Do high functioning BPD ever get it

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Have any of you experienced a high functioning BPD as they get older? I know the onset is usually around early adulthood, but do their issues continue as they get older? or do they stay a child just in an older body? Have any of you had a BPD that eventually understood they were the problem?

I just want to know if they usually get it, or just get worse through time? or what is your experience with an older high functioning BPD in society?

[Pinoypride18]

Have any of you experienced a high functioning BPD as they get older? I know the onset is usually around early adulthood, but do their issues continue as they get older? or do they stay a child just in an older body? Have any of you had a BPD that eventually understood they were the problem?

I just want to know if they usually get it, or just get worse through time? or what is your experience with an older high functioning BPD in society?

[kft]

Depends what you mean by older. Mine is 34.

It varies. Yes, I have seen him behave EXACTLY like a child. Usually this is more amusing/annoying than threatening. This one time I beat him at Street Fighter he had the most ridiculous overblown reaction (like "NOO!" and running out of the room) on one hand it was a pretty real  ... . on the other it was also pretty funny and he came back all smiles a few minutes later.

Other times he has the maturity and capabilities of a 34 year old, so it's not as if they are always childish. It's mainly about being triggered.

Do they ever get it? I go back and forth on this. I still hope so, but sometimes I wonder. My pwBPD seems to understand there's something mentally wrong, but on the other hand he's drawn to dysfunctional and abusive people precisely because they make that fact less noticeable to himself. If a pwBPD wants to live in denial land, they can usually find the right scenery somewhere regardless of age.

[Pinoypride18]

Mine is 25 y/o so her major BPD traits have recently been coming out. What i mean by older i guess would be adulthood or when they begin their career.

The reason i ask is because mine is graduating college soon, then going to medical school. I know she will continue to act this way in medical school, probably going to sleep around maybe change her career. Im just curious if she will continue to be this child stuck in an adult body. And how her behaviour will affect her as she ages and goes into a field such as medicine.

I was curious about this because i met someone a few days ago who i suspected has a type of personality disorder. She was a lot older, maybe in her late 40's early 50's. But she had a very fantasy like view of love, she would jump from one relationship after the other because her crush was not ready, then her crush being mad at her behaviour, she was single, she liked talking and did not care what i had to say, and seemed really eager to get my attention. Maybe not BPD but she did seem like a teenager stuck in a 50 y/o body.

So im wondering if my ex will eventually turn out the same way. Eventually being by herself because she cannot stay in a healthy relationship.

[kft]

Most likely unfortunately

[waverider]

High functioning very often go through their entire life in denial, often ending up being inwardly bitter towards others, even if they cover it up. Some almost put on a facade that is closer to NPD (overcompensating).

I would say the majority are never diagnosed, enter any treatment, or even have many interactions with the health system, and so as a result are missing from the "stats". The public facades the erect are more convincing and consistent

I think it is common for their BPD only coming to light after the behavior is traced backwards from the consequences of producing low function BPD children (a common result of BPD parenting).

[bruceli]

High functioning very often go through their entire life in denial, often ending up being inwardly bitter towards others, even if they cover it up. Some almost put on a facade that is closer to NPD (overcompensating).

I would say the majority are never diagnosed, enter any treatment, or even have many interactions with the health system, and so as a result are missing from the "stats". The public facades the erect are more convincing and consistent

I think it is common for their BPD only coming to light after the behavior is traced backwards from the consequences of producing low function BPD children (a common result of BPD parenting).

I agree with this wholeheartedly.  The older they get, their high functioning usually get higher and they become even more impossible.  Have seen this with my mom and sister.  My sister has taken this to extraordinary levels.  It will be interesting to see the long term outcome however as waverider has pointed out because both her daughters are not that high functioning.

[unicorn2014]

My pwBPD is in his 50s and he got diagnosed a couple of years ago. He's been a successful business owner and musician. As a result of our relationship he is now on medication and seeking therapy. He is a rarity though.

[joshbjoshb]

Rarity as a unicorn

Well, that's good for you. So happy it's looking upward.

[maxen]

my stbxw is 48 and a university administrator.

High functioning very often go through their entire life in denial

she said i needed therapy, but she's just the way she is

often ending up being inwardly bitter towards others

when mine decided to bolt she revealed only then how much bitterness she had been hoarding. she even cried, just bawling, about things which at the times she brushed off or laughed about.

she also called herself "the queen of bitter, heh".

Some almost put on a facade that is closer to NPD (overcompensating).

she can be toweringly arrogant and after she bolted acted in a sadistically vicious way about her infidelity.

