After a year apart

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Hi, it´s been a while since I´ve posted here, but kept reading.

A year ago, my exuBPDgf abruptally ended our r/s after a small disagreement. It was the second time she did that. I always had some doubt about her having BPD, because she doens´t show rage, and she never was in an intense honeymoon phase, just small fragments of happiness (which obviously were followed by extreme anxiety and doubts about us). I even let myself doubt about us, because of her doubts from the beginning.

She´s very socially withdrawn, to the point that she says that she doesn´t need anyone, doesn´t want closeness, etc... But this alternates with times when she complains a lot about being lonely, not being able to relate and build ties, of no one understanding her. I think she´s a high functioning, waif/hermit type of BPD.

We´ve been together for a year, before the b/u a year ago. Only then she started sharing with me that inside her she felt permanently angry, frustrated and criticizing everybody.

I think she must have uBPD, it´s all too similar to what everyone posts here. Anyway, this last year we only met twice, and both were great moments, of intimate, sincere, pshysically attracted, all beautiful. But she always had a profound doubt about me being the love of her life, she feels that there´s something lacking, that she´s afraid of not feeling an intense passion, of not living a true romance, etc., and after both these encounters she went N/C aggressively, with little explanations, refusing any communication.

I´ve accepted the fact that she´s free to choose what she wants, and tried to not react to this with complain, accusations, etc., and this seems to have made her feel secure to send messages now and then, to the point where she told me that she still thinks that we could have a future together. However, the last time she disappeared, a month ago, I felt like I was fed up with that. I felt that I was just having little crumbles, fragments, of what should be a true love story, and that it was sick. When she re-established contact, I still didn´t complain and was friendly to her. But then, today, I mentioned that she built a wall around her to keep me out. That led to a honest conversation, which she rarely is willing to have, and we had a long talk about these behaviors of her disappearing the day after we are so close.

She explained that she always feels that she "advanced" to much, and starts to feel very guilty for giving me hope, and can´t cope with me having expectations. Said that she still doesn´t understand if she loves me or if it´s just a compensation for her loneliness and isolation. Said that she doens´t come back because of not having anybody else, it´s because of me, but still she´s afraid of going through the anxiety rollercoaster of attaching to me and keep doubting about her love towards me and go through the pain of disattaching again, which is unbearable to her and she never wants to feel that again in her life.

This time, I didn´t say that I´d be here for her and receive her whenever she wants to come. I said that one thing is to respect her freedom and need of space, and another thing is to be in a disturbed r/s where she only needs me twice a year and then avoids me at all costs. I said that from now on it had to be all or nothing. Either she stands by me, assumes a normal r/s with me, stays with me without running away, or I don´t want more of this and we´ll go NC forever.

Obviously she chose NC. She says that she isn´t ready for any relationship, that she´s got too much work, and that she feels emotionally unstable and is afraid that she´d get worse with me. She says that our r/s is very strange because she always gets really anxious when she approaches me, and she doesn´t know why, if it´s because she doesn´t love me and feels guilty by the proximity, or if it´s because she loves me and gets afraid.

So, I guess this could be the final ending (I´ve been in this board for a year because that´s my will, although I´d accept her back if she showed a 180 degree change). I´m afraid of having made a mistake today, by forcing her to decide, because maybe she was making some progress and my attitude of flexibility could be what she needed. Now she´ll disapear again and for good.

[whatathing]

Hi, it´s been a while since I´ve posted here, but kept reading.

A year ago, my exuBPDgf abruptally ended our r/s after a small disagreement. It was the second time she did that. I always had some doubt about her having BPD, because she doens´t show rage, and she never was in an intense honeymoon phase, just small fragments of happiness (which obviously were followed by extreme anxiety and doubts about us). I even let myself doubt about us, because of her doubts from the beginning.

She´s very socially withdrawn, to the point that she says that she doesn´t need anyone, doesn´t want closeness, etc... But this alternates with times when she complains a lot about being lonely, not being able to relate and build ties, of no one understanding her. I think she´s a high functioning, waif/hermit type of BPD.

