protecting yourself, not improving a relationship with her.  

P.S.  Congrats to you and your BF, not just for the engagement, but it seems that you're both doing pretty well for yourselves.  He's defending his thesis, and from your posts, it sounds as though you do have some really good boundaries set up (e.g. telling your mom that she has to drive herself if she wants to come to the defense) and you're still fighting!

The tl;dr version:  She won't change, no matter what you do.  You need to cut down on your contact with her, not to change her, but to protect yourself.  

[SomebodyThatIUsedtoKnow]

Parts of this I feel like I could've written, myself.  Although, my mom has never done any weird touching of me, she always walked around our house naked and would just walk freely into our rooms.  I had a lock on my door in one house and one day she just kicked the door open and it never locked again.

Ironically, I've got panic disorder, too.  I wonder how common that is in children of BPD sufferers?

As far as the, "You can't expect money from me."  Comment, my mom is famous for doing this and similar comments.  For instance, at my birthday, SHE called ME and told me she was having me a party.  I didn't ask for one and haven't had one in years.  It was a small, intimate family gathering.  uBPD mom had taken it upon herself to purchase some cheap decorations and decorate the house.  As I was sitting down to cake, she said, "Your brother said this was all so stupid.  But, I told him, you have to have a big show on your birthday.  I can't just hand you money like I can for him and your sister, you have to have a big production on your birthday."  At Christmas time, she insists that I "get mad" if she doesn't buy me a bunch of gifts.  It is honestly perplexing because I have never, ever gotten mad at anything I've ever received or didn't receive on Christmas.  It's like she is projecting her guilt onto me, which is what I suspect your mom was doing to you.  There she was in your future father-in-law's *vacation* home thinking, "I can't compete with this man, financially!"  So, because she felt inadequate in the money department, she was trying to pressure you into eloping.  That way, if you elope, she can say to people, "I wanted to give them a big wedding, but they just had to elope!"

I know how you feel about not being able to have opinions.  I've just learned to remain silent and nod and smile whenever she's discussing anything, even when I disagree.  Things can get nasty when you disagree with her or call her out on anything.  Last time we were over there, I was berated for not having enough control over my husband for allowing him to smoke in the driveway.

What you need to do is what I have done, create a healthy distance.  No more inviting her to the vacation home for a weekend.  That's just asking for punishment because you're closed in with her for days on end and can't get away.  Visit her at her home for a few hours every month or two, and the rest of the time limit communication to phone calls.  Definitely don't go alone, either.  It seems like your fiance has a head on his shoulders in regards to her treatment of you and he's wise to it.  That's good.  You need to establish boundaries, ASAP!  Especially before having kids.

[Deb]

Wow, I am sorry you are having panic attacks because of all of this. One suggestion I have, when you have time, is read the book "Controlling People." It may show you why she does what she does and some things you can do to help yourself. My MIL didn't want my husband and I to get married. She stopped us ine time with her ploys. So when we decided to get married, we didn't tell her until the night before! My  husband told her "You can come, or not, it's up to you, but we are getting married tomorrow." That was 31 years ago today!    (She told one of his sister's it wouldn't last.) And CONGRATS! on the engagement!

[Sitara]

I feel for you spring1413.

My mother has zero physical boundaries. When I was younger, she would tell everyone details about me going through puberty. She would walk around naked, use the bathroom with the door open,

My mom does this too.  She would comment about my body in a demeaning way and belittle any concerns I had about the changes I was going through like I was stupid.  She didn't make me keep the door open when I was changing, but she would just burst in without knocking while I was naked (the last time this happened I was home visiting and 21 years old).  She also has inappropriate boundaries with my husband, putting her hands in his pockets and making comments like he's her boyfriend.

I also grew up with the anything I do is wrong stigma.  It's a big part of the reason I'm now so stoic - any emotion I showed was ridiculed. 

My mom also has this hangup over money.  She's obsessed with having the most of it, and she'll buy herself super expensive gadgets costing thousands of dollars, but won't spend it on anyone else.  For example, she promised to buy me this book series she was into (I didn't ask her for it) but she made sure to tell me that she'd only buy the paperback for me, the hardcover was too expensive and she was buying those for herself.  She also once asked my husband and I if we would loan her money (basically everything we had in savings) because she needed to pay for something and couldn't liquidate the cash quickly enough.  She has saved a ton, her house was paid off, and my dad was making 3x as much money as me and my husband, and yet she was asking to borrow money from people who just bought a fixer-upper house who have a small child?  And at the time, I was completely willing to do it.

You need to establish boundaries, ASAP!  Especially before having kids.

I second this.  Having kids brings on a whole new ballgame.

[Bracken]

Hi Spring

I just read your post, and I really feel for you. 

Like a lot of people here, I too have dealt with constant disaffirmation and emotional abuse. But not the inappropriate physical closeness - (though my M talked about sex and private things inappropriately.) I am so sorry that you have to deal with that physical stuff too.

The last time I was in the same room with my mother, I had to stay about 10 feet from her. And I couldn't look her in the eye. She made me feel nauseous.

My advice: be as careful and self-protective as possible. I was very LC - maybe even NC - with M both times I got married - and she has lived far away - so it happened that she didn't go to either of the weddings. PHEW! Maybe that's not possible for you. But aim steadily in that direction. Because, things probably won't get better between you and your M. As you said, you have never had an adult conversation with her. It's not going to happen -- .

And try to get your fiancé to keep growing his understanding about you and your M. My H is such a kind, trusting personality - that for the first half of our marriage he really believed that the rift between me and my M could be overcome. So, we had two visits from my M in 20 years - and both were unbelievably horrible and destructive. My H did finally "get it". It might have helped if there was all this awareness about "BPD" back then.

So - take it slow - think of the long term - visualize the connections with your mother gradually softening, fading. Take care