I would say the majority are never diagnosed

check

[or] enter any treatment

check

she did the most emotionally violent and cowardly thing of her life at age 47, and there had been others going back to her 20s. so without intervention, it can get worse.

[unicorn2014]

Rarity as a unicorn

Well, that's good for you. So happy it's looking upward.

Its not perfect.

[pixiecat]

My mother was uBPD, I am pretty certain.  She has changed a lot as she's got older.  Never diagnosed, no therapy and I'm not sure she ever got that she had a problem, but she mellowed/matured a lot and then married someone pretty exceptional about 10/12 years ago and has continued to get better.  She's still a little BPDish, but nothing like she was when I was very young or a teenager even.  There have only been a handful of bad behaviour in the last 10 years.

My high functioning BPDboyfriend knows he has BPD and has (relatively) a lot of self-awareness and insight.  I've never had a relationship with a man who's put this much actual 'relationship work' and effort into a relationship - and I respect him for this.  He knows/accepts that he has been abusive towards me and in all of his past relationships.  He is adamant there must be zero tolerance of abuse.  He is very worried that I tolerate more than I should, has wanted me to go into therapy to work this out.  He is highly motivated to change and to fix his relationship/intimacy problems from their root cause.  There has been progress.  He is in therapy.   

And yet, he is extremely BPD and has massive blind spots about it and can react very badly sometimes to suggesting something is due to BPD.  But we do talk about his problems in relationships, but often without making direct reference to BPD.  We talk about his 'defence reactions' or his problems with boundaries.  There are things that he does (subject of my last post) that he would not admit though.  So it's mixed, and slow.

[VeryFree]

I met mine when she was 30-ish.

Some strange things going on.

The worst behaviour was in the end of our r/s, ten years later. Don't know if the illness was progressing or our r/s tearing apart. Probably both.

But bottomline: allthough we can read everywere that BPD can become milder when aging, there are enough examples that show the opposite.

[GopherAgent]

Interesting topic.

You start out asking about high functioning as a factor. May I suggest you don't get too focused on the "high functioning" thing as a sign of the progression of BPD. There appears to be significant conflicting opinions about this and I have found I've wasted much time and consideration about weather or not my uBPDw is "high" or "low" functioning. As a side note: Do you ever see any references to "low functioning" BPD signs on any of the posts anywhere in the BPD community? I haven't at all. To me it's really dis-regulated functioning almost, but even this consideration is really not relevant to anything dealing with BPD. Sorry, just another distraction from the real question I should focus on. So, now, I don't even spend a single moment thinking about weather or not my possible BPD SO is "high functioning" at all as I find it distracts from the real question of how I must deal with this illness in my own relationship.

I think your focus should be on the part where you ask ":)o they ever understand they were the problem?".

I think you know the answer to this. No... . They don't, and can't possibly understand that they are part of the problem. Every thing you read about BPD and how it "works" in them tells me that this illness is something they don't deal with or recognize as a factor in how they process events and relationships in their lives. They don't even have the ability to even ask themselves this question since to them, everybody else is at fault causing them such destruction and so much PAIN.

Again, far too much time wasted wondering about something that points you away from the real question you must ask yourself.

That is... . "How do I respond to their BPD in my life?" Since I can't change how they view life or respond to it, then I must face this situation differently and respond to her differently so I can survive it and not let it kill me or destroy me as it so desperately tries to do every day. She has a problem she doesn't recognize, so how can she deal with it. Since I can see it, how will I react to the illness... . not her... . so as to make a difference so I can have some sanity and heal from the damage it has already done in my own life.

[maxen]

Do you ever see any references to "low functioning" BPD signs on any of the posts anywhere in the BPD community? I haven't at all.

there are lots of them here.

i'm not invested in the high/low distinction, and the real question is 'how do we deal with the behaviors.' but those who know more than i do from the psychological standpoint assert that there are patterns different enough to warrant the distinction, the most significant being acting out vs acting in (as it's called).

otoh, as pixiecat wrote, there are some who know they have a diagnosis of BPD and know they have a problem with their interpersonal relations, and who are even willing to work on themselves. there are others on other chatrooms, pretty insightful too. see also tami green's youtube videos. but they are a minority.

[waverider]

The major difference between high and low functioning is that low cannot hide they have a problem, with regular public displays of their disorder. There is no hiding they have a mental illness. Inability to work due to conflict/lack of commitment or responsibility. Often living a slovenly existence. Facades of normality break down very quickly. Hence they are not the hidden statistics. Often crying out for help, but often being told  to "get their act together" as a response.

