Hatred for your BPD SO

[gotbushels]

How do you deal with this?

gf = uBPDgf

Am doing distracting things and it's only been eating me up for 2 hours.

I stay up til 5am the day before work FIGHTING with her. I used to work til 5am just under half the time, back at the office at 10am and sleep is so treasured it's worth more than gold. She told me to stay up til 6 recently the day before a career-critical exam, as PUNISHMENT for a fight over why her proposal was in this country instead of XYZ country?

Situation just now:

- She meets guy X ~3 months ago through woman Y. I think nothing of it as I've met him too.

- 4 weeks ago when I wouldn't put up with her crap for my exams, we start strong boundary enforcement for the first time.

- She breaks up with me ("You don't love me the same anymore"

- Tells me she started seeing someone else

- Texts me telling me X and a few other men are interested

- I tell her I don't care and that I won't be affected by threats of other men

- Calls me, tells me she lied about seeing someone else, wants to get back together with me

- I accept (she wants to break up almost every 2 weeks. working on it)

- Tells no one up until today that we are back together again because it makes her "uncomfortable"

- She is unable to explain why

- I'm OK with that

- Guy X tells woman Y that my gf is "her type"

- Background on Y: tells my gf she is wrong to see my P (after ALL MY HARD WORK) and that my gf deserves better and "sometimes it's not meant to be". Y has cheated on her ex bf, broke up with him ~3 months ago (I was there to comfort her with my gf), and since then, has slept with 3 men.

- X starts texting her over this time: "free for lunch?" "free for dinner?" "come out tonight" "get better soon... . "

- gf goes drinking at bar that Y likes and that X works at, says she's back at 11pm, gets drunk, stays until 12 playing drinking games with some other men and Y

- X asks Y to pass her medicinal tea, flu medication and cough drops. She's drunk and climbing into the taxi so takes them home

- She meets me at home and tells me about the gifts. I try so hard but I can't control my rage. For the first time with violence, I smash my fist into the window. I walk out before I start destroying things so I can calm down

- I tell her I can't tolerate X's behaviour and that she can refuse his gifts

- gf tells me "as long as I don't reciprocate it's fine"

- gf texts him still and pretends like he hasn't asked her out or done any advances (that's her not reciprocating)

- Today I surprise her when she arrives at airport

- Turns out woman Y is there to pick them up with a friend

- Woman Y hands her some expensive honey from New Zealand, and tells me she bought it for her in English

- Woman Y and gf chat in another language for a while

- I ask her to join us and that she might as well as she came all this way, she says no

- I turn around and see Y with X walking away

- I'm too shocked to be angry and let it slide

- I find out later that the honey is from X and she accepted it after Y told her in the other language it was from X and he was the "friend"

- I was so angry she didn't refuse the honey after she knows how I felt about X and his gifts

So I try to sort this out with her just now. After about 30 minutes of talking, she put the phone in front of us, turned on the timer, and told me I had 3 minutes to finish talking to her about an extremely difficult conversation for me. I was SO angry and I used Linehan's techniques to calm myself down. I wanted to smash something and destroy something. I was infuriated.

Tonight, unlike me, she didn't have an exam or a first day at a job she slaved her ass of to get. She wanted to rest before drinking til 5 in the morning with her friends. It was 11pm. I finished what I had to say calmly and focus on "I feel" statements without "you" in it to get my message across.

I'm the one doing all the research, reading late into the night, memorising techniques to calm myself down, structure everything I say into SET after SET after SET, working to stay CALM, formulating a plan to bring her into my P's office, bullhitting that *I* have depression to work our way into getting *her* treated, sneaking to see my P for solutions after she called me "weak" for needing "professional help", constructing and dealing with attacks while attempting to set boundaries so I can actually study for an exam that my career depends on.

All this even after I told her how terrible she was when she fights with me the day before my big job in the industry I always wanted. Fights with me before critical days in my working life when I can barely even think straight in the morning.