We´ve been together for a year, before the b/u a year ago. Only then she started sharing with me that inside her she felt permanently angry, frustrated and criticizing everybody.

I think she must have uBPD, it´s all too similar to what everyone posts here. Anyway, this last year we only met twice, and both were great moments, of intimate, sincere, pshysically attracted, all beautiful. But she always had a profound doubt about me being the love of her life, she feels that there´s something lacking, that she´s afraid of not feeling an intense passion, of not living a true romance, etc., and after both these encounters she went N/C aggressively, with little explanations, refusing any communication.

I´ve accepted the fact that she´s free to choose what she wants, and tried to not react to this with complain, accusations, etc., and this seems to have made her feel secure to send messages now and then, to the point where she told me that she still thinks that we could have a future together. However, the last time she disappeared, a month ago, I felt like I was fed up with that. I felt that I was just having little crumbles, fragments, of what should be a true love story, and that it was sick. When she re-established contact, I still didn´t complain and was friendly to her. But then, today, I mentioned that she built a wall around her to keep me out. That led to a honest conversation, which she rarely is willing to have, and we had a long talk about these behaviors of her disappearing the day after we are so close.

She explained that she always feels that she "advanced" to much, and starts to feel very guilty for giving me hope, and can´t cope with me having expectations. Said that she still doesn´t understand if she loves me or if it´s just a compensation for her loneliness and isolation. Said that she doens´t come back because of not having anybody else, it´s because of me, but still she´s afraid of going through the anxiety rollercoaster of attaching to me and keep doubting about her love towards me and go through the pain of disattaching again, which is unbearable to her and she never wants to feel that again in her life.

This time, I didn´t say that I´d be here for her and receive her whenever she wants to come. I said that one thing is to respect her freedom and need of space, and another thing is to be in a disturbed r/s where she only needs me twice a year and then avoids me at all costs. I said that from now on it had to be all or nothing. Either she stands by me, assumes a normal r/s with me, stays with me without running away, or I don´t want more of this and we´ll go NC forever.

Obviously she chose NC. She says that she isn´t ready for any relationship, that she´s got too much work, and that she feels emotionally unstable and is afraid that she´d get worse with me. She says that our r/s is very strange because she always gets really anxious when she approaches me, and she doesn´t know why, if it´s because she doesn´t love me and feels guilty by the proximity, or if it´s because she loves me and gets afraid.

So, I guess this could be the final ending (I´ve been in this board for a year because that´s my will, although I´d accept her back if she showed a 180 degree change). I´m afraid of having made a mistake today, by forcing her to decide, because maybe she was making some progress and my attitude of flexibility could be what she needed. Now she´ll disapear again and for good.

[In_n_Out]

I am by no means any kind of expert but she doesn't sound BPD to me, just confused about what she wants, is withdrawn and possibly depressed. 

A BPD would of told you how much she loves you and every little thing about you is so precious to her; down to the streaks in your underwear.  She'd of idolized you and then when she felt that you didn't match up to what she wanted or needed, she'd of pushed you overboard with the rest.  She wouldn't tell you that it is something lacking in her that is not making it work - it would of been something that YOU did or said and she would be telling you this only after she had found a replacement and you persisted in contacting her. 

Maybe it's an anxiety disorder or perhaps there's something in a past relationship that she isn't sharing with you that makes bonding and intimacy difficult for her.  Again, I'm no expert and I'm just going off of what I know firsthand about BPD.

I wouldn't beat yourself up by "forcing" her hand.  It sounds like you've given her space and time to decide what it is that she wants from you as far as a r/s goes and if she can't make up her mind what she wants or she just pushes you away, then (IMHO), your only choice is to give her all the space that she needs, stop contacting her and let her sort things out on her own.  If you have to try and convince that a r/s with you is what she wants, she will move in the other direction more and more.  My $.02 at least.

[heartandwhole]

Hi whatathing,

I'm sorry to hear about your doubts, but they are perfectly understandable.  None of us can say if she has BPD, but the behaviors are what they are, and have caused both of you pain.

