ExuBPD/NPDw Not Allowing S9 to Get Better and PAS

[scraps66]

My case vitals:

Married 10/2004;

S9 born 10/2004;

Marriage counseling starts 4/2005 continues to 2008;

S6 born 5/2007;

File for divorce and separated 8/2008;

50/50 custody 4/2009;

Booted from house 1/2009;

EX new SO moves in 10/2009;

Move back in house 5/2011;

Divorced 2/2012.

Through all of this I have – I think – been able to fend off deep rooting PAS for no reason other than maintaining contact with my boys and having them 50% of the time.  S6 appears to be impervious to the PAS and transtions well between households.  But S9 is in some state of affects of PAS.   

S9 has been diagnosed with mild autism and first with ODD.  His mother continues to try to control his care and servcies at school. He has an IEP and ex is now trying to redcue the services he is givne at school.  Things like monitoring his behavior to eliminate his one-on-one paraprofessional saying that, “he needs more independence.”  Other things like not taking him to his summertime social skills classes that he is givne through school.  Now she is restricting school from sending home a daily behavior chart so he can get appropriate consequences when he misbeahves in school.  She claims, “S9 doesn’t like the charts coming home.”  Red flag.

My time with S9 can be a struggle.  He shows no interest in maintaining friendships with kids in my nieghborhood and has ostricized himself through his behavior with the three kids his age on my street.  He also has no interest in the things he likes to do at his mother’s, like riding his bike.  His position is, “I can’t ride my bike in your street,” or same with his skateboard, telling his mother, “Dad makes us ride the sakteboard in his driveway, just horrid.”  So it’s almost as if he is trying to no enjoy himself when with me, like he’s putting up these roadblocks to NOT enjoy himself. 

There are also other things, rather than improving, issues with anxiety seem to be worsening.  He can’t be left upstaris by himself.  He also will now not fall asleep without a light on.  This was never an issue in his younger years.  When we go on trips, if we try to get photos of the family, he doesn’t smile, or makes weird faces when pictures are being taken.

Another issue, bowel control.  When things were getting bad in the hosue before separation, he started having issues with bowel control.  After being told by me and her mother, to control her behavior around the kids, ex took S9 to the pediatrician and has his “bowel control” issue diagnosed as a “physical” problem of HIS.  She of course made this appt without me, thus eliminating the opportunity for me to describe exactly what was going on in the house at the time, ie. calling the police on dad at the drop of a hat, arguing willfully in front of the kids, demanding I tell her things like where I was going to live when booted form the house – in front of the kids, etc.  Demonstrated bad behavior in front of the kids.  This problem has never been fixed and infrequently S9 still has issues with bowel control.  But, I cannot remember the last time he has had a bowel movement at my house.  Almost like he only “wants to” at his mom’s. There have been other things that have come up that make me think this is being manipulated.  Based on ex’s initel with the pediatrician, S9 was put on a regiment of Miralax every day ot fix this alleged “physical” problem.  This was four years ago and the problem eventually got better, but not 100%.  Last year after a pediatrician visit that I did not attend, ex asked me about the Miralax and was I giving it to him, she said, “S9 told the pediatrician you were not giving him the Miralax.”  Red flags, again.

Since 2009, ex has used her now live in bf as the new dad.  She supports his relatioship with my S9 like she never supported my relationship. 

So now I am trying to get S9 to a counselor without involving ex.  I have a court order that says, dated 2010, my request to get S9 counsleing is “granted.”  I hope this is enough to permit the psychologists practice to allow me to get him into counsleing.  But I am still waiting.   

What makes combatting all of this more difificult is that I don’t get the payoff of total enjoyment of both children.  S6 is OK with me, S9 is a challenge.  He’s now reserved himself to only wanting to play Minecraft on the computer, or watch TV.  Shows no interest in other activities and it is difficult to spend weekends poking and prodding him to take up an interest in anythnig else.  I just don’t have the bond with him that I feel many of those on this board actually do.  The enmenshment form his mother was immediate and non-stop after his birth.  I should mention – this was a pure case of fabricated entrapment. 

[Matt]

So what steps can you take to find a counselor?

Is there more than one place you can try?

Where I live, it's as simple as calling a counselor and making an appointment.  You don't have to go into the legal stuff - just tell her what help your child needs.

[scraps66]

I’ve sent my custody order, and a special releif order which granted me permission to take S9 to a counselor.  This special relief order was dated 2010, and then ex stood in the way and would not sign a consent form.  The consent form was required by the office I’m trying to use now. 

