Perspective piece: who did you need your BPDex to be?

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

From what I have both seen in my time here as well as experienced in my own journey through grief, the grieving process begins by focusing on the pwBPD; The things they did or didn't do touus, the things they said, the ways they manipulated us, etc. At some point the focus must shift to us; after all, we have control and influence over US- we do not have control or influence over our BPDex's. We can only make things better on our end... . We cannot change who our BPDex's are or what they choose to do.

Upon doing  a little reflection today I realized that I have had a common problem among the women I have been interested in; I have suffered  disappointment after disappointment because the girls I have become interested in do not turn out to be who I wanted them to be. That is an important distinction: so often people talk about here how PwBPD are chameleons and how they deceive us into believing they are one way or another. While there is certainly an element that stems from that idea, in the vein of examining ourselves we must acknowledge that we too played a role in this deception. I have seen PwBPD referenced on this board as parasites, people who cling onto otherwise healthy people and drag them down.  This perspective, while comforting because it relieves us of responsibility, is not accurate in my opinion. I instead see the relationship between PwBPD and non not as one of host-parasite but rather two pieces that fit together. Each of us had (or has) a void, or a need, within us that we desperately wanted our BPDex to fill. It is terribly disappointing and hurtful when we expect things from our lovers that they simply are not, or are not able to give us. We may feel betrayed, or misled, when in truth it was us who did the misleading.

By now, all of us know who our BPDex really is.  So, my question to you all is this: Who did you need and your BPDex to be, that they are not? 

There are the simple answers here: honest, loyal, faithful, responsible, etc. The answers I encourage you to consider have much more to do with what YOU needed from them, and why. For example, from my BPDex as well as all of the women I have been interested in, I have sought self-worth in them. I relied on them in order to feel wanted or worth something or important. When they turned out to not be as interested in me as I was them, or went and cheated,  or lied, I lost all of my self worth in my eyes.

[Octoberfest]

From what I have both seen in my time here as well as experienced in my own journey through grief, the grieving process begins by focusing on the pwBPD; The things they did or didn't do touus, the things they said, the ways they manipulated us, etc. At some point the focus must shift to us; after all, we have control and influence over US- we do not have control or influence over our BPDex's. We can only make things better on our end... . We cannot change who our BPDex's are or what they choose to do.

Upon doing  a little reflection today I realized that I have had a common problem among the women I have been interested in; I have suffered  disappointment after disappointment because the girls I have become interested in do not turn out to be who I wanted them to be. That is an important distinction: so often people talk about here how PwBPD are chameleons and how they deceive us into believing they are one way or another. While there is certainly an element that stems from that idea, in the vein of examining ourselves we must acknowledge that we too played a role in this deception. I have seen PwBPD referenced on this board as parasites, people who cling onto otherwise healthy people and drag them down.  This perspective, while comforting because it relieves us of responsibility, is not accurate in my opinion. I instead see the relationship between PwBPD and non not as one of host-parasite but rather two pieces that fit together. Each of us had (or has) a void, or a need, within us that we desperately wanted our BPDex to fill. It is terribly disappointing and hurtful when we expect things from our lovers that they simply are not, or are not able to give us. We may feel betrayed, or misled, when in truth it was us who did the misleading.

By now, all of us know who our BPDex really is.  So, my question to you all is this: Who did you need and your BPDex to be, that they are not? 

There are the simple answers here: honest, loyal, faithful, responsible, etc. The answers I encourage you to consider have much more to do with what YOU needed from them, and why. For example, from my BPDex as well as all of the women I have been interested in, I have sought self-worth in them. I relied on them in order to feel wanted or worth something or important. When they turned out to not be as interested in me as I was them, or went and cheated,  or lied, I lost all of my self worth in my eyes.

[Learning_curve74]

Lonely Child meets Abandonded Child

In some relationships, the idealization phase is the partner being in lonely child stance and the Borderline being in abandoned child stance.*Both need saving* Both need attachment to stave off the pain of being alone.  This is one type of bonding seen in this community.

In this bond, both people bring core trauma to the relationship. Mirroring reenacts the earliest childhood experiences to rise up and emerge into consciousness.

