Placing herself in my shoes - she can't

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

An interesting exchange during couples T yesterday -

We were discussing her upcoming job interview, and the T asked me if her getting a job would alleviate some of my financial worries.  I mentioned that wasn't my main worry - her disability money has helped already with financial concerns.  I explained my main worry is her happiness, or lack thereof, and that I just want to see her have something for herself, so that I feel less like a caretaker.  I explained that in my mind material things and money take a back seat to happiness.  That means for her to get a job, the income means nothing to me, what matters is seeing her take care of herself and having something that makes her happy and optimistic for the future. 

But somewhere during this conversation, my GF interrupted, and said, "does money or me getting a job have something to do with marriage?"  Pretty clear here that she just does not get it.  Somewhere in her mind she is racing over that we have been together for a year and she can't figure out why we aren't married yet.  I've told her before the basic things- I want to feel secure and stable.  But this isn't a concrete answer for her, and it drives her nuts.  So she assumes it is some other reason - money or some defined moral value of mine that I am keeping secret from her.  It's like she wants me to tell her what to do so that we can get married - and I worry that the reason she is trying to get a job now is only so that I will propose, and that she isn't doing it for her own betterment. 

And in another part of the session, my GF started talking about her self image and people in her past not being supportive. I asked my GF directly if I am supportive, and she replied "yes" but that she wished I would stop her from talking negatively about herself.  The T then asked her what I could do or say to accomplish that, to which my GF gave an example.  T then asked me what I do and if I ever tell her she is attractive or beautiful, and I replied that I do that often, but she refuses my compliments.  I explained that often I will tell her she is beautiful, and she will reply "no I am not, I am fat and ugly."  Or that if she says she hates herself, I will reply, "I don't hate you, I love you." And I described how her reusing my compliments makes me feel - INVALIDATED.  I explained that I see her as beautiful, and when she refuses the compliment it makes me feel there must be something wrong with my perception, and it hurts.  Her constant and vocal negative opinion of herself causes me to feel like there must be something wrong with me for loving her.

To that my GF said she never thought of it that way, and was glad I explained how I feel.   My thought to myself was, "how can she not know how it makes others feel?".  So I asked, "put yourself in my shoes, how would you feel if I was always talking negatively about myself?  I don't like my legs, but you love them.  How would you feel if I was always telling you how I hate my legs?"  She said she would be angry with me.  And with the T's coaching, I think it clicked with her, and suggested that when she hears a compliment from me, she should say "thank you" and let it be.

Afterwards, we went shopping and to dinner.  But on the drive home, she asked if she "always" has to stop the self-hate comments around me and asked how she can describe the way she feels if that is the way she is feeling.  I replied that sometimes it's okay to let that stuff out, but she should be mindful of the way it makes me feel.  So, she then started about how she was trying on clothes at the store and all she could do was look into the mirror and hate the way she looks.   We then went home and she started trying on clothes for her job interview, and basically had mostly negative things to say, but she refrained from the "I hate myself I am so fat and ugly" comments.  So, at least for now I think she will stop the really harsh words, even though her negative talk will continue.  My feeling is this will last a week, and I'll come home to hear her talking about how much she hates herself, and her wanting me to somehow stop her negative thinking (an impossible task)

All this says to me is that my BPDgf is incapable of putting herself in another's shoes.   And considering that putting myself in others' shoes a primary way in which I form my moral standard (golden rule), it almost seems like a no brainer that her behavior has caused so many to abandon her over the years and she still not understanding why.

[maxsterling]

An interesting exchange during couples T yesterday -

We were discussing her upcoming job interview, and the T asked me if her getting a job would alleviate some of my financial worries.  I mentioned that wasn't my main worry - her disability money has helped already with financial concerns.  I explained my main worry is her happiness, or lack thereof, and that I just want to see her have something for herself, so that I feel less like a caretaker.  I explained that in my mind material things and money take a back seat to happiness.  That means for her to get a job, the income means nothing to me, what matters is seeing her take care of herself and having something that makes her happy and optimistic for the future. 

