Time to set some limits

[qcarolr]

DD27 being 'vacated' from 2nd hotel. 2 weeks seems to be her limit on one place. Too much traffic in her room and overnight guests. She blames 'life' or the people that find her and knock on her door at all hours.

Maybe she needs to be living at the jail on 'work release'; going to her program during the day. This was option no one would tell me about before her last hearing, so we made arrangements for her to have a place to go when released. The judge was going to sentence her to work release and PACE, then the lawyer told him we had a place for her to stay.

It is so hard to make decisions around what is reasonable support for our DD when we cannot talk with those in charge of her life in the courts.

Do I talk to her probation officer about this, or let things unwind in the natural course of things? I keep hearing -- "wait for it, wait for it" in my mind and from some supportive friends. We have the money set aside, will do the next week. Maybe best to do one week at a time anyway.

Also found opening for apartment - run down but maybe that will work for her. Going to look at it on Saturday for February 10th move-in. Have to really ponder this obligation.

qcr

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Verbena]

qcr,

As always, my heart goes out to you as you struggle to help your DD as well as your gd.  I know very little about the ins and outs of lawyers, the courts, and "the system" in in general.  However, (and this may be stating the obvious), it seems that your DD cannot handle the freedom she has when living alone.  Whether it's a hotel or an apartment, I don't believe she can regulate herself enough to make good decisions about allowing homeless/questionable people to rotate in and out of where ever she is.  The fact that she blames others for her being evicted over and over and can't see that she can (or could) have some control over that is not surprising.  My experience with own BPD daughter is that it is always someone else's fault. 

So, your thought that living at the jail and being on work release is, in my opinion, her best option.  And, I would absolutely speak to her PO about it.  Otherwise, the hotel/apartment hopping will just continue. 

You will continue to be in my prayers. 

[jellibeans]

qcaroir

You are in a tough spot for sure. You have a bottomless heart for your dd. Such a long battle and still you reach down again into the well with help and support for her. You are such a good mom with a big heart. I do not know what you should do but maybe an appartment with invite less trouble than a hotel set up. Have you thought of telling your daughter to keep her where abouts private? I wanted to send a hug your way.

[Thursday]

So sorry to hear about this latest eviction.

It is so hard to make decisions around what is reasonable support for our DD

Is it possible that somewhere in the above is something that seems like it is backwards? What if you had not tried to make a decision this last time? That nagging little WAIT FOR IT, WAIT FOR IT... . can you silence all of the inside discussion and let that little voice be heard?

So hard to stop and sit silently before rescuing. When we feel compelled to rescue we really need to consider what the natural consequences will be and then consider if the lesson to be learned from the natural consequences is too high a cost for the situation. In most situations I've experienced with my SD, the natural consequences usually work out, if not immediately because she is slow to "get it" then eventually she learns. She makes small changes that add up to getting along better in her life.

It is fear inducing to wonder the what ifs. A lot of parenting a kid with BPD is like a leap of faith. By this I mean, you have to sort of take the leap into holding off on rescuing with faith that the outcome will be better than if you don't. Or at very least, a step in the right direction.

Can you consider that there might be a moment of clarity for your daughter (or at least the beginnings of clarity) if you let go of the what ifs.

Ask yourself, in those difficult scary moments, What if I don't rescue and some sort of terrible damage is done (to DD's psyche, to her attitude, to her ... . fill in the blank)d VS What if I don't rescue and she learns how to negotiate this particular situation. Wouldn't it be helpful if she could learn that having too many guests stands in her way to living on her own? How is she going to learn this if you continue to allow her to do this and just switch out motels at the end of a week of poor behavior?

You and your husband have set her up in two different hotels now. And are ready to do a third. And you are wondering if maybe week to week is better. You are wondering about renting her an apartment. How many hotels that offer a weekly rate with a kitchen are there in your area?

Does your daughter have absolutely NO responsibility here? It sounds like this is the message you are sending. It seems like your DD understands this- she makes a few excuses, it's life, it's out of her control and you haul her butt out of the fire. And if that is true, will her lack of being asked to take responsibility hold you and your husband hostage, continue to negatively affect your life, your peace, your gd?

I hope I'm not being insensitive. I do understand your dilemma.

All my best to you q.

thursday

[peaceplease]

qcr,

Oh my!   I really feel for you!  When does it end, huh?

Your dd has all the homeless coming to visit, and it seems they will always be there.  Will you be responsible for damages by visitors?  Are you willing to pay for it?

I wonder why they did not tell you about the option of her having work release from jail.  I wish that you did not have to make these decisions, and they(judge, law enforcement) would make them for you.  You are placed in a terrible position!

Can't dd be evicted from her apt. for the same reasons that she was asked to leave from the two previous hotels?

You are in my prayers.

peaceplease

[qcarolr]

You all have stated out loud the things dh and I are discussing. I left a message for her PO today. If she does not call in the morning I will call her again.

DD needs some kind of residential care. Jail, rehab, rtc. She is showing clearly that she cannot do this on her own. She was in such distress when dh arrived to get her stuff. Think she must stuffed her phone away, or ignored my text of room for the next week. The text included "this is the last move". She told dh when he go there that she had no place to go. I am sure she wants to come home. Yet, she does the same thing here - refuses to not have her homeless friends here continuously.

It is like she is the queen at first for one or two people (any gender), then the words gets out and she is deluged and cannot get them to leave. This is the pattern that the PO has to get somehow. It will eventually lead to more harassment or assault charges. Or worse.

