Minimal contact working for us

[qcarolr]

My BPDDD27 has been living homeless again for about 3 weeks. My dh and I believe that her choice to avoid her probation, and the warrants for violation that are now out there for her, is not a solution to her life. We have shared this with her is several ways, including cooperation with the authorities. I am actually glad that DD is keeping her location unknown to us.

She was angry in her call the first week, asking for help in finding her lost/stolen phone-food-clothes the next week, seeking reassurance of our love this past week. I believe she is with a new person this week as she is on a different phone number when she calls. I have been able to be direct with her about our financial support only being available if she turns herself in - phone account and weekly funds for her personal needs while in jail.

She says "I am almost ready". This could be true - or this is what she thinks I need to hear in order to talk with her in a caring way. She will always be a puzzle to me - I have told her of my struggle to step into her shoes and see things from her perspective.

And I see this changing. Not that I will change my boundary about her not being on our property, not seeing gd8, or any other financial support outside outside of jail. Today I can feel her frustration, pain, sense of betrayal and abandonment. This is based in her truth that she has done nothing to deserve any of the charges, therefore, none of the consequences are valid.

What she seems blinded to are that these consequences are beyond anyone's control other than the court. She has been convicted of the DWAI by a jury, she pleaded guilty to the harassment and no-contact violations. The sentences will not go away without her acceptance of the conditions of her sentences. There are four cases, four warrants. And I have shared that she was indeed harassing her exbf, just as she has harassed everyone in her circle of care for years. Dh pressed charges once when she was 17 -- no change in DD came from that. Dh and I ended up in 12 months of family therapy that the counselor had made voluntary for DD! And now at 27 her exbf pressed charges to get her out of his face before he blew up and assaulted her. That is DD's pattern under the influence of the black cloud of mental illness and substance use -- to push the other over the edge until she has relieved herself of all personal responsibility. This has been her pattern since before age 2 -- push away the very person she needs the most in that moment.

Here is a link to a thread about Object Constancy. I really really like the quote from Gunderson from Skip near the beginning of this thread. I have clearly seen "The 3 Levels of Emotions found in Borderline Personality" with DD many times.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=70884.0

For me, as long as DD refuses to participate in treatment she will be stuck in this loop. I have a very deep sadness about this, accepting at last that any impact from me is minimal to get her bumped off this roller-coaster. And I have given everything I possibly can to have an impact on her for all of her 27 years.

So I am focusing on some personal areas where I am starting to feel passion in my life. Dh is sad that he is not in the middle of this. Alas, it is an internal process for me right now supported by friends in my faith community. Dh is barely on the fringe of this, though he is supportive of the peace that I find here.

GD8 is doing really well. She has responded well to the Adderall for her ADHD. She has gained in so many areas of her life in the past 2 months. Advanced 8 levels in her reading that was stagnant for the past 9 months. Making new friends at school. Talking clearly about what she needs. Telling her stories clearly about what she fears so she can begin working more diligently in her therapy with these traumas.

The adderral does push her mood - greater aggression in the evening. Thankfully a small increase in the meds she takes for her anxiety and PTSD help with this. So much sadness that I did not protect her better. I did not know. I was locked in the belief that I could facilitate the bond between her and DD. My own therapy, with  a personal T and with gd's T, is helping me see where my own attachment and loss issues throughout my life have impacted how I relate to my girls, DD and gd.

So I feel lots of progress with the distance from DD. I desire to keep on this path. DD is a grown up woman and has to manage her grown up life day by day. My task is to share that I love her with my whole heart and be direct with her about my truths. I do want to find a way to validate her truths as real for her, even though they are so opposed to mine.

Lots to ponder here. Thanks for listening. You are all in my thoughts and prayers, even when I am not here reading your stories.

qcr

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[six]

QC

My heart goes out to you. 

Thanks for the update. 

it sounds like after all the trauma you have experienced, you have found a place of balance for yourself.

I hope to hear good news from you soon.

-6

[lever.]

It is good to hear from you qcr. Your posts have been a real example to me in the thoughtful way you approach very difficult situations and your compassion and care for your daughter. You truly have done everything possible.

Wishing you, your daughter and all your family the best

[MammaMia]

qcr

You are a very strong woman.  You have reached a point where your dd needs to stand on her own two feet.  I applaud your decision for the sake of the rest of your family, especially your gd who is very lucky to have you in her life providing normalcy, stability, and love.   

Do not forget about taking care of yourself through all of the drama and trauma.  You deserve to be happy as well.

Wishing you comfort and peace.

[Verbena]

qcr, it's good to hear from you.  You have had so much strength for so long.  It sounds like you are in a good place now. I will continue to keep you in my prayers.

[qcarolr]

Yesterday evening was very difficult for dh and I. It feels like turning my back with so little love in my actions while my heart is breaking. I feel so stuck in a cleft in a cliff.

DD text about 6:30. Sick, bad infection near ear, lots of pain. Can I take her to urgent care or ER. I was just coming in with groceries and putting some food on table. I texted if she had somewhere to go after -"well maybe". Texted "where are u - what city". Then she texted "I am getting dropped off at the house". YIKES. She cannot come here at all. She was at the park a block from our house then to wait for me. I left with food on my plate and groceries all around the kitchen.

The only way to be with her is to be detached and quiet. I know if I show any feelings at all the risk of just bringing her home is too great. She did have two abscesses - one by her ear and one on her belly. The more questions the doc/nurses asked the more irritable DD got about my not taking care of her.

I tried to remain quiet, any comment met with a negative comment to the care giver. I wanted to scream out -- DD you are the one that got kicked out of detox 4 weeks ago with another infection. You are the one that has refused treatment and therapy while we paid for you to trash out 4 motel rooms with your homeless 'friends'. That have stolen all your stuff. Take some responsibility and get your life moving!

When she said "so why are you here", I said I don't know. And I left. It was snowing outside - called dh - he told me "she is in pain, we are in pain, come home so we can talk".

So I went home, got gd in shower and ready for bed, packed a couple bags with clean clothes for DD (she looked awful and had very little with her). Dh took it to her at ER and returned home. She called me sobbing - how can I carry all this. I said ask for a taxi voucher or something to get to a friends. SHe sobbed I have no friends.

