Does your pwBPD appreciate you/ is your pwBPD proud of you?

[Chosen]

One thing I was reflecting on last night was how I desire my uBPDh to be proud of me.  You know, how people say that marrying their spouse is the best decision they have done in their lives, and stuff like that?  Well... . I know it's probably kind of shallow, but I do want that.  For me, it doesn't really matter if everybody thinks I'm a good wife/ person, they appreciate me for who I am IF my H doesn't think that way.  And I don't think he does.

For him (and he's made it pretty clear various times), he thinks I'm not very good in any areas/ generally not a good wife/ person BUT he loves me and despite all of my faults he takes care of me, doesn't love me any less because I'm not good enough.  That's the way he expresses it to me.  He has never once said I'm good at anything, he's never shown to people outside (or at home, even) that he's proud of having me as his wife.  But he thinks I should be proud of him because he's the best husband. 

I have to admit I've been a bit moody since yesterday so probably that's why I'm thinking of all these things... . but I wonder if it's common in relationships with pwBPDs that you don't feel like you're of worth to the pwBPD?  (on his good mood days he'll say stuff like "you're the best" but it's never on anything specific, like "I love how you take care of me", so it just feels shallow to me, like he's just caught up in his emotions at the moment)  If so, how do you deal with it?

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[an0ught]

Hi Chosen,

I get what you are saying, not sure there is a good answer 

I suspect part of the solution will be not being dependent on his approval anymore.

  - a lot of our members are somewhat depressed

  - a lot of our member lack self esteem

I guess part of the solution is to truly and loudly be proud of yourself. Emotions do transfer.

I guess part of the solution is for him to let go of b&w.

I guess part of the solution is for him to become vulnerable - letting go of putting himself on a pedestal out of fear to be weak and accepting others as equal.

I'm pretty sure there is no shortcut 

[waverider]

My partner gushes all over me, just so long as it does not clash with am impulse/obsession/need of her own.

Do I value this adulation, no, validation is only as sound as the mind that gives it.

When my kids 'gush" over me, I am 10 foot tall. Their validation is gold. I build them, so they are perfect they just told me I am the perfect dad so I must have built perfect kids right?

Or is that self validation?  Whatever works, my kids make me feel great. My little rainbows on the darkest of days at times 

[Cloudy Days]

My husband seems to appreciate me at times. He always says thank you for dinner, which is nice. But he acts like I can't do anything right. I am very artsy and crafty and I have gotten my feelings hurt before because he will act like I can't do something, he's just always very in disbelief that I could make something so pretty or nice. He knows this is what I like to do and what I am good at. So why would he act like I am lousy at it? He's seen what I am capable of. He's usually very impressed once I am done, but seriously I shouldn't have to show him a finished product to make him believe I am good at something. As for him being proud I think he is sometimes, ya know depending on his mood, but he often tells me I am a terrible wife and I can't do anything right. I don't know how I have dealt with it for so long because I do have such low self esteem. When you have to talk yourself into believing you are worthy of love, it makes it harder to do when the person you love is telling you that your crap and can't do anything correctly. It's not like he will take care of the things that I am doing wrong or help me in any way. I know I am a good wife though, I'm pretty sure he tells me I am lousy because he feels like a lousy husband.

[waverider]

My husband seems to appreciate me at times. He always says thank you for dinner, which is nice. But he acts like I can't do anything right. I am very artsy and crafty and I have gotten my feelings hurt before because he will act like I can't do something, he's just always very in disbelief that I could make something so pretty or nice. He knows this is what I like to do and what I am good at. So why would he act like I am lousy at it? He's seen what I am capable of. He's usually very impressed once I am done, but seriously I shouldn't have to show him a finished product to make him believe I am good at something. As for him being proud I think he is sometimes, ya know depending on his mood, but he often tells me I am a terrible wife and I can't do anything right. I don't know how I have dealt with it for so long because I do have such low self esteem. When you have to talk yourself into believing you are worthy of love, it makes it harder to do when the person you love is telling you that your crap and can't do anything correctly. It's not like he will take care of the things that I am doing wrong or help me in any way. I know I am a good wife though, I'm pretty sure he tells me I am lousy because he feels like a lousy husband.

You are correct there is probably a whole lot of projection going on there

[KateCat]

I am very artsy and crafty and I have gotten my feelings hurt before because he will act like I can't do something, he's just always very in disbelief that I could make something so pretty or nice. He knows this is what I like to do and what I am good at. So why would he act like I am lousy at it? He's seen what I am capable of.