She says that she isn´t ready for any relationship, that she´s got too much work, and that she feels emotionally unstable and is afraid that she´d get worse with me.

Your asking her to decide was the right thing for you.  You needed some stability and that is a very reasonable thing to ask of a partner.  She said clearly that she can't give you that.  No matter if you had asked or not, she can't give you that.    Be gentle with yourself.  We all think that we could have changed the outcome "if only... . " at some point, but the defense mechanisms can't be controlled by us.

Whatathing, how have you been handling the detachment process?   

[whatathing]

Thank you both for your response.

In_n_out, there are many things very similar to BPD. One thing I´m sure is she has some kind of PD, because she isn´t able to process things like other people, she´s totally imature regarding metacomunication, mind theory, reading people´s emotions, understanding social cues, she´s constantly feeling guilty and undeserving, she´s had eating disorders... . the second time we dated she vomited the hell out of her stomach just because of the anxiety of getting involved with someone.

She´s also very histrionic, dramatic, theatrical... . uses work as a means to distract herself from the anxiety, but hates what she does and doesn´t have any clue of what she wants in life. She spends her time ruminating about the same questions (people that behave wrong, why do people have to get married, etc. - in the last two years, these are the issues that she constantly struggles with), she´s always complaining about her family, she´s on anxiety medication for the last 4 years... . she broke with me twice, said 4 times to me that she felt nothing for me and then came back to have sex with me, and left again... .

BPD is the best match, I think. She even cheated on me once with a guy that started calling her, although we were on NC that time. I consider it emotional cheating, and so she did at the time. But maybe it´s a less severe version, because she has no childhood abuse history. I think it´s a mix of genetics with growing up with a narcissistic mother and am absent father, along with 3 siblings that are excellent students/professionals with whom she compares a lot and feels inferior.

But you´re right about the fact that she never really idealized me. That´s very strange. But I think that she´s so cautious and defensive that in her world, to simply let someone be her boyfriend can be considered as idealization. She only dates if she thinks that he´s the one. But I felt that she constantly tried to find flaws in me to prove her doubts were right and do the self fulfilling profecy of the r/s having to end.

The one thing I also thought about, was Asperger´s. But I´ve read that the emotional and relational reactions differentiated one and the other, and she´s totally focused on relational issues, etc. I think that she´s just too self contained to fully express the inner turmoil like most pwBPD.

Heartandwhole, I think you´re right... . still I feel that if I was perfect, I´d be some kind of free person that wouldn´t make her feel trapped and pressured to make a decision. But I think it was the right thing to do.

The detachment process has been very difficult, but I think that this time I´m very peaceful. I feel something interesting: that I´m whole again, I feel validated and not like someone who´s on the other end of some really important place that I was kicked out from. Now I can feel that the important place to be is where I am, and not where she is. This is a great breakthrough to me Thank you

[Waifed]

I am by no means any kind of expert but she doesn't sound BPD to me, just confused about what she wants, is withdrawn and possibly depressed. 

A BPD would of told you how much she loves you and every little thing about you is so precious to her; down to the streaks in your underwear.  She'd of idolized you and then when she felt that you didn't match up to what she wanted or needed, she'd of pushed you overboard with the rest.  She wouldn't tell you that it is something lacking in her that is not making it work - it would of been something that YOU did or said and she would be telling you this only after she had found a replacement and you persisted in contacting her. 

Maybe it's an anxiety disorder or perhaps there's something in a past relationship that she isn't sharing with you that makes bonding and intimacy difficult for her.  Again, I'm no expert and I'm just going off of what I know firsthand about BPD.

I wouldn't beat yourself up by "forcing" her hand.  It sounds like you've given her space and time to decide what it is that she wants from you as far as a r/s goes and if she can't make up her mind what she wants or she just pushes you away, then (IMHO), your only choice is to give her all the space that she needs, stop contacting her and let her sort things out on her own.  If you have to try and convince that a r/s with you is what she wants, she will move in the other direction more and more.  My $.02 at least.