I had to hang up and turn my phone off. She tried to call 4 more times, then nothing after that.

I have not made any contact to her, only answered when she calls me. I don't know how to love her in all this. She refuses to go to jail and face her probation violations. She refuses to do probation.

I pray she stays alive.

We cannot allow DD's neediness and pain to drag us underwater. I hope she is not alone today. I cannot contact her to ask.

Her other indirect request - she got a new smartphone on 24 month plan (she lost the one on our family plan and we are not replacing it). She needs to pay the first monthly bill soon. She REALLY LIKES IT. I did not even respond. I knew she was wanting me to offer to pay for this.

Yuck.

Dh is buying a covered cargo trailer, that he can use for other stuff later, to store her stuff in. We are re-purposing her room for a project room. It will cost about what 2 years of a storage unit would, but he is not paying out anymore for her. He really was in pain, and wanted to just toss all her stuff into the field behind our house. I want to hug all of it to my heart and cry. Guess we each cope in our own ways. So we hugged each other instead after gd asleep.

qcr

[MammaMia]

qcr

My heart is breaking for you right now. 

We always wonder when the madness will end, don't we?  We have all suffered so much at the hands of this cruel disorder ... . our children, our families, ourselves.  Some days there is just no comfort for all of the pain.

God bless you and your h and keep you safe and strong.  Please know we all care about you.

[vivekananda]

Hi qcr  

I remember when I first met you and was struck by your determination to come to grips with the trauma in your life, how far you have come! I hope you are reassured with that knowledge, because I am immensely reassured by your example.

Those of us with children with BPD come to learn to accept that our life isn't going to be the way we want it. We want our children to live a normal life and to be happy. We come to learn that we cannot solve their problems for them, kiss where it hurts and make it all better. Our challenges are different and there are many of us, when we face these challenges together, we find support and strength to continue on. That's how I see it anyway.

I am strengthened and supported by your journey and learning and by the shared examples of others here too.

sending you and yours lots of positive energy,

Vivek

[mggt]

Dear qcr. Sending you hugs and prayers no matter what they do how old they get we never stop loving and hurting for them god bless

[swampped]

Dear qcr:          You are doing the right thing, and I pray for strength for you and dh to be able to let your dd struggle on for a bit.  She needs to hit bottom, as you well know, and you have to let that happen.  But oh, the pain!  Please know you are in my thoughts and prayers.  February is almost over.  Maybe with spring will come some clarity and peace for your dd.  In the meantime, stay stong!   Swampped

[peaceplease]

qcr,

   You remain in my prayers.  Praying for your dd to give up and turn herself in.  She had ample opportunities, and you gave her your all.  I hope that you can let go.  I know that the call that she was in pain and wanted to go to ER was a tough one.

Praying for your peace.  Peace for your dh and gd. 


peaceplease

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[qcarolr]

I did not know where to turn for comfort and support last night. Choosing to come here today was so very much the best choice. You all really 'get it'. How much I can love my DD and how detached I am able to become so she can learn what she needs to learn. And to accept, radically accept that it is just as likely she will not learn and it is she will learn. At least for now.

PEACE. That has been my search - my written down life goal - since first coming to bpdfamily in 2009. And letting go of DD. Plus raising gd in a healthy environment.

Tonight, I am able to breath again. Seems like I was holding my breath for about 24 hours. My face was even looking a little blue!  So I am clearing out DD's room. This feels good to me. To wash her piles of clothing and blankets. To set aside her special trinkets, books, papers, stuffies. They will all get put in tubs for the little 6'x10' trailer we are getting. It can sit in our backyard until she needs her stuff. Dh can drive to meet her anywhere if she wants to go through it.

Somehow going with dh and gd to look at this trailer for sale helped me tonight. Settled something in me. Gave me back a bit of peace.

Thank you my friends for being here today when I needed you most.

qcr

[lever.]

All I can send is heartfelt support and prayers. I have learned so much from you but it must be so difficult for you. I hope that your daughter is taken to a safer environment soon

[yogablue]

Stay strong qc, my heart breaks for you and your family. I am pleased you have found some peace.  I can so relate to you, as my motto for years has been that I want a peaceful life.  We love our kids, but they can break our hearts.  It is wonderful that you are creating a loving environment for your gd.

yogablue   

[crumblingdad]

Sorry you're going through such a difficult time.  I'm so glad we can be some semblance of support for you.  Letting go and detaching like that can be such a difficult process and particularly as long a road as you've been down and so involved you've been.

Keep focusing on peace it's a terrific goal and one that allows you to make yourself a priority which will give your gd the best possible care and strength.

 

[Thursday]

When we hurt we are seeing things from a vantage point that isn't always very helpful, big picture wise.

That's why someone else's viewpoint can often be just what we need. That's why we can (and do) help one another here.

I have told her of my struggle to step into her shoes and see things from her perspective.

And I see this changing. Not that I will change my boundary about her not being on our property, not seeing gd8, or any other financial support outside outside of jail. Today I can feel her frustration, pain, sense of betrayal and abandonment.

When our empathy is compromised by our sick loved-one's skewed perspective, sometimes all we can do is what you and your DH are doing. And do you see how quickly the door to your heart can reopen to "feel her" again? Don't let her negative-neediness wrap it's tentacles around your heart because they will indeed squeeze any remaining life out of you.

Those tentacles are just what has worked easiest and best so far because she hasn't really HAD TO FIND A BETTER WAY. Your boundaries can not only keep you safe they can, as you have begun to see, really open a door to reacquaint you with the loving feeling you are not only entitled to but strive so hard to keep. I know you have no idea which way your DD will go with this latest challenge but at least you are not having to sacrifice everyone else in the process. So sad my dear... . but true.

Your DD stays in denial about her role in all of this because she doesn't want to be hurtful to those she loves but she is so lost, SHE DOESN'T YET KNOW A BETTER WAY.

Keep hopeful. I keep seeing, over and over again in this life, when the scales tip they go in favor of good. We don't know when or why or exactly how, just have to trust it. And I think you already have that part down. 



Thursday

[qcarolr]

Well minimal contact, and my walking out of the ER, resulted in DD losing it on the phone to me (instead of in my face in the ER most likely). She was arrested and taken to county jail upon discharge from ER. She called me tonight very disoriented. Not even sure how long she had been in jail - mostly sleeping until tonight. She said she had been there 5 days, I said "well I saw you in hospital day before yesterday? Ah, then her memory started to work again.