In idealization, there is a dual identification and projection for both people that they have found a perfect love- however, one partner (the “lonely child”) does not yet realize that the other partner (the abandoned child= Borderline) has no whole self- and is utilizing a fantasy of a part-time good in order to fuse with the partner's part time good and become one.

The lonely child has spent much of their life becoming “one.”  When a lonely child finds an abandoned child, both parties feel needed. However, rather than truly loving the individuality of both parties- the sad, fantasy aspect of mirroring magnifies the unhealthy *needs* of both people.

When the lonely child begins to question the reality of mirroring (reality testing) this raises core traumas into activation concerning both the questioning (uncertainty) and the hope (unfulfilled expectations) of the unrealistic attachment. "Lack of inherent trust" is found in both parties at this stage.

Reality testing causes the lonely child to pull away because certain things don't add up- as you say, "the idealization phase slowly erodes."

Pulling away, even while in the lap of comfortable luxury- triggers the abandoned child issues of the Borderline. This causes panic reactions of clinging behaviors by the Borderline to prevent the retreat of their desired love object. These immature demands can look like entitlement to others, especially to a lonely child, who has learned early on to be self sufficient and to self soothe- but the entitlement markers are highly charged and emotional to a Borderline, which isn’t Narcissistic grandiosity- it’s ego deficiency and panic.

The entitlement phase brings a hidden "angry and aggressive child" out from hibernation and into full view and this usually occurs when the lonely child least expects it.  The angry child that emerges is pissed and has delusions of persecution that are ideas of reference from earlier childhood trauma. It’s at this point that the angry child (Borderline) will become enraged and try to cast off shame.  They may attempt to harm himself/herself in order to scapegoat the lonely child- who unwittingly stands-in for the earliest attachment.  This triggers the lonely child's trauma from their earliest attachment as well.

The Borderline wants so badly to be whole that they demand that the lonely child create wholeness for them- which the partner succeeds in doing early on but then relaxes. The Borderline temper tantrum, with its ideas of reference being so very childlike and fantastic, perceives the relaxation of the partner as though the attachment is split up. In order to cope, the Borderline must now find another part time perceived good object to self medicate the emotions of feeling badly from the split.  If this cannot be accomplished, the surge of limbic fear concerning anger and abandonment causes such great pain that self harm is often inflicted for relief.

The lonely child is often very surprised by this. The anger and dysregulation are in contrast to what he/she perceives are necessary for the circumstances. (The lonely child fails to see need disguised as "love."  Therefore, the lonely child seeks to understand the Borderlines ideas of reference concerning "love" in order to cope with the neediness and begins a line of questioning.  The Borderline retreats.

Lonely child is "understanding driven" and gets drawn into the Borderline acting out. The lonely child now has a mystery- the Borderline dilemma of "who am I?" This is very likely the same way that the lonely child came into existence as an “understanding driven” child. Especially when he questioned the motives of his earliest attachments during infancy and adolescence.

The lonely child *understands* the need to be held, loved and understood – because that’s what he longs for in others. The lonely child feels that in order to deal with acting out of the Borderline- the lonely child must project the aura of grace, compassion and understanding upon the Borderline and also guide, teach and show the way- because after all, that’s what the lonely child would want someone to do for him. There was a large reason that the initial mirroring (of this fixer /rescuer ego) worked so well in the idealization stage- the relationship really WAS the projection of lonely child that was mirrored, not the deficient ego of the Borderline.

In the "upside down" world of the Borderline, the lonely child is the perfect attachment to fuse to and the hypersensitive Borderline is the perfect mystery for the lonely child to try to understand.  This is the reactivation of a childhood dynamic- that forms a needy bond.

The Borderline is a perfect template with which to and identify with as a good object and also one to invest in to feel better about the “self.”

The understanding driven lonely child "imagines" (projects) onto the Borderline what he/she feels the Borderline identifies with. The lonely child often fills in the blanks with projective identification and the Borderline attempts to absorbs this- but it's impossible to appear as a self-directed person while taking cues and mirroring another self directed partner.

The Borderline scrambles to keep up with what is projected in a chameleon like manner.  All of this pressure to adapt and conform to the projection smothers and defeats the Borderline’s yearning for a perfect bond and triggers engulfment failure.  