My first attempt I did everything by the book, the psych office had outright required the consent forms which I unrealsitically expected ex to sign.  She didn’t, then controlled counseling by taking then S6 to an office, explaingin HER side of the story and in the end, S9 did not get the counseling he needed. 

This time I’m just submitting this order that clearly states S9 is to get counseling and hope that is enough.  I was told by this office that it is “the law’ that both parents have to consent.  I’m not sure because ex was successful, at a other office, in setting up an appt without my consent.

I will be heading back to court whn I find a new attorney, to make some modifications to our current custody order.  In the hands of a skilled attorney I would hope that this subject could be used to prove a distinct patternof ex’s behavior that is not in the best interests of S9.

I have not heard back yet from the psych office about setting up an appt based on the two orders I had sent.  If I get nowhere here, I will try another office. 

[Matt]

Is it possible that something you are saying is triggering the psych office to think there may be a problem - that maybe both parents don't agree?

Is there an honest way to tell less - just tell them what is needed and don't even hint that maybe the other parent wouldn't agree?

If this continues to be a problem, and Ex won't sign, I wonder if there is a motion you can file for immediate court action on that issue - maybe an ex parte hearing or something like that?

I think it's good that you're looking for the right attorney - that should help a lot.

[scraps66]

Yes, Matt, I may have triggered the psych office. I have explained that there was a high-conflict divorce that is having lasting effects.  This could be received as  ared flag, but I don't know how I can address the behavioral issues I am seeing without explaining that or I am myself looking for some level of validation or improvement in my relationship with S9.

[Matt]

Yes, Matt, I may have triggered the psych office. I have explained that there was a high-conflict divorce that is having lasting effects.  This could be received as  ared flag, but I don't know how I can address the behavioral issues I am seeing without explaining that or I am myself looking for some level of validation or improvement in my relationship with S9.

So either way you approach it, it might not work... .

When do you think you will have an attorney?

I can imagine the attorney stepping in to let the psych office know, "The court has ordered that S9 get the help he needs.  Here is the court order (attached).  Please comply so further legal action will not be needed.  If you do not intend to comply, please forward to me the name of your attorney so I can work out a solution."  Meaning, "If you don't help, things will become complicated for you."

I can imagine a conversation between your attorney and the psych office's attorney, in which their attorney agrees to tell them, "Just treat the kid."

[nevaeh]

Hi Scraps... .

I read your post and a few things stood out to me right away so I thought I would add some thoughts.  I'm sorry this is really long... .

I am married 18 years to uBPDh - we have 3 kids D16, S12 and S9.  I am seeking a divorce which H will be made aware of sometime in January.

My S12 seems to have many similar traits to your S9.  S12 has been a "high maintenance" child since he was born, really.  Things he has had issues with... .loud noises; aversion to certain fabrics/clothing; transitioning from one activity to another; not overly social with a very limited number of "close" friends; likes to spend hours playing video games/minecraft/computer; had the same bowel issues from age 14 months to current; has ADD (he takes strattera); had serious anger issues when he was younger but that has subsided now (I think his medicine helps); he has had sleep problems (including restless leg syndrome); he doesn't eat much; refusal/aversion to taking medication (this has improved in the past couple of years); diagnosed with depression and anxiety at age 8 although this has improved greatly; doesn't like to "play" outside; does not exhibit a lot of empathy and tends to bully his little brother; is a high ability student but when not on his medication struggles greatly with school; when he was younger he was unable to tolerate being outside of the home for long periods of time--he would get overstimulated easily which would cause him to exhibit bad/irrational behavior; he is very stubborn and wants to do things his "own" way; doesn't like to be told he is wrong.  The good... .he is very cautious and self-preservation is important to him; he is very intelligent and when he is interested in something he is able to "hyper-focus" and learn everything about it.  My son became obsessed with WWII when he was 6 and knew so many things about it that it was scary.  He also would build tanks and airplanes to scale out of legos with no pattern or instructions--just did it from his head.  He can do complex math in his head and sometimes blows me away with his abilities.  This is by no means an all-inclusive list but it gives you an idea of what I have dealt with for 12 years and I am guessing you are dealing with some of the same behaviors, particularly if your son is on the autism spectrum.

I had my son tested for Asperger's when he was 8.  If you don't know about AS, do a google search and read about it.  It is basically a form of high-functioning autism.  I can honestly say that dealing with my son has been one of the most challenging and difficult things I have ever dealt with in my life.  Add to this that his dad (uBPD) has had absolutely NO tolerance or patience for our son's "issues" so, needless to say, it has been an extremely challenging road.  The good thing about AS is that you can "teach" your child out of it, to some degree.  By the time my son was tested for AS he was just under the minimum numeric score indicating AS.  His therapist said that if we had tested him when he was 4 or 5, when he was at the height of his symptoms, he likely would have been on the spectrum.  I actually had my son tested for AS because I was desperate to be able to tell my H that there was a "legitimate" reason that our son was the way he was.  I seriously have felt like my H has hated our son since he was little because of his quirky and sometimes maddening behavior. 