She asked for money for shampoo etc. on her commissary account, phone account funded, and for us to write letters. Plus a picture of 'my daughter. you do not have a daughter or granddaughter'. She feels unloved.

I have been here before. Yet this time I am feeling relief for her. The past two weeks moving around have been hard on her. It will take about a month for meds. they will provide to take good effect. Maybe there will come a time she can believe that I cannot get her needs met. She has to reach out to professionals for this - ie. treatment and therapy.

I am hoping for at least 90 days for her. She will get treatment opportunities in jail - lots of them - if she can choose to participate. It is a very recovery/rehab focused facility. Very recovery/rehab focused court system. Hope they get it that probation is not an option that will work. It NEVER HAS --

Gotta go call Mexico. The daddy of my gs6 left messages asking about his son. Had to turn on international calling on my cell. We could not even answer his calls for some reason. This is DD's actual ex-hubby. Only lasted short time. They did have intention of being a family for this little boy -- just not in their reality. We stayed detached, he was in foster care at 5 mos. and adopted by foster parents at age 2. The process took too long. He is a happy kindergartner living in another state with a very loving extended family. I can see him on his mom's facebook. There is no direct contact since the adoption.

What an interesting and challenging life my family has. Trying to keep it all in perspective.

Thanks for all your prayers. I will start a new thread to update after her hearing on Wednesday.

qcr

[peaceplease]

qcr,

Oh, what a relief!   Thank God!  How awesome!  No more running for her!

Thank you for the update!  

Also, great to hear about your gs doing so well with his adoptive family.

[mggt]

Dear qcr, Great news please try and get some rest when you lay your head on the pillow at night you now have peace that she is safe , that is the worst time of the day I think .  Your a wonderful mom good luck 

[lever.]

Happy to hear that she is somewhere safe, hope you can relax a little

[MammaMia]

qcr

I agree with the others that your dd is now off the streets and will be cared for.  I know it is so very hard for you, but you must feel tremendous relief at the same time. 

Please take care of yourself.  Things have a way of working out for the best.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[qcarolr]

Yet, I allow phone calls. They are filled with anger. DD says, just talk with me, show you care. And then she brings up a sensitive topic. I just can't fine the words to be validating. I am too defensive.

No rest today. My T says limit my contact. Why is this so hard for me?

qcr

[Verbena]

qcr, this has all been excruciatingly painful for you.  You have tried and tried and given and given, but there is a limit.  Anyone who knows your situation can see just how much you love your daughter--except for your daughter herself.  You have to remember that people with BPD are like big buckets with giant holes in the bottom.  It doesn't matter how much you put in them, they are never full. 

I will continue to keep you in my prayers.

[peaceplease]

qcr,

Oh, qcr, the jail phone calls!  I did not have calls filled with anger, but they were constant pleading for one thing or another.    

Also, told my dd that she could not call me everyday.  And, she called several times a day.  She cried that she was going crazy and not to deny her calls.  I was the one who was angry, as she did it to herself.  Sometimes, I took more than one call.  I was surprised that she was allowed to call so much.  It reached a point where I told her that extra phone call I took meant minus a call the following day.

I know it is hard, but try to limit her calls.  Can you make a boundary with the phone calls and the topics that are too sensitive for you?  Please help qcr!  


peaceplease

[qcarolr]

I silenced my phone when she called while I was getting dinner. I am not going to answer until tomorrow evening. She has a hearing at the jail tomorrow afternoon.

The bond on the complaint I filed in September is $20,000. Wow. I guess she was right when she told me that 4th case was really bad. She just doesn't get it that her exbf could not be at our house, and she did not turn him away.

For me it is about her inability to take personal responsibility for the consequences of her actions. She does not believe she has done anything wrong so the consequences are not fair and should not apply. Speaking to her about any of this is futile. Yet she keeps bringing it up, and blaming me.

She refuses to accept that someone else can be an advocate for her. Only I can 'get it'. In some ways she is right. She does not understand how to work in the 'system'. Whether it is jail, disability, social services, housing... . She truly does not know the questions to ask or how to answer what she is asked. I do get this is part of her LD sometimes. I have watched it over and over.

This belief, whether accurate or not in the current situation, makes it really hard for me to step completely out of the game.

Example. I went to jail today to check her books before I put money in her commissary account. Everybody deserves to have a brush, shampoo and conditioner. Well there is a $780 fee still on her books from last fall that should have been removed. It should have never been charged. If I had not called booking and explained the story about this fee, and why it did not apply, they would have retained any monies I put on the books for personal care items. They did this with about $100 dollars last fall.  Dd does not know how to cope with this. And the jail staff are not very compassionate when she asks questions. They often do not want to share any info with me either. So I was somewhat surprised when they talked with me about this today.

So, I just cannot let her go entirely. I like to feel needed. I am just tired of hearing the same story about my part in the failures in her life. And I have no control over what she chooses to talk about, ask, or her feelings about any of this that she expresses to me.

So I am going to limit her to one call a day, or every other day. I have said this to her today. I will say it to her each time -- when I will take the next call. Dh and I have set a limit on the commissary money each month. I will write her a letter, then wait to get a reply back before I write another. (mine get there in a day, hers take a week to get back to me) I will not visit. I will not force gd to write to her a take a call.

I will look for joy being in my life each day, and turn my mind back moment by moment to the present moment and the next physical step I am to take. Being present. That is really all my God asks of me. To be present this moment. For me this goes beyond being mindful. And when it works, it is awesome for me. I can do this. I can do this. I can do this. BE PRESENT.

Prayers for me to be present are also appreciated. It does not always work.

qcr

[qcarolr]

And then I read another thread about how our pwBPD twist the black into white and back again to avoid taking responsibility.  I have to remind myself to allow things to settle for a bit -- she is still 'hot' -- and for her meds. to work on her panic.

Sadness is reading a letter from jail back in Dec2009 -- when we got the no contact order except for letters. And how her life has changed so little in this 5 years. Just different bf names along the way. Same ol' patterns.

