Maybe they change..over years, decades..

[Depression = 72% of members]

Just wanted to share something nice.

My mom I think was/is BPD. While I get frustrated with her at times, she now is in her late 60's, and as I look back she's much more calm now. Much less reactive.

    I'm really thankful for that. Not only for me, but for her, and also to see someone change. I figure that means all this work I'm doing, and you people do, can mean change.

[LivingLearning]

Just wanted to share something nice.

My mom I think was/is BPD. While I get frustrated with her at times, she now is in her late 60's, and as I look back she's much more calm now. Much less reactive.

    I'm really thankful for that. Not only for me, but for her, and also to see someone change. I figure that means all this work I'm doing, and you people do, can mean change.

[charred]

My mother has changed too, she is older and has less energy. She used to argue with me, do things that seemed planned/plotted to piss me off. I look back at all my clothes growing up... . we had a lot of money, but she would buy me something expensive that sucked rather than something inexpensive that I liked... every time. It was all passive-aggressive hostility, but stuff no one would grasp or help me with or even see as a problem. Now she posts things on FB that irritate me. At least two "pass this on to 10 people or you will have bad luck" or "send to five and be blessed" each day. She posts religious stuff... . but was always anti-church. Anyway... like anyone, they run down a bit.

My exBPDgf changed as well. In her 20's she was mostly a sweet girl with a touch of BPD when she felt threatened in a r/s... by 50... she is a BPD master manipulator, heartless, cruel and embarrassing. Her father... when I asked how she has been all the intervening years said: "Same as she was, only more so!"

Without serious professional help, they don't get better... . the behavior loop they are stuck in continues... they go from person to person looking for a magic bullet to take care of their problems... then decide the person should be shot... and move on to the next one. Over time, they can get much more skillful if they are so inclined, in reading people and manipulating them... . but it is the personality they have. If you have an animal that is abused when it is little and gets skittish... they might get a little better, but usually they stay pretty skittish from then on... . have trust issues.

I am sure if you ask any of them, they have FB pages with stories of how well they are doing, and would say they are doing more wonderfully than you... . but its hard to trust things from such an unreliable source.  I think for the most part... except for the natural slowing that comes with age... they tend to stay the same. The sleeping around thing probably drops off, from lack of opportunity more than anything else... . don't know for sure.

[Tausk]

Yes, some of the data shows that as some BPD's age, they become less emotionally volatile.  However, that does not necessarily mean that they ever learn empathy, self awareness, or take responsibility for their actions.  It does not mean that they can change inside, learn from their mistakes, or even remember their transgressions.

From what I've seen the confabulation or complete amnesia with respect to the transgressions over the course of their life can become even more distorted from the truth as people with BPD age.   Those that manage to stay married, are often in bitter loveless unions where neither party is happy but both parties are too afraid to leave.  Those that are alone, move to the hermit stage, where they become creepy cat ladies or cranky old men who yell at kids on their lawn.

But nowhere do I find real joy, connection, or self awareness.  It's so very sad.  It's not a judgement on their character.  Just a statement of the disorder.  Sadness.

For your mother, can you ask her about an incident from her past that she was clearly in transgression, and she will say "yes, I was wrong in that case.  I should have done something different. I'm sorry.  If I had the chance to do it differently, I would.  What can I do now to make up for what I did then?"  

When a person does not have the ability to make the above statement, then there is no real hope to grow into a responsible adult.  

And the same is true for those who successfully go through treatment such as DBT and have their symptoms go in remission.  Recovery from BPD is not the same as recovery from something such as addiction.  Because of the lack of self, it's questionable if there is anything to recover.  A pwBPD whose symptoms are in remission, still my have almost no ability to take responsibility, no ability to empathize with another, may still have very limited ability for object constancy, and may not have any concept of self.

But thankfully, maybe they can survive this life, maybe they won't look for the best knife to cut themselves, and maybe they won't damage another person quite as badly.

Sadness

[santa]

Hypothetically, it would take a huge chunk of your life to find out whether or not a particular BPD "gets better" or not. And the odds are that they won't. Is it really worth it to try? Especially when the damage they do to you could destroy you.

It's like calling a timeout with one second left in a tie game to try to kick a 60 yard field goal with your backup kicker. Yeah, maybe the stars will align and it will go in. It's probably not going to though. And there's a decent chance that the other team's deep man catches it and takes it back for a touchdown that costs you the game.

[Tausk]

Hello LL:  Just as clarification.  I was not meaning to disparage your relationship with your mother in anyway.  I'm happy that you are able to recognize some of your dynamics and happy for your that you seem to be able to communicate better.  And thank you for sharing.  My mother also has symptoms of BPD, but she has calmed tremendously, and my time with her as I try my best to support her is far less painful than as a child.

I just write what my opinion regarding pwBPD changing because I, and know many on this board, still harbor malignant hope that my ex can and will change.  It's that kind of malignant hope that kept me in a destructive pattern for five years, and has taken me two to even clear my head about the waters of denial and despair.

The denial was simply that my ex was in a phase and could be helped into change.  Limerence only extinguishes when hope dies.  Limerence in my case is a cancer that is fed by my malignant hope that she will finally get it, she will take responsibility, she will realize how she hurt me, how she was wrong, and she will change into the idealized mirror that I wanted from the start     

I can hope and pray that she will change.  But I must have the radical acceptance that she never ever will change on the inside.  Not necessarily because she won't but in reality because she can't.

In peace and support,

T

[myself]

I've heard from people in her past that she hasn't changed yet.

She could have tried harder with me, but she didn't.

I'll see my own progress, but I won't know of hers if any.