Waifs are a totally different animal.  They are more reserved and I believe that they lack the confidence to confront sometimes (fear rejection) so they would just prefer to stay NC.  My ex never begged me when we would break up for short periods.  She would stay NC when we fought.  No raging, Didn't openly criticize me ever.  It was subtle destruction of self worth.  She never cursed at me once in 3 years.

[Waifed]

Thank you both for your response.

In_n_out, there are many things very similar to BPD. One thing I´m sure is she has some kind of PD, because she isn´t able to process things like other people, she´s totally imature regarding metacomunication, mind theory, reading people´s emotions, understanding social cues, she´s constantly feeling guilty and undeserving, she´s had eating disorders... . the second time we dated she vomited the hell out of her stomach just because of the anxiety of getting involved with someone.

She´s also very histrionic, dramatic, theatrical... . uses work as a means to distract herself from the anxiety, but hates what she does and doesn´t have any clue of what she wants in life. She spends her time ruminating about the same questions (people that behave wrong, why do people have to get married, etc. - in the last two years, these are the issues that she constantly struggles with), she´s always complaining about her family, she´s on anxiety medication for the last 4 years... . she broke with me twice, said 4 times to me that she felt nothing for me and then came back to have sex with me, and left again... .

BPD is the best match, I think. She even cheated on me once with a guy that started calling her, although we were on NC that time. I consider it emotional cheating, and so she did at the time. But maybe it´s a less severe version, because she has no childhood abuse history. I think it´s a mix of genetics with growing up with a narcissistic mother and am absent father, along with 3 siblings that are excellent students/professionals with whom she compares a lot and feels inferior.

But you´re right about the fact that she never really idealized me. That´s very strange. But I think that she´s so cautious and defensive that in her world, to simply let someone be her boyfriend can be considered as idealization. She only dates if she thinks that he´s the one. But I felt that she constantly tried to find flaws in me to prove her doubts were right and do the self fulfilling profecy of the r/s having to end.

The one thing I also thought about, was Asperger´s. But I´ve read that the emotional and relational reactions differentiated one and the other, and she´s totally focused on relational issues, etc. I think that she´s just too self contained to fully express the inner turmoil like most pwBPD.

Heartandwhole, I think you´re right... . still I feel that if I was perfect, I´d be some kind of free person that wouldn´t make her feel trapped and pressured to make a decision. But I think it was the right thing to do.

The detachment process has been very difficult, but I think that this time I´m very peaceful. I feel something interesting: that I´m whole again, I feel validated and not like someone who´s on the other end of some really important place that I was kicked out from. Now I can feel that the important place to be is where I am, and not where she is. This is a great breakthrough to me Thank you

My ex and I had a rather tame honeymoon phase and the affection was consistent for 3 years.  She totally feared abandonment the past couple of months because I told her I was going to leave but her main issue throughout the relationship was fear of engulfment.  It was almost debilitating for her.  She would sleep with me almost every night yet would leave nothing at my home.  It was nuts.  She was totally Love Avoidant. 

[Turkish]

She explained that she always feels that she "advanced" to much, and starts to feel very guilty for giving me hope, and can´t cope with me having expectations. Said that she still doesn´t understand if she loves me or if it´s just a compensation for her loneliness and isolation.

That is interesting. Mine wrote something similar to these thoughts in her journal about me. "I wasn't ready for this relationship!" and "I just want to run into your arms, but is it out of love, or out of need?"

Yet at the same time she fell in love (need) with the guy she was sneaking around with on me. So disordered... . This is probably correct, they really don't know what they want.

[winston72]

Turkish... . it is, at a minimum, an extreme level of immaturity or irresponsibility to say that after having given birth to two children with you.  That comment might make sense for a short term dating episode, but not the life she had with you.

Whatathing, that set of behaviors from your ex seems to describe someone with a strong set of BPD traits.  In any event, they are behaviors and reactions that make any kind of enduring, intimate relationship very difficult, if not impossible.  BPD is not a virus that has a uniform set of primary symptoms.  And, of course, none of us are able to offer a definitive diagnosis.  I think it is a very helpful, even critical filter for understanding the experiences that drove us to this site.

