And she is back to asking me to take a lie detector test

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I think I mensioned this before a while back but she is wanting me to take a lie detector. She thinks I have to be cheating. Its the only way she can rationalize me being more acertive.  What sparked it again is yet another thing that troubles me. We were watching a TV show and fiction got translated into reality in her mind. The female villan was in police custody and was told her villan husband was cheating on her and raping and killing strange women. She flat out denyed he would do that. She then askes the female detective how she  would know if her husband were to be unfaithful. The replay was "A wife knows, and I can tell you know I am telling you the truth"

My wife looks at me and said see a wife knows and I know you have been cheating. I denied any such thing including the thought of wanting to. That was a honest truth. That isn't in me to do. Her next statement was prove it. Take a lie detector. Having noting to hide I said fine you set it up.

I'm not sure how to appraoch this because on 1 hand I know the results will show me to be telling the truth. However I think it will only pasify her for that point in time. Then the next time she feels that way about me she will want to do it again and again and again. Or on the other hand she will flat out not believe the results. She said as much before to.

[Cipher13]

I think I mensioned this before a while back but she is wanting me to take a lie detector. She thinks I have to be cheating. Its the only way she can rationalize me being more acertive.  What sparked it again is yet another thing that troubles me. We were watching a TV show and fiction got translated into reality in her mind. The female villan was in police custody and was told her villan husband was cheating on her and raping and killing strange women. She flat out denyed he would do that. She then askes the female detective how she  would know if her husband were to be unfaithful. The replay was "A wife knows, and I can tell you know I am telling you the truth"

My wife looks at me and said see a wife knows and I know you have been cheating. I denied any such thing including the thought of wanting to. That was a honest truth. That isn't in me to do. Her next statement was prove it. Take a lie detector. Having noting to hide I said fine you set it up.

I'm not sure how to appraoch this because on 1 hand I know the results will show me to be telling the truth. However I think it will only pasify her for that point in time. Then the next time she feels that way about me she will want to do it again and again and again. Or on the other hand she will flat out not believe the results. She said as much before to.

[Waddams]

No rational proof will ever be enough for an irrational mind. You know you're not cheating.  That's enough.  She's pushing you on this not just out of her fear and wanting reassurance/proof, but also control.  She just wants to know you'll do what she tells you and wants you to stop asserting yourself.

JMHO, but don't cave in.  You know it won't solve anything, so don't embolden her further.  You said in your other thread that her family said you had let her push you around too much.  If you give into this, you're letting her do it again.

[SunflowerFields]

"Sounds like fun! Let's both take it!   

What, you don't want to? Why, what are you afraid of?

Nothing? Well, wanting me to take it and not wanting to take one yourself sounds like a double standard to me. I'm sure you don't want that!"

[Pearl55]

You are in a GAME cipher, ridiculous games in general. Yes you must prove yourself to her and after you will, what will happen? She thinks there must be something wrong with you to want to prove yourself to a damaged woman. There is a no win situation with a borderline!

I think you took your marriage so seriously. Please learn as much as you can about BPD.

[Wrongturn1]

+1 on what Waddams said.  She's trying to control you, and she wouldn't believe the results anyway.  If you feel like you have to take a lie detector test b/c you said you would, then I agree with SunflowerFields - only do it on the condition that your wife will take the same test. 

I can see that the assertive new you has thrown your wife for a loop.  Now is not the time for you to back down.  Stay strong and keep fighting for a healthier situation for yourself!

[maxsterling]

Its a trap that she won't let you win.  I'd suggest refusing.  You say yes, and you enable her distortions.  If you pass the test, you won't solve anything.  She's already down an irrational road without evidence.  Taking the test will only send her further down that irrational road because you are validating her irrational thought process.  If you say "no" she uses that as proof you are cheating.  You can't win.  She doesn't trust you, and that is a flaw in her that you can't do anything about.  Maybe if you ask her to take one too, she will drop the subject. 

I feel for you.

[SunflowerFields]

If you feel like you have to take a lie detector test b/c you said you would, then I agree with SunflowerFields - only do it on the condition that your wife will take the same test.  

The point is not acquiescing to her irrational demands. The point is twofold: to make it known that whatever someone feels free to demand from you (which is anyone's perogative in the end), they should be prepared to do it themselves,  and instead of the confrontational approach, make it appear as "together" approach.

