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Author Topic: Is the replacement relationship always the same?  (Read 910 times)
16YearBetrayal

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« on: February 15, 2014, 10:52:48 PM »

I'm wondering if the next relationships of our exBPDs are always equally as bad. I know we are not there to really know, but from what you have heard do they really do all the same terrible things to the replacement as they did to us?

Sometimes I continue to think I'm part of the problem. Since my ex is running off with my replacement, I would like to take a little solace in knowing that she is in for a terrible ride and he can now know it wasn't just me that was the problem.  I know that's terrible. But I'm the only relationship my ex has had, so I think he truly thinks it's me that causes the disfunction.

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« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2014, 11:06:28 PM »

I'm wondering if the next relationships of our exBPDs are always equally as bad. I know we are not there to really know, but from what you have heard do they really do all the same terrible things to the replacement as they did to us?

Sometimes I continue to think I'm part of the problem. Since my ex is running off with my replacement, I would like to take a little solace in knowing that she is in for a terrible ride and he can now know it wasn't just me that was the problem.  I know that's terrible. But I'm the only relationship my ex has had, so I think he truly thinks it's me that causes the disfunction.

It's an attachment disorder 16yearbetrayal. If he's not diagnosed and in therapy, he's not going to change. You or I or are not above this disorder and no amount of love cures it. He has to help himself. The replacement is a transitional object. The replacement is not going to cure him.

She will experience the same things that you have, it depends on when she triggers his real or perceived abandonment issues and he'll find another replacement.
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« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2014, 11:10:31 PM »

She will trigger his fear of intimacy / fear of abandonment.

Push / pull behavior.
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« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2014, 11:22:17 PM »

 Welcome

  Hi, 16yb.  Looking backwards at my uBPDxgfs' earlier relationships (ie. before me), I would say that yes, all their relationships are dysfunctional.

  Her previous partner is someone I'd known for many years and while I witnessed much negativity in their relationship, I mistakenly put it down to his treatment of her and the way he used to speak to her. (This was before I'd ever heard of BPD, let alone had a reason to research it). Knowing what I know now, of course, I realise that he treated/spoke to her that way because of her raging, cheating, lying, etc.

   Her earlier relationships I learned about from her family after I had reconnected her with her mother and brothers, from whom she'd been estranged for several years. It seems there is a definite pattern. All three of my predecessors were left to raise the children they'd had with her - one each for her first two partners, two boys (one of which I suspect isn't actually his) with the guy before me. Thankfully I didn't make the mistake of getting her pregnant.

   All these relationships ended as a result of her behaviour. Hope this helps you realise that you were NOT the problem in yours. Keep posting on this board and reading the articles available here. There's a lot of good people here who know from experience exactly what you're going through.  Smiling (click to insert in post)

   

   
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« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2014, 12:02:38 AM »

Yes, it seems like it usually ends poorly. But maybe the next person won't trigger him as much. 

All I know, is that me and my ex became one giant trigger.  There wasn't anything I could do about it in the end but leave.  My replacement is much more docile and has virtually no temper.  That will help them.

Worrying about how my ex is doing with the next partner is a symptom of the Disorder.  It's natural, but unproductive.  I hope for my cheating ex's demise with her cheating husband at least a dozen times a day. 

But when I find some grace, I detach,and don't really care or even wish them the best, which is the recovery I seek.
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« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2014, 01:40:37 AM »

This is standard in a breakup. Wondering about the former partner and if it will be better for them. The answers is we don't know. That's ok. It's the only right answer. I do understand. I've been there. Right now I give you hope and strengthen for your self. That's what support is all about.
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« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2014, 02:28:08 AM »

I'd hate to mislead you and have you bank on his next relationship failing only to have his next one work out or have them get married in a couple of months and seemingly walk off into some fairytale sunset.

Let me say without a doubt fairytale only exist in books and movies when it comes to this stuff.

God's honest truth... . The replacement could work or it could end.  Please, please don't base your worth on 'proof' of it failing.

