Friends first? Still won't work.

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

    Curious as to how usual/unusual it is for a r/s to start after the non & the pwBPD have known each other as friends for quite a long time. I was a friend for SEVEN WHOLE YEARS, and hadn't really picked up any   . I'm guessing it's because the friendship hadn't been intimate, therefore she wasn't triggered by it.

   I'd seen her angry and arguing with her ex, but I knew he wasn't the nicest guy around and I put it down to her reacting to the way he treated/spoke to her. When our r/s was in it's early idolization phase, she was obviously as sweet as an angel, which seemed to confirm what I'd thought.

   Now I'm assuming it was really the other way around, and the way he treated/spoke to her was the result of her raging/lying/cheating during the course of their r/s.

[free-n-clear]

    Curious as to how usual/unusual it is for a r/s to start after the non & the pwBPD have known each other as friends for quite a long time. I was a friend for SEVEN WHOLE YEARS, and hadn't really picked up any   . I'm guessing it's because the friendship hadn't been intimate, therefore she wasn't triggered by it.

   I'd seen her angry and arguing with her ex, but I knew he wasn't the nicest guy around and I put it down to her reacting to the way he treated/spoke to her. When our r/s was in it's early idolization phase, she was obviously as sweet as an angel, which seemed to confirm what I'd thought.

   Now I'm assuming it was really the other way around, and the way he treated/spoke to her was the result of her raging/lying/cheating during the course of their r/s.

[santa]

   Curious as to how usual/unusual it is for a r/s to start after the non & the pwBPD have known each other as friends for quite a long time. I was a friend for SEVEN WHOLE YEARS, and hadn't really picked up any   . I'm guessing it's because the friendship hadn't been intimate, therefore she wasn't triggered by it.

   I'd seen her angry and arguing with her ex, but I knew he wasn't the nicest guy around and I put it down to her reacting to the way he treated/spoke to her. When our r/s was in it's early idolization phase, she was obviously as sweet as an angel, which seemed to confirm what I'd thought.

   Now I'm assuming it was really the other way around, and the way he treated/spoke to her was the result of her raging/lying/cheating during the course of their r/s.

Seems to me you've got it pretty much figured out.

[free-n-clear]

Seems to me you've got it pretty much figured out.

Hence the title. Just thought it might draw out some interesting stories that might help others.

[Perfidy]

I know I treated her like a princess early on. Her disgusting behavior had a profound impact on her future treatment. Some of the rhetoric went like this. I would ask her these things and say these things.

"Why are you talking down to me?"

":)o you talk to anyone else like you're talking to me?"

"Why are you calling me names?"

"I don't disagree with what you're saying but I disagree with how you're saying it."

"I don't even have my own anger and I don't want yours."

"Can you find a better way to communicate?"

"There's a better way."

These are words that I have used over and over and over. Only in the BPD relationship. No other relationship has been like this. Remarkable.

[Perfidy]

I had known her for about a year before we got together. Friendly but not real close. Took about a month of living with her to realize she was indeed seriously disordered. Man, I wanted to end it right away. Seven plus years. Wow

[free-n-clear]

I know I treated her like a princess early on.

  So was this during a pre-r/s friendship, or in the early days of the r/s?

I'd been a fairly close - though not intimate - friend during much of her previous relationship,  I knew her then-partner before they got together, and even shared a house with them for a while. How she managed to keep most of the traits hidden is beyond me. I was working long hours at the time, maybe she saved it all up for when I wasn't around. Maybe she already had her eye on me as his replacement.

   Sorry about my slow typing! We crossed over there.

[Mutt]

   Now I'm assuming it was really the other way around, and the way he treated/spoke to her was the result of her raging/lying/cheating during the course of their r/s.

Yup. I've been caught in this. Friends/family don't know the pre-text and I've been frustrated and got upset. I look like the crazy one when she knows to dial down her demeanor and make me look bad.

[Mutt]

I know I treated her like a princess early on. Her disgusting behavior had a profound impact on her future treatment. Some of the rhetoric went like this. I would ask her these things and say these things.

"Why are you talking down to me?"

":)o you talk to anyone else like you're talking to me?"

"Why are you calling me names?"

"I don't disagree with what you're saying but I disagree with how you're saying it."

"I don't even have my own anger and I don't want yours."

"Can you find a better way to communicate?"

"There's a better way."

These are words that I have used over and over and over. Only in the BPD relationship. No other relationship has been like this. Remarkable.

You've had that rethoric because she's abusive.

