under the surface

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

Hi,

I am still trying to process this relationship, and things I missed or didn't understand.  One thing I wanted feedback on was if others ever felt that their ex was not quite there?  An example of what I mean is frequently when I saw her she just had a distant look in her eyes when I first got to her house.  The longer I was there the more the distant look would fade.  And even more specific, if there was a time when we didn't see each other for a couple of days she would become even more distant.  Did you guys encounter this as well and what does it mean?

[Tincup]

Hi,

I am still trying to process this relationship, and things I missed or didn't understand.  One thing I wanted feedback on was if others ever felt that their ex was not quite there?  An example of what I mean is frequently when I saw her she just had a distant look in her eyes when I first got to her house.  The longer I was there the more the distant look would fade.  And even more specific, if there was a time when we didn't see each other for a couple of days she would become even more distant.  Did you guys encounter this as well and what does it mean?

[seeking balance]

Hi,

I am still trying to process this relationship, and things I missed or didn't understand.  One thing I wanted feedback on was if others ever felt that their ex was not quite there?  An example of what I mean is frequently when I saw her she just had a distant look in her eyes when I first got to her house.  The longer I was there the more the distant look would fade.  And even more specific, if there was a time when we didn't see each other for a couple of days she would become even more distant.  Did you guys encounter this as well and what does it mean?

Hey Tincup,

Help me out here, this thread has the potential for some serious BPD bashing - I honestly do not think that is your point.  Since you are at 300+ posts and have some real insight into BPD now - what if we were to look at the "WHY" for you this question.

BPD is an attachment disorder - distance is completely going to push that abandonment/engulfment button... . Probably every member here has experienced this and it is a basic of the disorder itself.

What emotions did you feel when she was distant?  Did that actually keep you attached?

Peace,

SB

[Tincup]

SB-Yes I want no bashing to go on here.  And thank you for asking about my emotions because that is the main reason I asked the question.  I felt terrible when she was distant.  I think I would make every attempt possible to see her even if for a short period of time vs not seeing her in order to keep the distant look to a minimum.  I felt like to her it was the quantity of time vs. the quality of time.  Since I had kids and my ex didn't like being around the kids much (she has issues with my ex wife) we naturally had periods of time of a couple of days when we would not see each other every week. 

So to answer your question, I felt terrible when she was distant.  I fought hard to keep her from having that distant look.  The result was very tiring, and I would hyper focus of my perception of gauging her distance.

[seeking balance]

So to answer your question, I felt terrible when she was distant.  I fought hard to keep her from having that distant look.  The result was very tiring, and I would hyper focus of my perception of gauging her distance.

Thanks for redirecting a bit Tincup - I know from your posting, you are really looking within, so I didn't want to see this go haywire

Yeah, I totally remember that the things I would do to "make it better" tended to backfire and I would end up feeling worse.

That distant feeling (I know this now, not then) actually pushed my own abandonment fears.  I don't know if it was all my core stuff or projection or a combination of both - maybe Chicken & the Egg theory.

At some point, I just came to a place where I had to accept BPD as it is and accept me as I am and let go of trying to figure it all out and simply cry.

It is sad when we want something and it just doesn't turn out the way we think it should.

[LettingGo14]

At some point, I just came to a place where I had to accept BPD as it is and accept me as I am and let go of trying to figure it all out and simply cry.

It is sad when we want something and it just doesn't turn out the way we think it should.

This hits me hard.  On one hand, I am grateful to come to the point of acceptance. On the other hand, it's difficult to grasp that I spent much of the past 4 years investing in something that proved so... . [insert negative result].

The silver lining, of course, is that I'm here.  I'm not in that dark, almost unbearable place, of wanting to: (1) understand her, (2) get her back, or (3) blow everything up.

My xBPDgf used to withdraw into sputtering and speechlessness and rage when triggered.   I used to get angry, frustrated, and withdrawn when triggered by her. I'm glad it's over.

[Madison66]

My posts are from personal experience and not intended to be a broad bashing of any PD.

This was a big theme of dysfunction in my 3 year r/s with uBPD/NPD ex gf.  We didn't live together and shared the same every other weekend free parenting schedules, although she had her three young kids more than I have my d during the week on top of over scheduling other activities.  I'd get calls late at night from her saying that she did not feel connected to me.  I'd ask her what she needed and she would only say that she was just expressing her feelings.  I would respond by saying: "I miss you too.  Let's look at our schedules to carve out time together even when we have the kids."  She'd then tell me "well, sometimes you can't always have what you want".  This would trigger a fear that I wasn't doing enough, things were out of control, and/or there was some threat to the security of the r/s.  Early on, I'd openly tell her my fears.  It felt like a no win situation.  I didn't need to fix anything beyond validating and suggesting we get together as emotionally mature adults to find solutions to struggles.  This just wasn't possible and it felt like she was acting out to get my attention and then pushing me away when she may have felt vulnerable.  Bottom-line, I feel it was part of the emotional abuse cycle in which I actively participated.  I will never know if she intended the communication to be abusive or if it was done subconsciously.  It is just the way she is wired and it didn't work for me.  It just took me way to long to figure that out and leave the r/s.  Sad but true... .