Engulfment also means loss of control, annihilation fantasies and shame.  Shame activates the punitive parent that resides in their inner world, their psyche. The attachment failure has now become shame based for the Borderline.  It will soon become guilt driven for the lonely child partner.

[santa]

Excellent question, Octoberfest.

I think the person I needed my BPDex to be is the illusion she created when she was mirroring me. That girl really got to me. If she could have just kept doing that forever, things would have been great. She couldn't keep up the act forever though.

The problem is that isn't really her. The real her, which I saw about 10-20% of the time, is not someone I'd ever want to be around consistently. The real her is pretty scary and can destroy me if I let her.

[Learning_curve74]

I was wounded from emotional trauma and abandonment by my father, she was emotionally abandoned and physically abused by her parents. From the analysis by 2010, I am the understanding driven "lonely child" who constructed a self and she is the chameleonic "abandoned child" who is fuses to another to create a false self. Our wounds are complementary and interlocking.

[santa]

I was wounded from emotional trauma and abandonment by my father, she was emotionally abandoned and physically abused by her parents. From the analysis by 2010, I am the understanding driven "lonely child" who constructed a self and she is the chameleonic "abandoned child" who is fuses to another to create a false self. Our wounds are complementary and interlocking.

I think I'm in the same boat, man. That narrative sounds very familiar.

This is one reason why I'm not in a rush to get back into another relationship. I think I'm just going to focus on me for awhile. I'm sure I'll date again, but I need to work on some things first.

[Moonie75]

A better version of ME! And I got it (for a honeymoon).

She came along with her great boobs & poo shoot I was allowed to use for my own personal pleasure.

That was good enough for me so I bought it!  

[santa]

A better version of ME! And I got it (for a honeymoon).

She came along with her great boobs & poo shoot I was allowed to use for my own personal pleasure.

That was good enough for me so I bought it!  

LOL

Same here. Who wouldn't love someone who's mirroring us and also happens to be beautiful and all the sex we could dream of? Lol. Throw in the emotional roller coaster and it was the perfect love cocktail. 

Too bad it wasn't real though. Kind of reminds me of the movie Weird Science. Haha

[Moonie75]

Ha ha yeah! I was gonna compare it to Weird Science the other night but couldn't remember the film title!

[PhoenixRising15]

Every time I read the lonely child vs. abandoned child, I cry and shudder.

I don't want my Daisy to be sick.  I want her to be healthy.  I wish that damn post didn't resonate so much.  I wish it didn't read like a textbook guide to our relationship.

I feel so guilty for saying that.  As if knowing somehow would have helped.

I struggle to believe she is actually BPD despite meeting all the diagnostic criteria.  Perhaps part of me is still in shock and denial.  It's part of my life pattern to believe everything is my fault, and it doesn't help that she told me everything was my fault.

I needed Daisy to be the mother I never had.  To hold me and tell me, no one should ever rape a child.  That what happened to me was terrible and not my fault.  That I was still very lovable even after my childhood history.  And she did.  She told me all those things.  She helped heal a part of me, and I feel like a schmuck for going NC with her.  I know she was hurting from it, but she was hurting me and I had to walk away.  I wish I could tell her that.  I wish I could explain, that I still love her, and I want the best for her, but I can't be a part of someone's life who consistently hurts me.

Geez, its scary to read that and remember that at one point, she actually told me she wanted to stop hurting me.  She felt so bad, but she couldn't seem to figure out how.  I tried to make it simple for her.  Loyalty, Honesty, Fidelity.  Everything else I was ok with.  But the further back I pulled my boundaries, the easier I tried to make it for her, the more she pushed me away until I had nothing left to give.

Sometimes I wish I could just give myself a little credit. I wish I didn't feel like all I did was hurt her.  I wish I felt like she knew there was something positive I did in her life.  But all she has is hatred for me.

Sorry for the long post.  You got me going good with the lonely child/abandoned child.

Short story: a loving mother, whom I will never have, and I vow to repair myself so that I don't seek this out anymore.

[RecycledNoMore]

I read that article about lonley child meets abandoned child 6 weeks ago...

It changed something inside me

Ive been reading and posting like a woman possesed, thoughtless bravado sometimes, trying to deny the truth in what I knew in my heart was true

I wanted him to need me

Not even sure what to do with that yet.