She will be the same as long as she refuses treatment. I have to remember this. Harden my heart a bit against this to endure.

qcr

[qcarolr]

Frustrated with the court today. Checked with booking after DD hearing at jail. They show sentenced today to 1 year probation, back to PACE program. Not clear when she will be released to PACE. What is different so it will work now?

She has no place to stay and will be homeless again. We cannot pay for any more living quarters. We cannot pay for her new phone account, though I will get her info to check on it tomorrow when she calls.

Spoke to DD today. She was very tearful and wanting her psych meds. she is not getting. Her MRSA is better and she took her dressing and drain off this morning. She apologized for yelling yesterday. I apologized for not being a better listener. I was angry too. Said I would only accept one call a day. She borrowed some shampoo from another inmate and got to shower and wash her hair today.

Still struggling to figure out her commissary account. Have to call Home Dentention tomorrow to get fee removed from her account. It is $728 for detention that she was unable to do because she was in jail!

I know you all say to let her go entirely and rest. This does not lead to rest. It goes against my values of kindness, compassion and serving 'the least of these'.

Got a new book today for dh and I to read (he 'reads' by what I share - he does listen and discuss with me). "Parenting Adult Children: Real Stories... . " by Fred Schloemer, EdD.  I liked what I read in the excerpt at Amazon. Will let you know what I think. My guess that it is 'light' for our BPDkids. I am looking for support and validation in the choices ahead for us.

qcr

[peaceplease]

qcr,

I am confused.  They gave her one year probation and the PACE program?  Will they house for PACE program?  If not, that makes no sense.  Or, wasn't there an option that she could attend PACE like a work release while she was in jail, before?  But, then, if she is on probation then that does not help.  Poor qcr!

I hope you can get some rest.  

peaceplease

[lever.]

Oh no qcr! What are they thinking? I couldn't let my DD go entirely in that situation either, I would never rest and it would be worse than all the running around and angry calls. We just feel for you because you have done all that is humanly possibly and more.

People often say to leave them to experience the consequences of their behaviour so that they will learn ( and there is a place for that) but its horrible when they just don't learn from consequences and keep getting in the same messes over and over.

You know much more than I do about setting boundaries to protect yourself while still trying to support your DD.

Take care, I really hoped that while she was in a residential setting you would get some respite.

[MammaMia]

qcr

I am confused. Your dd27 was given 1 year of probation on a charge with a $20,000 bail?  Wasn't she already on probation last fall which made the incident with the bf a violation of that probation? 

I wonder if the System is being lenient by taking her BPD into consideration at sentencing, hence the PACE Program?  Of course, that still does not explain where she will live, and she must have a home address to be on probation.  Maybe a half-way house or other structured setting? 

It really does not seem like she is facing much in the way of legal consequences. 

[qcarolr]

You all have no idea of my confusion and distress yesterday.

I called the clerk of the court just now. So DD has been sentenced for all four cases to run concurrent. She is to remain in jail for a new PACE evaluation to see if she qualifies for their program again. I do not know how long this will take. There are a few residential facilities run by the mental health center. I do not know if these would be in consideration for DD.

Everything coming at me says to wait, be in my day today, and let go of worries about the future. I need to let the court and the mental health staff figure it out. They do know more about DD's actions the past 4 months than I do. Can I put my validation skills to work now? Let go of knowing all the details?

The book I mentioned above - I read the whole thing last night. Nine real case studies of differing parent/adult child situations. I was just in awe that I fit into all but two: dealing with being cut out of our child's life, and dealing with gay issues for parent or child. It was worth reading, though much of the information is covered in the info in our sidebar at the right. I have been trying to practice most of this for a long time.

My work with both gd's T and my T. They are clear about DD not being in our home at all. They are trying to support me in limiting my contact and input into DD's life. They are trying to support me in focusing on myself, my marriage and gd.

Getting all of DD's stuff out of our house and into storage trailer is a key I believe. Being surrounded by her everytime I go into the basement brings too much emotional baggage up at once. THis will be good for Dh and gd too. How do I overcome my resistance to asking for help from my friends to get this done? I know there are a few that would be willing. I just have to ask.

My prayer, meditation, bible study -- stay present in the moment, let go of my worries about tomorrow as it out of my control. I will be able to deal with what comes as it happens and trying to predict only gets in the way.

My body -- it is telling me to get rest. I am in a flare up of pain, congestion, inflammation in general. No medication for this, only sunshine and rest and quieting my mind and heart.

Acceptance. Mindfulness.

Knowing what to do is only one step. Getting it done is my need now.

Thanks for all your feedback and support.

qcr

[lever.]

I haven't been to church in years but, reading your post the verse "sufficient onto the day is the evil thereof" came into my mind.

I think you are right and you need to let the authorities deal with it for now. It sounds as if you are going to be ill and need to rest as much as you can.

When my DDs problems were at their peak I developed an auto-immune disease and,even though its not thought to be stress related it flares up now whenever there is trouble.

Do try to let go as much as you can and look after yourself.

[Being Mindful]

Frustrated with the court today. Checked with booking after DD hearing at jail. They show sentenced today to 1 year probation, back to PACE program. Not clear when she will be released to PACE. What is different so it will work now?

She has no place to stay and will be homeless again. We cannot pay for any more living quarters. We cannot pay for her new phone account, though I will get her info to check on it tomorrow when she calls.

Spoke to DD today. She was very tearful and wanting her psych meds. she is not getting. Her MRSA is better and she took her dressing and drain off this morning. She apologized for yelling yesterday. I apologized for not being a better listener. I was angry too. Said I would only accept one call a day. She borrowed some shampoo from another inmate and got to shower and wash her hair today.

Still struggling to figure out her commissary account. Have to call Home Dentention tomorrow to get fee removed from her account. It is $728 for detention that she was unable to do because she was in jail!

I know you all say to let her go entirely and rest. This does not lead to rest. It goes against my values of kindness, compassion and serving 'the least of these'.

Got a new book today for dh and I to read (he 'reads' by what I share - he does listen and discuss with me). "Parenting Adult Children: Real Stories... . " by Fred Schloemer, EdD.  I liked what I read in the excerpt at Amazon. Will let you know what I think. My guess that it is 'light' for our BPDkids. I am looking for support and validation in the choices ahead for us.

qcr

qcr,

These are your beautiful qualities highlighted in red. However, you can still have kindness, compassion and serving by detaching with love.