High functioning will always get by and so have no need in their mind to accept they have an illness, and would be horrified to believe so. Being seen to "have their act together" is paramount to them and will resist all attempts to be portayed otherwise.

In simplistic terms it is a measure of ability to cover up the disorder and keeping the skeletons in the closet, including deceiving themselves.

[unicorn2014]

I think eventually the wall is going to come crashing down and people's flaws will be exposed. If you meet a pwBPD who has managed to fake it be careful.

[Theo41]

I've been with my uBPDw for decades. She, and I are "older" folks who act pretty young. Most people are shocked when they find out how old we are. She has become worse in later years as the result of three things:

1. She had a stomach bypass and has lost a lot of weight. (No longer looks like a person with a weight problem.) however, the stress of being a food addict who can't eat because she has a tiny stomach now, causes her to be on edge and very prone to anger of all kinds. Rage comes easily and frequently.

2. She has transferred her addiction to alcohol and goes through a personality change after two drinks. Jeckle and Hyde. Lately she's been dry. Either someone else got to her or she's afraid I will leave permanently.

3. As we get older the systems get weaker, including the nervous system. So she has a harder time controlling herself. Little things provoke anger that shouldn't.

Finally, my wife still seems to be in total denial. I'm sure that on some level she knows. She's very smart and educated and was a high functioning pwBPD during school and her working career, but won't admit that she' s got an emotional problem and refuses to see any kind of therapist. (They might tell her something she does not want to hear.) Theo

[waverider]

I've been with my uBPDw for decades. She, and I are "older" folks who act pretty young. Most people are shocked when they find out how old we are. She has become worse in later years as the result of three things:

1. She had a stomach bypass and has lost a lot of weight. (No longer looks like a person with a weight problem.) however, the stress of being a food addict who can't eat because she has a tiny stomach now, causes her to be on edge and very prone to anger of all kinds. Rage comes easily and frequently.

2. She has transferred her addiction to alcohol and goes through a personality change after two drinks. Jeckle and Hyde. Lately she's been dry. Either someone else got to her or she's afraid I will leave permanently.

3. As we get older the systems get weaker, including the nervous system. So she has a harder time controlling herself. Little things provoke anger that shouldn't.

Finally, my wife still seems to be in total denial. I'm sure that on some level she knows. She's very smart and educated and was a high functioning pwBPD during school and her working career, but won't admit that she' s got an emotional problem and refuses to see any kind of therapist. (They might tell her something she does not want to hear.) Theo

Do you think a fear of not being in control, or being seen to be in control, fuels frustration, bitterness and anger? The ravages of age, real and percieved, may fuel this problem

[Theo41]

Wave rider you make good points. I always find your posts informative and helpful. Thanks. Theo

[empath]

High functioning very often go through their entire life in denial, often ending up being inwardly bitter towards others, even if they cover it up. Some almost put on a facade that is closer to NPD (overcompensating).

I would say the majority are never diagnosed, enter any treatment, or even have many interactions with the health system, and so as a result are missing from the "stats". The public facades the erect are more convincing and consistent

I think it is common for their BPD only coming to light after the behavior is traced backwards from the consequences of producing low function BPD children (a common result of BPD parenting).

Or other consequences in their family as a result of their BPD that they have to face. Those public facades begin to have cracks, and other people raise concerns.

So, how does a loved one respond to the question, "do you think something's wrong with me?" This question has come up a couple of times in the recent past in conversations.

[waverider]

So, how does a loved one respond to the question, "do you think something's wrong with me?" This question has come up a couple of times in the recent past in conversations.

I guess I would start by asking them why they perceive they have issues, and would it make them feel more at ease if they were to discuss these issues with a therapist, as I can only support them not diagnose.

But of course it is a loaded question so you would have to be careful as to the intent of the question.

[Theo41]

Regarding responding to "do you think there's anything wrong with me."

I have three answers for this although I've never been asked (they're in denial but know at some level, so don't want to lead with their chin):

1. If everything is going well and the time is not right ( going on vacation ) I would say love u just the way u are. " (The question, especially from a person with BPD is like her asking if the dress makes her butt look big.)

2. If the time is right I would still say I love all of you but I'm concerned about your happiness and emotional stability... . I think it would be great if u got some counseling for that . I could help u find a good therapist and would go with u if that would make u feel better.

3. At the end of a horrible, no good, very bad blow out: "if you don't get help and take your meds, I'm leaving!." Unfortunately, I never want to upset the apple cart unless it's already turned over in which case I go to #3.

