Help with body image validation

[Midnightoil69]

Hi all

My wife of 14 years who I love dearly is very high functioning and sees basic validation for what it can sometimes be.

Her "go to" issue is her weight.

I am so fat

I have put on so much weight

I am disgusting

Why are you lying you can see I have put on weight

She is a very healthy weight and very attractive. Often as her eating disorder kicks in she is very slim but still feels the same.

I recognise why she feels this way but... .

Over 14 years I have struggled to truly validate these feelings and she is very perceptive and realises this so it is a regular bridge to conflict.

Any advice for some advanced level validation tips.

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[livednlearned]

Hi Midnightoil69,

Welcome to bpdfamily. Validation can work wonders, but it's not always simple to do. How do you respond when your wife says these things about her weight?

Has she been in treatment for her eating disorder or have a therapist? By high-functioning, do you mean that she has been diagnosed and treated for her BPD?

Sorry for all the questions!

LnL

[Midnightoil69]

Hi LnL

She is undiagnosed but about to re commence treatment for her ED which she asked for help with. This was very encouraging but may only address one symptom but let's see. Progress is progress.

By high functioning I mean she holds down a very responsible job and is in effect invisible to most people outside of a very small circle.

I try where possible to validate by explaining how I recognise she feels fat and this must be hard etc explaining when appropriate that is not how I see her.

She will use several methods to "prove" she is fat

Why can't I fit my clothes then

Why can't I see my rib cage

I must weigh xxx

Why are you lying

No actual evidence of course but that is not the point I guess.

It is classic no win behaviour but I am just reaching out to see if others might be able to share some thoughts.

[Tayto]

when it comes to weight and women, you are walking into no mans land !

if your asking for an opinion, this is what I say to my wife.

honey to me you are perfect, buut if you feel that you need to lose a few pounds and I,m not saying you do, I,m behind you.

I think you look beautiful and if your asking, id love to see you now, you kinky devil, will we go upstairs !

now you are never going to get upstairs, however you have just told her that you find her attractive with no clothes on, and more importantly for us men

you have just distracted her from the question that we will never really win on answering.

[livednlearned]

I understand your point keezie1, about women and weight, and it can certainly seem like a no-win situation... .

But weight is often about emotions, and midnightoil69 -- as hard as it is, you found a really good tool and it's really healthy that you're trying to learn how to use that tool to better connect with your wife. Also, she is showing a lot of courage to admit that she's struggling with an eating disorder. That takes a lot of strength. 

This is a workshop that really helped me understand and use validation: Communication using validation. What it is; how to do it

Here's another one: TOOLS: Stop Invalidating Your Partner (or the BPD person in your life)

Have you spent any time on the Staying board? Members there do a wonderful job giving each other feedback about using validation tools (and other staying tools), and I think if you post there that you'll hear back from others who know exactly how to support you.

[L4] Staying: Improving a Relationship with a Borderline Partner The educational material associated with our Staying group is based on the work from leading experts in BPD, so I think you'll find some great responses there.

[Wrongturn1]

My uBPDw lays a similar trap on a fairly routine basis (although she does not have the eating disorder... . beyond compulsive eating/drinking, which happens often).  I have not found a good solution yet for this one.  I think next time it happens, I'll try something along the lines of, "you know I think you're totally hot and I'm wild for you... . it sounds like you might be unhappy with your weight though, do you want to talk about how you are feeling?"

[duncanville1]

My experience this is just a validation fishing expedition. You cannot make someone feel differently about themselves, they hold that key alone.

[an0ught]

when it comes to weight and women, you are walking into no mans land !

Woman's body image: the final frontier.

if your asking for an opinion, this is what I say to my wife.

honey to me you are perfect, buut if you feel that you need to lose a few pounds and I,m not saying you do, I,m behind you.

I think you look beautiful and if your asking, id love to see you now, you kinky devil, will we go upstairs !

now you are never going to get upstairs, however you have just told her that you find her attractive with no clothes on, and more importantly for us men

you have just distracted her from the question that we will never really win on answering.

Distraction is certainly a valid strategy. Boundaries as well. Sometimes I'm resorting to exaggeration: "One gram more and we need to strengthen floor in the living room so you don't break through.".


There is a lot of fine advice here on the thread. Yeah validate but anyone who has been in that situation knows - this is like playing mine-sweeper with the mines covering the whole area and are stacked on each other. Any invalidation is bound to set of a whole chain reaction.

