Just trying to figure things out

[Depression = 72% of members]

My ex has so called been through a lot. When she was 20 or 19, she met a guy that seemed nice and they went back to his house and he (I'm sure you can figure out what I will say without saying it). She got pregnant by the encounter. She met some other guys offline who just used her for whatever purpose there was and wouldn't care about her feelings. She had been engaged two times before me. One got married and is a recovering heroin addict/alcoholic and the other is a control freak. Then you have me. The ultra understanding, passive, and just good guy(not to toot my own horn, but I have no addictions or am not a control freak, so I like to think I am a good guy.) Her father and mother are temperamental. According to her words, they can be the nicest of people towards her, but then flip on the dime of a switch and give her a hard time. I remember one time when I was over there and she was trying to discuss with them about the care of her grandmother and the dad said with me in the other room that he didn't care that I was there, when she had asked that he be reminded that I was in the other room.

In our relationship, It was pretty much this scenario. We would be okay. Things would be nice and dandy. But she was too picky (for example, what to eat for dinner), She would simply stay indoors unless she had a therapy appointment or an appointment with her psychiatrist. 

When I asked her to think about helping me maintain a clean house. She would say that she would and I would get home and nothing would be done. Sometimes I would come home when I was working and she would just want to stay home and sleep.  I am not one to just stay in. I like to go out and do things, like either go to the bookstore and be around people. She, on the other hand, got terrified of crowds too easily. She left me, because she felt that the spark wasn't as strong as it once was, and that she felt that I didn't listen to her or care about her feelings.

How many recycling attempts? She txted me a couple of nights ago wishing me a happy chinese new year. I am sure that there will be more times when she will be in touch. So let's see I am going to say that numero seven is coming soon. I can't say when, but I have a feeling it will be coming very very soon

MGL

[mgl210]

My ex has so called been through a lot. When she was 20 or 19, she met a guy that seemed nice and they went back to his house and he (I'm sure you can figure out what I will say without saying it). She got pregnant by the encounter. She met some other guys offline who just used her for whatever purpose there was and wouldn't care about her feelings. She had been engaged two times before me. One got married and is a recovering heroin addict/alcoholic and the other is a control freak. Then you have me. The ultra understanding, passive, and just good guy(not to toot my own horn, but I have no addictions or am not a control freak, so I like to think I am a good guy.) Her father and mother are temperamental. According to her words, they can be the nicest of people towards her, but then flip on the dime of a switch and give her a hard time. I remember one time when I was over there and she was trying to discuss with them about the care of her grandmother and the dad said with me in the other room that he didn't care that I was there, when she had asked that he be reminded that I was in the other room.

In our relationship, It was pretty much this scenario. We would be okay. Things would be nice and dandy. But she was too picky (for example, what to eat for dinner), She would simply stay indoors unless she had a therapy appointment or an appointment with her psychiatrist. 

When I asked her to think about helping me maintain a clean house. She would say that she would and I would get home and nothing would be done. Sometimes I would come home when I was working and she would just want to stay home and sleep.  I am not one to just stay in. I like to go out and do things, like either go to the bookstore and be around people. She, on the other hand, got terrified of crowds too easily. She left me, because she felt that the spark wasn't as strong as it once was, and that she felt that I didn't listen to her or care about her feelings.

How many recycling attempts? She txted me a couple of nights ago wishing me a happy chinese new year. I am sure that there will be more times when she will be in touch. So let's see I am going to say that numero seven is coming soon. I can't say when, but I have a feeling it will be coming very very soon

MGL

[Inside]

How many recycling attempts? She txted me a couple of nights ago wishing me a happy chinese new year. I am sure that there will be more times when she will be in touch. So let's see I am going to say that numero seven is coming soon. I can't say when, but I have a feeling it will be coming very very soon

MGL

That’s their MO…  They’re as fake as necessary to capture you but can’t sustain the energy necessary to ‘keep you.’  And, if they let you see the real them …you’d be packing…  So, they shove you away, check for other prospectives, then return – recharged for round 7!  Or in my case, 8

I just kept letting it happen, seemed better than the pain of missing/ wanting her…  But eventually it played itself out – and I left.  She’s made one attempt at contact, I've ignored it.  I’m not only looking to break our ‘awaytime record’ of three months …but to make it forever.  Reading around here does wonders.  Instead of ruminating over the ‘good times,’ there’s apparently no end to comparable versions of the bad times.  And, unfortunately, even less hope of her ever healing.