It would be great to hear from someone with professional experience on this topic, or someone who has lots of experience and been asked the question. Theo

[Theo41]

As usual, Waverider has what sounds like the best possible way of dealing with a delicate question like that.  (I first saw his post after I posted.) Theo

[bruceli]

The major difference between high and low functioning is that low cannot hide they have a problem, with regular public displays of their disorder. There is no hiding they have a mental illness. Inability to work due to conflict/lack of commitment or responsibility. Often living a slovenly existence. Facades of normality break down very quickly. Hence they are not the hidden statistics. Often crying out for help, but often being told  to "get their act together" as a response.

High functioning will always get by and so have no need in their mind to accept they have an illness, and would be horrified to believe so. Being seen to "have their act together" is paramount to them and will resist all attempts to be portayed otherwise.

In simplistic terms it is a measure of ability to cover up the disorder and keeping the skeletons in the closet, including deceiving themselves.

Then there are those like my pwPD who I consider kind of medium functioning due to her behaviors.  She only leaves the house for work.  Does basic survival stuff like shop after work.  Will not leave the house otherwise.  Due to bad choices (i.e. DUI's and unstable and intense interpersonal relationships) she has limited herself to othder social activities.  Is uncomfortable going out with me because according to her when WE go out... . all I do is want to be and oogle other women and that is very disrespectful to her.  In other words she is projecting her shortcomings onto me.

[guitarguy09]

The major difference between high and low functioning is that low cannot hide they have a problem, with regular public displays of their disorder. There is no hiding they have a mental illness. Inability to work due to conflict/lack of commitment or responsibility. Often living a slovenly existence. Facades of normality break down very quickly. Hence they are not the hidden statistics. Often crying out for help, but often being told  to "get their act together" as a response.

High functioning will always get by and so have no need in their mind to accept they have an illness, and would be horrified to believe so. Being seen to "have their act together" is paramount to them and will resist all attempts to be portayed otherwise.

In simplistic terms it is a measure of ability to cover up the disorder and keeping the skeletons in the closet, including deceiving themselves.

Then there are those like my pwPD who I consider kind of medium functioning due to her behaviors.  She only leaves the house for work.  Does basic survival stuff like shop after work.  Will not leave the house otherwise.  Due to bad choices (i.e. DUI's and unstable and intense interpersonal relationships) she has limited herself to othder social activities.  Is uncomfortable going out with me because according to her when WE go out... . all I do is want to be and oogle other women and that is very disrespectful to her.  In other words she is projecting her shortcomings onto me.

I feel for you bruceli. My uBPDw is much the same way in terms of she is in survival mode when it comes to relationships a lot of the time (no one likes me/I can't trust anyone), and obviously has the conflict in relationships too. She does go out with me though and we usually have a good time. So I guess I shouldn't take that for granted.

[Fremont]

I have three BPD in my family: sister (42, diagnosed), mother (61, undiagnosed), grandmother (~80, undiagnosed)

My sister died at age 42 and never had the slightest inkling she had a problem - even though she was formally diagnosed in her mid-20's.

My mother has steadily gone downhill fast over the past year, triggered by the demise of her 3rd marriage, my niece (who she raised) going away to college, my (living 3,000 miles away) having another child (that she can't see often) and her other daughter dying.  She is spiraling out of control at this point.

My grandmother has been what I would term a "lost cause" for at least 15 years at this point.

It seems to me - based on my limited experience - that without insight or help, they get worse as they get older probably in part to the way people tend to "lose their filter" as they age.

[Fremont]

My sister died at age 42 and never had the slightest inkling she had a problem - even though she was formally diagnosed in her mid-20's.

Oops, can't seem to edit... .   she did very little to control her issues and was very much like a teenager in her actions and life.  She also had drug and alcohol problems which certainly did not help.

[sm15000]

High functioning will always get by and so have no need in their mind to accept they have an illness, and would be horrified to believe so. Being seen to "have their act together" is paramount to them and will resist all attempts to be portayed otherwise.

In simplistic terms it is a measure of ability to cover up the disorder and keeping the skeletons in the closet, including deceiving themselves.

I agree with this very much too.  My ex was a University lecturer and was very good at 'keeping his act together'.  In hindsight, I remembered that before we got together certain 'out there' behaviours/ways of thinking that people used to point out, he would cover with his political stance - that he was an Anarchist. By painting himself as an alternative thinker sort of thing, he got away with it. . .and it was part of why I fell in love with him, he fascinated me.