[Ironmanrises]

I was friends with my exUBPDgf for years before the relationship started. Her behavior was exhibited in that time period too. It would show itself in mood swings(as she described them), described her "thoughts all over the place", comments "when I get like this, I would understand if you distance yourself from me"(this very line of hers still haunts me to this day)  , she would lash out at me on my online social media literally out of left field, then the push/pull behavior started as she began to like me and vice versa. Keep in mind, we were still just friends in that stage. As soon as she felt herself liking me in that way, she began to push away. She exhibited this online via facebook by literally, and I mean ___ing literally going through MONTHS worth of status updates of mine/pictures I posted and comments of hers on those very things and DELETING every single comment of hers and UNLIKING every single thing she liked on my facebook. I am not talking about a few unlikes and comments. I am referring to multiple DOZENS. I remember asking her as I noticed it back then "Why did you unlike and delete so many things?", her reply "I tend to get like that, and that is what I do." At that point(AGAIN we were still just friends), I was horrified/puzzled and still had no ___ing idea what the origin of that was. So being friends with her for years, before the relationship started MADE NO DIFFERENCE. After her discarding me TWICE, I have not heard from her directly now in 5+ months. She was someone when she was my friend, that spoke to me EVERY F*CKING DAY for years. And now? Gone. Just gone.

[free-n-clear]

  Wow, Ironman. I mean, like, WOW! Here I was wondering how I didn't see any    . That's the seductive power they have, I guess. There's none so blind as those who will not see. I think my perspective was distorted by the knowledge of what an arsehole her ex was - even before he met her. But she'd certainly never done any weird stuff like that! 

   

[Octoberfest]

I had known her for about a year before we got together. Friendly but not real close. Took about a month of living with her to realize she was indeed seriously disordered. Man, I wanted to end it right away. Seven plus years. Wow

If it is any consolation, I knew within a month of knowing/being with (because the two were synonymous.  I became involved with my BPDex the day I met her) my BPDex that this was not a girl I wanted to end up with or marry... .This conclusion having been reached even though she was the FIRST girl I had ever dated.  I didn't even have things to compare her to, and I knew I couldn't end up with her.

I stuck it out, for 8 more months, through many, many, many instances of cheating.  I have to ask "Why" as well, and the only answer I can come up with as to why I didn't leave sooner is that, "I wasn't ready".

'

[Ironmanrises]

Free,

I only saw those in a clear perspective after she left me in round 1 and I began to read through 16,000+ texts on my old android phone(it had a number tracker on it and she was a heavy texter). Her mood swings, her constant reference to "my thoughts are all over the place", to that haunting line about distancing yourself are all littered throughout. Plus a lot of lashing out at me for no apparent reason. Once she started to like me, that turned the mentioned above into a bigger maelstrom, mixed in with I like you, I don't like you like that, I like you, I don't like you like that, etc. The only inkling I had at the time to any possible disorder was when a close friend(after me describing her behavior during friendship) mentioned Bipolar; but even then, i didn't look into it. I only started to investigate when she RAGED at me at discard of round 1 and the accompanying aftermath. Then I ran across BPD and it was game over. And here I am. Red flags I ignored? Enough to stretch from here to the Moon.

[MrFox]

I knew my ex for 2 years before we got together.  She love bombed me the whole time, which is probably one of the reasons that I let so many of the red flags go.  It was those same red flags that kept from actually getting in a relationship with her.  She disappeared from my life for a few months and when she came back she had honestly seemed to have calmed down a bit.  Wrong, she just changed her tactics.  She ramped up the recycling and I fell for it hook, line, and sinker.

[Ironmanrises]

Mrfox,

Mine disappeared for a few months too during friendship phase. She had said "our friendship was toxic". Her exact f¥cking words. She was the toxic one but made it seem as if it was me. When she returned from that, shortly afterwards was when she proclaimed that she really liked me like that the entire time. So technically i have been discarded 3 times if you include friendship psuedo discard.

[arn131arn]

I worked with my ex for a few years.  Now that I look at it... .she was the total Waif, super feminine, sexy, but always something about her where she needed to be helped, ya know?  She set me up with some of her friends, I even dated one of them; but I always really like my ex to tell you the truth.

I told her that once when we were 23 years old at a bar.  

We have been together since three weeks ago.

Friends before or not, the evil and rage that I have seen from her in the past 14 years would be an eye-opener for those she REALLY considers friends (does that make sense?) who knows

[letmeout]

Sneaky little buggars aren't they?

I have a friend who recently confessed that he has BPD! I suspected it because I was married to a BPD, but this guy hides his really well.  He said years of therapy has taught him how to handle it, but he can't have intimate relationships because he can not control it with a lover. He hasn't dated for 18 years, which is pretty darn commendable of him (and saves other people from his damage).

Since he has told me though, he is letting his real personality come through. I can not bear to see another person acting out with their BPD traits. This guy has abandonment issues so big that I feel bad about dumping him. I know for sure that I will never be his lover now, because I know what would happen to me and I am never ever going down that road again.

[MrConfused]

Oui, friends first doesn't work either. As soon as they feel you're getting too close they will push you away... .& then drag you back in later.