Ask yourself, why do I need to attend to the brochures on a telephone. Why do I need to attend to her account at the jail. Let go qcr. There are more ways to detach too if you can look and get through the pain. I swear it gets easier, if you can start someplace.

[MammaMia]

qcr

Now you are talking!  It is time to step back and let your dd's life follow its own course.  She is fortunate that there are so many people working to help her.  What a blessing for both of you.

She is going to be cared for so stop worrying.

NOW, you need to accept what has happened and stop feeling as if you need to help.  You cannot fix this. Instead you must focus on your own life and the emotional struggles you are dealing with. You need to find inner peace and acceptance that you have done all you can.  You need to remain in the background, ready to support her, if she needs it, but the decisions for her recovery are hers.  

Do not be manipulated by all of the "what ifs" and "if onlys" going forward.  You WILL make yourself sick. Get some counseling to deal with your guilt.  Our children really know how to flip the guilt switch, but we cannot let them destroy us.  When they are miserable, they want EVERYONE to be miserable.  You CAN stop this.

Limiting contact and phone calls is a great way to start.  Your dd needs to get the message that she has created her problems and blaming you will not work.  You love and will support her minimally, but you will not bear the burden of her illness or behavior.  It is not your fault.  Removing her things from your home is a sign to her that you have had enough.  She needs to learn to rely on the PACE people and others who can actually improve her quality of life.

Stay strong qcr.  It will take time, but the less responsibility you take for your daughter's problems and the more she is forced to deal with them on her own, the better it will be for everyone.  She needs to learn she can take care of herself.  You will never stop loving her, but you can help make her stronger and more self-sufficient.

I wish you peace.  You are a kind and loving person.  Focus some of that kindness and love on yourself. You deserve it.

[qcarolr]

Spoke to DD on the phone today. She is begging to come home. I give the reasons she cannot. She cannot hear these.

Angry today in the insanity of the court recycling her into probation that has NEVER BEEN SUCCESSFUL.

Then got a call from a young woman, L, with the university criminal defense team. A law student that represented DD in hearing yesterday. DD asked her to call me with the need to have a place to live. I shared the 2 minute version of DD's life story. Shared trauma impacts of past few years on gd. That she just cannot live here. That I love her with my whole heart and can no longer be the advocate for her.

L gave me her cell number, and said she will continue to advocate for DD in the system. With the PACE staff -- looking for a place for her to live and get treatment.

Now it will be up to DD to accept what is offered. Even if it is something she does not want to do.

My T called too. Dh is home. Will put this away for the rest of today and seek to enjoy my family here.

qcr

[Thursday]

Hi qcarolr-

I've been trying to come up with some sort of a response to your updates on this thread.

It is clear, from what you write, you are really struggling to find a way to cope with what you are faced with, some very difficult things to be sure. I feel for you. I wish I lived close by and could come and help you sort through your DD's stuff.

The following makes me feel a lump in my throat-

She refuses to accept that someone else can be an advocate for her. Only I can 'get it'. In some ways she is right. She does not understand how to work in the 'system'. Whether it is jail, disability, social services, housing... . She truly does not know the questions to ask or how to answer what she is asked. I do get this is part of her LD sometimes. I have watched it over and over.

This belief, whether accurate or not in the current situation, makes it really hard for me to step completely out of the game.

So, I just cannot let her go entirely. I like to feel needed. I am just tired of hearing the same story about my part in the failures in her life. And I have no control over what she chooses to talk about, ask, or her feelings about any of this that she expresses to me.

I just hate to see that you feel like you are the only adequate advocate for your daughter. It IS true that nobody can do it like mom... . but if you are the only one, what happens to her if something happens to you? I have a hunch she would not curl up and die, that she would figure something out. Can you see what I am saying here?

Nobody can do it like Mom but your dynamic with your daughter is too out of balance to keep doing all that you do. She is walking all over you. She will continue to walk all over you.

Harden my heart a bit against this to endure.

Sometimes, it becomes necessary to love them enough to "take" the harder road and bear it. The harder road for you is to trust a messed up system to bring your daughter to a better place. Well, jury is out on any of that. What I'm hoping for is that you let the system have a turn so that you can step outside of the boxing ring for two seconds and find some new moves.

Is it possible that what is needed is not a harder heart but a firmer resolve for sake of your love for her and recognition that what you have been doing hasn't worked? Soft heart, hard heart, again, it is so very clear that you love her. Let that love motivate you to make the changes she needs so that she can let someone else help her OR she will begin to help herself.

As for the last paragraph I quoted above- here it is again... .

I am just tired of hearing the same story about my part in the failures in her life. And I have no control over what she chooses to talk about, ask, or her feelings about any of this that she expresses to me.

Please ask yourself if there is any aspect of the above that you do have control of. Focus on what you can do. And let the rest fall away.

Thursday

[peaceplease]

qcr,

I am so sorry that you are having such a difficult time with all of this.  One step forward, two steps back... .   It was not that long ago, that things seemed to be turning around.   However, they turned further around and not on the good side.

I wish you could be a little firmer with your dd, and not allow yourself to be caught up in matters that she creates herself. I don't mean to sound hash, as I really am hitting myself up side the head.  I was just hearing myself talk to my sister, tonight.  I said, "oh my goodness, I am enabling an overgrown brat."   

Really, qcr, we love you, and hate that you are going through all that you are going through.  Continued prayers for you.

peaceplease

[qcarolr]

Thursday and Peaceplease - your direct reply is very appreciated. I got this today from my meeting with gd's T. She has helped me more than anyone in coming to believe DD cannot be in our home. Even to get her stuff or visit.

This T said to me today that maybe I need forgiveness - to work on this with my personal T. It is really about the grain of truth in many of her projections. Then I own the whole problem in guilt and shame. If I can find true forgiveness in myself for these grains then  I can reframe them and move on. Not be so triggered.

She also suggested that it is about more than keeping gd safe. It is about health and safety for dh and I too. I was reading "Parenting Our Adult Children" Fred Schloemer. In one of his case studies he talked about what parents need to do in setting boundaries to avoid becoming another news story about murder and murder suicide from a mentally ill child. Violence and vengeance is such a strong part of the culture of my DD and so many others in this age group from 18 - 40. It was in one of the first two chapters; either ':)etaching with Love' or 'Overcoming Parent-Child Enmeshment'. I read the whole book in one night. It really pulled so much I have been exposed to in the past 5 years together. I fit into 8 of the 10 chapters. Each was a real case from his practice, edited and approved by each parent(s) involved.

