Need some fast advice about leaving

[justaboutdone]

My wife and I met my T friday morning because after her being so unhappy in our marriage, she wanted out.  I was personally very happy that she was choosing to get out because for so long I did not have the courage to face the consequences from her.  The T said I could find a place and try a separation.  The T explained how communicating is so important during a separation and you really don't want this to goto the lawyers because it will be very expensive.  My wife was very agreeable to all this and Friday afternoon my wife and I talked and she said she doesn't want it to be like she is kicking me out and for me to take what time I need to find a place.

Fast forward to saturday and today, and my wife is pulling all kinds of FOG.  She is saying everything imaginable to make me feel guilty and this is all my fault, she is still in love with me, if I leave then she is moving to another state 12 hours away with her parents.  She says I will see the kids one weekend a month, and she is going to make this "VERY VERY UGLY!"

So now what do I do?  Make up with her until I have a better plan?  I don't feel good at all about leaving her with our 6 year old twins because she can barely handle life let alone being a single parent.  I don't want to move out and then her play games with the kids and use them against me.  How will the kids handle at that age all of the stuff she is going to say to them about daddy has left the family because he doesn't love us.  I love my kids way too much to see them hurt like that and they deserve better than to be told by a mother or father those words.

[elemental]

It's parental alienation. Judges don't like that. And she CAN'T legally take the kids and go much of anywhere. That is called kidnapping and is a federal offense.

Basically, after going through a very damaging and acrimoneous divorce myself... document all of this behavior and words as best you can. Ask for a mediator.

And I am curious what does she propose as a solution? She wants you gone, but if you move out...

[Pearl55]

Has she got a replacement? I think she plays games.

[justaboutdone]

Are you saying if she left for another state that is parental alienation or me moving out for a separation?  I am sure this is only a threat from her to scare me back into the relationship.  Is what she doing not classic BPD?  Fear of abandonment, anger, push-pull?  I am the one to blame for everything and so much that she feels that she needs to move on because I am ruining her life.  So, when I get ready to go she uses FOG to get me stay in the relationship?

To be honest, I am having a really really hard time with this right now.  I have told everyone about her condition and nobody can do anything for me.  I think I am finally out and wham! Back to square one of abuse and feeling stuck.  I mean who uses abuse to keep someone in a relationship?  Screaming! Yelling! Horrible threats that make my stomach sick.  If I loved someone and didn't want them to leave then abuse is the last technique I would be using.

[elemental]

My advice is don't move out until you consult an attorney.

And her moving and taking the kids to another state without going through the legal system IS kidnapping.

To be more clear, you should file for your share of custody. When I divorced, my ex husband had visitation rights of every other weekend, Tuesday and Thursday evenings and 6 weeks in the summer. I had the rest. I was informed that I was not allowed to move out of state, because for the custody for my ex to be enforced, it would make it impossible. And a child does not BELONG to either parent like an object.

I chose to stay right in the town we were already in and the custody arrangement was not particularly followed after a few years. When my son wanted to see his dad or his dad wanted different days or extra time for a vacation, I made it happen for my son. Having his Dad there for him was really important. I was done with the marriage but my kid still had a father.


My current boyfriend, the possible BPD was manipulated into staying in his marriage for years after he wanted out. He was physically abused, bullied, shamed, he felt forced to do things he would never have done. Pure FOG. Fear, obligation, guilt.

Your wife is using it because she has been successfully violating your boundries and getting results. She either needs to relearn to love properly or you need to have very very strong boundries. You are avoiding it sounds, like some sort of offical involvement.

I know a lot of men won't do this, but you did you talk to the folks at the local domestic crisis intervention center? you can call the 800 number and people will be there to help you, just even talk and hear you and offer support.

[justaboutdone]

Your wife is using it because she has been successfully violating your boundries and getting results. She either needs to relearn to love properly or you need to have very very strong boundries. You are avoiding it sounds, like some sort of offical involvement.