There are several reasons why it may work and it's not always good.  One of the primary reasons is that this persons values are different than yours.  They may not value things like stability, intimacy, etc or they have a matched set of emotional (im)maturity that jives better.  The person may not have value based boundaries and\or struggle with their own self esteem or abandonment issues that the typical evolution and dysfunction of the BPD relationship is okay with them. 

The opposite end of the things is that may have really good skills, tolerance, and caretaking skills that the relationship becomes stable enough to thrive.  These relationships need a real green thumb to operate in manageable way and sometimes if the dysfunction and manifestation of the disorder is severe enough that still isn't enough.

None of this has a bearing on your loveableness.

I urge you as you come out of this relationship to look at the behavior and how that conflict with your needs and values for a relationship.  What was like to you?  Did he treat you right?  Was the relationship a safe and healthy one?
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« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2014, 02:37:43 AM »

Loveableness... . . My autocorrect gives me love able mess. Omg. Funny.
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« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2014, 05:23:02 AM »

ut I'm the only relationship my ex has had, so I think he truly thinks it's me that causes the disfunction.

I can relate. I have also been the first boyfriend of my ex and I also wonder sometimes if it was me, especially since she told me "you know how I was when you met me. But you made me like this". But actually it really doesn't matter if she is happier with the next guy, for the simple fact that YOU weren't happy with her. Maybe things will go great between my ex and my replacement but it still doesn't matter that things could be great with us too. Maybe he has the same values as her or maybe he has the same style of resolving problems with her (temporary break ups). And if he does, then nice, have fun with her. But I need a girlfriend with whom I can talk about our problems and from whom I don't hear the word "break up" until the day we finally do instead or hearing it every 2 weeks.

You get the point? It's not important if they are happy or not. What is important is that you two didn't belong together, otherwise you wouldn't be here right now.

I used to feel the same way as you, but by now I really don't blame myself anymore for the end of the relationship. BPD or not, we simply didn't fit.
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« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2014, 05:34:17 AM »

from what you have heard do they really do all the same terrible things to the replacement as they did to us?

Well, my ex had been cheating on her husband for 7 years with numerous men, had been cheating on me and on the guy she was having an affair with.
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« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2014, 09:24:46 AM »

The opposite end of the things is that may have really good skills, tolerance, and caretaking skills that the relationship becomes stable enough to thrive.  These relationships need a real green thumb to operate in manageable way and sometimes if the dysfunction and manifestation of the disorder is severe enough that still isn't enough.

16YB, it's natural what you're feeling.  I think we all did and this is a recurring question on this forum.  Here's my perspective and it may help ease your thoughts.

I was the replacement for my exwBPD's first husband.  I put up a helluva fight for 2.5 years (I was 30 by then) and finally just gave in and married her, thinking "it's GOT to be easier than this".  Is that not the most idiotic logic you've ever heard?   But that's what I thought.  I had a trail of unstable relationships and I wanted a family, which is exactly what I got.  The idealization phase ended the very day we got married but I'm the kind of person where when I make a commitment, I follow through with it come Hell or high water.  Little did I know I was going to get both and THEN some.  I had the skills that I quoted from Green Mango because I was raised by the queen/witch version of a BPD mother.  We made it to 19.5 years of marriage before she imploded into BPD insanity and abandoned us.

Now, let's look at this from her first husband's perspective as if he was asking this question.  By all appearances, my exwBPD and I rode off into the sunset and were living happily ever after.  She was a stay at home mom, we have two wonderful children, I have a good job, we have a nice (but modest) home in a relatively good neighborhood with a good school system.

We're living the dream  -   NOT !

She's gone with now husband #3 (Mr. Affair man) and our kids (D21, S14) have NO functional mother, FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIVES!

I've spent the majority of my life with women suffering from BPD.  I do not posses the skills that it takes for a healthy, normal relationship and I accept that now and am focusing my energies elsewhere.

Does that sound like all peaches and cream to you?   I didn't think so.

