What to expect now?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

***I accidentally posted this on Leaving board -- meant to post here where I normally post. 

If a mod sees it, can it be removed from Leaving?  Thanks



Hi all,

I've been quiet on the boards simply because I've been so busy -- juggling the divorce issues (still trying to list house after being out a year!), moving to my new house, and I've fallen woefully behind at work.

Last week, we were near a deal with my stb ex to get house listed within the month, and he just melted down.  In two days he sent me dozens of wild emails; in many cases each one contradicted the last.  There was tons of name calling, claims that clearly I was lesbian and didn't want to be divorce, claims that the "community" also believes I don't want to get divorced, etc. 

All of this stemmed, so it seems, from a provision my attorney added to our ALMOST signed PSA which stated that IF husband stopped paying mortgage and foreclosed, I would still get my share of equity. 

My attorney added that to protect me because he's been threatening to foreclose for nearly the whole year I've been gone -- "If you stop paying mortgage, so will I, and we'll foreclose."  His mother even threatened me with it this summer, and his lawyer said to mine (a month ago after our hearing at which my stb ex WAS ORDERED TO PAY FULL MORTGAGE because I've purchased my own home and he's sole possessor), "Well, you know he can foreclose?"

In repeated emails since the hearing husband has been furious and feels a grave injustice has been done.  His brother, also an attorney (but not family law), is emailing me that he is paying MY SHARE of the mortgage.

They are extremely angry about the court order.  All of this can easily and rationally be solved by LISTING and selling the house and splitting the equity. Duh. 

He is making it so much more complicated and so much more difficult than it needs to be (not to mention ridiculously expensive).  I know each one of you here relates!

Back to my subject line:  A few days ago, after two days of crazy emails and firing his second attorney (!), I find out from mutual friend that he became very suicidal the day he fired his attorney (my attorney sent a STRONG letter with rationale for the provision and included a lengthy stream of emails from the two days with tons of threats of foreclosure, harassment, etc.).  After firing his laywer, my husband requested the correspondence. It must've gone downhill after that.

I assume he was drinking, home alone, and in despair.  He reached out to a friend, who got him and ended up having to call deputies to take him to ER.  At ER I was told he was combative and saying he was fine, and so the deputies had to drive him an hour to a larger hospital to admit him involuntarily to a psych bed.

I was a wreck that night -- emotions all over the place, crying, and I couldn't sleep.  I feel such compassion for him though he's been monstrous to me.  He has also (mostly) been very good to me, but I know he is a miserably distraught person with tons of self loathing.  I've seen him in a ball crying on the floor telling me how worthless he is.  My heart broke for him.  But now that he's right back out, I'm concerned and shocked he was released so fast.  We work together, and I wonder - will he be at work tomorrow?  Can he function? 

I presume they sedated him and spit him back out because within 72 hours he was home and his mother/brother are (or were) with him.

Who has experienced this?  No one but the one friend knows I even know about it.  Of course, I was hoping he'd get a 30 day inpatient and get some help.  Do you think he was diagnosed with BPD or pd?  Do you think he snowed them?

I just don't know what to expect but am waiting for other shoe to drop (as always).  I know I will be blamed by his family.  They have amped him up instead of calming him throughout the process. 

Does anyone have words of wisdom or experience to share?

[atcrossroads]

***I accidentally posted this on Leaving board -- meant to post here where I normally post. 

If a mod sees it, can it be removed from Leaving?  Thanks



Hi all,

I've been quiet on the boards simply because I've been so busy -- juggling the divorce issues (still trying to list house after being out a year!), moving to my new house, and I've fallen woefully behind at work.

Last week, we were near a deal with my stb ex to get house listed within the month, and he just melted down.  In two days he sent me dozens of wild emails; in many cases each one contradicted the last.  There was tons of name calling, claims that clearly I was lesbian and didn't want to be divorce, claims that the "community" also believes I don't want to get divorced, etc. 

All of this stemmed, so it seems, from a provision my attorney added to our ALMOST signed PSA which stated that IF husband stopped paying mortgage and foreclosed, I would still get my share of equity. 

My attorney added that to protect me because he's been threatening to foreclose for nearly the whole year I've been gone -- "If you stop paying mortgage, so will I, and we'll foreclose."  His mother even threatened me with it this summer, and his lawyer said to mine (a month ago after our hearing at which my stb ex WAS ORDERED TO PAY FULL MORTGAGE because I've purchased my own home and he's sole possessor), "Well, you know he can foreclose?"

In repeated emails since the hearing husband has been furious and feels a grave injustice has been done.  His brother, also an attorney (but not family law), is emailing me that he is paying MY SHARE of the mortgage.

They are extremely angry about the court order.  All of this can easily and rationally be solved by LISTING and selling the house and splitting the equity. Duh. 

He is making it so much more complicated and so much more difficult than it needs to be (not to mention ridiculously expensive).  I know each one of you here relates!