I would argue that if Cipher took this stance, the possibility of her agreeing is highly remote. Basically, it's about calling a bluff. Knowing who you're dealing with is the first rule of the Art of War, and any relationship management

There are of course boundaries to this - if someone demands you to jump from a highrise, doesn't mean you'll do it if they agree to do it with you  Employ reason

[Cipher13]

I enjoyed all your comments on this. I know it completely ridiculous. Especialy when there isn't a shred of proof. I do want to comment on the idea  of taking the demand upon and asking it also of her. I have tried this before. Before I began to learn about BPD. Now I plan to use this even more. Especialy when it comes to doing things around the house like cleaning, cooking, dishes, laundry, and gettin gher own gas in her car.  I know her crutch for the reasoning she uses is her job and how horrible it is and stressful.  Guess what you still need to live and function with a bad job as much as you need to with a good job. 

By the way I'm not taking the test. She won't set it up. And if she does she will be taking it to.

[GaGrl]

This is the type of irrational request and behavior that really needs to be taken in to the therapist's office.  It's the only way the therapist is going to get a full and deep sense of what's going on with her that is really, really out of kilter.

"Ms. X, today I'd like to discuss a request/demand that my wife made of me, because it indicates she does not trust me, and I saw it as excessive."

And see what happens.

[Cipher13]

This is the type of irrational request and behavior that really needs to be taken in to the therapist's office.  It's the only way the therapist is going to get a full and deep sense of what's going on with her that is really, really out of kilter.

"Ms. X, today I'd like to discuss a request/demand that my wife made of me, because it indicates she does not trust me, and I saw it as excessive."

And see what happens

I will do that. I would like to poit out that my wife did show the T a few of her irrational requests or trains of thought on how she felt about me. Black and white thinking came trough. Wife didn't like being called out oto do a task that helped her bring in some positive thoughts when she is feeling upset. She told me it was dumb and a waste. She won't and cant get to that place to think of something positive in our realtionshipd when she is raging.

[GaGrl]

The operative phrase you are using is... . "she won't and can't."

[ogopogodude]

"Sounds like fun! Let's both take it!   

That is soo funny…... I like that….

[Cipher13]

Do there minds never leave the dark places? This a copy o fthe email I got this morning:

So yesterday you said "it's a good thing we didnt go to the other McDonald's all the accounting peeps were going there". Why is that a good thing? Because you didnt want them to see you with me? Because you are embarrassed by me? Because you didn't want me to see the chick you are doing? Why did you say that

Really? we had a good lunch. I had a good time and I told her I did. Then this morning I get this. I'm really surprised I haven't been commited yet.

[Pearl55]

Cipher13

A borderline looks for a PARENT in her/his relationship because she is only a 3 year old! No matter what you do is NEVER enough. Her greatest fear is rejection and abandonment ( seperation anxiety of a 3 year old from her mum). You are trying to have a adult relationship with her and that's not ever possible!

[Wrongturn1]

Do there minds never leave the dark places? This a copy o fthe email I got this morning:

So yesterday you said "it's a good thing we didnt go to the other McDonald's all the accounting peeps were going there". Why is that a good thing? Because you didnt want them to see you with me? Because you are embarrassed by me? Because you didn't want me to see the chick you are doing? Why did you say that

That's pretty abusive of her to send you that BS line of questioning.  How did you answer it?

[maxsterling]

wow.  She is always looking for some hidden meaning; always looking for evidence you are manipulating or lying.  She's got her mind made up that something is amiss, and will distort anything in order to make it prove her "reality".  

I've been through that, but maybe not to this extreme (yet).

I've had her make comments about "other girlfriends" but I don't think she is actually serious, only trying to be joking or cute - I think.  I don't think she actually believes there is one, but I think sometimes she doesn't understand why I don't have another girlfriend.  

My thought is that this stems from early childhood teachings.  My girlfriend's mother WAS manipulative, and mean, and abusive.   That is the model she has - that all men are jerks who cheat and they must be cheating or plotting.  She's also cheated before (she's told me), and she doesn't understand the brain of a person who doesn't do that, and has never done that.  Your wife is assuming your brain works just like hers, or works just like someone from her childhood who abandoned her.  And there is no possible way you can convince her otherwise.  Trying to prove to her that you are faithful will get you nowhere but further in the pit of despair.  About all you can do is dethatch from her distorted reality and live your life.