I ask her to stop handling this attention from X. You know she says to me? She says "you told me you weren't affected by other men". OM***G. I EXPLAINED to her I won't accept them as a THREAT. I smashed a bloody window, so clearly I'm affected if they are courting her and she lets them.

I feel as if I can't expect a THING from her. I can't help but think, "what a blithering f_ idiot". My gf is mid twenties. Yes, that places her round about 14 in maturity. Which probably explains things to you veterans. Yes, it's my fault for choosing to stay. Yes I can leave.

I thought I would be OK if I can bear out the dysregulation, but I'm reminded here that BPD is a trait-based disorder (Kreisman) and I have (but conveniently forgotten) and will continue to have to cope with this kind of lack of empathy.

I want to stay but she makes it SO ridiculously hard sometimes. Sure she's not a drug addict or cheater with an STD, but she has beaten me multiple times and caused bleeding. A year ago she's gone home with another man and asked me "for permission" to sleep with him while on the bed with him. She dysregulates every 1-2 weeks, violently, until a month ago after working through it with her (without any BPD resources at all! how the hell did that happen)

I have never hit a woman in my life but in my mind I sometimes want to beat her to pieces. I am considering going to see my P again because I'm becoming increasingly angrier and impatient with her after she's revealed to me what a terrible person part of her is.

I feel I've had to shift my entire paradigm of what a relationship is from mutual love, support and nurture, into care-taking a 14 year old for life. Sure she'll grow to be 24 mentally in 10 years but wow... . and seemingly no gratitude at all for all the nightmares she's put me through.

How do you do it? I tried to separate my feelings over the last few hours but I feel like she doesn't give a damn about how I feel so she can what, get attention from a guy? Make me suffer so she gets attention when I CAN'T give her attention because of my job/exams? How do you deal with the rage? How can you feel compassionate for such a ******?

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[ShakinMyHead]

So sorry you are going through this GotBushels…. My exBPDbf did a lot of the same stuff and more, and different as your BPDgf. His passive aggressiveness drives me into a rage as well. His twisting everything I say, distorting all my intentions, essentially projecting all of his behavior and motives onto me and blaming what he is responsible for on me, and I think he really believes that "I am the sick one." It kept me locked in this place of needing to prove to him I wasn't this horrible person he was making me out to be. This was all and always happening so we could never discuss in any cohesive manner the real issues at hand, like,  his lying, infidelity, punishing behavior. Which of course either didn't exist, I was imagining, or I drove him, forced his hand to do, because I was driving him away, by being a devoted, caring, present and loyal partner. And still my heart is broken. I was very recently weak and broke my no contact only to be told by him that he has started dating. Started, he's been seeing women through out our monogamous relationship? That he has begun, slowly seeing a PHD. Slowly? huh? I'm an LCSW, so he couldn't wait to label her, if she even exists, as a Dr. He then says to me, "My PHD, says you and I are not meant to be." Well, I'm sure she did, as I'm sure the way you portrayed me, and are seducing her, and what are the chances she specializes in Cluster B's? The real question is why do I/we allow ourselves to be treated this way. It's so painful. I would never treat a human being the way this man has treated me, and yet, I feel broken, and not appropriately angry. Hope things get better for you, please take care of yourself. They will be long gone when we are picking up the ruins of our lives… SMH

[gotbushels]

I'm thinking of raising all her little things first and simulating getting upset at them because she was roughly supposed to dysregulate a few days ago. Then I got upset. Maybe that interrupted the cycle and moved her into a "Contributing" mindset. Devious but it's better than her initiation. Controlled burning like a forest fire. If I continue that it may be more tolerable than the naturally triggered forest fire itself. It's not sustainable but we're on the cusp of therapy and it may make her behaviour much more manageable.

[gotbushels]

I think I've been too harsh with my expectations of her. Too much expectations that she will be able to apply things properly as ive taught her. Feeling emotionally skinless at that time.

Feeling i place high expectations on her because thats what i tend to do to people. People that ask a lot have seemed to offer a lot in my experience. I've been working in environments with people that tend to ask a lot when they can give a lot.