So, moral of this story is that even IF it appears that your replacement and your ex have run off into the sunset in a bliss of happiness, IT'S NOT TRUE!

The end is coming.  The end WILL be brutal and it's just a matter of time.
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« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2014, 12:00:36 PM »

My ex husband has never had a good relationship. I'm not sure he is capable, he is convinced that others are untrustworthy. Including me, and he married me.

Whoever the person is, they are in for a world of hurt. Unless they are able to completely disregard him, and just live their lives and let him bluster on.

I think you get to a point where you feel sorry for the next one, because you know what kind of pain they are in for. Soul wrenching, gut busting pain.

L
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« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2014, 12:13:21 PM »

Green Mango has some wise words, I hope everyone took the time to really absorb them.

I'm wondering if the next relationships of our exBPDs are always equally as bad.

bad is really a subjective word - what is bad to you might not seem bad to someone else.  For example, my ex drinking and passing out on the couch was horrible for me - it might not be horrible for the next.

I know we are not there to really know, but from what you have heard do they really do all the same terrible things to the replacement as they did to us?

pwBPD have very strong emotions that can trigger behavior we deem terrible... . it is the maladaptive coping tools in their toolbelt.  This doesn't change easily or without some work.  However, keep in mind the triggers of abandonment will still be there unless worked through and new tools are given.

Sometimes I continue to think I'm part of the problem.

This is your golden ticket - because there is truth to this statement and this is the only thing you can really change or focus to make a difference.

A person with strong boundaries, invalidating conversation style is going to be more of a problem than someone who is not - but these are not bad qualities, simply a fact of the dance.

Did you do the best you could with the information you had? 

Can you forgive yourself for not being perfect?

It is with this question that you can start to heal your own core stuff which results in likely not going down a BPD path again and more importantly resulting in your own calm and peace.

Since my ex is running off with my replacement, I would like to take a little solace in knowing that she is in for a terrible ride and he can now know it wasn't just me that was the problem.  I know that's terrible. But I'm the only relationship my ex has had, so I think he truly thinks it's me that causes the disfunction.

It's not terrible, anger is a very real part and necessary part of grief.  I had those same thoughts.  What I learned about myself is I tended to have those thoughts when I was feeling very lonely or lost... . if I was busy, fulfilled, filling my own soul - I didn't have that thought.  But in the times (we all have them) that I felt sad, lonely, lost - my mind would go down this path. 

Cry it out and move on to something that makes you feel good about you even if it is just for a minute.

Peace,

SB
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16YearBetrayal

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« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2014, 01:50:35 PM »

Thank you everyone for your responses.  They were so helpful.  And yes, I do hope one day I will get to a place where I can solely focus on healing myself and not on him or my replacement at all.   I know that is the only thing I can control and that needs to be my focus.  But sometimes my mind wanders.   

I do know that I am part of the problem in the sense that I am responsible for letting this happen to me.  So I guess I should have worded that differently.  I choose to stay for a very long time (16 years) in a very unhealthy and abusive relationship.  I am trying to not beat myself up for it, but I do know that I have to heal myself and learn to love myself so that this doesn't repeat itself in the future. 

I am thankful everyday that I have been seeing a counselor for the last 2 years and she knows my story and my husband very well.  So she has been with me along the way, and her advice is always so useful.  I know she will lead me down the path to healing and I am ready and willing to work on my issues that let this happen in the first place. 

Please read my story on the new members board and give me your advice: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=219863.0

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« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2014, 02:50:47 PM »

Thank you everyone for your responses.  They were so helpful.  And yes, I do hope one day I will get to a place where I can solely focus on healing myself and not on him or my replacement at all.   I know that is the only thing I can control and that needs to be my focus.  But sometimes my mind wanders.   

I do know that I am part of the problem in the sense that I am responsible for letting this happen to me.  So I guess I should have worded that differently.  I choose to stay for a very long time (16 years) in a very unhealthy and abusive relationship.  I am trying to not beat myself up for it, but I do know that I have to heal myself and learn to love myself so that this doesn't repeat itself in the future. 