So now to keep my resolve. I have an affirmation or phrase in my mind before I talk to DD. When she was evading the police for 2 weeks it was "running is not a solution". I could say this to her the 3-4 times she called. And not help her with whatever her reply was. I could not be validating either, and often ended up speaking out of anger. Well, I am angry under laid with deep sadness. This is grieving, as in a death. The same steps apply.

My statement now is "You cannot be in our home. I have given my reasons and you are unable to accept them." I am not as angry, and am only accepting one call per day. And if I need to not any calls.

I mailed her a letter today stating what I could do for her while in jail, and what I will not do. I will not pay for the cell phone she got while on the run. I will call them to say the second phone they gave her free was stolen and that she is in jail. Encouraged her to accept whatever residential options they provide - TRT program that she qualified for but changed her mind about 6 weeks ago. Her sentence is somewhat vague waiting for a psych eval for her reinstated probation.

Also have to accept, as gd's T cautioned me today, that DD may never be in a place to have a relationship with gd. She has experienced this with other clients. She works in the county mental health center in child & family area. I trust what she says. She gets my struggle with loving DD. She has been seeing me under gd's medicaid benefit weekly since August.

For now I am moving in a better direction. I need you support here to keep my focus.

qcr

[Thursday]

I need your support here to keep my focus.

We are on it.



Thursday

[vivekananda]

You must feel sad, it is so sad. Grieving for the loss of a daughter is cruel. You are always in my thoughts, sending loving kindness your way for you and your family and for your dd.

Remember to breathe, remember to walk and refresh yourself with the breeze, the trees, the sky and the earth. Open your heart to the universe and receive the strength that comes from that. Be mindful.

Vivek   

[qcarolr]

No call today from DD. Relief. Being direct with her about reasons she cannot be at our home. She states she cannot be alone. I state that, yes this is true. She states we have abused her. I state that her cycle of raging and threats of harm have traumatized us and mostly gd. All her r/s with guys have ended badly and ended in our home. Created sense of our home being unsafe in the neighborhood as well which isolated dh, I and gd.

This was yesterday. It feels good to state my truth, even if she does not hear it, accept it, or ever own it.

I have invited a friend to come on 3/11 to help me sort and pack DD's stuff, and to join me in crying and praying and grieving. There is no need to do this alone anymore. She is coming.

Moving forward.

qcr

Vivek - so good to hear from you. hope things are well down under. yes, i am breathing and reaching out for support. Peace and presence are mine when I seek them.

[suchsadness]

qcr, it's so good to hear you talk about the limits you are setting with your dd and the positive plans you have in storing her things.  I can imagine how hard that will be but am happy that you have someone to help and share in your difficult/sad times.  You have tried so hard for so long and now it is time to let go.  Your situation reminds me so much of my deceased sister's journey with her son.  She tried her best to save him from his own destiny and consequences of doing drugs, stealing, not paying fines or child support etc.  She borrowed a LOT of money from my elderly mother to pay his back child support and bailed him out of jail.  He ended up on probation and within a short time was doing more drugs and worse crimes.  This time there was nothing she could do for him and he went to prison for several years.  She died while he was in jail... . and he got his life together because of the consequences he paid.  He is out of jail now for the last few years, found a wonderful woman and is getting married this weekend.  The thing is that my sister could not fix him or his life - he needed to do that for himself.  And his life is so much better for it.  Please continue to let go and let your dd and God figure it out. Take care - and be kind to you! 

[qcarolr]

I did not answer DD's calls from jail this evening. I need a break. My body is saying to rest in several ways. I have written to her instead, both today and yesterday. With some boundaries around her cell phone, and what dh is willing to contribute. I logged into her account so could let her know the bill amount and due date.

Had an intense session with my T today. She is being quite strong in my need to severely limit contact with DD right now. It is really a safety issue with all aspects of my health. So many here are sending me this same message, and others in my support network.

I am like a large clay pot. Beautifully crafted with intricate designs carved and painted all around. This holds my spirit, the light for my soul to function in the world. There are many cracks that are healing with support from network. The seeping has nearly stopped. Yet DD keeps opening the tap in the bottom with every contact. I hammer the cork back in - she pulls it out. This blocks the Spirit that fills me up to overflowing. I desire to be overflowing. The consistently be in a place of Peace, feeling the joys that are in my life.

My homework is to go to one yoga class before my next appointment in 2 weeks. I have had the membership for a year this month. It is time to overcome whatever is keeping me away - being in my body with other people around.

I have invited two friends to come and help me pack up DD's clothes next week. To cry and pray with me as this is grieving work to clear her presence from the house. Another friend is coming another time to help with the small things, the special things. Part of the grief is that I cannot do this with DD as part of her moving into an apartment and moving on with her life.

Thank you all for being here with me.

qcr

[Rapt Reader]

qcarolr... .  

I am so sorry it has come to this for your daughter, and I am feeling it right with you... . You are doing the right things for you, your husband and granddaughter, and even for your daughter. You need this time for grieving what you cannot change, and then moving on. I'm so happy that you have friends to come and help you with the sensitive task of taking your dd's stuff out of your house. You need this purging, and the tears, and the love of your friends (in "real life" and on this site). And then you can move on into the surety that you've done the best you could, and now you will let it all go. Let it all go... .

Trust your therapists, your friends, your self... . Most times God will fill in that space that makes things get better, when we give that space to Him to do it. It's never been in your control anyway, right? Give it to Him and do what you need to for you and your family... . I will continue to pray for you; I hate that these things have been happening, but sometimes it takes that catastrophe that we've been keeping at bay, to change things for the best. When we take ourselves out of the situation, the situation will do God's will. I'm sure you know that we understand your devastation over your daughter's troubles, and are all with you in spirit 

[Dibdob59]

Amen to that

My thoughts are also with you x

[qcarolr]

Got the notarized power of attorney tonight from jail to get her stuff from police tomorrow morning. Jail has limited property storage. She got notice today from her PO that she will be released this week. They are trying to get her a bed in the dual-dx program, TRT. 3-6 weeks residential with long-term intensive outpatient. Will be part of her probation. She is glad she got accepted back in PACE. Will most likely be homeless until bed available. I have to keep my resolve to let her be homeless with only a cell phone from us.