[LettingGo14]

It felt like a no win situation. 

Madison, we share some significant similarities in r/s evolution.   The "no win situation" is so true.   I'd get a text like, "this is not my ideal relationship," when I'd be watching my children, and I'd feel like, "huh?"

I very much appreciate your insights.

[Waifed]

Madison brings up a good point.  I still to this day can not figure out if the dissociation/distance was an emotional abusive thing or if it was just dissociation.  Maybe a little of both.  I do recall many times when she would not be engaged in whatever it was we were doing.  I remember many occasions trying to speak to her and she would not respond, just an empty stare.  We all do that occasionally but hers was severe at times.  The same think for many of the odd occasions where she just seemed detached and aloof.  I also remember her not calling or texting when she would be off with friends or at her parents.  It hurt and made me wonder if she even cared about me or was using me at her convenience.  I knew nothing about BPD back then.  I would often lash out at her when she did this.  Obviously the wrong thing to do with a pwBPD traits but I just didn't know any better.  It is still all very confusing, difficult to process and hard to close the book on it.  

[Tincup]

We didn't live together and shared the same every other weekend free parenting schedules, although she had her three young kids more than I have my d during the week on top of over scheduling other activities.  I'd get calls late at night from her saying that she did not feel connected to me.  I'd ask her what she needed and she would only say that she was just expressing her feelings

Madison-I would get responses like this as well.  They really tore me up, made me actually feel guilty for spending time with my kids (as crazy as that sounds it is true).  I think it really pushed my abandonment fears.  I really think she was trying to express what she was feeling, and I always appreciated when she would open up a little and let me know what she was feeling. 

BPD being an attachment disorder actually played right into my own fear of abandonment.

[Madison66]

Yeah, I had no clue about BPD or NPD or any other PD's, and just didn't know how to respond in a healthy way.  Couples T was even screwed up.  I was torn between validating her feelings and not knowing how to respond to what I just felt deep down in my gut to be unhealthy feelings and thoughts.  Once the emotional abuse was pretty constant, I would attempt to set boundaries and then she'd accuse me of being closed and that she couldn't crack my shell.  No win situation and I just wasn't prepared to deal with the craziness and it didn't work for me.  A healthy r/s would never be that difficult of confusing.  I think after her breaking n/c this week using a ridiculous excuse, I've finally radically accepted that much of the r/s will never make sense to me.  I can only walk away with my strength and my sanity to deal with some of my own issues.  While it was only like 90 days ago, it feels like a differently lifetime.  Very surreal... .

[Tincup]

Madison-It is interesting that you used the term "radically accepted", because that is the place that I have gotten to this week as well (from reading another posting).  I am still processing this whole thing, but have accepted it for what it was.

[LettingGo14]

Madison-It is interesting that you used the term "radically accepted", because that is the place that I have gotten to this week as well (from reading another posting).  I am still processing this whole thing, but have accepted it for what it was.

Tincup.  Sounds like you, Madison, and I are all divorced dads who are arriving at the same conclusions.   I felt such relief when I found this site.   I was so caught up in the Crazy of the r/s.   I am relieved to be done. And while I have aftershocks of emotion, and regrets, I let go of the idea I could make that relationship work. 

[seeking balance]

Good thoughts on this Tincup... .

I found it helpful when I could identify where I was on my journey of recovery and detachment.

So, looking to the right - 5 Stages of Detachment:

Where do you think this post would fit and why?

[Tincup]

SB-Great question, I am probably in stage 4 or 5 but I jump back to 3 when I need to (like now).  I am further along than I thought I was.  I still get bit in the rear end from time to time.  The important thing for me to remember is that the previous times when I allowed myself to be recycled I really don't think I made it out of stage 1.  Even though I might of talked the talk, I didn't walk the walk.  Action hurts, but acceptance really does feel good.  I just need to continue to allow myself, with patience, to process.

[myself]

There were times when I was becoming not quite there. I'd withdraw. When she would push me away more than pull me in closer, I didn't get to be myself. Too many times of that and I had to make my choice. Stay with her or stay gone. Both were going to hurt. Which would drag me down, and which had the chance to do the opposite of that?

I still get bit in the rear end from time to time.  The important thing for me to remember is that the previous times when I allowed myself to be recycled I really don't think I made it out of stage 1.  Even though I might of talked the talk, I didn't walk the walk.  Action hurts, but acceptance really does feel good.  I just need to continue to allow myself, with patience, to process.

 That's where I was, too. It was like our r/s had a revolving door. We hadn't let go.

I had to really be sure that I was serious when I broke things off with her, because I didn't want to look back and think it had been a mistake. I also didn't want to hurt her, even when dealing with the pain she had caused me. Accepting that my life took a turn it needed to take has been a relief. It's a process. We're heading in the right direction. Farther and farther along. It's different now. Real detachment. No recycling.