I am thankful everyday that I have been seeing a counselor for the last 2 years and she knows my story and my husband very well.  So she has been with me along the way, and her advice is always so useful.  I know she will lead me down the path to healing and I am ready and willing to work on my issues that let this happen in the first place. 

Please read my story on the new members board and give me your advice: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=219863.0

Hey 16 y.o.:  (I hope you don't mind that I use that moniker).  Being new in recovery is something like being a teenager all over again.  From what I can see you're doing great.  We begin by asking for help. It's very difficult for me to ask, but then after that being open minded to the suggestions.

But that's cuz I'm a stubborn old man in many ways. . Your action of asking for suggestions show great openmindedness and willingess.  Combined that with honesty, and we have real evidence to hope for a better today than yesterday.

Looking back is important to learn the lessons.  How our exes live from now on is really not our concern, but it's impossible to not project or dwell.  I took on my exes persona so much that I began to believe that I would not exist without her.  It's hard at times, because I can still feel that way.  But I also know that in the two years out, I'm a much deeper real person than I could have even imagined while I was with her.

You ex's new relationship may be different.  But without real therapy, how you ex treats his new object of attachment is very likely to be the same.

My ex is with a very docile man, who allowed himself to be a back up for a year and half.  He has not temper, and when I learned it was him, my thought was they'll get married because he's a much better fit.  But it doesn't mean that he'll be treated any differently.  I don't say worse or better, just not likely to be differently. 

So he might be willing to accept that my ex will gaslight him, treat him abusively, cultivate the affections of other men, live without a sense of accountability or responsibility... . and if he can accept it they might last longer.  In fact he married her, I wouldn't.

I had to radically accept that nothing was going to change on her part.  If I wanted to be in the interaction any longer, I would have to accept all the above behaviors, because that was simply her nature and she didn't want to change.  When I accepted that nothing would change, then I demanded changes in myself.

From what I hear, you're doing great. There are many wise people on here.  I had to Share, read, read the workshops, old posts, get a therapist, find like minded people who understand and validate, explore mindfulness techniques... . and learn to let go and also forgive myself. 

You're not alone.  There's a proven path that we walk on for recovery.  This is not a hoax. I don't get paid any more than you do  Smiling (click to insert in post) Smiling (click to insert in post) Smiling (click to insert in post) Smiling (click to insert in post)    Except that we all pay it forward.


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« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2014, 04:06:45 PM »

The opposite end of the things is that may have really good skills, tolerance, and caretaking skills that the relationship becomes stable enough to thrive.  These relationships need a real green thumb to operate in manageable way and sometimes if the dysfunction and manifestation of the disorder is severe enough that still isn't enough.

16YB, it's natural what you're feeling.  I think we all did and this is a recurring question on this forum.  Here's my perspective and it may help ease your thoughts.

I was the replacement for my exwBPD's first husband.  I put up a helluva fight for 2.5 years (I was 30 by then) and finally just gave in and married her, thinking "it's GOT to be easier than this".  Is that not the most idiotic logic you've ever heard?   But that's what I thought.  I had a trail of unstable relationships and I wanted a family, which is exactly what I got.  The idealization phase ended the very day we got married but I'm the kind of person where when I make a commitment, I follow through with it come Hell or high water.  Little did I know I was going to get both and THEN some.  I had the skills that I quoted from Green Mango because I was raised by the queen/witch version of a BPD mother.  We made it to 19.5 years of marriage before she imploded into BPD insanity and abandoned us.

Now, let's look at this from her first husband's perspective as if he was asking this question.  By all appearances, my exwBPD and I rode off into the sunset and were living happily ever after.  She was a stay at home mom, we have two wonderful children, I have a good job, we have a nice (but modest) home in a relatively good neighborhood with a good school system.

We're living the dream  -   NOT !

She's gone with now husband #3 (Mr. Affair man) and our kids (D21, S14) have NO functional mother, FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIVES!