Your request for a level of continuity and emotional support in the relationship was very reasonable.  It would not be much of a relationship without it!  Your request for it did not create her fear and struggle; it simply brought her inner conflict to the attention of both of you.  Your request revealed that she is not prepared to be in a relationship.

There was no mistake in saying what you want; what you need; what constitutes a relationship for you.  You did not create her response... . you just invited her to tell you is going on inside her.

It is hard to accept that she is not capable of being in the kind of relationship that you would like... . shoot, in a relationship at all!  What you asked for is really the minimum.  But, why is it hard to accept?  Because you are hoping she will be different?  Suddenly different?  You are seeing her for who you want her to be, not who she really is?  These are all things I do!

It seems to me that you have a pretty clear read on the state of affairs between the two of you; and your request aided that process for both of you.  The next phase for you is processing what that means.  bpdfamily.com.

[whatathing]

Waifed, thank you for sharing that, it's very important to me to know about people with similar traits. I always feel that she's a different kind of BPD, because of these different nuances from the majority of the stories in this forum. I forgot to mention that she has an extreme engulfment fear too, I think that her extreme social avoidance comes from a mix of engulfment, anger, and an extreme lack of trust in people, which I don't know where it comes from. I can only guess it comes from dealing with her narcissistic mother, and from problems in understanding others intentions and emotions. A by-product of a poor personality structure, maybe.

Turkish, thank you too, for the same reasons. Yes, I think that she doesn't have a clue of what she wants... .

Winston72, you are so right im everything you said. The important thing is that she's emotionally imature and unable to have a r/s. It's very hard to accept that, because she's so familiar to me, and not only because of reflecting myself, there's more than that. I'm really sad for losing her presence in my life. I think I do the same things you say you do, wanting her to be different, etc... . And thank you for validating what I told her. I was unsure about it, but the way you say it it feels logical and natural, to need some stability and asking for it.

It's good to be able to come here and receive all your feedbacks and perspectives.

[woke up]

Whatathing,

After reading a book on attachment styles.  I came to the conclusion that my uxBPDgf was an anxious-avoidant attachment styled individual.  This attachment style is very rare.  Seems to me many pwBPD fall into that category.  In this attachment style they want to get close and have a fantasy love that will complete them, yet they are avoidant at the same time because they fear being enmeshed.  Thus they follow a pattern of push pull behavior.  I believe that is also the reason why LDR work better with BPDs because the distance balances this attachment style.  Sounds to me like your GF exhibits that pattern.

[winston72]

Wokeup... . lots of insight to be found in reflecting upon attachment styles.  How people attach and how they are able attach to primary caregivers in their early lives seems to be part and parcel of the behavioral pattern of people with BPD traits. 

Whatathing... . it is sad!  My heart aches in the same way... . it is just sad, sad, sad to lose her presence in my life.  I agree.  I remind myself that I have limits and I cannot tolerate the pain and frustration indefinitely, so there will be the loss of her in my life.  Ugh.  But, here I am as well.  And, in time, the sadness is okay.  As time goes on, the sadness helps me to define what I want and what will make me happy.

[nolisan]

Good point wrt anxious/avoidant attachment style. I experienced this early in my r/s.

She had been the one that cautiously but persistently started to show up in my life. Finally I asked her if she wanted to start dating. It had been many years since I had been in a r/s and I desperately wanted it to work. My style was anxious/insecure (afraid of abandonment).

Equaled a push/pull r/s - we would get close, she would run (feeling engulfed) and I would feel abandoned. It all goes back to our childhoods.

Hmmm ... . wonder why is didn't work out.

[myself]

Equaled a push/pull r/s - we would get close, she would run (feeling engulfed) and I would feel abandoned.

Same here. I would pursue her, to keep our r/s intact, get my needs met, and help with hers. Pursuing her would make her run even more, which she used as another reason to stay away. When I didn't pursue, she said I didn't care. That there was always someone else who would. She sought the attention but when she got it she didn't want it for long. She puts herself out there enough to interact with people but ends up turning on them, driving them away. Using people as fuel to repeat her patterns.