I’m looking to move on – hope you are too.  But if you’re like me, and must do a ‘round seven,’ it lasted for less time than any … so my advice is to avoid it altogether

[winston72]

Inside, you nailed it here... .

I just kept letting it happen, seemed better than the pain of missing/ wanting her…  But eventually it played itself out – and I left.  She’s made one attempt at contact, I've ignored it.  I’m not only looking to break our ‘awaytime record’ of three months …but to make it forever.  Reading around here does wonders.  Instead of ruminating over the ‘good times,’ there’s apparently no end to comparable versions of the bad times.  And, unfortunately, even less hope of her ever healing.

Yup... . to me the choice always seemed to be between ongoing pain or relief with complications from being with her.  I chose to avoid the pain of leaving and disregarded the pain from staying.  The missing link for me what a fuller awareness of what was good for me, and confidence in my own ability to find happiness in life without her.

[jynx]

Hey you guys ! Is this what you do when I'm not here? Continue the conversation without me?

Got lots to read now.

FYI -  I do not like football (and as usual there is always a story behind that), went to watch the game with friends, they made me pick a team that I wanted to win, without even letting me see what their uniforms looked like, so of course I picked the wrong team.  If I saw their uniforms, I would have went with the Seahawks !  Thank God, we didn't have bets.  I just love pizza, nachos, french fries with gravy, boneless chicken bites, and of course beer.   

Yanno, this weekend I was thinking of so many things since I joined here, but what amazed me the most, was I wasn't for once really concentrating on him and his behavior, (because it was just totally "nuts", I was thinking more about how my own behavior was changing because of nutsville. 

[mgl210]

Sorry Jynx,

I guess we got sidetracked... . Hope all is well... .

[love4meNOTu]

Did you ever have what you thought was a rational discussion, and I am only saying rational because it did not evolve into a rage, where you actually thought that the 4 hour marathon discussion you had, that it might have actually gotten through to them.  Then days later you review the convo in your head and realize nothing got through, nothing changed, that it was just a merry-go-round that you were on, but you thought it went ok only because a major rage didn't come?

I had to respond to this Jynx... .

Yes, many times I felt we had resolved an issue (generally it had to do with any of my previous relationships, gee I think there were 3) he was so freakin' jealous of these people that I hadn't seen in DECADES.

He would bring it right up again - out of the clear blue - six months later. Obviously he just couldn't let it go.

Never could. His brain is so twisted. He even ranted and raved about me to a mutual friend... and she just looked at me and shook her head... . said to me... "you've just got to get out, he's not gonna change, and your life will be hell".

I'm out!


L

[jynx]

Hi mgl

How are you doing?  So this is what real men do during the Super Bowl.  I am really impressed ! and that isn't being sarcastic.  

Are you really looking for "round 7"?  Please don't do that, you are too nice for that.

A little of my childhood history.  I was the middle child.  I was my dads favorite.  My dad was abusive, and since I was "his favorite" I got more of the abuse from him then my sisters did.  He also wanted a son, so he made me his son.  Now my mom gave more attention to my older sis and younger sis, since I was my dads favorite.  I tried so hard to get my mom to love me equally.  She probably did, but I didn't feel it.  My younger sister recently commented to me that she was happy that I was his favorite, because she would not have been able to deal with the abuse that she saw me get from him.

Out of my entire family I was the only one that was able to forgive him.  He died long time ago in 1980, but I do know that he was probably treated worse then he treated me, and he probably did the best that he could

[jynx]

Did you ever have what you thought was a rational discussion, and I am only saying rational because it did not evolve into a rage, where you actually thought that the 4 hour marathon discussion you had, that it might have actually gotten through to them.  Then days later you review the convo in your head and realize nothing got through, nothing changed, that it was just a merry-go-round that you were on, but you thought it went ok only because a major rage didn't come?

