I never thought I'd tell anybody this... ever

[Depression = 72% of members]

Oh bud.  That's about the hardest ones I've ever heard of... .

Silver lining... . at least the behavior was so INCREDIBLY disordered you know deep down that there is NO hope for this.  EVER. 

While I never had anything quite that extreme we had our moments.  Rages had begun to get physical with her poking me and pushing me... . and then throwing things.  I could FEEL it beginning to escalate and think it would have wound up in outright physical abuse if I'd let it continue. 

From what I've read this is standard.  It all gets worse... . the rages increase in frequency, the physical abuse shows up and continues to escalate, and the substance abuse be it alcoholism or whatever or both just gets progressively worse. 

They're literally in a black hole and cant pull themselves out... . and drag you along with.  Sometimes I think they enjoy the black hole because all that ANGER makes them feel alive... . it gives them meaning and purpose... . especially since many of them don't have much of a reason to wake up at the beginning of each day... . or even if they do (like a kid) they consider it more of a burden than a reason to live. 

That was brave of you to tell us.  I wouldn't tell the mom anything even now.  It opens up the gateway for the ex to come back and attack you for badmouthing her and spreading gossip in her mind.  She will NOT see it as an altruistic act.   

[Johnny Alias]

Oh bud.  That's about the hardest ones I've ever heard of... .

Silver lining... . at least the behavior was so INCREDIBLY disordered you know deep down that there is NO hope for this.  EVER. 

While I never had anything quite that extreme we had our moments.  Rages had begun to get physical with her poking me and pushing me... . and then throwing things.  I could FEEL it beginning to escalate and think it would have wound up in outright physical abuse if I'd let it continue. 

From what I've read this is standard.  It all gets worse... . the rages increase in frequency, the physical abuse shows up and continues to escalate, and the substance abuse be it alcoholism or whatever or both just gets progressively worse. 

They're literally in a black hole and cant pull themselves out... . and drag you along with.  Sometimes I think they enjoy the black hole because all that ANGER makes them feel alive... . it gives them meaning and purpose... . especially since many of them don't have much of a reason to wake up at the beginning of each day... . or even if they do (like a kid) they consider it more of a burden than a reason to live. 

That was brave of you to tell us.  I wouldn't tell the mom anything even now.  It opens up the gateway for the ex to come back and attack you for badmouthing her and spreading gossip in her mind.  She will NOT see it as an altruistic act.   

[Changingman]

Hi Moonie,

Let it out son, we have nothing to fear but the truth.

This to me is part of the way they cause such mental destruction.

My ex started an argument at the end of our first year together. She came at me in the kitchen and I said you're getting too close and aggressive. Suddenly she sucker punched me in the jaw, I saw stars and instinctively hit her back. She fell and looked terrified crying and saying I was going to beat her. It was awful, I forgot she had hit me and felt horrified at what I'd done. I went to the bedroom saying I'll pack a bag and leave. I cried as I packed just never before layed a hand on a woman ever. She came into the bedroom and said it was ok, I very carefully and calmly said it was unforgivable what I had done and would leave quickly. She stopped me seduced me and had sex with me. After this she always told me how much she hated me getting angry or assertive. I now think if I had t protected myself that day it would have become a weekly/monthly event. Later she would provoke me. At the end to paint me black she was trying to make me hit her. I was so shocked she was doing this, so obvious what she was doing. She did much worse emotionally. I suffered almost physical breakdown, oh she hit me with more than her fists.

It's all part of breaking you down

Peace to you Moonie

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Moonie, The sad thing about this episode to me is how often we Nons cover for our BPD SOs.  I understand that we Nons generally think of ourselves as White Knights, but we do ourselves a disservice by lying to others when our pwBPD acts out and rages against us.  That's the insidious thing about BPD: we are often ashamed or embarrassed to talk about what's really going on, which is usually abuse in one form or another.  Lucky Jim

[Perfidy]

This is a sensitive topic for me Moonie. I've been avoiding a reply because it dredges up crap that I'd just as soon leave alone. So I figure I better say something and face the feelings.

First of all, I'm sorry that you had to experience physical abuse. I know how it feels. It has to be the lowest level of respect one person is capable of showing another. It leaves us bewildered how a person that has professed undying love for us to turn into a threat that we feel compelled to defend ourselves from. This dissonance was overwhelming for me. Again, I'm sincerely sorry that you experienced that.

Completely unacceptable yet I accepted it. Made allowances because I knew of the BPD. Let it repeat into cycles. Years.

Left me with trauma buried in my subconscious mind that I was unable to process at the time.

Getting this stuff out is a little more complicated than just talking about it. It's something that my counsellor and I haven't been able to get far with.

Admitting this is a start. By keeping it secret or covering it up, a person unwittingly becomes an enabler. We let ourselves be defined by another persons sick personality. We're better than that. We deserve better.