I am lucky because in my situation I am not the pwBPD and I am the mom... .so when we separate S12 will stay with me.  S12 and I are also very close - I have tried very hard to always be the consistent loving force in his life to try and offset the stress his dad has caused him. 

The reason I am responding to your post is because it breaks my heart to read what you wrote.  You are obviously frustrated with your son's behavior and not knowing how your ex is "helping" him and not being there to know what is going on has to be so incredibly hard! 

I think you have the right idea in taking steps to get your son into therapy.  But... .I think you also need to "dig deep" into yourself and also realize that, to some extent, your son might not ever "fit" what you think is normal.  There is a book written by Curt and Shonda Schilling called "The Best Kind of Different" and it is a very good book that might help you come to some sort of peace within yourself that you need to appreciate your son for who he is, not who you think he should be or who you want him to be.  I also have a friend, Lise Pyles, who wrote a book called "Hitchhiking through Aspergers" that gives some good strategies on how to deal with some of the issues it sounds like you are facing.

I think the first thing you may need consider is the possibility that you might not ever have a close bond with your son - at least not in the way that you might expect or want.  However, that doesn't mean that you can't enjoy your son and vice versa... .you might just need to take a different approach.  My H is not good with our son at all.  When he is frustrated with him he swears at him, yells at him, calls him names, says he is lazy, tells him he is stupid because he doesn't listen or doesn't act like a normal kid. 

A boss that I had in a previous job had a son with autism - my boss was about 70 when I worked for him - a highly intelligent chemistry professor.  His son was about 25 and lived in a group home and lived a simple life.  I was working with this boss when my son was 4 through 7--when son was at his worst.  I remember a VERY profound conversation I was having with the boss - I believe I was stressing about son's behavior and H's anger with son's behavior.  He told me that he has one single regret in his life, that being that he wished he had known his son had autism when he was young (his son was not diagnosed with autism until he was 19).  Boss said that when his son was little he used to spank him and yell at him and he was sometimes just plain mean because he thought his son was being purposefully defiant and difficult.  Boss then got teary-eyed and told me that he wishes he could get those years back and be different with his son.  Boss is now very close to his son (as close as he can be, given that his son isn't capable of being close in the way he would have anticipated).  That conversation has stuck with me all of this time and has made me work that much harder to understand my son and try to be the mom he needs me to be instead of me wanting him to be the son I wanted him to be.  I don't know if that makes sense, but I would challenge you to think about that.

All of this being said and not knowing how your ex is with your son - do they have a good relationship and is she nice to him/patient with him?  Does she have a legitimate interest in helping him with the issues related to his autism or is she in denial that he has any issues (it sounds like this might be a bit of the case).  If you think that she is preventing your son from trying to work through all of this then maybe it would be good to get your lawyer involved. 

It sounds like you have some issues surrounding visitation.  If your son has problems transitioning (my son had horrible issues with that), then the behavior you are describing seems to be in line with that.  It seems to me that part of what you might want to look at if you get a counselor for your son is also to get some "help" for yourself to figure out how to make that transition easier.  I know you don't like that he is on the computer too much, but maybe if your son know that when he goes to dad's house he gets to play a cool game (maybe you go shopping with him to get one that he likes) then he might be more excited about it.  If you try and make the environment more conducive to what you know he likes to do, and you are willing to let him "run the show" for a while, so to speak, then it might be easier for you to start introducing some new activities to do and he won't be as hesitant because he has learned that it's fun to go to dad's house.  Try not to criticize or correct him or tell him that he should be doing things that normal kids do.  If he doesn't want to play with the neighbor kids that's OK!  If you try and "force" him to do that he will be extremely stressed out and uncomfortable and while you might think he will eventually get over it, it actually might have the opposite effect.  My son went for about 2 years where he didn't have any friends over and was never invited to anyone's house.  It was really hard for me to see that, but son seemed OK with it and he didn't seem to mind at all.  I would gently quiz him about it to see if maybe it was bothering him but he was afraid to talk about it, but it really seemed ok with him so I let it go.  In the past 3 years, I have seen him "blossom" and now he has friends at school, occasionally has a friend over to spend the night, and goes to school events like basketball games, etc.  He is also a very athletic kid, and would be good at whatever sport he wanted to do.  Much to my chagrin, he never tried baseball or basketball and only played football for a couple of years (in 5th and 6th grade).  He loves soccer and that is the only sport he plays but I support him 100% in the one thing he does enjoy and I don't push him to do other sports even though I know he would be amazing at any of them. 

