Oh how they twist things

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Please let me know what you think of this post from my ex, in my eyes it seems like he has a twisted view on what happened the past year, he is blaming it on everyone but himself, like he is the victim? Yes we did have a nightmare of a year but doesn't he realise he is the reason! I called him on his comments because he was rude, my parents did care about his heritage they were concerned the band wouldn't also sing English songs which is fair enough as half the congregation weren't Croatian. I questioned him on it as well, whats so wrong with my parents being worried about it. Does he truly believe the stuff he writes or doesn't want to face himself? The last comment was to show he still cared as I had a skin cancer many years ago, the contradictory nature of his comments does my head in!


Unfortunately it seems to be a pattern that l shouldn't worry about any comments you and your parents make! That l should not be concerned nor worry however, all my comments were being scrutinised. Not happy with a Croatian band and discussing their frustrations with Hayley, then Hayley expressing them that day proved they didn't care about my heritage or leaving us to make our own decisions. It seemed clear to me things needed to be cleared with them for things to be ok and keep them involved and happy. l will admit it has been a struggle without you, but when l think back to the nightmare of a year it puts things in prospective. l'm always reminded of the phone call, nothing else seems to have mattered on the lead up to it which was and always be troubling to me. We are on different pages here sadly, l wish the circumstances were healthier but reality hurts and to endeavour would only be marred by our indifferences. Keep well and don't stay out in the sun to long

[loz1982]

Please let me know what you think of this post from my ex, in my eyes it seems like he has a twisted view on what happened the past year, he is blaming it on everyone but himself, like he is the victim? Yes we did have a nightmare of a year but doesn't he realise he is the reason! I called him on his comments because he was rude, my parents did care about his heritage they were concerned the band wouldn't also sing English songs which is fair enough as half the congregation weren't Croatian. I questioned him on it as well, whats so wrong with my parents being worried about it. Does he truly believe the stuff he writes or doesn't want to face himself? The last comment was to show he still cared as I had a skin cancer many years ago, the contradictory nature of his comments does my head in!


Unfortunately it seems to be a pattern that l shouldn't worry about any comments you and your parents make! That l should not be concerned nor worry however, all my comments were being scrutinised. Not happy with a Croatian band and discussing their frustrations with Hayley, then Hayley expressing them that day proved they didn't care about my heritage or leaving us to make our own decisions. It seemed clear to me things needed to be cleared with them for things to be ok and keep them involved and happy. l will admit it has been a struggle without you, but when l think back to the nightmare of a year it puts things in prospective. l'm always reminded of the phone call, nothing else seems to have mattered on the lead up to it which was and always be troubling to me. We are on different pages here sadly, l wish the circumstances were healthier but reality hurts and to endeavour would only be marred by our indifferences. Keep well and don't stay out in the sun to long

[fromheeltoheal]

Someone with a personality disorder finds it necessary to not take responsibility, blame and project, twist reality, whatever, as coping mechanisms to feel better.  We all do that BTW, it's just on steroids with a borderline.

That said, I don't know the rest of the story, and there are always two sides to every one.  What I do see is a relationship that fell apart, I'm sorry that happened, and curious how long ago that was posted, and how well you're doing shifting the focus to you, healing, growing and detaching?  Take care a you!

[Mutt]

It's pretzel logic.

I didn't figure it out until the r/s was over, BPD was suggested and started doing research and I land here on these boards.

I spent many, many, many, disagreements trying to reason logic with uBPDex and I felt frustrated, confused, stressed, defeated and emasculated. However hard I tried or approach things in different ways. I was always, always, always wrong. Everything was twisted around or I was hit over the head with a disagreement from the past.

Talk about being hard on the self-esteem when you can't meet halfway with your SO on anything.

I told her once out of frustration it's a miracle that I can walk and breath at the same time because it seems like I know absolutely nothing for a 38 old man at the time and can't seem to understand or do anything right.

At the end of the day, the 8 year r/s ended and the lesson that I learned:

You can't reason logic w/ crazy.

We're over, and I can just not answer her by e-mail or hang-up the phone if it gets to a circular argument or blame storm. So, glad I don't have to listen to that horsesh^t anymore.

