First detailed session at the MC

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

We went to marriage counseling for the first session after the individual sessions.  The counselor explained how the sessions would run.  He used a recent incident with how we discussed a home improvement project.  Things we discussed at the MC:

• I did not grow up seeing noticeable intimacy (i.e., kissing, holding hands) between my parents for the most part nor conflict resolution.  My parents (not step) would get quiet whenever I entered a room.  I said that I learned what I knew from classic movies.  NOTE:  I can be quite intimate but was pushed away too many times to count by her to be intimate with her anymore.



• Her mother worked hard to make ends meet for them after her parents divorced.  We did not really explore that.



• She has big issues with her father which causes her to distrust men and me in particular.  The way he described it seems like she did not show all her feelings about her dad, or he was trying not to give too much away from the individual sessions.  I think her dad is on the same list as my mom.  NOTE:  I have suspected her dad was a big issue causing her to treat me this way for awhile, but I could not ask her nor fully understand the dynamic to say anything.



• We discussed her more this session.  He indicated not to think I was necessarily what she was describing.  I understood that he meant it was her perception, which could be right or wrong.



• Regarding the incident, he asked a lot about how we felt at each step of the incident in a step-by-step analysis.

What I found interesting about the incident was what went through our heads.  When the incident was over, I already was going over it in my head.  I like to analyze events with a (somewhat) cooler head to see where I am right and/or wrong as well as her.  She said that she had some feelings from it (i.e, anger and frustration on the surface and sadness underneath), but she did not think over the event like I did.  He then asked if she realized that is what I do after a fight.  She said no.  She may not be truly aware that is what I do, but I have told her many times that I think a lot over things in my head.  Sadly, she has never quite understood what that means.  I really pull apart things in my head.

Does knowing the root of an issue make it possible to fix things for a pwBPD?  It does not sound like the probability is high from what I have read on this site.  When I say fix, I mean get to a point where I do not have to think so hard with how I say things.  I am drained from watching every word.

Also, maybe I am not thinking clearly, but does that sound like someone with BPD?  I hate those doubts about whether she has it or not.

[Zon]

We went to marriage counseling for the first session after the individual sessions.  The counselor explained how the sessions would run.  He used a recent incident with how we discussed a home improvement project.  Things we discussed at the MC:

• I did not grow up seeing noticeable intimacy (i.e., kissing, holding hands) between my parents for the most part nor conflict resolution.  My parents (not step) would get quiet whenever I entered a room.  I said that I learned what I knew from classic movies.  NOTE:  I can be quite intimate but was pushed away too many times to count by her to be intimate with her anymore.



• Her mother worked hard to make ends meet for them after her parents divorced.  We did not really explore that.



• She has big issues with her father which causes her to distrust men and me in particular.  The way he described it seems like she did not show all her feelings about her dad, or he was trying not to give too much away from the individual sessions.  I think her dad is on the same list as my mom.  NOTE:  I have suspected her dad was a big issue causing her to treat me this way for awhile, but I could not ask her nor fully understand the dynamic to say anything.



• We discussed her more this session.  He indicated not to think I was necessarily what she was describing.  I understood that he meant it was her perception, which could be right or wrong.



• Regarding the incident, he asked a lot about how we felt at each step of the incident in a step-by-step analysis.

What I found interesting about the incident was what went through our heads.  When the incident was over, I already was going over it in my head.  I like to analyze events with a (somewhat) cooler head to see where I am right and/or wrong as well as her.  She said that she had some feelings from it (i.e, anger and frustration on the surface and sadness underneath), but she did not think over the event like I did.  He then asked if she realized that is what I do after a fight.  She said no.  She may not be truly aware that is what I do, but I have told her many times that I think a lot over things in my head.  Sadly, she has never quite understood what that means.  I really pull apart things in my head.

Does knowing the root of an issue make it possible to fix things for a pwBPD?  It does not sound like the probability is high from what I have read on this site.  When I say fix, I mean get to a point where I do not have to think so hard with how I say things.  I am drained from watching every word.

Also, maybe I am not thinking clearly, but does that sound like someone with BPD?  I hate those doubts about whether she has it or not.

[maxsterling]

Does knowing the root of an issue make it possible to fix things for a pwBPD?

