Struggling with the decision

[Free2Bee]

I'm a 43yo lesbian in a relationship with a 37yo upwBPD. We met on an online dating service and we've been seeing each other for over three months. We live in different cities and typically spend weekends together.

After the first month of bliss, it's been rocky. I've noticed a pattern: most of her 'rages' follow periods of closeness and intimacy. By now, I can almost predict them like clockwork. New Year's was wonderful - she was so happy and content and loving; we had a great day. I had a feeling the day after would be really bad and I was right.

The day after New Years, she arrived at my apartment in a 'mood.' I tried to talk her through it, but she baited me into a 'no-win' conversation, then stormed out in a rage. She packed most of her stuff and took it with her and we've been NC since then. As she was leaving, I asked her if she was ending our relationship and she refused to answer - I now understand  this is quite common. :-(

This silence is a new thing in our relationship. It's unnerving, but I'm grateful for the 'space' to think about the situation and rally support from my friends. One friend who had been in a relationship with a BPD suggested I look up BPD on the Internet and I was floored. My gf meets every single criteria! She's definitely very high functioning, but the parallels were eerie.

Since then, I've read a tonne of stuff on the 'net, gone much of the material provided on this site and I'm nearly finished with a book - Randi Kreger's 'Essential Family Guide to BPD'.

I've learnt so much in a short time and I'm feeling sad and a bit overwhelmed. I'm starting to move toward a decision making process, since I'm fairly certain that this NC won't last forever. She's going to get in touch with me eventually, I think. I need to have some idea of what I want to do and how I want to move forward.

I'm feeling a bit conflicted because she has some of my belongings - the main one being a digital camera. I was thinking about it today and looked up possibilities for a replacement. Turns out, I can get a nicer camera on sale for about $90. So if I want to maintain this current NC, I can 'let the camera go' too. Right now, that's the only reason I would have to contact her, unless I decide on a reconciliation.

I have many other thoughts - especially regarding the red flags that I ignored as I leapt into this relationship, absolutely certain that my intuition wouldn't lead me wrong. :-( But right now, I'm absorbed in trying to come to a decision - do I stay or go?

I'm wondering, for people on this board who are close to a decision, what are the key factors driving your thought process? What types of questions should I be asking myself? It's a very new relationship - given that I don't have kids or (thank God) a marriage to contend with, should I just bail?

I appreciate all comments and thoughts. This board has been my saving grace. I'm so grateful for the stories you've shared - it's been reassuring and affirming to find that so many others are going through the same struggles and heartbreak that I am... .

Thank you,

Kai

[maxsterling]

I can only tell you what I would do if it was me.  Your relationship is just a few months old.  You don't live together.  She has initiated NC.  Your personal belongings are replaceable. 

From my personal experience, I'd remain NC as long as she does.  And if and when she contacts you, be prepared to set boundaries at that time.  I'm talking about criteria for which you will take her back.  And if she rages - consider that a sign it will never work out.

I wish I had set boundaries like that the first time she flipped out on me.  If I had, I would either have a better relationship now, or things would have ended.  Instead I am faced with trying to set some basic boundaries now (such as I will not talk about marriage or having a child with her as long as she is regularly telling me she wants to kill herself) and I know the boundary setting process could be really, really, ugly.

[HoldingAHurricane]

I wish I had asked myself what wounds I was carrying that allowed me to accept and continue investing a relationship with an emotionally immature, unstable, and at times abusive person.

BPD is a life-long condition, it takes enormous amounts of effort and change on both sides to make a relationship work, and the pain and suffering will be constant and plenty.

[karma_gal]

I wish I had asked myself what wounds I was carrying that allowed me to accept and continue investing a relationship with an emotionally immature, unstable, and at times abusive person.

BPD is a life-long condition, it takes enormous amounts of effort and change on both sides to make a relationship work, and the pain and suffering will be constant and plenty.

This a million times over, especially the part about the pain and suffering will be constant and plenty.  God is that an understatement! 

As the others have said, being that the relationship is still somewhat new, lacks many of the long-term investment issues some of us have to contend with -- i.e. being married with kids and intermingled finances -- as much as it sucks, you would probably be better off leaving now.  Read through the archived posts and you will see that the taking off/silent treatment is used frequently and these relationships usually involve many, many "recycles" and this becomes a way of life.  Each time it happens it rips out another piece of your soul, until finally you are left a shell of what you were before it all began.  It changes the way you think, about yourself and other people and life, and easily causes one to become cynical and jaded.  Getting out after years is so incredibly difficult, and I don't think you will find one of us who would say we are glad we stayed to play the game. 

Add in the rages, the lying, the projections, the gaslighting, and living with a partner with BPD makes for a very miserable, nearly impossible existence.  You will likely be to blame for every single thing that happens, you will likely find yourself stuck in double-bind situations where no matter what decision you make it's the wrong one.  You will likely have to bear witness to suicide threats and attempts if that is the manipulation trick of the moment that she thinks will work to avoid having to explain why she did X.  You will cry lots of tears, by yourself, because she will never be capable of being a true partner.  You will wake up one day and have no clue who the hell you are or how you got where you are.  The abuse these folks dish out is often insidious, slowly tearing you apart, yet they can flip on a dime and instantly dish out abuse that no one deserves. 