I've spent the majority of my life with women suffering from BPD.  I do not posses the skills that it takes for a healthy, normal relationship and I accept that now and am focusing my energies elsewhere.

Does that sound like all peaches and cream to you?   I didn't think so.

So, moral of this story is that even IF it appears that your replacement and your ex have run off into the sunset in a bliss of happiness, IT'S NOT TRUE!

The end is coming.  The end WILL be brutal and it's just a matter of time.

I want to thank you for this post Imstronghere2.  I think many here will find comfort in your words and shelter from the demons that chase so many of us.
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« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2014, 05:30:35 PM »

I agree with what others have said on this thread.  I think much of it depends on what the replacement is willing to tolerate and whether or not they trigger the BPD partner.  My ex shared with me that he repeated the same patterns in all of his previous relationships. He brought those patterns to the table with me too. 

I was a replacement for his ex wife. I experienced the same patterns and behaviors as his ex wife. Interestingly, she didn't set boundaries as much as I did, nor did she protest his behavior. One would think he would find that relationship environment less triggering.  Yet our experiences with him were almost identical.

I knew his ex wife, and I also know my replacement.  While my replacement is probably more 'age appropriate' for him, I'm guessing that she is probably triggering him because he has tried to recycle me as a replacement for her.  The only thing that gets recycled at my house is my trash   ... .
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« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2014, 06:36:37 PM »

Hey 16YearBetrayal... . I am so sorry to hear of the painful and dismaying events that have brought you to this site.  My heart goes out to you.

I read your introductory post.  It is heart-wrenching.  I would like to note that regardless of the BPD traits of your husband, and they are quite pronounced, common sense would indicate that this new "relationship" (and the use of that word in this context stretches the definition of the word) has little chance of bringing anything other than more chaos.  She has been married less than a year and is involved with your husband, he reaches out to her while deceiving you, he is relocating to a new city, he is leaving behind his life let alone his wife and daughter and doing so in a sudden and poorly conceived manner.  Hmmm... . I am still looking for a factor that indicates success in any way.

I mention this because it is compelling to view such a move by your husband in the context of love, commitment and romance since that is how you have been relating to him.  As others have mentioned in this thread, it seems like your husband might be responding more to his inner sense of panic, fear and despair.  This does not make it any less painful for you, but it does propose a different lens for viewing its meaning. 

Also, stated clearly, the person that you now know as confused, withdrawn, deceptive... . this is the man that is moving to have a "relationship" with a newlywed.  This does not predict romantic bliss.

You have been hit with a series of serious life shocks in the past few months... . confronting the difficulty in your marriage, awareness of the personality issues of your husband, the loss of hopes and dreams, the re-evaluation of your life together, infidelity (that is enough on its own), separation, abandonment of your daughter by her father.  My, this is a lot to deal with.  It does sound like you have a good therapy resource and are looking at things fully and seeking the best way forward.  I mention all this just to acknowledge that you have suffered some big hurts and losses... . and you seem to be handling it quite well.  Please do keep posting and reading and engaging here.  It makes a big difference to communicate with others who have experienced similar episodes in life and who are committed to supporting you. 

One more thing... . your husband seems very unstable... . leaving town and getting involved with a newlywed... . please be conscious about protecting your legal rights.  I probably do not need to mention this to a lawyer, but the emotions can be overwhelming and we can forget to take care of the practical matters.  He is not likely to be entering into a period of prosperity here.  Please protect yourself in all ways, practically as well as emotionally.
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« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2014, 08:00:51 PM »

Winston's observations sound very perceptive to me.

Could your husband be running away from his family--and essentially from his life as a whole--due to shame over the incident with your brother?
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16YearBetrayal

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« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2014, 09:35:38 PM »

Thanks, Winson72.  Really great thoughts.  I am so happy that I found this site through reading Stop Walking on Eggshells.  Reading others stories and being able to share here is so helpful to me. I find it very calming when I am starting to get all flustered. 