[Bananas]

I was friends/coworkers with my ex for about a year before we started dating.  I only noticed the red flags after we broke up.  Looking back he really wasn't that great of a friend but seemed to know when to do the right thing at just the right time to make it seem that way.  But if you would have asked me back then, I would have said he was my best friend.  

We still work together and the behavior continues, it is just on a co-worker level though. Once you become a trigger to them nothing "works" unless they get serious help and even then I am not sure.  I chased that rainbow of wanting to get my "friend" back, there is no going back.  I have just learned how to cope with it and not let it affect me.  

[MrConfused]

How long did you date for? I saw lots of red flags the entire time but I ignored them. Does he blank you at work now?

[Waifed]

3 years friends at work and 3 year r/s. No red flags before we dated. Looking back she subtlety tried to seduce me with very slight comments/actions. Looking back at IM's just prior to us getting together the silent treatment / passive aggressiveness is now obvious. The sex was so good though!   It caused me to overlook what I thought was her just being immature.

[MrConfused]

Silent treatment/passive aggressiveness... I hated that :P You'd know you'd done something wrong (somehow?) but you couldn't do anything about it other than just ignore them... .

[Waifed]

Silent treatment/passive aggressiveness... I hated that :P You'd know you'd done something wrong (somehow?) but you couldn't do anything about it other than just ignore them... .

so true.

[leftbehind]

I was friends/aquaintances with mine 3 and a half years before we dated.  We had 6 months of idealized heaven, and then two months of red flags laced with fun & intimacy, but the devaluation had already begun.  From then on it was only a matter of time until the inevitable discard.

[patientandclear]

I'd known my ex for 13 years before we started dating -- worked together for two years, then he left, came back 9 years later, worked at the office again for two more years, then he decided to leave (starting to see a pattern here?  ), and as he was leaving, he asked me out.

We really liked each other & I thought we knew each other well.  It made the immediate intensity more plausible and probably made me overlook that red flag.

Turned out he'd dated several woman in the same office but exercising some magic elixir combining shame at being abandoned with a feeling of specialness at having been chosen in the first place, he was able to have none of them talk about it at work!  So I had no idea, and he never filled me in.

[Bananas]

How long did you date for? I saw lots of red flags the entire time but I ignored them. Does he blank you at work now?

We dated for 2 years.  The relationship now has the same dynamics just on a work only level.  Lots of passive agresssive behavior, push pull, lying, you name it, all in the guise of "work".  Like putting a 3 year old in a position of power.  He must always feel like he is in control.  It gets exhausting for me at times but it is a fine line I have to walk as he has our boss convinced he is God and I need to keep my job.  Understanding where the behavior comes from helps me cope.

We really liked each other & I thought we knew each other well.  It made the immediate intensity more plausible and probably made me overlook that red flag.

Turned out he'd dated several woman in the same office but exercising some magic elixir combining shame at being abandoned with a feeling of specialness at having been chosen in the first place, he was able to have none of them talk about it at work!  So I had no idea, and he never filled me in.

Exactly.  I am just now finding out how many "mes" there are in the office.   

 

[free-n-clear]

I like you, I don't like you like that, I like you, I don't like you like that, etc.

   Another similarity! My xgf would often say "I love you... . in a good way", whatever the hell that was supposed to mean. In truth, she 'loved' me in a worse way than anyone else ever has; raging, lying, cheating, using, all that 'good' stuff.

[santa]

If we could be friends, we'd still be together.

[Pretty Woman]

Santa,

  That was the point I made to my ex as she was dumping me to "see other people".

Here she wanted to see other people because we are "too different" but I am a beautiful, loving person she is very attracted to.

?

So she says, No, No this is a good thing! You are my BEST FRIEND! I love you very, very much and I'm not going anywhere.

Fast forward a week of me trying to rationalize with her (like I hadn't learned yet that this is impossible) how she was dumping me like this, she completely discarded me, changed all her contact info and moved on to the replacement.

Yeah, this is the type of friend every girl needs!

[free-n-clear]

Fast forward a week of me trying to rationalize with her (like I hadn't learned yet that this is impossible)

 We must all be a little slow, I think.    Lost count of how many times I tried to explain things or have a calm, rational discussion with my ex. I think it's called pissing into the wind.

[Perfidy]

I tend to listen to people closely. If you hear some one say "I want to be your friend." It's not the same as " I will be your friend'.

Ever see that movie where the aliens are slaughtering the earthlings and they tell people "I'm your friend!" And then they shoot them with the laser gun and blast them into pieces?

[Pretty Woman]

Perfidy,

  EXCELLENT example.

Another one is the Trojan Horse being wheeled into Troy as a "gift" and the Greeks bust out of it attacking.


Beware of any and all "reconciliatons" with a borderline.

[MrConfused]

If you hear some one say "I want to be your friend." It's not the same as " I will be your friend'.

Very true... . it's a way of easing a guilty conscience. They're rarely prepared to put in the actual work of being a friend.