QuestioningFaith, I had my first T appointment today, she reminded me that I need to feel my feelings not stuff them down like I usually do, reading your post opened the floodgates... .

Thanks for being so open and honest

It was the first time in a long while that I cried without guilt.

[arn131arn]

the exact opposite of who she was/is

[goldylamont]

the exact opposite of who she was/is

i plead the fifth! arn that was pretty funny

honestly though, long before i even knew what BPD was my step mom and her sister asked me what i was looking for in a woman, and i told them "someone who has properly processed all their core trauma". i felt liberated finding out about BPD a year later to give a framework to how i was feeling.

[happylogist]

In my case it was also the desire to be understood, accepted and loved without strings attached coming from "the lonely child" narrative.

It took me some time to realize that I mirrored as well, but this mirroring was a bit different. I mirrored what I expected from him (and generally significant men figures of my life) in my actions towards him. It sounds complicated as I write, but it was very simple - I did and said many things with the hope to get the same treatment one day, I had expectations from him that I mirrored in my actions. As time passes I realize these were genuine attempts to make him feel better, to make him feel loved or understood, but overwhelmingly it was what I wanted from others rather than what I wanted to give.

Lately we had a talk with my ex (he wants to be friends), where again in half-anger/irritation he told me that I put the responsibility of my happiness on him, the burden he could not take given his unhappiness and suffering.  I guess this explains why he pushed me away, but also what is more important for me now  - there is a big share of the truth - at one point my happiness was defined by his acceptance and love, which showed me how spongy were my boundaries and how easy for me to get enmeshed and define myself based on the acceptance of others.

[Free2Bee]

WOW WOW ... .

Read the link to the piece on 'lonely child' and 'abandoned child' and my mind is BLOWN. I copied the entire piece into my journal and then highlighted everything that applied to me. Pretty much highlighted the whole thing!

It's taken me hours to fully process what I've learned. I'm just starting to put together what parts of my personality came into play as I was drawn into the relationship with my BPD partner. This whole thread has opened up a whole new can of worms for me - in a good way.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and stories, everyone. I think I'll be mulling this over for DAYS.

[sun seeker]

 Wow learning. ... .

That hit me str8 to my soul brother I feel a sense of calm all of a sudden... .

Im definitely the "lonely child".

Both parents where their but not emotionally at all.

Thats why when she would hold on to me and rarely let go. I felt safe/secure , loved.

Thats not who she is and it ultimately failed.

Im into the forgiveness stage and struggling like a mofo. Last few days I have been wanting to talk to my xdBPDgf so bad,  its all I can think of. But I know I not ready and it would be unhealthy for me , & it wouldnt accomplish a dam thing. I'm fighting every urge to break n/c with everything i have.  I dont know where this strength is coming from. Im glad its here.

 

Lmao Moonie... .

[santa]

Wow learning. ... .

That hit me str8 to my soul brother I feel a sense of calm all of a sudden... .

Im definitely the "lonely child".

Both parents where their but not emotionally at all.

Thats why when she would hold on to me and rarely let go. I felt safe/secure , loved.

Thats not who she is and it ultimately failed.

Im into the forgiveness stage and struggling like a mofo. Last few days I have been wanting to talk to my xdBPDgf so bad,  its all I can think of. But I know I not ready and it would be unhealthy for me , & it wouldnt accomplish a dam thing. I'm fighting every urge to break n/c with everything i have.  I dont know where this strength is coming from. Im glad its here.

 

Lmao Moonie... .

Don't do it, man. I'm fighting the urge to break no contact today too. We've got to stay strong! Man up! We're not cracking today, dammit!

[sun seeker]

  Dam right santa. We are in thi ___ storm together!

[santa]

  Dam right santa. We are in thi ___ storm together!

You better believe it!

[Waifed]

I don't exactly know how to correctly answer this question.  I wanted her to be my "soul" mate.  I thought she was but not completely.  The kind affectionate side that she portrayed throughout the 3 year relationship was heavenly.  The silent treatment, subtle abuse and deception were not.  