So, if she cannot manage this next week she will be homeless in the winter again. I just want to sob out loud when I think of this.

There are some houses the mental health center owns. They are voluntary to my knowledge. She would not agree to this. Have to leave it up to the PACE team to figure this out.

Jail would be better than this.

And the piles of stuff she can accumulate! 3 weeks ago my car was full of bags. Tonight dh's truck bed was full plus the back seat.

My take - she has a big void inside that she is desperately trying to fill with temporary things. Praying for me to be able to wait on the solution to come from somewhere else, and DD to be safe.

qcr

[Rapt Reader]

*cross-posted with you, qcarolr, but I'm posting anyway to validate you   *

qcarolr, I'm so very sorry for all of this trauma with your daughter. I, also, think that maybe the work release/jail option might be the best for your daughter at this point. If you tell her and her attorney/the court that you cannot muster the funds for her rent, would the work release with PACE option be available?

I bet it would be heartbreaking for you to have to pursue this option, because she will probably balk, plead, cry and manipulate to try to get you to find her a place to rent. But, it probably is the safest place for her at this time, and then you will always know where she is, that she is warm and well-fed, safe from her homeless friends, working, getting treatment and learning how to make it without you always there for her.

I do understand a mother's need to keep her kid happy, and in what feels like the best situation. But, sometimes what we think is the best thing actually isn't. I found that out myself... . my greatest fear in life was for my son to get arrested. In fact, while I was home and around for him that would never happen for various reasons.

Well, in February 2013 while my husband and I were on vacation for two weeks my son finally self-destructed to the point where he did end up arrested (believe me, had we been home the circumstances would never have led to such a thing!). And ending up arrested led to his suicidal ideation the following day, which led to his hospital stay in the Psych Ward, which led to his being admitted to the Dual Diagnosis Center which saved his life and gave him his BPD dx and treatment. You do know the rest of the story 

And, in the end there was no jail involved, the charges were dropped and he doesn't even have a record. But, he does have his life back and is on his way to recovery. I've learned that the thing I feared the most during his whole adult life turned out to be the one thing that turned him around. And I'd been protecting him from it for more than 15 years! I really learned a lesson with this, and I know now that he had to reach the point he feared the most (and I feared the most) for things to get better. Who knew? 

Please, qcarolr, hang in there and see if this work release & PACE program can help. Tell them you are broke. You can't do anything more for your daughter. And if she hates you for it, so be it. Save yourself, your marriage, your granddaughter, your bank account. And in so doing, you quite possibly will be saving your daughter, too 

[qcarolr]

I did call and leave a message yesterday with PO, and then again this morning adding dh's perceptions after he moved her from one motel to another. Dh gets it now. We have paid for a week, and maybe could get another week there. Hope for a change in that time.

The PO called while dh and I were meeting with gd's T ( ). She left a message of her very serious concerns for DD. She is unable to show up, when she is there she is unable to participate, she is not very safe trying to live independently. She has asked PACE to find DD an inpatient placement, if such a thing can be found. There are long waiting lists.

I have asked everyone I can think of to pray diligently for success in finding a bed for her.

The PO stated that jail is not a good place for DD, but she is going to end up there due to the many violations of the probation order. I am so grateful that DD seems to trust the PO and has shared about some of her troubles. The PO is sincere in her desire to help DD.

[Verbena]

qcr, I'm so glad the PO got back to you and that she wants to help.  An in-patient program sounds like what your DD needs, and I will pray that happens. 

When you say the PO commented on your DD's inability to participate in her program, what does that mean exactly?  What is she required to do? 

[Bracken]

Dear qcarolr

Just want to send my prayers and best wishes too. Heartwrenching to read your news, but good to know that there is concern and understanding from the PO.

I think we do become "hostages" - as Thursday writes. I use that word too. I know it's wrong that I rescue and "enable", when it's guilt motivating me. But sometimes it seems to be faith or hope guiding me.   

Take care  

[Thursday]

She [PO] has asked PACE to find DD an inpatient placement

Maybe she can pull some strings! This sounds very encouraging.

Prayers said.

Thursday

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[qcarolr]

Court ordered her into this dual-dx program. PO is the 'boss' with team of case coordinator, nurse, therapist. She is to arrive daily before 10:30 am for her meds and breathilizer with nurse. She is to meet with T weekly and participate in any groups (none have been assigned yet). She is to meet with PO weekly. She is to do UA at another location when her daily phone gives her color code to report. (UA is urinalysis for multiple drugs - called a poly UA).

She does not show up even when it is a walk across the street from her lodging past 3 weeks. She was in a motel a mile walk plus bus ride away for the first 7 weeks. She has been out of jail 10 weeks.

She is struggling to keep other friends away from her room. Mostly homeless. She may invite one or two. Once the word is out there is someone with a room, more just show up. Then she is unable to get them out, keep them from knocking on door all night. She does not ask management for help. She is exhausted.

She is also struggling still with losses of previous bf's. Really emotionally messed up.

She did better by even the 4 days in the detox - I saw this when I picked her and returned her to her room.

I am grateful for the PO searching for mental health care instead of just putting her directly back in jail. She does agree that DD has severe disabilities that the jail has not been able to support in the past. PO said she would contact me on Monday with update.

Hope we all can get some rest over the weekend. dh and I need to focus on gd. she is very destabilized right now with her own patterns. I have a separate thread on gd.

Appreciate all your support and prayers.

qcr