If she is released while gd in school we will allow one visit to pack up some stuff. Hoping for Friday while dh is off work.

Struggling with detachment - missing the love part. So hard to find that place where I can allow myself to feel love for her and let her be angry at me and on her own. She wants to be independent, and she reaches out for me to provide for her.

Encourage me that I can do this.

qcr

[Rapt Reader]

Struggling with detachment - missing the love part. So hard to find that place where I can allow myself to feel love for her and let her be angry at me and on her own. She wants to be independent, and she reaches out for me to provide for her.

Encourage me that I can do this.

qcr

You can do this, qcarolr 

Maybe the bed will become available in the DDx Program sooner rather than later, and then your heart won't be stretched so painfully thin for too much longer... . You have come this far, you can handle the rest. We are all praying for you, and rooting for you 

[PrincessMa]

Struggling with detachment - missing the love part. So hard to find that place where I can allow myself to feel love for her and let her be angry at me and on her own. She wants to be independent, and she reaches out for me to provide for her.

Encourage me that I can do this.

I have ready through most of your posts.  You can absolutely do this.  You are strong and just need to keep reminding yourself that you are doing what is best for her and your gd.  The love will come back.

I need to read up on PACE.  My daughter is doing right now but It wouldn't surprise me if she ended up in the position that yours is in at some point.  She is on probation as well and is attending a dual diagnosis outpatient program.

Hugs to you,

B.

[qcarolr]

DD called from her phone. Being released to detox (again) and was waiting to be picked up. It is just across the parking lot from the jail. She wanted me to come. I was at appointment with gd - and glad I had that reason to say 'sorry I can't come'.  Thinking about this now, she most likely just wanted me to bring cigarettes - she called last night asking for cigarettes. She will call later to let me know what clothes, personal hygiene stuff she needs.

Gd was there and asked where her mom was going. Gd went with me to take some meds. to DD when she was there in Jan. So she does know where to picture her mom.

I realized today, talking with gd's pdoc, that gd has been doing better since her mom was in jail. She denied this to pdoc, but did not have an answer for why her behavior got better after the whole ER thing. I will work to stop trying to explain this to myself and enjoy. Maybe it has more to do with me - my irritability is less when DD is not homeless or rotating homeless in/out of a room we are paying for!

So continue to take it one moment at a time praying DD accepts the work ahead of her.

qcr

[peaceplease]

qcr,

You have done really well!  I am gald that you were at appointment with gd, too.  I continue to keep you in my prayers.   

peaceplease

[qcarolr]

Not going so well for DD. Called for me to refill her antibiotics so she is for sure not going to have any MRSA infections while there. She was standing outside when I pulled up. Freaking out - same staff person that was there when she melted down 6 weeks ago. DD walked across the street to smoke a cigarette. Yes, I was a bad mom and gave her one our of her purse in my trunk. I spoke to the nice staff lady and to the hard___ staff woman and walked over to DD. Rubbed her back, told her she could reach deep inside and do this. To try to think this person had to have a hard heart to get through her shift - not to take it personal - to think of something else instead of reacting. Gave her a hug as she walked through the door.

Isn't this the definition of insanity - doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result? Note: the nice staff lady asked "does she have any psych dx's?" Now don't you think they should know all that as part of an intact? DD had been there already for several hours. I said yes, and listed off the first 4 that came to mind.

Searched the entire shampoo, face product section for stuff without "alcohol" in the ingredients list. Finally found a natural product for shampoo and conditioner, lotion, acne cleanser, and deodorant. Not the cheapest, that's for sure. They did not give me that much grief about what I bought 6 weeks ago!

The new PO called me while I was waiting for the RX's and crawling around the isle searching all the labels. She actually is a counselor, has been trained with DBT, understands what 'borderline personality' means. Her statement was that DD is very unstable right now, and may not be able to stay at this detox. She has to prove herself for 4 days in detox before they will accept her in the TRT program. She said, well maybe she needs to be in a psych program.  My answer "WELL YES!"

I suggested they give her some food since she had not eaten since breakfast. All they had offered her was a cup of nuts - and she could stop breathing if she eats those. A big glass of milk and a piece of bread would work. And the get her out of the bright lights, phones, talking etc. of the office area. She needs to eat, shower and go to sleep for the night. Give her meds to her, they are there for her - the PO just told me they were there for her. Do everything possible to calm her. Ms. Hard___ in her face over behavior issues and consequences is not going to settle anyone down.

Gotta stop my ranting and put gd to bed. I said no to DD begging to come home and she asked for a hug anyway. Said no to the PO when she said DD just wanted to come home, and she listened about helping DD get some soothing done.

I am doing OK. For some obscure reason I have a sense of humor the past two days. Laughed and joked with my mom on the phone yesterday. Laughed and joked with dh tonight about his day at work. And still feel my broken heart for DD that her life is such a struggle.

qcr

[Rapt Reader]

I am doing OK. For some obscure reason I have a sense of humor the past two days. Laughed and joked with my mom on the phone yesterday. Laughed and joked with dh tonight about his day at work. And still feel my broken heart for DD that her life is such a struggle.

qcr

I think you are going to make it, qcarolr, and I've been praying that your daughter makes it, too, with the least amount of trauma possible. I've been where you are right now, and oddly enough, it really was a turning point for our family. Maybe she just needs to be at this place at this time; you have given her up to God and the Universe to work it out, and taken the burden off of your own shoulders. Breathe. I'll continue to pray for you and your family 

[llbee814]

The sense of humor showing up is a blessing, qcarolr... . mine gets quite whacked out, sometimes quite dark.  I think it provides a balance for the cold,  dead-seriousness of the situations that we are smacked with.  I am so glad you got to hug dd.  The love is not missing, it is there.  :)espite everything, it is always there for us moms.  Hard trick to keep it in check so as not to be used and/or abused by our dds... . because they know it is there, always.  Even when they won't/can't admit it, they know.  The evidence is in how they try to have their way with us by using it to get what they need in their maladaptive ways.  Another catch-22.  Radical acceptance... . doesn't make them bad girls, just savvy, .  Am I making sense with how I see this?  How I wish we could all get together for coffee, tea,  or a glass of wine!  Hang tough,  you are doing great... . and scroo the hardaysss, she needs to grow a heart.   . Lorilbee

[Thursday]

q-

Your descriptions sound like a waking nightmare but I can feel your humor in what you have written... . thought that to myself before I read about your humor returning. Awesome to have it returning.