She told me one time in Year 3 that if she ever agreed to marry me that I wouldn't want her.  I don't know if she was completely wrong about this.  I never thought she was mine and I was determined to make her mine.  The BS that happened along the way was just chaos that fit my personality and fueled my desire to make her mine.  My point is that I don't know if I would have become as enamored with her as I did if she hadn't used all the manipulation, etc.  It all played a factor in the "go down with the ship" attitude that I had to make this thing work.

The simple answer is I wanted the mirrored part of me and that was great but the chaos also made me want to win her over more.  If she had been all the good things and married me then i may have eventually become tired of the laziness, self absorption and aloof attitude.  I would have become exhausted taking care of her for a lifetime and probably grown to resent these things.

[santa]

 :)am right santa. We are in thi ___ storm together!

You better believe it!

I'll tell you what they're thinking. Those two sluts. They're looking at their phones thinking today is the day that sun seeker and santa come begging to talk to them. Santa and Sun Seeker are weak is what they're thinking. They're saying we'll call and they can toy with us for a few minutes and send us away crying with our tails between our legs. Well, that's not going to happen today.

Not today, my friend. Not today. We're not doing that now or ever.

[blueeyedjess]

I needed him to be the one I could depend on to pick me up, not the one who would kick me when I was down.

I needed him to be my partner, not my child.

I needed him to be strength when I had none, not the cause of my weakness.

I needed him to be my anchor in this world, the one that helped keep my feet on the ground, not the kind that drug me under the dangerous current.

[Waifed]

 :)am right santa. We are in thi ___ storm together!

You better believe it!

I'll tell you what they're thinking. Those two sluts. They're looking at their phones thinking today is the day that sun seeker and santa come begging to talk to them. Santa and Sun Seeker are weak is what they're thinking. They're saying we'll call and they can toy with us for a few minutes and send us away crying with our tails between our legs. Well, that's not going to happen today.

Not today, my friend. Not today. We're not doing that now or ever.

Don't really know if the assume they can have you back whenever, but it is definitely a good motivating thought to keep you from contacting them.  The longer you go NC the more likely they will be hesitant to contact you (aggressively), imo.  My ex was afraid to put it all out there.  She would throw out feelers and if you didn't take the bait she would keep trying different angles until she realized she wasn't going to win.

[sun seeker]

  Santa...

Yep I had that same thought, her sitting thier wondering when i would call . And your 100. NEVER!

[sun seeker]

 Waifed

  I hope my ex is like urs. In the sense she gives up and kicks rocks!

[PhoenixRising15]

@RecycledNoMore

Glad you got something out of it =) =) 

[Turkish]

I wanted to form a family, the one I never had being the single adopted child of a single mother. I never had a father figure... . at least not until well into my teens that I didn't think of him as a father. I met a great girl, but one with obvious trauma, which I thought was just from her adult relationships. I later found out those were the result of her unaddressed childhood traumas. Still, even though I wanted to slow WAY down, I bought into the FOG she put out. I wantd that darn family! Why would I form a faux family with a woman who pretty much admitted to a pathological hatred of marriage (commitment)?

In short, what one of my Christian friends says, and this I think is analogous to idealization, I engaged in idolarty. I wanted her.to be something of which she was encapable, a committed mother and partner. She is the former... . mostly, but not much of the.latter, no matter what she.says. so all in all.I wanted her to be the construct of my mind.

[Calm Waters]

If I am absolutely honest, and with the benefit of a year of hindsight since my exBPDgf dumped me, and since my mothers death 2 weeks ago I now realise that my ex was very like my mother in her tendencies and even in some of her features. Scary I know but the whole oedipal thing works I think, I was trying to repair the relationship with my mother by projecting her on to my ex. I think my ex was projecting her father or mother or both on to me. Messy! and nearly ended in a successful suicide by my ex

[Moonie75]

Messy! and nearly ended in a successful suicide by my ex

This line confused me so i had to unravel it. A 'successful suicide by your ex' wouldn't nearly end anything. It would definitely end it!

You mean it 'ended in a nearly successful suicide'?

[Calm Waters]

she attempted suicide and nearly suceeded

[Moonie75]

Was that during or after the relationship? That would make some run, & others stay.

I thank my lucky stars that wasn't a factor in my BPD experience.