At the end of the day, if you have an "out," take it.  Save yourself and move on to someone healthy who is capable of loving you like a real adult should, capable of being a true partner, and who doesn't make it their life's work to tear you apart piece by piece.  Seriously, let her go and save yourself. 

[willtimeheal]

I wish I had asked myself what wounds I was carrying that allowed me to accept and continue investing a relationship with an emotionally immature, unstable, and at times abusive person.

BPD is a life-long condition, it takes enormous amounts of effort and change on both sides to make a relationship work, and the pain and suffering will be constant and plenty.

This a million times over, especially the part about the pain and suffering will be constant and plenty.  God is that an understatement!  

As the others have said, being that the relationship is still somewhat new, lacks many of the long-term investment issues some of us have to contend with -- i.e. being married with kids and intermingled finances -- as much as it sucks, you would probably be better off leaving now.  Read through the archived posts and you will see that the taking off/silent treatment is used frequently and these relationships usually involve many, many "recycles" and this becomes a way of life.  Each time it happens it rips out another piece of your soul, until finally you are left a shell of what you were before it all began.  It changes the way you think, about yourself and other people and life, and easily causes one to become cynical and jaded.  Getting out after years is so incredibly difficult, and I don't think you will find one of us who would say we are glad we stayed to play the game.  

Add in the rages, the lying, the projections, the gaslighting, and living with a partner with BPD makes for a very miserable, nearly impossible existence.  You will likely be to blame for every single thing that happens, you will likely find yourself stuck in double-bind situations where no matter what decision you make it's the wrong one.  You will likely have to bear witness to suicide threats and attempts if that is the manipulation trick of the moment that she thinks will work to avoid having to explain why she did X.  You will cry lots of tears, by yourself, because she will never be capable of being a true partner.  You will wake up one day and have no clue who the hell you are or how you got where you are.  The abuse these folks dish out is often insidious, slowly tearing you apart, yet they can flip on a dime and instantly dish out abuse that no one deserves.  

At the end of the day, if you have an "out," take it.  Save yourself and move on to someone healthy who is capable of loving you like a real adult should, capable of being a true partner, and who doesn't make it their life's work to tear you apart piece by piece.  Seriously, let her go and save yourself.  

Well said karma_gal

Kai... . RUN and don't look back.

[Seneca]

run away. far and fast. some of us have been feeling like you feel RIGHT NOW - confused, anxious, hurt, frustrated for a decade, or multiple decades. You want that? I KNOW you don't deserve that... . because I couldn't wish this on my worst enemy. The camera is a small price to pay to save yourself from the burning building. What you lose by staying in is your self esteem, your security and contentedness, personal safety and peace, and the benefits of being in a mutually satisfying, reciprocal romantic relationship. because you cannot have that with her. this relationship will always only ever be about HER. you think it's bad now? stick around for another year! better yet, save yourself. there are saner fish in the sea. and from where most of us sit, we'd probably agree that, all things being equal, we'd rather be lonely the rest of our lives than put up with this for a minute longer than necessary.

take care of you. have the lives we can't! 

[karma_gal]

run away. far and fast. some of us have been feeling like you feel RIGHT NOW - confused, anxious, hurt, frustrated for a decade, or multiple decades. You want that? I KNOW you don't deserve that... . because I couldn't wish this on my worst enemy. The camera is a small price to pay to save yourself from the burning building. What you lose by staying in is your self esteem, your security and contentedness, personal safety and peace, and the benefits of being in a mutually satisfying, reciprocal romantic relationship. because you cannot have that with her. this relationship will always only ever be about HER. you think it's bad now? stick around for another year! better yet, save yourself. there are saner fish in the sea. and from where most of us sit, we'd probably agree that, all things being equal, we'd rather be lonely the rest of our lives than put up with this for a minute longer than necessary.

take care of you. have the lives we can't! 

Agree 100 percent.

Except I would change it to, "the lives we are working to reclaim," because we're gonna get there someday. 

[Free2Bee]

Thank you, everyone for the openness and generosity of your replies. Some of your words literally moved me to tears. I'm in a tough place with this, but it's so clear to me that many of you have suffered very deeply in your relationships.

In the past few days, I've started the process of 'coming back to myself' and realised how unhappy and cynical I've been in other areas of my life. Friends and coworkers were puzzled by my ennui, especially given that I was in this 'happy' new relationship. I didn't realise how much of myself I was losing until I stepped away and took a hard look at myself.

One thing I'm certain of - if I did choose to stay in this relationship, my partner would need to be a 'motivated client' in therapy and *I* would also need to be in therapy. To be perfectly honest, I don't have the financial resources to pay for this (and neither does she, really).

And I know I don't have the emotional reserves to handle this. If I'm honest with myself, I've been happier and more content in the past four days than I've been in three months. The tension was wearing me down and I was starting to question myself.

The only things keeping me in the relationship are loyalty and love. The loyalty is probably misguided (at one point, I promised her that I wouldn't 'give up on her' but I didn't know what I was getting into at the time... . ).