Don't want to project or imagine anything that isn't there but seems to me, if the PO is stating maybe she needs to be in a psych program... . could she be finally herself realizing this and maybe she has some moves left up her sleeve? With the way things are going for the mentally ill in this country I am frankly unclear if there IS something more than what your DD has been offered. What do jails do with people who are so unstable that they are unable to cooperate? I mean other than giving them a cup of nuts?

Hang in girlie. Hang in.

t

[PrincessMa]

The fact that you can enjoy the momentary thought of humor amidst all this is healthy.  I think that adding light to a very dark situation is the best way to cope.  And it is proof that you ARE coping.

Kudos.

B.

[qcarolr]

Update: DD is back in jail. Detox staff did not know how to cope with DD's dysregulation. I waited with her for 2 hours for probation to show up with the sheriff deputies that took her back to jail. They will pursue another direction next week.

We were waiting in the conference room off the public lobby. DD could walk away, and had called me to take her to an different program managed by the Homeless Shelter (one she has previously refused to try - says she got better info when a rep. came to jail and discussed last week). Upon arrival it was clear they could not stop her, but probation was in control. They would not return DD's belongings to her until probation cleared her release. I did not want to support DD in running any more. It is snowing and cold out - it is nearly unendurable for me to endure her living outside anymore -- and clear she cannot be in our home.

DD felt the staff did not listen to her and treated her with disrespect. The program director came in and gave is addiction pep-talk and how wonderful their program was and that she needed to adjust her attitude... . He would not listen to anything DD had to say - and she was being very disrespectful in her delivery!

DD was hungry. I sat a listened and was able to be validating of her feelings with the staff. I had actually experienced this with one person yesterday. DD was her loud, bad language self. A staff person came in to see if I 'needed any help'. "No, I am fine. Did DD get any lunch? She is hungry." Well no, she was outside waiting for you at lunch. I will get her some food. As she walked out she mumbled under her breath - little girl having a temper tantrum. So she brought DD a bowl of chicken noodle soup, pb&j and the always present cup of almonds. DD handed these to her and said - "see, no one reads my notes that I am allergic to nuts". and I confirmed that her throat swells if she eats nuts. The staff person reached over and took the PB&J to which DD said - now you are taking my sandwich! Staff: it has peanuts. DD: those are legumes, not tree nuts. I can eat that. DD: everyone treats me with disrespect. Me: and yes, DD can be intimidating when she feels disrespected - this is her real feeling. And your comment about a temper tantrum feels a little disrespectful to me.

She walked out, then came right back in. And sat and listened and validated both DD and I for about 30 minutes. She admitted that DD is intimidating when angry. And yes, she was following the other staff and the chart notes. She said they were acting under the assumption that Dd was acting like a spoiled little girl used to manipulating her mommy. (her real words!) And then she apologized and asked to hear what was really going on with DD. It was such an awesome experience to have someone listen to both of us, and admit what she could understand and what she could not. She said is an addiction counselor, not a mental health trained counselor. She asked about DD's history of therapy and listened to how hard it was for DD to trust enough to participate.

I am hoping some learning took place here that may provide some changes in how the staff at this facility treat mental illness in their addiction clients. I have hope for this. After DD left the director came back in. He shared that he has a son with autism and cerebral palsy. He gets how protective I am in advocating for DD. He sees the struggle wanting her to be safe. His son is in a wheel chair - he will never have to worry about him walking out and being homeless. They will be providing for him for his lifetime. Dd is expected to grow up and be independent.

He also shared that our local mental health center is setting up a peer mentoring program, and maybe this is something DD could benefit from. Someone who is further along in mental health recovery that can help her navigate, give her support,... . The counselor had also brought that up, but referred me to a program in another county.

The sad part for me -- it feels like DD has to be hurt for others to learn. I sure hope they put some of this understanding in her record for the court and probation dept. to see. Maybe they can learn too. And then DD can benefit.

So I have moved again from the black knight to blame into the white knight that helps. Not an enabling, rescuing one this time. She is held accountable for her behaviors - she is back in jail. She has been validated for her feelings that drove the behaviors.

I was able to sit quietly and listen -- to wait it out instead of avoiding my own pain by leaving DD alone.

qcr

[hopeangel]

qcarolr - I cannot find words to say anything other than you are an inspiration and a heroine, when you look in the mirror I truely hope that that is what you see!  God bless you and relieve you of the crosses you are currently bearing.

I wish you EVERYTHING for that is what you truely deserve! Please be kind to yourself and take care! I don't know you but I feel very proud just to read of your actions in an almost impossible situation, I am praying your world will become peaceful! 

[crumblingdad]

You're continuing to do such an amazing job QCR.  Your ability to try to balance detaching, advocating and your love for your daughter is indeed inspiring.  Glad to see your DD is at least safe and perhaps a turning point is happening with her getting better help. You can definitely do this - just remember to take time and detach when needed.  I think you know when you are and when you aren't it's just a matter of pushing through during the tougher times.  Remember that if you can last one more hour, those become more hours and those become days.  Sometimes myself I'm learning to take things one hour at a time because one day at a time is too much.  You and your daughter are a gift to all of us as we learn so much in our own journeys because of your dedication and her struggles.

Keep us posted and thinking of both of you regularly and have you in my prayers! 

[qcarolr]

Remember that if you can last one more hour, those become more hours and those become days.  Sometimes myself I'm learning to take things one hour at a time because one day at a time is too much. 

Sometimes it is 1 minute at a time with remembering to breath and be quietly present. I have been practicing this each morning in my quiet prayer and meditation time. I find myself often during the day with my eyes closed for a moment drawing presence with God. My renewed faith sustains me as never before. For me anyway, this goes beyond mindfulness in myself.

My family sometimes asks - what are you doing? Praying for peace is my answer.

qcr