Regarding the bowel issues, my son started "holding in" when he was about 14 months old.  We took him to the doctor and literally his entire intestinal track was "full".  He started on Miralax at that time and we eventually got him to where he would go about once every 2-3 days.  This is something we have always dealt with.  There have been 10 day stretches of time where he hasn't had a BM.  There have been times where he has sat on the toilet trying to go for literally 3-4 hours.  You might want to look at some nutritional things to aid with that as well.  I give my son a magnesium supplement which is supposed to help restless leg syndrome and also helps with bowel issues.  He still doesn't go more than once every 3-4 days but he is old enough now that I just rely on him to tell me if he is having serious issues with it to where he has stomachaches, etc.  My son only will have  BM at home.  He won't do it anywhere else.  I know you are concerned about that, but it doesn't necessarily "mean" anything and it is likely not even a conscious "decision" your son is making to not go at your house.

I hope I'm not coming across as lecturing you... .that really isn't my intent at all.  I know from personal experience that having a child who is on the spectrum is so incredibly challenging.  Especially when you have other kids and they are "normal".  My D16 and S9 are very similar personalities - they are both easy-going, social, people-pleasers, etc.  They are extremely easy to parent.  I know in the early years of my son's childhood I did a lot of wondering "what did I do WRONG?"  How can I have two kids who are almost perfect in every way and then I have this other kid who does nothing but stress me out and challenge me on every single thing?  It is a tough, tough road and I have really tried hard to figure out how to change my approach and line of thinking so that I am doing what works best for my son.  The good thing is that I am a little further down the road than you are (age-wise) and am seeing that my son really is turning out pretty good!  He still plays a lot of video games (way more than I would like) and he still doesn't like to be outside except when he's playing soccer.  But, he is really well-spoken, gets excellent grades, and even had a little girlfriend a few months ago (they broke up, sadly   ).  He is very interested in computers and wants to learn how to build his own gaming computer and learn how to write video game code.  Building the computer is to be his project for 2014.  So, I'm here to tell you that it does get better.

I wish you all the best and hope that you are able to work with your ex to do what is best for your son! 

Take care.

www.amazon.com/The-Best-Kind-Different-Aspergers/dp/0061986844

www.amazon.com/Hitchhiking-through-Asperger-Syndrome-Pyles/dp/1853029378/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1387209384&sr=1-1&keywords=hitchhiking+through+asperger

[scraps66]

Did hear back from the psychologist's office and they will not schedule with consent from both parents.  What I think I will do is send ex an e-mail explain what I plan on doing, then see what she does.  Coincident with my phone conversation with the psych office was a call from school from the principal, S9 was having a bad day with   

Matt, I too imagine what you describe and your perspective is astute as ever.  I have had the "get a new attorney" monkey on my back since October after having yet another attorney go bad.  So, though I have a number of issues in need of being addressed, some that involve $$ to me like support corrections, I still see getting yet another attorney as drudgery.  Guess I'm a bit gun shy right now but want to do the right thing and go through the effort of getting the right attorney.   

nevaeh, thank you for taking the time put your experience into words.  Much of what you write is what I would have written if I took more time.  The parts about "me" and my time with S9 are accurate.  Some weekends when I drop them at school I reflect and get the feeling that I really didn't "enjoy" S9's company as much as I should.  I do also get the feeling of time gone by, and the feeling that I could, in the future, have regrets about not being as understanding as I could have been in the moment.  Without mentioning, you caught onto what I didn't write but wanted to, I'm looking for a therapist, not only for S9, but for me, to help me with my relationship with him.  The digging deep part is tough for me, I feel like I've always got something eating at me.  In the time since I've moved back into the marital residence, I've not gotten a total sense of normalcy since ex is always bending the rules of the custody order somehow.  I'm hoping if I pout my energies into having S9 see a therapist that I can reap some of the satisfaction in seeing him grow.       

In terms of ex as the mother, I don't know that she is all the time patient with S9 as she too I diagnosed with ADHD, but she is always very forgiving and rationalizes his bad behaviors.  She likes to be his friend as opposed to his parent.  The whole bowel control "issue," she fabricated that into a "physical" problem to avoid any responsibility on herself in creating his anxiety that was presenting itself as his "bowel control" issue.  When I finally confronted the pediatrician, she understood, but recognized that she had already taken ex's "story" at face value and would not save face by entertaining what I was presenting as factual data.  So it was "his" physical problem and had nothing to do with the toxic environment ex was creating around him. 