[loz1982]

Yes I agree from heeltoheal there is two sides and if I thought my family had wronged him in any way, I would side with him, afterall he was going to be my future. They were never rude to him and even now I ask him what they have to apologise for and he can't tell me. None of his behaviour towards them was warranted and I nearly lost a relationship with my parents finding that out, I stood by him for a year while everything else crumbled around me, if my family were such a problem, why only make issue with it after we were engaged. My answer would be that he felt it was his right after the ring went on the finger. It was only yesterday and I know Im bad for responding, it doesnt set me back anymore when I hear from him, if anything his behaviour justifies my decision and helps me move on, I do have to stop defending myself and my family as this seems to fuel him. In response to my response, which basically said if you had such a problem with the way I was why did you propose, he wrote:

Why, good question. After hearing many times l have to guard myself if things don't work out l choose to show you l loved you and how committed l was to us! l had always planned to ask you, however l would of waited some time more. l thought you would of would then see how committed l was and things would change and those worries put to rest. However, nothing did. Same issue's and continued insecurity plagued the way to ending the relationship. Your statement of working and gaining respect/trust, is long gone. You don't see you lost my respect long ago by being indecisive and not standing by my side from the beginning. When l mean standing by my side, l mean whole heartedly and committed physically and mentally and emotionally which you weren't. l don't care to vindicate nor apologise for what's gone on, its long past that!

I know I don't deserve his comment about respect and I did commit physically mentally emotionally to him but it still gets to me that he believes that. I stayed committed long after others would've left but I will not stand by him wholeheartedly while he disrespects my family, I mean what person would.

I have to keep reminding myself of your comment Mutt you can't reason with crazy and why should I want too. I do feel like Im going a lot better though Im getting more angry which is a good sign!

[santa]

I'm very smart, but I've never won an argument with an idiot.

[love4meNOTu]

^^^ ok now that $hit is funny.

But, that being said, mine was so good at arguing. For him it was almost of release of tension... he really enjoyed yelling at customer service people, etc.

But he totally twisted everything to serve him, and looking back on it now, it's the only way he can function.

I think they really hate themselves, and they just cannot add your hate on top of that. So by twisting reality, they can push away all self blame. Emotionally they are just children.

Must be nice, eh?

L

[free-n-clear]

I'm very smart, but I've never won an argument with an idiot.

       Santa's spot on with that, loz. There's no point worrying about what he says, as it is only gonna do your head in thinking about it. 

My ex would say the most wildly irrational, untrue things when she was angry and no amount of truth or logic from me made any difference at all.

[loz1982]

How do you move past their out in out lies, their skewed view of you? How do you stop from defending yourself?

[santa]

How do you move past their out in out lies, their skewed view of you? How do you stop from defending yourself?

You just have to accept that they are crazy and that what they say is jibberish. There's no point defending yourself when the other person is just babbling nonsense.

[fromheeltoheal]

I got very defensive for a while with my ex, a result of being worn down by a constant barrage of crap, me still stuck in the fantasy of trying to fix it.  I eventually found out that if I got tough with her and treated her like a parent would, she responded like a little kid, guilty, anxious, sometimes bratty and rebellious.  Disgusted me; I didn't want to be in a relationship with a child, it ended not long after.

[myself]

How do you move past their out in out lies, their skewed view of you? How do you stop from defending yourself?

You stop being defensive by taking yourself out of the game.

Their skewed view is theirs, not ours.

Moving past their lies means seeing yourself for who you really are.

[love4meNOTu]

How do you move past their out in out lies, their skewed view of you? How do you stop from defending yourself?

Oh after you try to justify, argue and explain time and time again (JADE) you just get tired of it. I did. He was exhausting.

I finally just quit caring what his opinion was of me. Why would I care what a disordered person thought of me? Would I care if an ax murderer thought I was a nice person or not?

Nope.


Worst of all was the fact that he was upset about such illogical things... things from my personal life that had happened A DECADE before I met him... . and we'd resolve it and he'd bring it up again and again and again... . He was so very invested in not trusting anyone.

[Mutt]

I got very defensive for a while with my ex, a result of being worn down by a constant barrage of crap, me still stuck in the fantasy of trying to fix it.  I eventually found out that if I got tough with her and treated her like a parent would, she responded like a little kid, guilty, anxious, sometimes bratty and rebellious.  Disgusted me; I didn't want to be in a relationship with a child, it ended not long after.

Same here. It got to the point I was worn out and defending myself because I was tired of all of the garbage.

The gaslighting, pretzel logic, blame storms, circular arguments, rages, alienating me from the kids.

I think that my defensivness and anger towards her mirrored back and she could no longer cope. It triggered her and she quickly found a replacement, had him under her wings and fled.

[fromheeltoheal]

I got very defensive for a while with my ex, a result of being worn down by a constant barrage of crap, me still stuck in the fantasy of trying to fix it.  I eventually found out that if I got tough with her and treated her like a parent would, she responded like a little kid, guilty, anxious, sometimes bratty and rebellious.  Disgusted me; I didn't want to be in a relationship with a child, it ended not long after.