I had to respond to this Jynx... .

Yes, many times I felt we had resolved an issue (generally it had to do with any of my previous relationships, gee I think there were 3) he was so freakin' jealous of these people that I hadn't seen in DECADES.

He would bring it right up again - out of the clear blue - six months later. Obviously he just couldn't let it go.

Never could. His brain is so twisted. He even ranted and raved about me to a mutual friend... and she just looked at me and shook her head... . said to me... "you've just got to get out, he's not gonna change, and your life will be hell".

I'm out!


Previous relationships ---- threw that in my face all the time about my 1st marriage, and that I was divorced, and that my 1st H knew what he was doing by getting out.  I divorced my first, he cheated on me.

Letting things go ----- didn't you know that was our job?   We were supposed to let things go that they said 5 minutes ago, but they will bring up something from years ago, that you never even thought would bother them, they never said anything at all about it, but now it was WW3 over it, and you are still trying to remember what they are even talking about. 

I'm glad you out ! 

L

[Soulsisters]

jynx,

I just read all of your posts.  what a nightmare huh?  Isn't it crazy how all the stories mirror one another in one way or another?I too wish that I would have a clue so much earlier before I became so lost.  It is definitely a struggle to get over what has happened.  I too am divorce, my marriage was 20 years.  I almost was able to hold on until my sons were out of high school, but I broke 3 years too soon.

The thing I think about sometimes is that I was so accustomed to the way I lived and behaved around him that I actually may have made it that long if I didn't have a huge panic attack.  My sons are with him and blame me as well as the entire community.  How did your kids deal after you left?  I kids have been victims of parental alienation and I have no idea if I can fix it.  It scares the hell out of me.  Ugh

the other thing that you said that I lived with every single day, was the fights or the verbal lashings that were so intense and one sided on his part, to have him pretend like it never happened.  His parents both behave in this way and it is frightening that they think that there were no consequences to such behavior.  I am scared my kids will act that way as adults and I pray that maybe they have enough of me in them not to behave this way towards their spouses.  

this place is great and it definitely helps take some of the crazy out of our heads.  I am in a relationship and I do find myself more edgy and defensive, I am so determined to not be treated as I was that I am oversensitive.

I find other parts so very easy though.  I am not afraid to be myself and I can tell him anything without fear.  You too will find someone.  He also listens to all of my drama about my kids and x with only empathy and no judgments or criticisms.  I think most normal people are like that, we have just had such a long journey of not  normal.  

Hang in there, we will all beat these demons at some point.  

[jynx]

the kids----- that's one of the hardest things to get over.  What my ex did was to all of a sudden be the father to them that always wanted, after I left.  I did make it to when my kids went to college.  Now for the first time in their lives they had a father who doted on them.  He would act so sad with them about everything, that they just wanted to make him feel better.  He actually did turn them away from me. 

Hang in there though, they will see through all of this and they will come back to you.  I'm still waiting, but there has been much improvement.

[mgl210]

That is the one thing that terrifies me... If she and I did get back together, get married and then have kids... . I can be strong for others, but I would feel absolutely horrible for my kids if my ex kept popping in and out of their lives, like she has with me. I can honestly say that if she and I did work out. I would strongly be against the idea of having kids. As much as I want to be a dad, I don't want to subject anyone to the pain I endure.

MGL

[jynx]

mgl,

I think you would be a terrific dad.  Sometimes I think that we need to really consider what we want.  I didn't know what I was getting into when I got into that.  Think about that though, you have kids, you are connected for life, then you have to worry about how your kids will grow up and deal with things.  I am so happy that you are here and talking about this.  I even know back then, I was seeing some really weird sh!t, but I didn't know what I was getting myself into. 