[winston72]

Uh, oh... . myself and nolisan... . you have described the essence of my relationship; my approach and vulnerabilities, and hers as well.  But, oh how it felt so intuitive and natural... . and how I miss it on occasion.  Life is strange.  Healing to follow, I hope!

Thank you for sharing your succinct summaries.  Seems so clear and concise in summary, so frantic, confusing and dismaying when in the midst of it all.

[nolisan]

The irony for me was that I looked up "push/pull" very early on. The refs stated these r/s's rarely last. Yet I keep pursueing ... .

"Ours would be different - love would solve everything".

[winston72]

Yes, and I felt and thought the same.  And, I did not fully believe that love would conquer all, but that communication, patience and love would enable a fulfilling future... . I underestimated the level of her issues and I vastly underestimated mine as well.   So... . here I am!

[myself]

^^Everything you just said, Winston72. That's our story.

I would build myself up, and she would fall apart. When I fell apart, she was gone.

These relationships were never balanced, were they?

[winston72]

They were not at all balanced.  At all!  And, I think the "imbalance" was very attractive to me.  In the deep recesses of my inner life, I thought this was a good thing... . I was drawn to it.  I have been reading the White Knight Syndrome this week, and it certainly applied to me.  I remember consciously thinking that her need for me and my ability to fill those needs was a good thing.  I clearly thought that such a dynamic would fulfill both of our goals and would be consistent with our core personalities.  Actually, as I type this, I was correct!  It was just that the result was terrible! 

I am struggling with fully grasping the concept of balance in a romantic relationship.  I do not have an inner or intuitive sense of what they would look like or feel like.  Very foreign to me. 

[whatathing]

Whatathing,

After reading a book on attachment styles.  I came to the conclusion that my uxBPDgf was an anxious-avoidant attachment styled individual.  This attachment style is very rare.  Seems to me many pwBPD fall into that category.  In this attachment style they want to get close and have a fantasy love that will complete them, yet they are avoidant at the same time because they fear being enmeshed.  Thus they follow a pattern of push pull behavior.  I believe that is also the reason why LDR work better with BPDs because the distance balances this attachment style.  Sounds to me like your GF exhibits that pattern.

This is her, Woke up. You´re absolutely right, and we even live in different cities, 3 hours away. I remember that one of the times that I felt her more affectionate and close, was when she was in vacation in a foreign country and we talked on skype. I remember feeling "whoa, why isn´t she like this when she´s here?"

Whatathing... . it is sad!  My heart aches in the same way... . it is just sad, sad, sad to lose her presence in my life.  I agree.  I remind myself that I have limits and I cannot tolerate the pain and frustration indefinitely, so there will be the loss of her in my life.  Ugh.  But, here I am as well.  And, in time, the sadness is okay.  As time goes on, the sadness helps me to define what I want and what will make me happy.

You are in a very similar situation, Winston72... . That helps me too, remembering the frustration and pain, how I was being "neglected" in this r/s. But it´s still sad... . I´m glad time will help. I have a theory: when we say that they weren´t who we supposed they were, I think that´s not accurate. I think they were, in part, who we thought they were, but due to PD, they were also the opposite and other things to, and what makes us so confused is the paradoxical mixing, and not that they weren´t who we thought they were. They were partly who they seemed sometimes, but then they contradicted that part by being other things that were not compatible with that. And I think that maybe some of us had parents who exhibited the same paradox, so we felt challenged in a similar way with our pwBPDs than we were with our parents, and we felt the same frustration and confusion due to the same kind of paradoxical behavior.

But, oh how it felt so intuitive and natural... . and how I miss it on occasion.  Life is strange.  Healing to follow, I hope!

I am struggling with fully grasping the concept of balance in a romantic relationship.  I do not have an inner or intuitive sense of what they would look like or feel like.  Very foreign to me. 

On the spot twice again! Our experiences are all so similar. Even today I was trying to visualize and feel how it should be to be attracted, enthusiastic but not dependent, not self invalidating, etc.

Thank you all