When she asks so many things of me over time, and given the pain she's put me through, I feel my expectations have grown larger as well. I felt cheated that I put so much in and can't expect something I expect to be simple. It's a recurring theme I have been working at mentally.

It's not easy for her and it may not fair to assume shes competent on this thing.

I want to believe she is not being selfish or malicious intentionally. I need to learn to be more tolerant of the rift in my expectations and really accept who she is if I want to keep doing this.

I wish I had the right answers automatically but it seems all my emotional work over my life just doesn't apply to her.

I want to feel more thankful I haven't got a much worse case.

So what helped me over these 12 hours was relaxation exercises, having organised a meal with friends for myself, doing 'distress tolerance' exercises throughout chores, sleep, her being out with her friends enforcing "her boundaries" yeah we've been working on that.

It's given me insight into her again. I felt like I was dysregulating. I felt great emotion but I still have the control. It must be much harder for her.

I read more of Manning just now instead if Fruzzetti and it have me a bit more insight and made me feel a bit more compassionate.

[Surrender]

They will be long gone when we are picking up the ruins of our lives… SMH

It truly does feel this way... . that we are the ones left picking up the ruins of our lives. I don't understand it and wish to God it wasn't like this. I am speechless and so wounded. Not even sure why or how I got to loving him so much? I find it wretched that we all here have struggled inside the worst convoluted nightmare with those we fell in love with only to discover the terrible distortions that robbed us of loving them.

As much as I could understand BPD, narcissism, avoidant pd, mother enmeshment and all the other bent illnesses that twisted my partner into a tortured soul unable to love or be loved I will never understand it and there will come a day when I will no longer care. Come that day come!

[SleepsOnSofa]

How do we put up with it? With great pain and difficulty.

Why do we put up with it? Our reasons vary, I suppose. I have only one, though. I share a 6-year-old daughter with my uBPDw, a wonderful, bright little girl with a beautiful heart, and I am terrified that if I were to leave, that little girl would become the target of my wife's dysregulation. As long as I'm in the house, I can stand between my daughter and that, most of the time. If we didn't have the child, I'd have left long, long ago, because the cost to my career, my health, my sanity, and my happiness has been far too great.

If I were to try to divorce, I'd be facing an ugly, destructive custody battle where the best possible outcome would be 50-50 shared custody. In other words, the best I could hope for would be a tie. So I will be as strong as I can for my daughter until she's 18. When she becomes a legal adult, I can file for the divorce.

That said, Gotbushels, if you are going through this much misery over a girlfriend to whom you have no legal ties, you should seriously consider whether the cost is worth the benefit. If you're seeing a therapist, discuss with him or her if this is a healthy relationship for you. I think a lot of us in relationships with BPDs have co-dependent tendencies that leave us especially vulnerable to the kind of manipulation that BPDs use daily without even realizing they're doing it. I believe that the people who are most at-risk to be harmed by involvement with a BPD are the exact sorts of people most likely to find themselves staying in such relationships long after the cost has exceeded any benefit.

And most important of all, do this soul-searching assessment before you're married to this person, and especially before you have a child together.

[Surrender]

I agree with SleepOnSofa you seem to be hanging on but to the detriment and destruction of yourself. There was a point inside the pain when I realized it would never ever end. That was when I finally let go the last time he broke up with me in a rage. I let it be and inside myself I knew I had had enough and that I stopped fighting for him and for us a while back it was merely catching up with me and so when he raged and screamed we were over I knew at that moment that we were indeed over. It had been enough abuse and no matter how many times I was told how much he loves me and how I am the only one like a child it only meant that at that moment he really liked that toy. If I took the toy away right after he told me he loved me he would rage and fill me with his toxic hate so round and round and round we go, where we stop... . we well know! It is always and will always be inside the same viscious abusive cycle and you will always be the victim.

How much more of that do you think you want to endure when in the end you will end up in the very same place that you are now? The difference is that more of your precious healing time will have gone by and you will have invested more heart, sweat, blood and tears... . the very stuff that you barely have left because of all the agony and pain you have suffered?

How much resolve do you have left to seriously never alter a thing but only end up even more broken if that is possible?

