Recording and Videotaping

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I have seen a lot of you here are big advocates of the recording.

Our state laws (CA) do not permit this as far as I understand. Can you tell me what your legal experiences have been with it?

Our BPD was videotaping our exchanges and the mediator and co-parent counselor asked her to stop. Then our attorney requested copies of the tapes. (She did not comply... . of course)

They have made it seem as though this was a bad thing.

[bravhart1]

I have seen a lot of you here are big advocates of the recording.

Our state laws (CA) do not permit this as far as I understand. Can you tell me what your legal experiences have been with it?

Our BPD was videotaping our exchanges and the mediator and co-parent counselor asked her to stop. Then our attorney requested copies of the tapes. (She did not comply... . of course)

They have made it seem as though this was a bad thing.

[ogopogodude]

WOW, ... why does everybody THINK that video recording and audio recording is illegal…?

IT IS NOT ILLEGAL, ... JEEEEEEEEEZZZZ

You can do what ever you WANT to do, ...  As long as it doesn't hurt anybody.

IF you see a UFO in your back yard, ... are you going to NOT video record it... ?

Of course you wil, ... it is something that is totally bizarre and not seen very often.

You record a UFO because you do not want to be in a situation of trying to make others believe you, ... and what you have experienced.

This is EXACTLY the same thing with a BPD-temper-rage episode.

It is something that is not seen very often, ... so, … HMmmmmm  record it... .

[ogopogodude]

The ONLY time that video recording is illegal is when one has some sort of stupid fetish like using a go-pro and video taping a woman urinating in an outhouse or something dumb like that….

[ogopogodude]

I  have DOZENS of archived video and audio content on my crazy (ex)wife  in many-a-temper-rage-episodes and I have yet to have the "Video-Police" come and arrest me for doing so….

I am living proof that video and audio taping is NOT illegal.

I can even put in on youtube if I wish, ,... but I choose NOT to…

Having this evidence is actually wonderful, …

(ME GOT THE ATOM BOMB, …. SHE GOT STICKS AND STONES, ….

ME CAN GO TO ":)EF-CON 1", … and ACTIVATE THE NUCLEAR LAUNCH SEQUENCE AT ANY TIME, … but I choose NOT to, …)

POWER is everything.

How would YOU like it if some one had damaging video content on YOU?

(wouldn't YOU start to behave yourself and start acting 'normal'... ?)

So, ... let's turn the tables here, …Say, that I myself am a troubled BPD person and that I do have the capacity to change if I want to, ... but I choose NOT to change (meaning to go to therapy, probe into my PTSD of my childhood memories, delve deeper into my psyche with an appropriate therapist to get rid of my temper and chaotic lifestyle that I IMPOSE upon others at MY will, ... but I choose not to go to the therapist.  And my significant other has video etc of me ranting and raging like a lunatic, … Hmmmm maybe, ... just maybe, ... I may would have the inclination to change as I would not want this evidence to get out into the open….

Blackmail? Extortion? , … well, ... possibly, ... but I haven't used my evidence (yet) so it ain't blackmail, ... but it sure is nice to have refined Plutonium & Uranium 238 in one's safety deposit box.

One thing is this, ... my ex(wife) has certainly behaved herself in terms of rages and tantrums, ... and there is no more violence directed at our children. So, ... if there is anyone out there that is going to judge me on my video taping antics, ... I would have to say that I got "results", ... and good, positive results at that, ... they are not scared of their mother anymore, … as a matter of fact my teens will video tape using their cell phones (at their will) of their mom if she even thinks of raging at them (and she only sees them maybe once or twice a month for an hour or so).

If a child's safety is in jeopardy, … trust me, ... you CAN use the video content to prove that the BPD-afflicted person is a detriment to the safety and upbringing to that child. Also, ... CPS loves video content if you have it. It takes the he said/she said factor out of the equation altogether.  Then a damaging CPS report can be used against that person/parent in court. Judges like this… it gives a 3rd party perspective on things.

A judge will not never tolerate a raging temper ridden individual in his/her court room , ... nor would a judge tolerate such behaviour directed against a child (or another individual that does not want this violent behaviour) in the privacy of a home.

[broken3]

Bravhart,

What dude is trying to say. Is that anyone at any time can record things.

What you do with it is a different story.

I keep all recordings. I document same. If the law, or judge requests to be presented with the same. I allow them to hear.

When the inevitable he said versus she said happens. You can say you have proof.

If they request. That is on them.

[ogopogodude]

^^ what he said (short version).

I always use the long version (sorry, ... but I am soo very passionate about the topic of being abused and being in a position to be able to "prove it".

[livednlearned]

In some states, it is illegal to record someone without getting their permission. California is one of those states. Ogo, you are in Canada. Laws are different.

Bravhart1, it is a little bit complex on these boards with regard to recording because there are state laws, and then there are family court laws. Sometimes they conflict with each other. Even in states where there are two-party laws, like in California, a judge may (emphasis on may) allow the recording to be entered if there is a way to verify that it has not been edited or tampered with. Some states require forensic IT experts to vouch for the recording's authenticity. In some states, if the recording demonstrates that the child's well being is endangered, they might allow the recording as an exhibit.