Yes, sometimes I wonder how much more I can bare.  I try to constantly remind myself that this too shall pass.  It helps that I was starting to mentally process this a few months back rather than it all hit me at once.

I wll definitley protect my legal interests.  He already pulled the I don't think we should have child support be part of our divorce decree and I should just trust him to financially provide for her.  I was like if you are moving away, clearly I am now 100% financially responsible, you are paying child support and I have 0 trust in you.  In true BPD fashion, he has come around since making these statements and now agrees that what I am asking is completly reasonable.  But it made me realize that it is all going to depend on what day I get him how much of a fight this process will be.  I will have to re-turn on my amazing BPD management skills when the time comes to sign our papers.   Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2014, 09:56:57 PM »

Yes. They may last longer or shorter, outcome will be the same; destruction.
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« Reply #21 on: February 16, 2014, 10:57:18 PM »

He already pulled the I don't think we should have child support be part of our divorce decree and I should just trust him to financially provide for her.

Would a judge sign off on such a divorce decree in your state? (Maybe it's perfectly possible, and I've just never heard of "divorce with children" decrees that don't include provisions for parenting plans and child support.)
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16YearBetrayal

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« Reply #22 on: February 16, 2014, 11:08:43 PM »

Would a judge sign off on such a divorce decree in your state? (Maybe it's perfectly possible, and I've just never heard of "divorce with children" decrees that don't include provisions for parenting plans and child support.)

God if I know.  You definitely have to have a parenting plan.  But I presume you can agree to one parent being fully financially responsible for a child. 

The fact that providing for his daughter financially (only his share, I make more money so I will pay more) even upset him in the first place is what kills me.  Like I said, he appears to be over this issue now.  I am going to hope it stays that way. 

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mitchell16
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Posts: 829


« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2014, 12:30:20 PM »

best I can tell yes, all their relationship seemed to go about the same the way. I didnt know my exbodgf before I met her but based on things she told me, i can see the pattern.

her first ex husband: he was her high school sweetheart. She cheated on him twice while dating. once with a some guy and the next time with his best friend. They broke up and she stalked him for a year until he took her back. ( this waccording to her) their first year or two of marriage she tried to kill herself. She told me she had to have her husband confront his own brother becuase he was stalker her. She said her ex hsuband friends all wanted her and was always trying to make a passes at her. she again cheated on hsuband two more times. the divorced with a one child.

second ex: was a person she cheated on her first ex husband with. They had a violtile on/off againg relationship for 10 years. He became and alcholicl and crack addict. she had him arrested he had R.O. taken out on her. always talked about how she was crazy about him etc.

Boyfriend before me: was about 15 years older then her. they dated for about 10 months. Of course she says he was the one. BUt he was too jealous and controlling of her. Hmmmm. she left him and had an affair with a guy she was working with, for a few weeks. dropped that guy and then found me.

met me, we was in honeymoon bliss for a month or so. Then rages started from her. Thne the lies started. She lied to me and met the boyfriend before me " to see if she had feelings for him still" I forgave her. Since I was the one. she admitted lying to ex boyfriend before me about going out of town for teh weekend and then spending it with another man. Of course she didnt tellme all this in the beginning I found it out litlle by little as I went. of course while with me would tell me stories of how everyman hit on her, and she even made a play for my brother one night. I saw it with my own eyes ( sounds like what probably happened with husband number ones brother)

but the patterns are clear. she cant tell the truth, she cant stop cheating, everyman she is with is to jealous and controlling of her, everyman wants her sexually, how everyman she meets is "the one" so if i had to say yes, Im sure she her next one will be the same way.
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Changingman
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Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Daughter 15, Son 14
Posts: 644



« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2014, 03:16:34 PM »

The reality is what it is, you can work to change behaviours. If you don't you will repeat the same history. You know the answer really, you are just wounded and confused, I'm still pulling out shrapnel almost everyday.

Patterns

The answer is about our patterns, our choices. You have seen your SOs patterns. Is she in therapy trying to change it or still thinking in the way she was with you.
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