She has violated my boundaries for a long time.  If I try to enforce any boundaries I get fierce opposition and it seems always in front of the kids so I give in.  The fierce opposition is unbearable and not worth it.  I would like to get official involvement but she has only hit me like twice. Actually, I did goto to the emergency room once when she slammed the door in my hand five years ago when trying to kick me out. I have told two psychologists our doctor about the physical, verbal, and emotional abuse and I get no where. 

I know a lot of men won't do this, but you did you talk to the folks at the local domestic crisis intervention center? you can call the 800 number and people will be there to help you, just even talk and hear you and offer support.

I have talked to the national domestic abuse hotline and the local crisis center but again they don't offer anything of any help. Maybe because I am a guy?  Actually, they told me I should see a psychologist.  I told them I am.  Oh, well if you have a psychologist they will be able to help you.  I don't know what kind of help I am looking for but I cannot get myself out of this situation alone.

[Debra Meehl, DD, MSW]

Is she willing to get help? If so, there are treatment centers available. I went to one call The Meehl Foundation, and while it did not save my marriage, it did save my life and I am now willing and able to work with my ex on the custody issue without using our son as a tool to harm him.

[ugghh]

JustaboutDone,

I can offer some advice from a guy who left his uBPDw after 25 years and has been in similar position of worrying about the kids and not being part of their lives, etc.  My kids are now 20,18,16.   From my experience the pwBPD will never get better without a serious, committed effort to therapy, which of course most of them will not do because of the BPD.  I will also share the best piece of advice I received, which ironically was from my STBX wife's mother the first time I went down the path of divorce which was after she cheated on me at around 12 years of marriage.   The advice was continue to be the good dad and person that you are and sooner or later the kids will see mom for what she is.

All of that aside, you have some practical and logistical issues that you should probably work out before you consider moving out.  For many years, I let my uBPDw run all over my boundaries, to the point that even my kids would comment about it.  I would usually say, " I have big shoulders, I can handle it."  I always figured it was better for me to absorb the rage rather than my kids, but they saw it all the same.

1 - Get a therapist that is for you and you only - I cannot emphasize enough how much this helped me in preparing and thinking clearly.  It was my D20 who called me every day for about 6 weeks to follow up that finally made me take the time for myself to get the right therapist.  This is not about saving your marriage, this is about saving yourself and keeping your sanity. 

2 - Get a good lawyer - do not operate under the illusion that this will occur cheaply or reasonably.  You need an experienced attorney who has experience with high conflict, personality disordered spouses.  Do not think that you are going to mediate or collaborate in this process or that you and your wife can just work something out and share a lawyer.  Even if not ready to file yet, a good attorney will begin to guide you in the proper preparations to make and what documentation to start collecting.

3 - Breathe - Take a step back and begin to de-escalate the situation.    Once you follow up with steps 1 and 2 you will start to have a sense of a plan and how long it will take to execute that plan.

4 - Find a hobby or something - those of us who get into relationships with pwBPD tend to become more and more isolated from friends and family over time.  We also tend to forget to do things for ourselves that bring enjoyment.

Once you begin to do things for yourself, the FOG will begin clearing a bit.   This will also help you keep your sanity as you begin to prepare.

5 – Be an awesome dad to your kids – and begin writing it down and documenting.  At your kids age they will not have much input in how custody is determined.  But if you have a documented, well organized log of your involvement with their lives it will make your case much stronger.  If you are feeding them breakfast in the morning, taking them to school, coaching them at games, bathing them at night, reading to them etc. – write it all down.  If you have some pictures to go with the journal, even better. 

Even in this supposedly enlightened world, there can still be a bias against the father.  Remember, the standard for the legal system is the best interest of the child.   It is not in the best interest of the children to separate them from an involved parent.

Her threats to make it ugly is just a different variation of the manipulation and control.  It is too keep you under her thumb.

Believe it or not there is light at the end of the tunnel.

[ugghh]

Forgot one thing.  If you are going to stay in the house go to the local office supply store and get a long running digital recorder.  Keep on your person at all times and keep it running when you are around her.  Even when I go to drop my kids off at the STBX house I start mine running a few blocks away in case she comes out.

The purpose is not as much to gather evidence against her as it is to protect you against false charges.