It's damn hard no matter what but I'm thankful at least that it's over. Now it's healing time and soon the sun will come out to shine for the first time in years. I feel hope even though I'm broken but I'm just at the beginning of my loss.

[SleepsOnSofa]

I was rereading this thread, and I remembered something someone said to me a long time ago. It had nothing to do with BPD or anything else, it was just good relationship advice.

What makes a relationship a healthy one is not how you feel about your partner, but how your partner makes you feel about yourself. Thinking someone else is amazing is a crush; when someone amazing makes you feel like you're amazing, that's love.

And one thing that I actually figured out for myself, though I forgot to listen to my own advice when it mattered: No matter how much you love someone, you can't love them enough to make them love themselves.

(I wrote a much longer post, but deleted it. I'll let these messages stand on their own for anyone considering entering a long-term commitment to a BPD partner.)

[yeeter]

I was rereading this thread, and I remembered something someone said to me a long time ago. It had nothing to do with BPD or anything else, it was just good relationship advice.

What makes a relationship a healthy one is not how you feel about your partner, but how your partner makes you feel about yourself. Thinking someone else is amazing is a crush; when someone amazing makes you feel like you're amazing, that's love.

And one thing that I actually figured out for myself, though I forgot to listen to my own advice when it mattered: No matter how much you love someone, you can't love them enough to make them love themselves.

(I wrote a much longer post, but deleted it. I'll let these messages stand on their own for anyone considering entering a long-term commitment to a BPD partner.)

These are great quotes, and I often wonder what to tell/teach my children about relationships (given they arent seeing the type I would like for them to experience).  These two are going into the toolbox as fatherly advice for them.

[gotbushels]

Thank you guys.

It's really quite tumultuous on the inside. To stay or to go. I've thought of the grey area where one might remain friends as "normal" people do (is that what normal people do?) and if we still want to be together after we've sorted out our issues, then we're in a better position to do that.

Then, predictably, she goes black or white. We are either together, or never communicate with each other, ever. I'm keeping to my boundaries, trying to separate my emotions, get out of the FOG I've been twirled into, and develop my career meanwhile.

... .

If she walks out like she just did last night after refusing to talk to me (2 days after the first post), I remind myself I can't make her change.

I'll state it here because it's starting to look funny, tolerable, and acceptable (not permissible) given the knowledge I now have.

It's about 2 am. We had a big date night just now. We were in bed. She couldn't sleep for about an hour.

She got her things and walked out to sleep at her friend's place again. I went after her and attempted to validate and speak to her. I felt she is upset again that I refuse to absorb her feelings and dance around for her to "make herself feel better" even though it doesn't. She says she hates the "new me" and hates the "psycho blah blah talk". I feel I can't SET or validate at this point because I can't disguise it. She says she will just have to accept it. Strong woman. Still have hope for her, at times like that.

I hug her. Agitated, he tells me not to lean on her because it's uncomfortable. She starts to walk off and asks me not to follow her. I want to be there for her, and can tolerate this walk, after all, she has made efforts to help herself a lot in the last 2 weeks, surely I can extend my limits to accommodate this one.

After 10 minutes of walking behind her on the street. I stop, wait, and turn around. I arrive home. She calls me and asks me where I am. She yells at me for not caring about her. She commands me come after her to give her her belongings. I get her things and I walk. She yells at me on the phone for not running to where she is. I keep quiet. She keeps yelling at me. I tell her calmly that if she'd like the items faster, she should walk towards me. I should have held my tongue and used a SET technique. But, it probably won't work though as she told me she's sick of the "psycho talk".

She runs at me when she sees me and attempts to slap me around and batter my head. I walk away. She runs after me and continues. I let her wear off after controlling her. I am in control and see the lose-lose. She tells me she will never, ever talk to me again, over and over. I know I shouldn't validate or reinforce this behaviour so I just stand there. She starts to walk off. I want to defuse it so I go after her and hug her tightly and tell her I love her. She struggles and pushes me away. She walks off yet again. I tried. Any more and I will start to really validate her actions, which are wrong. I walk off too. Unfortunately, we were at a dead-end so we are walking in parallel on the opposite sides of the street. She accuses me for being like someone she knows that doesn't care, for "changing the way I love her" and thanks me for walking away. She victimises herself. I lose it a bit and tell her "thanks a lot for f_ing me when I follow you, and f_ing me when I don't. Way to set that up. Well done."