[Cipher13]

That's pretty abusive of her to send you that BS line of questioning.  How did you answer it?

My reply :First of all I want to say that I am not embarrassed to be with you. I am proud and happy to be with you any and every time we can be together. The reason it was a good thing I though was to avoid a conversation like this were you accuse me of something that isn’t remotely true. Looking back at it now I wish I didn’t say it or at the very least worded it differently. Since I don’t have any contact with that department no one there knows me. Half of it is dudes anyway. The whole idea behind what I meant to say was that I just wanted to avoid an accusation or comment that have no truth to it what so ever. I never had an malicious intent behind it what so ever.

[Wrongturn1]

I'm guessing she was not entirely satisfied with your reply.   

You might keep it shorter next time to avoid giving her additional ammunition to feel invalidated and come after you... . maybe something along the lines of "not embarrassed of you; the accounting people from the office are boring, and I didn't want to have to spend my lunch hour with them."

[Waddams]

anything construed as defending yourself will only bring more attacks.  instead, figure out a way to sympathize with her fear while also setting healthy boundaries.

perhaps a response like "i'm sorry you're feeling insecure (sympathy).  i don't have anything to hide (truth).  it is stressing me and i don't know how to reassure you sometimes (truth).  when you're feeling this, can you just try saying you're feeling it and let me give you a hug?  (suggesting a new response/behavior for her to use - people don't change old behaviors, they have to train to replace them)  i want you to be reassured (notice you are not saying you are going to do it all for her!) and am more than willing to do what I can (it's reasonable to be open to being loving and comforting to your spouse when they are feeling distressed, but it's also implied that you can only do so much)."

and when the inevitable first dismissive/mocking/angry response comes, you just respond with something to the effect that you aren't going to get ugly and love her, and are open to new ways of handling these issues that will work better for both of you.  focus on the future, and desire to improve it, without blaming her for anything.

of course, that still might not break through her BPD shields, and she might not ever get better.  that's the nature of mental illness.  BPD's think they are right in how they act!  that's why they do it.  but you can revamp yourself into someone that doesn't get drawn into the catch-22's and endless loops of conflict they set up.  and that will be very freeing for you.

[123Phoebe]

Do there minds never leave the dark places? This a copy o fthe email I got this morning:

So yesterday you said "it's a good thing we didnt go to the other McDonald's all the accounting peeps were going there". Why is that a good thing? Because you didnt want them to see you with me? Because you are embarrassed by me? Because you didn't want me to see the chick you are doing? Why did you say that

Really? we had a good lunch. I had a good time and I told her I did. Then this morning I get this. I'm really surprised I haven't been commited yet.

That's pretty abusive of her to send you that BS line of questioning.  How did you answer it?

My reply :First of all I want to say that I am not embarrassed to be with you. I am proud and happy to be with you any and every time we can be together. The reason it was a good thing I though was to avoid a conversation like this were you accuse me of something that isn’t remotely true. Looking back at it now I wish I didn’t say it or at the very least worded it differently. Since I don’t have any contact with that department no one there knows me. Half of it is dudes anyway. The whole idea behind what I meant to say was that I just wanted to avoid an accusation or comment that have no truth to it what so ever. I never had an malicious intent behind it what so ever.

Cipher, does a part of you enjoy the drama?  Sprinkling your own eggshells around to tip-toe over/stomp?  I'm not understanding your reasoning for telling your wife "it's a good thing we didnt go to the other McDonald's all the accounting peeps were going there".  Sounds like an inner-thought that needn't be said out loud, when you attach your reasoning behind it.

It also sounds like your wife is hip to passive-aggression and that she knew the comment was aimed at her in some way... . malicious or not.

We have to step away from this sort of thing (blame, JADE, casting confusion), if there's going to be any kind of positive change.

If you enjoyed having lunch with your wife, then how about leaving it at that?

[Cipher13]

123Phoebe

I had thought of that to. There are soem days when I shake my head and wonder just why I said anything at all. I have thought I try to stir the pot at times to get it to the point where maybe she decides to walk away. Thats not fare.  I could and should do a much better job with my communication with her especailly when it comes to work related converstions.  Thanks for pointing that out. Sometimes I need to have that addressed to me especially from and outsider. That truly helps.