In my experience, no.  My GF is well aware her behavior causes issues.  She's been diagnosed with BPD years ago.  Yet, at times she doesn't believe the diagnosis, goes back to the hospital or a doctor, who diagnoses her with something different, and she flies with that for awhile.  The latest is Bipolar, previous to that it was PTSD.  The end results are the same - her behavior hasn't changed much.  She's still self destructive.  She's still manipulative.  She's quit the cutting and the drugs, but the temptations are still there.  She still runs away.  Still looks for escapes (through new jobs, boyfriends, shopping, eating).  She's been in 10 mental hospitals.  She's been on every medication.  She knows her issues stem from insecurity and abandonment fears relating to an abusive childhood and having no support growing up from her family.  She knows mental illness runs in her family.  It doesn't matter - her behavior is still the same even though she is aware of where it comes from.  I'm starting to realize she has little control - it is only in reflection that she knows she slipped up.  

It does not sound like the probability is high from what I have read on this site.  

Probably not.  It's going to be a lifetime struggle with her.  One criteria of BPD is a failure to control their emotions.  They feel something, and that is so intense it takes over.  They can't stop themselves and stay in the present.  No matter how much logic or explanation is thrown at them, it doesn't matter.  If they are angry, scared, sad, happy (haven't seen much happiness out of my pwBPD yet) - those emotions completely take over.  My GF does things she knows have hurt her in the past.  yet she does them again.  Overeating is an example.  She knows overeating leads to weight gain.  She knows being overweight makes her depressed.  Yet when she is depressed about being overweight - she eats and can't stop.  Makes no sense. [/quote]

When I say fix, I mean get to a point where I do not have to think so hard with how I say things.  I am drained from watching every word.

If this happens, it will be because of changes in you, and not changes in her.  Eventually, you may naturally learn SET techniques so much you don't have to think about them.  Or, you may just get to the point where you accept her behavior and quit worrying about it.  In other words, you accept she will rage and get upset at times, and you just have confidence that it's not about you, and you stay out of her way and go about your life, and let her emotions be hers.  I'm not even close to that point yet, but I have thought about it at length, and I see that as the only way this could work for the long term - because her changing very much is an unrealistic expectation.

[IsItHerOrIsItMe]

Does knowing the root of an issue make it possible to fix things for a pwBPD? 

Like a lot of issues around BPD, it's really up to your wife.  Can it help her, sure, if she really wants to help herself. 

It all depends on her level of self-awareness and how much she wants to help make things better. 

maxsterling's experience is common, my own uBPDw was told many times in T (before I knew what BPD was) that she treats me like her father (stereo-typical construction worker... . whistled at women even with his wife is sitting next to him).  Knowing just gave her more ammo.  Other things have worked better, but it's not like on TV where they have an "ah-ha" moment and everything is fixed... .

[Zon]

When I say fix, I mean get to a point where I do not have to think so hard with how I say things.  I am drained from watching every word.

If this happens, it will be because of changes in you, and not changes in her.  Eventually, you may naturally learn SET techniques so much you don't have to think about them.  Or, you may just get to the point where you accept her behavior and quit worrying about it.  In other words, you accept she will rage and get upset at times, and you just have confidence that it's not about you, and you stay out of her way and go about your life, and let her emotions be hers.  I'm not even close to that point yet, but I have thought about it at length, and I see that as the only way this could work for the long term - because her changing very much is an unrealistic expectation.

I burned out last fall on her temper after a few years of nearly daily (multiple times) anger (cold stare whenever I spoke) which, ironically, has helped some with the ability to not worry about her rages.  It is not a good solution, but it happened.  That plus being more assertive on my part has not made her feel better as far as I can tell.  Thank you.  I seriously doubt she can change but will try counseling a bit longer.

[Zon]

Does knowing the root of an issue make it possible to fix things for a pwBPD? 

Like a lot of issues around BPD, it's really up to your wife.  Can it help her, sure, if she really wants to help herself. 

It all depends on her level of self-awareness and how much she wants to help make things better. 

maxsterling's experience is common, my own uBPDw was told many times in T (before I knew what BPD was) that she treats me like her father (stereo-typical construction worker... . whistled at women even with his wife is sitting next to him).  Knowing just gave her more ammo.  Other things have worked better, but it's not like on TV where they have an "ah-ha" moment and everything is fixed... .

I knew, in my gut, that she would/will not have an "ah-ha" moment but needed to ask anyway.  I have no idea if she truly wants to help herself.  She has said that I am the one that changed almost hinting that I am the one needing fixing.  I have not heard within MC her take on seeing her issue with her dad, so I do not know if she will accept it or not.  She may acknowledge that her dad is someone she despises (already acknowledged that) yet not accept it as what is causing her to do so much to me.  She may never see what she has done to me nor the our children.  I do not need an apology; I want the pain to stop.