I wish I had artistic talent, but I never hear spousal criticism of the fact that I don't. On the other hand, I have heard that "only people with no other resources get PhDs."  So my guess is that this type of scorn is targeted at a wife's or husband's specific strengths.

It probably means he secretly thinks you're good, really good. . . . Maybe you can think of it as "validation" of a sort . . . .

[toasty]

She appreciates me until I do something to slight her, then I am a piece of crap.

[joshbjoshb]

I think I would appreciate a nice compliment once in a while. However her communication to me is about 90% full of negative - sometimes about me, sometimes about others.

Besides, I learn that her compliments always come with a price, and I never feel like they come from a true heart.

Too bad, but at least I get some good validation for myself from outside... .

[Cloudy Days]

I am very artsy and crafty and I have gotten my feelings hurt before because he will act like I can't do something, he's just always very in disbelief that I could make something so pretty or nice. He knows this is what I like to do and what I am good at. So why would he act like I am lousy at it? He's seen what I am capable of.

I wish I had artistic talent, but I never hear spousal criticism of the fact that I don't. On the other hand, I have heard that "only people with no other resources get PhDs."  So my guess is that this type of scorn is targeted at a wife's or husband's specific strengths.

It probably means he secretly thinks you're good, really good. . . . Maybe you can think of it as "validation" of a sort . . . .

That's a nice way to think of it! He's told me in the past that it is something that he loves about me. I guess that's why it hurt my feelings that he second guesses me. I do know that me having a hobby takes time away from me paying attention to him. So it could be a little bit of both. Maybe him trying to discourage me from doing it at all.

[Slave to the binary]

Looking back through the years I've realized it was up to me to give myself what he is not capable of giving. Validation or appreciation is missing from our interactions. As a matter of fact I've recognized he purposely would hide any positive comments/compliments about me from others (i.e. his current co-workers) and would relish in telling me when people thought I was ugly or "he was settling for me".     Sometimes that stuff still hurts when I think about it, but I've had to accept he is disordered and will always find ways to put a wedge in-between him and whoever is in his life when it pertains to intimacy. I wont lie and say I never thought about doing less than ideal things to prove my attractiveness. I would also be lying if I said I did not enjoy seeing the jaw drops when attending his work functions. And no, he did not introduce me, I would introduce myself and made him look even more foolish. 

[elemental]

Mine is proud of me because he thinks I am really good looking, smart, and can do anything I set myself to. He calls me his "little wizard".

Nearly 100% of any problems we have had have been due to issues with his ex wife and that he allowed/allows her to manipulate him through the kids.

So if he says anything about how crappy I am, it is because I have gotton openly upset at him for poor boundries with his ex. Otherwise, he thinks I am a terrible video game player and obviously if I took that seriously in terms of our relationship, I would be pretty silly. 

[Love Is Not Enough]

My partner gushes all over me, just so long as it does not clash with am impulse/obsession/need of her own.

Do I value this adulation, no, validation is only as sound as the mind that gives it.

When my kids 'gush" over me, I am 10 foot tall. Their validation is gold. I build them, so they are perfect they just told me I am the perfect dad so I must have built perfect kids right?

Or is that self validation?  Whatever works, my kids make me feel great. My little rainbows on the darkest of days at times 

Ditto

Ditto

BIG DITTO 


I want to value her appreciation of me more, but it is just feels meaningless after being split black so many times. Especially when it has been over such minor things. I guess the important lesson for all of us is that our own self-worth must come from within us. It just makes it that much harder when they are tearing us down.

I also try to appreciate my gf as much as possible and not criticize her. That is a terrible habit I picked up from my father and this rs has made me recognize and quit doing it. I pick my battles carefully and I approach whatever issue it is with compassion. No one likes to be criticized, BPD or not.

[waverider]

I pick my battles carefully and I approach whatever issue it is with compassion.

This is important, you can't be seen to be a complete pushover, nor do you want to be embroiled in endless petty conflict. Picking your battles means you can be objective, think your boundaries and consequences through better with less reactive responses. Which as you say enables you to be frim yet more compassionate.

Even if you do not get the result you would like, you will feel a greater sense of self for making yourself heard.