It really does get worse and worse, and the rages get worse and longer.  My wish for you is a 2 way r/s.  Not that where you are just wishing and hoping to be acknowledged and loved, and then you give up on even wanted to be loved, then you will just accept her caring for you, then you give up on that, and you start to feel like you are in a straight jacket with duck tape on your mouth, and she doesn't see you, doesn't hear you, and you begin to feel like you don't even exist.  I felt that many times

[mgl210]

Jinx,

Thanks for the positive reinforcement. I like to think that possibly I would be a good dad. Without sounding conceited. I like to think I have a very good heart and a good understanding and nurturing personality to be one. I just worry that what if... I know that is a big what if, but what if she and I did work out. She always would say that she can't wait much longer to have kids. She has Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome and according to her( I haven't read much on it) that the older you get, the more difficult it is to have kids. I suppose its true, but like I said I haven't really read much about the subject. 

My kids would probably be the only thing that would keep me sane if she and I did get married and have kids. I would probably be at work crying all the time, but in the end when I got home, I would strive to let them know that no matter how much their mom is not around, that I loved them and that if they need anything that they could come to me. I believe a good family is one of balance between both parents. Like my late father was to my mom. She used to have a really bad temper(okay, who am I kidding? she still does.), but he would always be the one that would keep her calm through all the bad stuff that my sister and I would do to incur that wratch.

Thanks Jinx... . Thanks for being there. Sorry, if I took away from your original post. Its nice to be around good people, and the sad thing is, a lot of my friends don't want to hear about her. The one that doesn't mind hearing about her has nothing but negative stuff to say about her, and he still tries to be neutral for the most part. I've lost a lot of great friends because of her... .

MGL

[jynx]

Hey, don't worry about the original post, because each and every response I get here, explains very clearly what I went through.

I did a quick search on polycystic ovarian syndrome.  If she has already stated that she wants children, hate to say this, but she will do what it takes to do that.  One of the reasons for it, is because of their own feeling of abandonment and it is a way to have you hanging around forever.  If you recycle and go back, you use protection, don't believe her. 

My kids didn't see a lot of what I went through.  When my ex would start to go after the kids, I did engage him so that his anger was directed at me, and not them.  Then since he hated me, he was sucking up to them and buying them things.  Worked well for me, I would have heard it anyway, but he was being nice to them.

OK, so you recycle, you get married, she will want that child, you will give in.  What happens if you divorce, and the court gives her 50/50 custody?

Can you imagine that, and then she might see you in them, and since she hates you, she hates them?

I can't tell you not to recycle.  Guess I'm not familiar with that term that much because I was married.  Guess for me I would have called it another chance at the marriage, which turned out to be about another 20 chances at the marriage per year.

I think I kept giving chance after chance after chance just to I guess get validation, but that stopped, I think in the end, I just wanted to feel like he knew I even existed. 

There is no shame in trying again, your eyes are open now, and you have us to talk to.  It makes a world of difference to be able to talk about it, then for it to just keep going over and over in your mind, until it totally consumes you.

I'm learning a lot more about myself from each and every response.

Thanks for being here, and thanks for responding

[mgl210]

Jinx

Thanks for being so supportive and encouraging and NON judgemental. I appreciate it very much. I told you, I am scared of having kids with her for the pure fact of what you said.

I have strongly believed that kids should have parents that support and encourage them to be the best that they can be. My own parents as much as I love them and all, were too busy for my sister and I and growing up, didn't have much time to really spend with us. My mom was always working(she is now retired) and my father died before he could really retire. I guess I'm lucky though, that as much as they didn't spend time with us. I still knew that they love me and that I do have that encouragement, even though I sometimes doubt it at times.

If I had kids with her and custody was given 50/50? Wow, that would be extreme hell(forgive my french) for them. I wouldn't be so worried about myself going through the ups and downs, as much as them going through it. If I am having such a difficult time of it, then just only imagine what they would go through with me having to explain to them. Yeah mom is off her rocker, but she still loves you... when they will need to see that proof day in and day out... .

Thanks so much for your advice. Like I've said before, I wish I could talk to my mom about the situation. But being the only boy, I am told to man up and don't take it so seriously... .

SIGH... Thanks though

MGL

[Inside]

Its nice to be around good people, and the sad thing is, a lot of my friends don't want to hear about her. The one that doesn't mind hearing about her has nothing but negative stuff to say about her, and he still tries to be neutral for the most part. I've lost a lot of great friends because of her... .