Same here. It got to the point I was worn out and defending myself because I was tired of all of the garbage.

The gaslighting, pretzel logic, blame storms, circular arguments, rages, alienating me from the kids.

I think that my defensivness and anger towards her mirrored back and she could no longer cope. It triggered her and she quickly found a replacement, had him under her wings and fled.

I left mine physically, but she had left me emotionally before that. At that point I didn't care who she was screwing, as long as she wasn't screwing with me.

[Mutt]

I left mine physically, but she had left me emotionally before that. At that point I didn't care who she was screwing, as long as she wasn't screwing with me.

I didn't leave mine physically, I got left physically years ago, yet was told that I had no interest in being physical.

It wasn't for a lack of trying on my part. Damn if you do. Damn if you don't.

It was months if not years in between. Always an ailment or due to her anger on her part. Migraines, or she was too pissed off for something that she "perceived" and that I had not done.

Burying the hatchet or make-up sex, not a part of her vocabulary.

She kept that sexual tension for other men though.

But yes, intimacy, physicality and sex, that got twisted around back to me. She had zero interest in it, not I.

[growing_wings]

How do you move past their out in out lies, their skewed view of you? How do you stop from defending yourself?

i used to think this way too. I felt the need to defent myself, etc. but is imposible, they twist and twist and twist and we fall into their games, we get pulled in.

I accept that they have an emotional disorder which makes them twist the reality to fit their needs, they are too broken to see the real life. based on this, i know that i have no option but to remove myself from the game. Sad to do it, but i dont see other way, unless you are ready to take more pain 

[Mutt]

i used to think this way too. I felt the need to defent myself, etc. but is imposible, they twist and twist and twist and we fall into their games, we get pulled in.

I accept that they have an emotional disorder which makes them twist the reality to fit their needs, they are too broken to see the real life. based on this, i know that i have no option but to remove myself from the game. Sad to do it, but i dont see other way, unless you are ready to take more pain 

Defend yourself by letting them fight with thin air. Disengage.

[growing_wings]

i used to think this way too. I felt the need to defent myself, etc. but is imposible, they twist and twist and twist and we fall into their games, we get pulled in.

I accept that they have an emotional disorder which makes them twist the reality to fit their needs, they are too broken to see the real life. based on this, i know that i have no option but to remove myself from the game. Sad to do it, but i dont see other way, unless you are ready to take more pain 

Defend yourself by letting them fight with thin air. Disengage.

you are so right Mutt... i am working hard to get to that point . is just not that easy. but indeed, that is the way forward.

[Pretty Woman]

Loz,

  It's classic projection. They take responsibility for nothing. It's everyone's fault but theirs.

Even in a recent "accidental" ha ha email to me my ex wrote: Apologies. Not MY apologies. Little shyt like that even shows what we are up against.

[Mutt]

Defend yourself by letting them fight with thin air. Disengage.

you are so right Mutt... i am working hard to get to that point . is just not that easy. but indeed, that is the way forward.

I agree it is hard growing_wings. I engaged the ex for 8 years until she finally left and was still fighting with her as if she wasn't estranged. It took me a long time to get here. Like anything else, with practice it becomes easier. I still falter from time to time and get sucked back in. I'm aware of it and I disengage. 

We have kids and from time to time I get e-mails where she's projecting / blame storming. I just say "that has nothing to do with me" and leave it at that. Let her project elsewhere. I don't take the bait to have it escalate to an argument, she loves that. But the emails are extremely short on my part and about the kids.

It amazes me how she still tries to fight with me as if we were together from someone that's convinced herself that she's "moved on".

[loz1982]

Yes growing_wings my ex said he lost all respect for me a long time ago but still contact me, bit contradictory! Mine doesn't mean half of what he says I've worked out. It's funny when he thought I might be coming back he was admitting a lot of stuff but when I was still hesitating he was taking back everything he said. Any wonder I can't trust what he says! I just can't understand how he believes the s##t he is spinning I feel like I don't know him

[free-n-clear]

Any wonder I can't trust what he says! I just can't understand how he believes the s##t he is spinning I feel like I don't know him  

Hi loz. Accepting that you can't trust what he says is a step in the right direction for your own sanity. Trying to sort the wheat from the chaff (truth from lies, distortions, spitefulness, etc.) is pointless, because it's 99.9% chaff anyway.

Once you accept that most of what he says isn't even worth listening to, let alone worrying about, trying to decipher or taking as a valid criticism, it's that much easier to move on.