It's very context dependent.

What a lot of members here do is record, regardless of the laws. And regardless of whether that evidence will ever be permitted in court. You have to listen to your lawyer to find out how it works not only in your state, but with your judge. In my case, I recorded some of my ex husband's drunken rages. My lawyer did not want to use it in court because some judges can come down hard on doing that -- she had a client who was admonished so severely for covertly recording that she thought they were going to lose the case. She preferred to use other strategies, including documenting, depositions, and parenting coordinator.

Some people here also use recordings to protect themselves. Even in two-party states like California, some people feel it is far better to break a law about recording and protect yourself than have nothing but your word against his or hers. The judge may not allow the recording in court, but law enforcement might, and CPS might take it into account.

I have held up my phone to show I'm recording when N/BPDx approached my car a few times. He never comes near me anymore.

I'm not sure I know what you mean when you say that "they have made it seem like this is a bad thing." Meaning, the counselor and mediator are worried what will happen?

It's not likely that those tapes will make it into a California court. And an aggressive lawyer may go after her for recording private conversations. It really depends on how aggressively your lawyer pursues it. I'm guessing there wasn't much on the tapes that was useful against the mediator and counselor, but your pwBPD might think there is something there worth exposing?

[bravhart1]

Her taping exchanges was to "prove" that SD5 didn't want to come with us. She hyped the kid up into a frenzy about missing her while she's gone etc. and then tape her crying four year old, thinking it would make the judge consider leaving kid with her.

All it proved was she was convincing the kid that dad was bad for her own purposes. And made her look like a bad mom.

But we have heard that she questions the SD5 when she returns from being with us and tapes the interrogations.

I just had a lot of questions about what's appropriate and what's not. She tapes me walking to my car. etc. not sure what good that does her. She's weird.

I would love to get her on tape throwing one of her "fits", but she's on NC now.

[livednlearned]

Her taping exchanges was to "prove" that SD5 didn't want to come with us. She hyped the kid up into a frenzy about missing her while she's gone etc. and then tape her crying four year old, thinking it would make the judge consider leaving kid with her.

All it proved was she was convincing the kid that dad was bad for her own purposes. And made her look like a bad mom.

But we have heard that she questions the SD5 when she returns from being with us and tapes the interrogations.

I just had a lot of questions about what's appropriate and what's not. She tapes me walking to my car. etc. not sure what good that does her. She's weird.

I would love to get her on tape throwing one of her "fits", but she's on NC now.

Taping you in California without getting your consent, taping her child, and recording sessions that are considered confidential -- that might all blow up in her face.

I would ask your lawyer about what, if anything, you can do about this. She is using it to harass, which is why in some states it is not legal to record without consent. But privacy laws, especially with technology involved, are really complex and highly context dependent. If I were in your position, I would talk to your lawyer. It might be worth having her take it all the way to a judge, and then have her admonished. Interrogating or coaching kids is going to show the judge that she's engaged in parental alienation.

My ex did something similar. He read  out loud emails (that he wrote to me) in family court, thinking they would demonstrate what a good person he was. But he came across as a raging bully with serious issues. BPD sufferers have a hard time seeing that their actions and thinking are disordered. Sometimes it works in your favor when it comes to court. 

[ForeverDad]

LivednLearned stated a very balanced view of recording.

• We don't do antagonizing In-Your-Face (poke the bear) recording, it is asking for trouble, overreaction or worse.



• In my years here I've only heard of a small handful of cases where a member was told not to record, I don't think any member was ever jailed for it.  Since there is minimal risk for recording and much greater risk of being framed because not recording, it's better to



• It is generally for self-protection, not for 'blaming'.  Courts are reluctant to cause more conflict, they want it to subside and so often ignore reports or complaints as hearsay or He-Said, She-Said.  Also, judges are worried someone could set up and frame the other parent into getting recorded out of context.



• I used it when we separated as proof of her death threats.  Police paid attention, judge was ho-hum and stated that case law downplayed it as "not imminent" since she apparently didn't have a weapon in her hands.  Judge compared "I'm going to kill you" to a case law example of a dismissed case where a guy had come home drunk and told his wife IF he had a gun he'd shoot her.  However, on a positive note, I did have a TPO for a few months and she never returned, after it was dismissed she never tried to return and kick me out.



• In 8 years only recently did we use recordings in family court, though I was prepared with many examples.  So many cases end with settlements and in settlements that the 'evidence isn't even used.



• In my case, ex's lawyer objected to the recordings.  The lawyers listened to them in a conference room (ex's lawyer claimed he never received them), then came in and played it for ex ("I don't remember but it's my voice" and a third time for me to confirm their authenticity (I had recorded date and time, even day of week, but failed to state the year so I had to confirm full date and also that I hadn't changed them).



• Just about all the professionals said I wasn't to record my son's calls so if he was on some of them it was somewhat incidental, it was my conversations by telephone with ex over exchanges, etc.



• BTW, ex will no longer speak to me personally or by telephone.  She was already ignoring my emails, so now it's mostly texts or nothing.