Mgl210, I can relate.  …and though some of those friends introduced us… I should have heeded the advice of my coworkers and family.  But I didn’t – so I got to experience pain X’s 7  …ya don’t want to go there…

You’d likely be a great Dad, but I’m afraid you’d also have to be their Mom.  In her day, my uexBPDgf tried, she even had boyfriends offering to be her boys’ Father, good guys I’m sure.  But those kids needed more.  And since their mother couldn’t even remain a wife or mate …she not only couldn’t be a nurturing and responsible mother, she drove away one dad and several potentials.  A divorced or separated husband with partial custody or visitation rights could very well be as good as it gets.  Your kids deserve more!

Lose her – period   And find a healthy woman, fall in love the real way (slow and steady) … and things will naturally progress from there.  Otherwise, you’d be marrying an illusion, a lie; at best, someone (if she actually stayed around) who’d have the entire household walking on eggshells – ouch!  Also, you’d not be doing your progeny any good by polluting their gene pool with BPD …as the latest research I’ve seen has this looking more genetic than trauma induced…

I rarely get angry around here …and am likely too supportive … but you’re scaring me with talk of marrying BPD.  I know, there are threads devoted to those seeking or choosing this path …I’ve posted on them, but in the end, and true to form – there will be a seventh dumping – guaranteed.  And, if after the tenth … she’s had your child… would there be an 11th recycle... ? 

Me and mine were agreeably too old for kids, thus I had only to consider how much “I” could continue to tolerate, and if she’d ever recover.  I couldn’t, and she’s shown no signs of recovery.  Do you feel it fair to bring an innocent being into a situation as unstable as BPD?  …I’d written off marriage at recycle 5, living together at 6… and apparently even association at number 7… 

Get past her, get over to L4 and let’s pull away from this crap for good!  Tuff talk, I know - but this time I plan to walk the walk

[mgl210]

Jinx,

You really are too nice to me. I just saw your comment about how you feel I am too nice. I get told that a lot by various people... . Thanks again for your support. Believe it or not, I could never really get into football. It just bores me to no end... .

Yeah you are right about the possibility of kids would need both a mom and a dad. I've always been called a mom by my female friends. I tend to be more nurturing then a guy would and have more maternal instincts than I do male instincts.

Inside,

I don't know. I mean, I know what you are saying is right and what not, but I feel so weird without her. I feel as if someone took my heart, squashed on it a few times, and then said here... This is what remains.  I have a hard time meeting females that actually would be willing to give a good ol commitment with me a chance. I am not saying I am a bad guy. Its just a lot of females are superficial and want a hot looking guy who earns the fence and then some. I am not either. I make a modest income, and well I am no casanova... .

Thanks to you both... I appreciate your support and guidance more than words can ever say...

MGL

[jynx]

Mgl,

Do you know how much I hate that saying that you should man up and don't take it so seriously.  Why is it that men aren't supposed to talk about their feelings.  World would be a much better place if you would.  

Just know you can talk to me or to anyone on this board and we all appreciate your thoughts and your words.  

It's really hard ending one of these r's.  I've been there for over 27 years  , so I do know.  And even when it was ending I didn't want it to end.  I don't even know what I was holding on for, I think it was just so that I knew I existed.  But I did exist.  And I do exist.  

I remember some forums that I went on, verbal abuse, I became embarrassed to even post there because I figured I wasn't moving as fast as I should, or whatever.  I stopped posting.  I don't want you to ever do that.  I care about you.  I'll be here for you, whether you do the 7th, 8th or whatever.  I'll be here to catch you.  

I got your back here.  Now if you ever want me to go into how crazy I got because of all this, I'll be glad to tell you, even though it is quite embarrassing.  

[mgl210]

Jinx

Thanks for being supportive and being there for me. I don't know how I could ever repay you for your kindness.

I agree with you. My mom always tells me that whenever she sees me moping about something. She's like oH come on, your a man not a boy... I hate it and would never say that to anyone...

Thanks for everything. If you want to share your story, you are more than welcome to. I won't ever tell you what to do, unless I really knew for a fact that it was for your bests interests... .