[hergestridge]

Proud of me? What we do together is of her concern. Things I do that doesn't involve her she doesn't give a ___ about. I have an artistic talent which I would have needed her support developing, but she's just shrugged her shoulders when I've showed her good reviews in international publications that my work has received. It's been like "Ok... . so what's for dinner?".

[Love Is Not Enough]

I pick my battles carefully and I approach whatever issue it is with compassion.

This is important, you can't be seen to be a complete pushover, nor do you want to be embroiled in endless petty conflict. Picking your battles means you can be objective, think your boundaries and consequences through better with less reactive responses. Which as you say enables you to be frim yet more compassionate.

Even if you do not get the result you would like, you will feel a greater sense of self for making yourself heard.

This is really important and I have a few things I need to discuss with her for my own well being. I feel much more confident now with the tools. I hope to get to them soon. Unfortunately I am a terrible procrastinator and prefer not to rock the boat. Sometimes though, it just needs rocking 

[Jonie]

Hi Chosen, maybe it helps to find out why exactley you would like your husband to be more appreciative? Is it to help you feel better about yourself and stenghten your self esteem, because you think it’s ill mannered to be depreciated by your spouse (maybe even in front of your friends, family), or because you don’t want your children (if  you have those) to grow up with this model of a relationship? And: do you really think he doesn’t value you, or is it that he can’t bring himself to express his appreciation for you?

I also have a (ex?)pwBPD that never shows any appreciation for me. He’s never interested in what I do and depreciates almost anything about me. The few things he does acknowledge I’m good at , are things he doesn’t like himself. He excludes me from social circles that are important for him.

However, I’m convinced that he does think highly of me, but can’t express that, because of his low self esteem. Giving me compliments would feel like acknowledging his own shortcomings. As his depreciations don’t have much influence on how I feel about myself, it is annoying – (and a great pity: indeed, it would be so nice to be complimented and validated by the one who you choose to share your life with) – but it doesn’t really get to me.

Equally, I don’t mind very much that he always wants to do things his way, even if I’m better at it (like making a specific dish that is both our favourite when we have guest over), as he needs the apprecation much more than I do.

What I do object to, is when he depreciates me in front of other people. This has to do with being courteous and respectful towards me. The same goes for excluding me from certain circles/events that are very important to him.
Can’t tell you yet how that worked out though... . It became a major thing and resulted in a sort of break up, with 1 year of NC. At the moment we’re re-establishing some sort of contact, but for me this disrespect-thing needs to be resolved if we were to pick up the thread again. So I’m also thinking about ways to work with that: what are the exact remarks, behaviours, etc that make me feel disrespected, and how could we change that, what would I need from him... And boy, it’s difficult to find out where I need to draw a line and what I’m willing to put up with... .

[hergestridge]

He excludes me from social circles that are important for him.

I don't mean to go off-topic too much, but this really intrigued me.

I have come to a point where I feel I must do exactly this towards my BPDw to regain some sort of dignity in my life. I always wanted her to be as involved as possible in my life and to meet people that were important to me, but now I feel she only "holds me down" and lowers my self esteem so I prefer if she stays at home.

What are those social circles/events that are important to him? And why doesn't he want you aroound?

And how does a person with BPD even maintain a "social circle" and get invited to events on regular basis? My wife gets - though being high functioning - gets herself thrown out of all those things sooner or later.

[MissyM]

The only way that my dBPDh seems to value me is over my looks or if we are with other people expressing value for me.  He has lied to many people about me, so those that don't know me believe him.  My dBPDh has tried devaluing with people that know me and they think he is  just a nut, or they disagree with him and he stops.  In his mind, he values me all the time and I don't value him.  The projection gets old.

[Jonie]

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[elemental]

Jonie, your BPD sounds like he had strong NPD traits. It is common for there to be co-morbidity of BPD and NPD.

[Jonie]

Hi Zencat, maybe, I've read and heard about NPD, and so far it doesn't really seem to fit with him. But then I don't understand NPD yet

[Jonie]

.

[empathic]

I would have to say "not really". When she's in a good mood, she can sometimes say things indirectly like "you have such a great dad" to the kids. Contrast this with her yelling to me "you don't do anything". Confusing to say the least.

She is rather competitive so I don't think she wants me to succeed in a way that overshadows her. If my parents compliment me, she's quick to make some sarcastic comment. I have noticed other couples where they seem proud of eachother and I can say I'm rather envious of that. I have experienced that it's hard to show appreciation and pride for someone who never gives you the same back.