Back to my subject line:  A few days ago, after two days of crazy emails and firing his second attorney (!), I find out from mutual friend that he became very suicidal the day he fired his attorney (my attorney sent a STRONG letter with rationale for the provision and included a lengthy stream of emails from the two days with tons of threats of foreclosure, harassment, etc.).  After firing his laywer, my husband requested the correspondence. It must've gone downhill after that.

I assume he was drinking, home alone, and in despair.  He reached out to a friend, who got him and ended up having to call deputies to take him to ER.  At ER I was told he was combative and saying he was fine, and so the deputies had to drive him an hour to a larger hospital to admit him involuntarily to a psych bed.

I was a wreck that night -- emotions all over the place, crying, and I couldn't sleep.  I feel such compassion for him though he's been monstrous to me.  He has also (mostly) been very good to me, but I know he is a miserably distraught person with tons of self loathing.  I've seen him in a ball crying on the floor telling me how worthless he is.  My heart broke for him.  But now that he's right back out, I'm concerned and shocked he was released so fast.  We work together, and I wonder - will he be at work tomorrow?  Can he function? 

I presume they sedated him and spit him back out because within 72 hours he was home and his mother/brother are (or were) with him.

Who has experienced this?  No one but the one friend knows I even know about it.  Of course, I was hoping he'd get a 30 day inpatient and get some help.  Do you think he was diagnosed with BPD or pd?  Do you think he snowed them?

I just don't know what to expect but am waiting for other shoe to drop (as always).  I know I will be blamed by his family.  They have amped him up instead of calming him throughout the process. 

Does anyone have words of wisdom or experience to share?

[casper324]

Are we married to the same person?    I wish I had words of wisdom for you but sadly in the same situation as you.  If yours did get sent to the hospital, I would talk to your attorney and see if you can get POA over him due to his inability to think through the hate.

[atcrossroads]

Are we married to the same person?    I wish I had words of wisdom for you but sadly in the same situation as you.  If yours did get sent to the hospital, I would talk to your attorney and see if you can get POA over him due to his inability to think through the hate.

Thanks for the response, Casper, and it seems we were all married to the same person! 

Did yours get admitted involuntarily too?  And did you seek a POA to help make decisions about divorce?  Could a judge rule that we HAVE to list house?  It is true that he flips flops on his decisions regarding listing the house, buying me out, etc. CONSTANTLY and has done so for an entire year now! It's horrid.  Here we sit with the house STILL unlisted.  Unreal.

Now that he's been court ordered to pay whole mortgage, he's really dysregulating.  Mind you, we have been negotiating on a PSA since last spring but do NOT have a signed PSA.  My attorney said that likely means we will have enter litigation -- mind you, similar salaries and jobs and NO kids.  Litigation... . argh.  $$$$/Stress.  Not sure I can take either.

He flipped last week about the foreclosure provision, which as my attorney said is standard, particularly when the other has threatened to foreclose so many times.  IF HE DOESN'T FORECLOSE, THERE IS NO ISSUE.  I've suggested he get a roommate if he needs help with the bills; his response was totally illogical.  There are three bedrooms -- where do you propose a roommate sleep?  Ummm... . seriously?  And, there are no roommates.  Do you know of someone who needs a roommate?   Ummm... . have you tried asking on FB or posting a flier at work or looking in the paper.  Resources, logic, Can do.  None of these exist. 

So many times I've felt soo close to getting the PSA signed and house listed, and then a major meltdown occurs.  This was obviously the biggest yet.

What is the likelihood of getting a POA based on him being involuntarily admitted?  That sounds like it could get nasty.  Does anyone have experience with this?

Also, WHY didn't they keep him longer?  Is there just no helping a PD person?

So frustrated. 

[ForeverDad]

Is there just no helping a PD person?

Only if he is willing to accept help.  He is an adult after all.  And adults have rights, even to say No, even if it's not for their own good.

Very likely you can't help him, you were too close to him emotionally for him to see through his emotional baggage and really listen.  Possibly he won't listen even to the professionals with whom he's never had emotional ties.  His family stepped in but can you see that it's largely enabling him?  For example, rather than telling him to just sell the house to eliminate the obligation his brother stepped in to pay what you had been paying.

Some people say they won't look up until they've hit bottom.  The problem is no one knows where that bottom is, when it might be reached and even IF it might be reached.

It is what it is.  Keep your distance, it far safer that way.  Any re-involvement now won't succeed.

[atcrossroads]

Is there just no helping a PD person?

Only if he is willing to accept help.  He is an adult after all.  And adults have rights, even to say No, even if it's not for their own good.

Very likely you can't help him, you were too close to him emotionally for him to see through his emotional baggage and really listen.  Possibly he won't listen even to the professionals with whom he's never had emotional ties.  His family stepped in but can you see that it's largely enabling him?  For example, rather than telling him to just sell the house to eliminate the obligation his brother stepped in to pay what you had been paying.

Some people say they won't look up until they've hit bottom.  The problem is no one knows where that bottom is, when it might be reached and even IF it might be reached.