[SeekingAdviceinCa]

Hey Moonie, The sad thing about this episode to me is how often we Nons cover for our BPD SOs.  I understand that we Nons generally think of ourselves as White Knights, but we do ourselves a disservice by lying to others when our pwBPD acts out and rages against us.  That's the insidious thing about BPD: we are often ashamed or embarrassed to talk about what's really going on, which is usually abuse in one form or another.  Lucky Jim

I can relate to this completely.  No one knew any of our problems for 12 years until I finally opened up about them.  We think of others above ourselves.  And while noble and kind, that can be a recipe for disaster when it comes to being in a relationship with a BPD.

[fromheeltoheal]

I'm sorry that happened Moonie.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but hiding the secret and living the lie were probably more painful than the physical damage; my ex punched the crap out of me and hit me in the face, undeniably abuse, but that was nowhere near as painful as the continuous mindfck.  She doesn't know how close she got to getting her ass kicked though, and accessing bpdfamily from jail would have been much more difficult.  Whew!  Bullet dodged.

Good for you for telling us and being vulnerable; how does the situation feel now?  More resolved?

[Clearmind]

Moonie is it likely you were protecting yourself by not divulging the truth?

Often in times like this we experience self shame. It's ok - you did your best and the best of us crack under such immense pressure. Allowing ourselves to walk on eggshells for so long can cause us to do things we wouldn't normally.

[Lucky Jim]

Admitting this is a start. By keeping it secret or covering it up, a person unwittingly becomes an enabler. We let ourselves be defined by another persons sick personality. We're better than that. We deserve better.

Nicely put, Perfidy.  I'm with you, SeekingAdvice, fromheeltoheal and Clearmind.

LJ

[BeHappyAgain]

Hi Moonie

That was a powerful post.

It took guts to endure asault and not seek justice

It took guts to recount it as well.

At least you know that any relationship anywhere with anyone is gonna bring you more joy than that.

[Take2]

(( hugs )) 

That took courage for you to share that with all of us... .   I do hope it helps you on your road to healing... .

[ucmeicu2]

Moonie, thank-you for sharing that with us... . it will help you in your healing. We get to hold space for you right now as you do that... . you are brave and I hope you get to see that bravery in yourself. Be very good to you right now as you let some of this grieving go... .

Moonie, not only does it help you heal, but it helps us to heal, too ~ helps me heal ~ so, thank you. 

yes, i agree with DreamofPeace, you ARE brave to share this experience.  there's stuff i'm still holding in... . out of shame, fear of judgement, i suppose... . so yeah i'm admiring you!   

my exBPDgf progressed to a hardcore violent alcoholic, so i greatly appreciate your reminder of how bad news alcohol can be, how dangerous a pwBPD can be, and what a catastrophic combination the two can be together.  thank god chocolate and peanut butter is such a safe pairing.   

Icu2

[Take2]

Ucme... .    curious how long that progression took leading up to the violent alcoholic part?  was she a drinker before that?

thanks...

[DreamGirl]

Moonie, you didn't deserve that. No one deserves to be hit or bitten.  :'(

I've done a lot of advocacy work for individuals that are/were in domestic violence situations. If they ever met me, it was because there were children involved and the conflict/violence had escalated to needing a protection order for one of the parties. Counseling is a big factor to recovery for both parents and there is a lot of psychological components involved when it comes to being in these relationships. Statistically speaking, the woman - on average - returns to the relationship seven times. There are reasons for that - usually having to do with the cycle of violence. (i.e. men are twice as likely to be abusive if they grew up witnessing abuse of their mother, and women are more likely to be in an abusive relationship if they witnessed their mother being abused.)   

I stepped in front of her forcing her to stop in her tracks. I took hold of her arms at the elbows to stop her flailing them around. I told her I loved her, again that nothing had ever gone on with the other woman & since she's told me her feelings I don't communicate with her. My shouted I should let go of her, as though I was threatening her. I said not till you calm down & stop shouting. Just calm down.

In the US, if you had reported this entire incident to the police - you probably would have both been arrested.

It's not OK to restrain someone when they are trying to walk away - even when you're shouting "I love you" and "calm down".

I don't say that to take away from what she did, and what she did was really wrong... . and it is not a justification to hit or bite.

I say it because it's really important not to avoid what part we played. Maybe it was 27% you and 73% her - but the only part you have the power to improve on is that 27%.

And we're in the PI zone over here where we take the hard look at ourselves.

Moonie, did you grow up in an abusive home?

[ucmeicu2]

Ucme... .    curious how long that progression took leading up to the violent alcoholic part?  was she a drinker before that?  thanks...

honestly take2 i don't know... . and i'm not sure it's relevant here in moonie's thread... . but, she lied to me a lot (in the beginning i didn't even know she was actively drinking).  she protected me from her drinking, hid it from me, stayed away from me when she was drinking, isolated.  in the beginning, anyways.  it got real bad the last yr i knew her.  at the end of my 3 yr on/off stint with her, she was physically dependent (suffered DT's if she didnt drink round the clock, altho i think she milked even that!) and went to rehab twice, jail many times, and then prison.  hope that helps you, if not, you can PM me Take2.