Gosh thanks again for not being judgemental on me

MGL

[jynx]

Jinx,

You really are too nice to me. I just saw your comment about how you feel I am too nice. I get told that a lot by various people... . Thanks again for your support. Believe it or not, I could never really get into football. It just bores me to no end... .

Yeah you are right about the possibility of kids would need both a mom and a dad. I've always been called a mom by my female friends. I tend to be more nurturing then a guy would and have more maternal instincts than I do male instincts.

Inside,

I don't know. I mean, I know what you are saying is right and what not, but I feel so weird without her. I feel as if someone took my heart, squashed on it a few times, and then said here... This is what remains.  I have a hard time meeting females that actually would be willing to give a good ol commitment with me a chance. I am not saying I am a bad guy. Its just a lot of females are superficial and want a hot looking guy who earns the fence and then some. I am not either. I make a modest income, and well I am no casanova... .

Thanks to you both... I appreciate your support and guidance more than words can ever say...

MGL

MGL,

I know how you feel, I felt like that a lot of times, felt like the only thing in me was my bones, and skin that hung on top of that, there wasn't a heart there, there was a heart there, but it was so broken, so torn apart, I almost felt like the strawman in the Wizard of Oz.  I needed my heart back in one piece again.  I needed to feel some love.  I would sit there on the couch, and I wasn't even sure if I would be able to get up and walk, I didn't want to.  I would go to sleep and hope that I didn't wake up, but I did, and I would curse the day because I did wake up, and that pain and emptiness was so much inside me that I couldn't bear it anymore.  

I needed that love so bad that I thought I would die.  I wanted to die.  

The thing here is that you need to love yourself.  You can never love another person until you love yourself.  Your fill yourself up with this, and whatever is left over, give it to someone else.  

I started to hate myself, I mean really hate myself.  So with that, what could I possibly give to another person?

My own self hatred?  So I am now working on loving myself, so that one day I can share that with someone else.  

Who says that you are not a hot looking man?  You are to many people.  I thought myself to be so unattractive, it's because thats how I felt about myself.  Also, you know when I was in HS, oh yeah, the girls always wanted the bad boys.  Well I married one of those.  That lasted for less then a year.  Women are looking for mature men, with feelings, who treat them right.  You seem to be one of those guys

[mgl210]

HAHA!

Women(alot of them at least) want a man with six pack abs. A great smile and a six figure income. I try to be a good friend and can only hope that women would see that instead of taking one look at my picture and being like Oh he's not my type... .

You are right about the loving yourself first and foremost. I read a book in hs called love tactics and it mentioned the same thing. I agree with you though... I am slowly learning to love myself despite all this bs that is going on. I do hate myself that i let it fall apart again, and I take it very personal that it has. I feel as if I didn't live up to my end of the bargain... .

Thanks again for everything

Mgl

[jynx]

I don't want a guy with six pack abs.  I want a guy that loves me and wants to be around me, and enjoys doing things with me, even if it is just a walk on the beach, someone who might just enjoy flower gardens, or a movie.  Someone that encourages me, enriches my life. 

I bought a foreclosure, don't need a mansion.  A trailer would have been ok with me, if the person I was with cared about me and loved me.  Money doesn't mean anything.  Nothing at all. 

Don't hate yourself because you think the r/s fell apart because of you.  It didn't.  I know how you can take it personally, I did also, after all, I am a perfectionist.  Don't want to scare you away, I gave up my perfectionism, couldn't deal with that anymore.  As a matter of fact I like myself better now without that perfectionism. 

A little story about me.  I am a perfectionist. (or was).  I moved in with friends of mine when I left my marriage.  They have a son, he has autism.  He was a perfectionist, and he idolized me.  When he would do something wrong or not right, he would go into a tantrum, seizures... .   Well he always wanted to help me, because everything I did was perfect.  I make mistakes, we all do.  No one ever saw them, because I quickly covered them up.  I allowed this person to see my mistakes.  I would point out all my mistakes.  I told him, now help me try to fix it.  It helped him, and it helped me.  I no longer had to feel that I had to be perfect or make everything better. 

Oh, btw, I am sure you have a great smile.  Just need you to start using it.  It took me a really long time to be able to smile again.