It is what it is.  Keep your distance, it far safer that way.  Any re-involvement now won't succeed.

Thank you, FD, for your words of wisdom.  I know you are right too, and I had not really considered that they are totally enabling him.  I was having a hard time understanding why family wouldn't encourage him to sell -- best thing for him -- but now I get that they are stepping in to "save" him and vilify me in process.

I realize how much I "saved" husband and propped him up during our marriage.  I guess he is using to being rescued.  

I am staying away and out of it -- struggling with my emotions about it all.  Of course, I'm grateful he didn't commit or attempt suicide, but I have so much anxiety about what will come next.

We were so close... . and have been many times... . and yet so far.  It makes me wonder how long drama will continue and all of this will drag out.

Thanks!  

[casper324]

There is something called a Quick Claim deed where one person person can sign over POA for real estate sales, google it for your State.  The problem with this is our STBx's have to agree to do it, that isn't going to be easy.  In your case you may want him to take the deed if there is no dealing with him.  My STBx had a lawyer at a TRO hearing who if nothing else delayed any support for our properties by filing for divorce the same day, now support is heard at the divorce not TRO.  My homes are in foreclosure although hopefully one is sold or at least under contract.  The problem now is because of the buyers delay the sale is now a Short Sale.  To get the Mortgage companies to approve a SS, he's got to complete paperwork and provide his own financial information.  He isn't going to do squat and leave me picking up the pieces at the last moment or face being sued by the buyers for breech of contract.  Meanwhile to be proactive it is going to cost me money from my divorce retainer to bring this issue to his attorney and he's already stated his goal was to break me and loose everything in the process.

He cancelled the Propane account last week when it was -10 Degrees out and was allowed to since the account was in his name.  I figured no problem put it in my name, my credit is so far in the gutter I would have had to provide a 1500.00 down payment.  I had to get it in my 82 year old Mothers name.   :'(  If there isn't much equity in the home, you may be better off walking and leaving it with him and absolving yourself from the debt. 

[ForeverDad]

For all co-owners or co-mortgagers:  Do not ever sign a quit claim deed unless/until

• (1)  You have been paid whatever money you are expecting.  Your ownership of the property can be your Leverage to obtain compliance.



• (2)  All mortgages, property loans, equity loans, liens, potential liens, etc have been removed, refinanced, permanently settled or resolved so that they are no longer your obligation.

Note that often all these things can be handled together at a mortgage closing.  But don't hand over the quit claim deed until you know the mortgage is actually going through and literally everything signed right there at the closing.  Until then you can sign it only if your lawyer holds it in safekeeping.  The last thing you want is not to be owner of a house and be responsible for its loans.

The reverse is also true if you are keeping the property, you need a quit claim deed from your ex.  You don't want to start a mortgage in your name only if ex fails to sign and thus remains a co-owner.

Leverage, awareness, alertness.  All are crucial.  It also helps to have a court order that specifies what must be done, when it must be done and and what the SPECIFIC CONSEQUENCES are for noncompliance.  When dealing with high conflict separations it is poor strategy to have to return to court just to find out what the consequences for noncompliance might be or might not be.  At the least heading back to court will create a delay for weeks or months.  Heading back to court may be unavoidable but try to get as tight an order as possible, it will surely be reinterpreted, ignored or obstructed.

[livednlearned]

A quit claim deed just takes someone off the title. It doesn't resolve the $$$ mortgage.

Just guessing here, but I bet your ex's lawyer uses the involuntary commitment to drag things out even longer. The court always errs on the side of being conventional and conservative.

It sounds he is having one hell of an extinction burst?

[ForeverDad]

And a court order stating "BpdFamilyMember is no longer responsible for the joint mortgage or joint loan" is likely to be ignored by the lenders.  If your ex gets the house, car, trailer, whatever then you have to be sure you get off any lending agreements, usually means ex has to refinance.  Anything less and you still have a risk of getting stuck with the bill, penalties and whatever.

[atcrossroads]

he's already stated his goal was to break me and loose everything in the process.

Indeed we ARE married to same person!   

If we do needed repairs, list, and sell (it will sell - great neighborhood, etc.), we will both make 10-15 equity.  That is worth it to me, as it will cover my legal bills and a portion of the huge amount of debt I have incurred because of his craziness.

LnL -- yes, the tantrums continue, and they are escalating.  Oops, I mean extinction bursts.

Can you believe he was back at work today?

FD- I'm overwhelmed and tired, so I need to read your quit claim advice tomorrow when I can concentrate on it.  THANK YOU!  Leverage is what I need all right.  I hoped all the leverage I needed was the court order for him to pay the full mortgage - yes, that squeezed and got him to agree to list, but look at the setback we've had now.  And, yes, it is like a big baby throwing a hissy fit.  My lawyer is great, thank goodness, but I cannot afford to keep piling up the debt.  It kills me that with no custody and same income, we could have have a $500.00 divorce.   

Thanks all!