A person with BPD experiences often random and extreme emotions. Validation can help here a lot to stabilize. But then there can also be some core pains, fundamental deep pains like body image, eating disorders, abuse or or rape memories. Dealing with them is fundamentally hard and often beyond our reach. They are deeply anchored and may well need a lever from the outside to resolve. Yes we can validate, we can distract and walk away when it gets too  extreme but the wound in the core will stay and if at all heal very, very slowly. There are limits what we can and should be doing. Hoping this is just a passing emotions that needs regulating is not respecting the pain the pwBPD is suffering. Yes we can sooth and protect ourselves but we also need to accept that our partner is a deeply wounded person and there are limits what we can do. Often not making matters worse (avoiding invalidation and boundaries) are the best we can do.

It is worth pointing out that body image, eating disorders, anxiety and abuse memories are socially more acceptable and a potential motivation to seek out therapy.

[livednlearned]

I was thinking about this a lot today. My son will sometimes hold me emotional hostage (learned from N/BPDx father). It makes me nuts.

When validation doesn't work with S12, and when I'm sensing that we're entering a no-win zone, I will say: "I want to hear how you're feeling. Sometimes my responses make you feel even worse. Can you let me know how you want me to respond?"

I still sometimes get a bunch of hot wind, but it kinda peters out because he doesn't know how he wants me to respond. He just wants to be mad at me, no matter what. And that's not an easy thing to say.

Lately, he has started to say, "I want you to listen, that's all. I'm just mad."

Your situation is a bit more complex because an eating disorder has roots in some big stuff, like a0 said. And my guess is that her treatment center will want to include you in supporting her, giving you some idea about how best to do that.

[dontknow2]

Hello midnightoil69,

I've found my dxBPDh talks about his body negatively for a few reasons.

1) He wants to hear me validate and counter (like duncanville mentioned fishing). For this, I have found it more effective if I validate his truth coming 'from me' so he knows I believe it (not just telling him its true cuz he does). That said I ONLY do this if I do because otherwise, it is a failure to deal with for years. I also found if it better to stay specific to the topic (no generalizations - don't talk about his overall body if he is mentioning something specific). These are small nuances but works better in my case. (i.e. Yes, I see those bones sticking up from your shoulders. I know that you would prefer they weren't there. Yet for me, I think your shoulders are very sexy just the way they are.)

2) He feels like his body is his value. Since he sees his personality as fundamentally flawed, he wants his body (in his mind, his only asset) to be 100% perfect. So, he can't stop obsessing about it. Until he loves himself on the inside, I see this insecurity continuing indefinitely.

3) He is unattracted to me and has a hard time looking at my physical flaws (his eyes just focus in on them). In addition, he thinks I am worth less because of my looks (partly related to #2) and may not want to be with me because of it. Also, he feels guilty about his porn addiction especially because it has hurt me so much. So, him talking about his physical flaws releases some of his guilt, pressure, and communicates this to me in an indirect way. Part projection.

4) He knows I am insecure about my looks (even though he helps keep it there). Yet, he wants me to be the one who can overcome - be the emotional leader so maybe he can feel comfortable cracking his code some day. So, he uses his methods to help me see areas I need to work on.

Crazy stuff, I know!

From someone who has struggled my whole life with body image (and required lots of therapy to get to a better place), I want to tell you how awesome it is that you find your wife attractive through her weight swings (even if small) and are delving into helping her feel better about her body image.

[Midnightoil69]

Thank you all for your responses.

I have been aware of my wives core wounds for most of our relationship and as most of you say, validation is only a small part of life with someone with a PD. However a small improvement in this area is worth working at so thank you all once again.

I hope that by reaching out for help with an ED, my wife will at least be in a position to make improvements in her life and progress however small is a good thing. I will be there to love and support her but realise my limitations.

Sometimes I have to remind myself that actually amidst the searing pain, beautiful moments, chaos and serenity, my wife is actually a success story. She has a great career and is high functioning for large parts of her life. She is able to undertake charity work abroad and lets face it is alive, which is actually something in itself.

The more I read here and learn, the definition of success with BPD is so relative and personal and this is one of the most heartbreaking and sobering aspects for me as I move forward in life.

If this is success ( and I genuinely feel it is ) what will failure look like?

Thank you to all for making welcome here, I hope to contribute and share much more with you over time.