I am ok with my relationship with S9 not being what I think it should be.  I knew that I was taking the risk of sacrificing that when I filed for divorce and the signs of PAS at that time could grow to something even more challenging.  The have.  Ex has created a new dad fro S9, her boyfriend, a "stay at home" boyfriend who likes video games.  All in all, it could be worse, he is very good with S9 and his brother, not a great role model, but not an abuser either.  I can't control that, so I accept it for what it is.  He does not get the treatment I had gotten or still get from ex, but that's OK.  Again, can't control that.

The diagnosis of asberger's was mentioned.  This is what ex thought he would be diagnosed.  A pity that her perspective is as long as he's diagnosed what she says he should be, fine.  Very bright, gets great grades without trying hard.  But the behavioral piece, he is well behind his classmates with the socialization piece.  So needs work.

I will look at the books.

Thanks again for all the input.

     

[broken3]

Scraps,

Just take him to a different therapist. Don't mention the conflict with the ex.

They do not need 2 party consent.

Advise the therapist of the core issues.

If the ex tries to block in court. No judge will scold you for getting your child help.

On the contrary. It will help you.

[NorthernGirl]

Hi Scraps. I agree with the advice to take S9 to another therapist.

SS19 has development delays but no official diagnosis, such as autism or aspergers, but DH has been told he has symptoms that would put him on the autistic scale. He has comprehension issues (struggles to read and understand what he's read) and anxiety. His UBPD mom tried hard to block him from seeing a T, then when it became clear it was going to happen demanded that she take him to the first appointment. She never went again but without realizing it, her focus on explaining how her "all bad" son was a bully and had ruined SS19's life made the T realize something was up with UBPD. And then a year later when the T recommended something that his mom disagreed with and she tried to get him pulled out of therapy, there was enough documentation that she couldn't do it without standing in front of a judge and explaining. I'm guessing her lawyer advised against that, and so she dropped it.

Since I became involved with DH (+ 7 years), I have seen his ex (UBPD) do a lot of things that were the opposite of helping him. She has called him "mentally retarded" and advised teachers, lawyers, support workers, etc. of her belief. She continues to send emails to DH saying that he needs to stop pushing SS19 to do things because he's incapable. She pulled SS19 from school (without DH's permission) when he was 13 and pretended to home school him. DH had to fight to get him back to school, get him counselling and get 50/50.

I have no doubt she is very afraid for SS19. She tried to get SS19 to hate his dad, SS23 and me, but then we think she realized she couldn't cope with dealing with SS19 all the time. So instead she sent SS19 to live with us almost full time. She ranted about how he couldn't possibly walk across a busy street to take a bus and then when SS19 easily did it from our place, a week later she sent him on his own to figure out a bus from her place, where he had to cross the same busy street.

Looking back now I can see that SS19 would not be where he is today without the legal battles DH fought and the constant support we gave SS19. He is now healthy and happy, trying new things and is pushing hard to be independent.

So hang in there! Do what you can to help! 

[livednlearned]

Another approach:

Find a therapist who will hear you out about the issues your son is struggling with. Let them know you have a court order that gives you sole permission to have him be in therapy. Offer to sign a waiver that the clinic and the therapist will not be subpoenaed. This is their concern -- that they will be taken to court.

Ask to talk to someone who handles admin at the office and explain your situation and tell them it will cost you another couple of thousand dollars to get the same document. The court has ordered for your son to get counseling. Your ex will not sign a consent form, but the court overruled her and saw need for counseling.

[scraps66]

Thanks all.  I have a different office in mind and a therapist school has recommended. I'm calling tomorrow.

[Matt]

Thanks all.  I have a different office in mind and a therapist school has recommended. I'm calling tomorrow.

Using a therapist who was recommended by the school is a really good idea.  That way the other party can't say you looked for somebody to take your side.

[scraps66]

it's gotten to this, the principal called me two days ago about S9, he would not complete his math work and was sent to her office.  He would eventually "punch" her hand.  We have talked about consequences and that it is important for consequences to come as soon after incidents as possible.  We at one time had a daily report that came home.  Well, ex stopped tha - without conferring with  me - and just stopped school from sending home the report saying, "S9 doesn't like the report coming home every day."  So now school won't send the report home because they says, "it'll only be of value if both parents are on the same page."

The principal said to me two days agao, "I'm not going to call Ms. exScraps about this incident, I think you Mr. Scraps have a better handle on this.  As a parent, if I were you, I would look S9 in the yee, let him know you heard what happened, and let him know that his behavior is unacceptable."

Vent.