Regarding social circles, I too find that she holds me down. She wants to be the center of everyone's attention and that means she never includes me in any conversations. I find myself sometimes having to interrupt her when she's just starting to say something, to ever get to say anything myself. In a way it ties in to the above, if you are proud of someone I think you'd usually include them in conversations somehow. Never happens here. I also feel that these days I can't really be myself when I meet people and my wife is around, because it's difficult to juggle walking on eggshells at the same time you need to take part in conversations... . takes a lot of brain effort to filter out things that might upset her and that I will hear about afterwards. Easier to meet people by myself.

[hergestridge]

I'm an artist too. Most other artist I know who have families have SOs suppotive enough to take care of the kids for one night when there is a performance or event. My BPDw assumes that I'll get a babysitter and that she (my wife) will come along to the performance.

To her it's just another party and it pisses her off that she's not invited. It's the opposite of pride. She disrespects a special occasion.

[an0ught]

She is rather competitive so I don't think she wants me to succeed in a way that overshadows her. If my parents compliment me, she's quick to make some sarcastic comment. I have noticed other couples where they seem proud of eachother and I can say I'm rather envious of that. I have experienced that it's hard to show appreciation and pride for someone who never gives you the same back.

Boundaries can contribute a lot here to improve the situation. By separating the playing fields and having a playing field for our own we avoid the direct comparison. I know it is hard to get there as it is equivalent to moving the relationship out of the enmeshed state but with a steady focus on keeping some stuff distinctly apart and a few extinction bursts over time one get there.

It may sound counter-intuitive that boundaries can contribute to being appreciated. But consider the situation - often both sides have weak ego's in an enmeshed relationship. Of course when one looks closely and is rational then it is clear who contributes what. But if one thinks with little regard for boundaries and becomes a bit emotional the line dividing the two sides blurs a lot. Who can say who did what - why can't I feel the triumphs were due to my contribution and the failures due to the other side? Perfectly rational in a universe of blurred lines.

There is a saying: "Prices are Determined at the Margin" and I suppose that without a clear line the value can't be properly determined.

[MissyM]

It is interesting to me that other people value me but my dBPDh does not.  Other people realize the value in the volunteer work I do and my parenting, as well as the fact that I take good care of myself and my family.  Again, this week my dBPDh said he was tired of being in a relationship where he is responsible for another adult.  When he is disregulated, he becomes severely entitled.  He is entitled to wife that is attractive  (check), good cook (check), good mother (check), makes a lot of money herself (no) and takes total care of him without him giving back anything (uh, not anymore).  It is delusional, he doesn't provide things in this relationship besides money and watching the kids a total of 12 hours a week while I do recovery work from codependency (which he greatly resents doing).  He also resents that people that know both of us, prefer me.  I am generally kinder and more willing to help, not to an extent that I am a pushover. Instead of recognizing that I am good with people as an asset, he just resents it.

[empathic]

She is rather competitive so I don't think she wants me to succeed in a way that overshadows her. If my parents compliment me, she's quick to make some sarcastic comment. I have noticed other couples where they seem proud of eachother and I can say I'm rather envious of that. I have experienced that it's hard to show appreciation and pride for someone who never gives you the same back.

Boundaries can contribute a lot here to improve the situation. By separating the playing fields and having a playing field for our own we avoid the direct comparison. I know it is hard to get there as it is equivalent to moving the relationship out of the enmeshed state but with a steady focus on keeping some stuff distinctly apart and a few extinction bursts over time one get there.

It may sound counter-intuitive that boundaries can contribute to being appreciated. But consider the situation - often both sides have weak ego's in an enmeshed relationship. Of course when one looks closely and is rational then it is clear who contributes what. But if one thinks with little regard for boundaries and becomes a bit emotional the line dividing the two sides blurs a lot. Who can say who did what - why can't I feel the triumphs were due to my contribution and the failures due to the other side? Perfectly rational in a universe of blurred lines.

There is a saying: "Prices are Determined at the Margin" and I suppose that without a clear line the value can't be properly determined.

Yes, what you say rings true. I have a history of diminishing myself while lifting up others around me. Something I need to work a lot on. I had hoped to not have to work on something like that in my own marriage, but here I am.

It won't be easy, because of the competitiveness my wife reacts badly if she thinks I'm trying to make myself seem "better" than her. I suppose those would be the extinction bursts you talk about.