My high functioning BPDboyfriend knows he has BPD and has (relatively) a lot of self-awareness and insight

Yes, in the end I believe he has a certain amount of self-awareness, certainly about the fact he likes to be in control.  Yet, he is a charmer - big time - even his friends teased him about it and their little boy said to him once (after seeing him with a waitress) "no wonder you're not married, you're too big a flirt"    yet, he seemed oblivious.  He needs the attention of women, almost to self-soothe.  Shame is his big thing, once he senses he might be exposed for the man he is not he becomes quite narcissistic, very limited empathy, manipulative, blaming - the whole lot to defend his image.  At the end, I told him I knew something was wrong. . .he sneered, 'I know you do' but nothing more. 

As we get older the systems get weaker, including the nervous system. So she has a harder time controlling herself. Little things provoke anger that shouldn't.

Finally, my wife still seems to be in total denial. I'm sure that on some level she knows. She's very smart and educated and was a high functioning pwBPD during school and her working career, but won't admit that she' s got an emotional problem and refuses to see any kind of therapist. (They might tell her something she does not want to hear.)

Well, I think approaching 50 triggered my ex. . .always mentioning stuff about getting older, his body, women fancying him. . .also ended up involved with a woman less than half his age, porn use increased.  I think he was noticing the strain in work, said his hearing wasn't as sharp and had to keep asking what people had said. . .I think his confidence was taking a knocking with ageing. 

Saying all that, he has someone in his life now, she's younger, he's still out there charming 

[bruceli]

The major difference between high and low functioning is that low cannot hide they have a problem, with regular public displays of their disorder. There is no hiding they have a mental illness. Inability to work due to conflict/lack of commitment or responsibility. Often living a slovenly existence. Facades of normality break down very quickly. Hence they are not the hidden statistics. Often crying out for help, but often being told  to "get their act together" as a response.

High functioning will always get by and so have no need in their mind to accept they have an illness, and would be horrified to believe so. Being seen to "have their act together" is paramount to them and will resist all attempts to be portayed otherwise.

In simplistic terms it is a measure of ability to cover up the disorder and keeping the skeletons in the closet, including deceiving themselves.

Then there are those like my pwPD who I consider kind of medium functioning due to her behaviors.  She only leaves the house for work.  Does basic survival stuff like shop after work.  Will not leave the house otherwise.  Due to bad choices (i.e. DUI's and unstable and intense interpersonal relationships) she has limited herself to othder social activities.  Is uncomfortable going out with me because according to her when WE go out... . all I do is want to be and oogle other women and that is very disrespectful to her.  In other words she is projecting her shortcomings onto me.

I feel for you bruceli. My uBPDw is much the same way in terms of she is in survival mode when it comes to relationships a lot of the time (no one likes me/I can't trust anyone), and obviously has the conflict in relationships too. She does go out with me though and we usually have a good time. So I guess I shouldn't take that for granted.

Yes indeed, she is deep into the not trusting anyone.  Absolutly no friends at all.  Her own daughter has gone NC with her and only LC from the rest of her family.

[Dutched]

Hi all,

I am on the leaving board, but saw this post.

For my story: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=216147.0


Yes It gets worse when they get older. She is 52 now. Was together for a 3+ decades (2 kids), 3+yrs. out now.

She was HF and as Waverider describes, their behaviour is only visible for their partner and or within the 4 wall of the house.  Outside she was most social and highly appreciated in the community. Good education and ditto steady job for a 11 yrs. now.

On this side of the ocean, literature mention more than once that during midlife they end very suddenly (outbursts) long term relatively stable relationships (which was in my case, although many flaws). 

Fully related to this, and sporadic mentioned/described, is that as from 40-45+ the hormones of women change. The menopause begins, a normal biological process. During this process all women “get it on their nerves”.  So add this with BPD and you might expect an outcome which is far from pleasant.

As ex HF is/was in fear denial, problems were “caused by” hormones, to deflect the real problem. At a certain point every 3 to 5 months a severe outburst.  We discussed a lot, she accepted to go in therapy to “discover” her issues. Anyway, after 1 yr. therapy was stopped by the therapist as she couldn’t be of any further help. She had to see a psychologist. She refused because of fear, fear for the “loaded word” (not really, as nothing was wrong with her…).

Anyway she is gone. Until a 3 months ago she was still dissociative (finalisation of divorce), except in her job (even managed to pass heavy exams…), still social, so keeping up her happy façade

As a saying on this side of the ocean: once the audience went home, they sees to exists.

Inside she crumbled down in these 3+ yrs., so she is out hunting for my replacement, to be filled,  as rumours go.