And I'm starting to realise that although the love I feel for her is genuine, her love for me is clouded by the BPD. It might not even be real. And I can't expect any mutal trust or reciprocal support in our relationship. If I cry or show any strong negative emotion at all, she shuts down.

I'm going to read some more and get a good night's sleep. Thank you again for your feedback and your caring. I'll update this thread when I come to a decision, but I think I know which direction I'm heading.

Kai

[spuds_mckenzie]

I think what everyone has said is excellent advice.  Myself, there is no way I would have married my BPDw if I knew what I was in for over the long haul.  I no longer love her and am just in it for the kid that we had, and I feel like an empty shell.

Holy cow, I would upvote a million times your sentiment about not getting back into anything with your SO unless their problem is addressed and they are committed to therapy.  Your window of opportunity to get them into therapy is a narrow one, and will be gone once you're established as the "bad guy" in any relationship problems.

[spuds_mckenzie]

Oh, by the way, you said you didn't have the financial resources to get into therapy.  I live in a southern state with a college town, and our county actually has free family services with marital counseling, and it's all on a sliding scale and it's basically "pay when you can".   You may want to see whether there is such a service.  We used them for about a year since they were actually pretty good at what they did, but the BPD dynamic never was identified and they weren't psychiatrists (mostly LPCs), so I think it was inevitable that it didn't work for us.

[willtimeheal]

Even if she went to therapy there is no guarantee she would stick with it or improve. Bpd is a life long illness. It doesn't go away.

You said it yourself you have been happier in the last few days than you have been in the last three months. Bpd is tricky... . I didn't realize what was happening to me emotionally or mentally till it was too late. She had stripped my self esteem and self worth to the core. She isolated me from the people and things I loved.  I just kept thinking things will get better. If I just love her enough and show her I am not giving up on her... . bottom line is you can't fix her. The only person you can fix and save is yourself. Walk away... . actually run. Good luck.

[karma_gal]

Even if she went to therapy there is no guarantee she would stick with it or improve.

I have found this to be very true in our case.  Your mileage may vary of course, but what I've seen with my H is that as soon as the therapist -- and there have been MANY -- get a good feel for the situation and start pointing out to him how destructive his behaviors are or how he is creating the very same issues that he claims to hate and that cause him to rage, he bolts and refuses to go back.  I'll try again six months later, he'll go a couple of times, can't take being told he's the primary cause of the issues, and bolts again.  I think the numbers I have read is that for therapy to even have a chance of success, it needs to be pretty intensive, like three to five years consistently.  Considering most can't go three to five visits without triggering and leaving, unless they are truly motivated for themselves to figure out why their life sucks -- and most just aren't because it's all our fault, of course! -- it's difficult to get and keep them in therapy long enough for it to make a noticeable difference. 

[Seneca]

Thank you, everyone for the openness and generosity of your replies. Some of your words literally moved me to tears. I'm in a tough place with this, but it's so clear to me that many of you have suffered very deeply in your relationships.

In the past few days, I've started the process of 'coming back to myself' and realised how unhappy and cynical I've been in other areas of my life. Friends and coworkers were puzzled by my ennui, especially given that I was in this 'happy' new relationship. I didn't realise how much of myself I was losing until I stepped away and took a hard look at myself.

One thing I'm certain of - if I did choose to stay in this relationship, my partner would need to be a 'motivated client' in therapy and *I* would also need to be in therapy. To be perfectly honest, I don't have the financial resources to pay for this (and neither does she, really).

And I know I don't have the emotional reserves to handle this. If I'm honest with myself, I've been happier and more content in the past four days than I've been in three months. The tension was wearing me down and I was starting to question myself.

The only things keeping me in the relationship are loyalty and love. The loyalty is probably misguided (at one point, I promised her that I wouldn't 'give up on her' but I didn't know what I was getting into at the time... . ).

And I'm starting to realise that although the love I feel for her is genuine, her love for me is clouded by the BPD. It might not even be real. And I can't expect any mutal trust or reciprocal support in our relationship. If I cry or show any strong negative emotion at all, she shuts down.

I'm going to read some more and get a good night's sleep. Thank you again for your feedback and your caring. I'll update this thread when I come to a decision, but I think I know which direction I'm heading.

Kai

Kai,you are right about that. she is not able to love you. when she tells you she loves you, what you should hear in your head is "I need you". They cannot love in the same capacity as you or I. pwBPD objectify other people. you are an object to meet the need in her, to fill the void in her being. while that is swell and all if you are a co-dependent, the reality is - when you had a bad day and need understanding, you won't get it. when you are grieving over the loss of a loved one, there will be no arm around your shoulder. when you need support or encouragement, there is no well to draw from. pwBPD have extreme difficulty in empathizing. Brain scans of pwBPD show that the part of the brain that processes "self referential" events, is larger and overactive. that means, they view most things through the "and how does this effect me" lens. she is not going to be capable of participating in a mutually satisfying, reciprocal romantic relationship with you. now or ever. therapy or no. it is not possible. she MAY be able to change behaviors, but the feelings, they will never change. I am sorry. Take our advice, and take your leave of her.