But somewhere during this conversation, my GF interrupted, and said, "does money or me getting a job have something to do with marriage?"  Pretty clear here that she just does not get it.  Somewhere in her mind she is racing over that we have been together for a year and she can't figure out why we aren't married yet.  I've told her before the basic things- I want to feel secure and stable.  But this isn't a concrete answer for her, and it drives her nuts.  So she assumes it is some other reason - money or some defined moral value of mine that I am keeping secret from her.  It's like she wants me to tell her what to do so that we can get married - and I worry that the reason she is trying to get a job now is only so that I will propose, and that she isn't doing it for her own betterment. 

And in another part of the session, my GF started talking about her self image and people in her past not being supportive. I asked my GF directly if I am supportive, and she replied "yes" but that she wished I would stop her from talking negatively about herself.  The T then asked her what I could do or say to accomplish that, to which my GF gave an example.  T then asked me what I do and if I ever tell her she is attractive or beautiful, and I replied that I do that often, but she refuses my compliments.  I explained that often I will tell her she is beautiful, and she will reply "no I am not, I am fat and ugly."  Or that if she says she hates herself, I will reply, "I don't hate you, I love you." And I described how her reusing my compliments makes me feel - INVALIDATED.  I explained that I see her as beautiful, and when she refuses the compliment it makes me feel there must be something wrong with my perception, and it hurts.  Her constant and vocal negative opinion of herself causes me to feel like there must be something wrong with me for loving her.

To that my GF said she never thought of it that way, and was glad I explained how I feel.   My thought to myself was, "how can she not know how it makes others feel?".  So I asked, "put yourself in my shoes, how would you feel if I was always talking negatively about myself?  I don't like my legs, but you love them.  How would you feel if I was always telling you how I hate my legs?"  She said she would be angry with me.  And with the T's coaching, I think it clicked with her, and suggested that when she hears a compliment from me, she should say "thank you" and let it be.

Afterwards, we went shopping and to dinner.  But on the drive home, she asked if she "always" has to stop the self-hate comments around me and asked how she can describe the way she feels if that is the way she is feeling.  I replied that sometimes it's okay to let that stuff out, but she should be mindful of the way it makes me feel.  So, she then started about how she was trying on clothes at the store and all she could do was look into the mirror and hate the way she looks.   We then went home and she started trying on clothes for her job interview, and basically had mostly negative things to say, but she refrained from the "I hate myself I am so fat and ugly" comments.  So, at least for now I think she will stop the really harsh words, even though her negative talk will continue.  My feeling is this will last a week, and I'll come home to hear her talking about how much she hates herself, and her wanting me to somehow stop her negative thinking (an impossible task)

All this says to me is that my BPDgf is incapable of putting herself in another's shoes.   And considering that putting myself in others' shoes a primary way in which I form my moral standard (golden rule), it almost seems like a no brainer that her behavior has caused so many to abandon her over the years and she still not understanding why.

[In_n_Out]

Well Max, you know from reading my drama filled thread that my ex and yours have a lot of the same BPD "qualities" about them.  This marriage thing... . I guess to them it's the ultimate "I have him now and will forever never be alone again!".  BPD fantasy land stuff obviously.

On the self-hate stuff, I know from reading books and gathering other info about BPD, the "I'm not worthy" and "shame" is a core component of BPD.  Everything that I've read talks about 'validate, validate, validate' and obviously you're blue in face from trying that and it only gets you so far.  That constant self-censoring that one has to do just to communicate with a pwBPD is just so draining.  I wish that I had an answer for you.  I like your "legs" analogy though and no, you lop off your leg and she'd only be concerned because *her* emotions would be affected by the trauma.  Hang in their bud, at least you guys are seeing a T together; better than what I was able to accomplish with my ex!

[Surnia]

Yes, very interesting exchange in your T session, maxsterling.

Now I am sitting quite a while meditating about this sentence:

Her constant and vocal negative opinion of herself causes me to feel like there must be something wrong with me for loving her.

Does it has to be one opinion on her? Or could it be that your love is reality (I prefer this word over right and wrong) and her negative opinion too?