I wanted to attack her verbally, console her, and start the 3 hour dance of trying to convince her that I love her, which usually ends with her making a demand of me like "I want a house" or "don't talk to your brother ever again". But I just walked away. I didn't know what the optimal is as others suggest, so instead I do what Kreger suggests for now, and I walk. I don't feel good but I feel it was better than that dance.

... .

In hindsight I should have done some Linehan techniques in bed when she was agitated before she started dysregulating. I was tired and wanted to sleep. I got careless and hoped she'd fall asleep too. Guess it's not one of those nights.

I'm in the middle of reading Manning at the moment and I'm finding myself being accepting (not endorsing) that she is what she is not because of maliciousness, but because she doesn't know any better.

SleepsOnSofa, what you said did hit a chord with me. With reference to my situation, if she decides to go gallivanting with other men, it's how I would treat a normal relationship: I will do my best, but I will stick to my values and also accept that I do not want to be with a woman that still treats me as an option or '2nd best' in spite of what I've done for her. I will not be one of those men.

I have accounted for the fact that attention from men is a 'crutch' for her because it gives her good feelings and control. For this, I will accept it, and put in extra effort for her, but will not fight and allow her to use what she does as threats. She knows my lines and if she crosses them, the light is certainly shining on the other pasture. I am hee for her now but I do have my lines. This I do know.

Being alone is better than being chronically bullied and emotionally abused. There is a difference between serving someone to help them, and being trod on repeatedly. Pathological or not, I guess it's not her time to be with me. It's hard to accept that, but at least I have my long term goals and have my support group. I realised I adore female companionship and get depressed when I'm alone. Yet, I've thought it through over and over again. I'd rather be alone than continuously go through that, in spite of what I've given.

I will use the skills I've gained and continue to gain, and I have seen fruits with her, and I will see fruits in my life, but I will not let my needs be trod on over and over again. I will not stretch myself and be bullied to submission. I will not be a 68-year-old giving a case study to nons later.

I think this in respect of her, and with compassion for a fellow human being where cards are against her. 'Psychosocial' explanation accounted for, I will just do my best and accept that sometimes, that's how the cookie crumbles.

I feel I can change, and I feel I can use all these great techniques. But I need to accept and respect fate if she can't deal with her problems too. Looks like I may be 'just another ex' after all. We'll see.

[ShakinMyHead]

gotbushels, I feel you. You are not alone. You are not insane. Love is not 1 fish flailing on the hot cement, watching their partner swim away constantly with another. We do have to clean up our side of the street though, and you, like me, like many others here are tolerating way too much, WHY? This is the only pathology ultimately that we can control, that we are avoiding. This thread is so valuable for others, specially during withdrawal, to help to not "pick up", if you will? That is a wonderful thing. 'When you can't help yourself, do service." You are doing service, thereby helping yourself. Thank you so much for helping me through another day of No Contact. I've been white knuckling it, and wasn't sure how I was going to get through today and your thread bought me sometime, maybe a whole day? What a gift. I sound like a f--king martyr, yeeesh! But,  Bless you. Find some peace for yourself today. Let your mind rest... these problems will be here whenever you feel like "picking up again" You are in my prayers... SMH

[gotbushels]

gotbushels, I feel you. You are not alone. You are not insane. Love is not 1 fish flailing on the hot cement, watching their partner swim away constantly with another. We do have to clean up our side of the street though, and you, like me, like many others here are tolerating way too much, WHY? This is the only pathology ultimately that we can control, that we are avoiding. This thread is so valuable for others, specially during withdrawal, to help to not "pick up", if you will? That is a wonderful thing. 'When you can't help yourself, do service." You are doing service, thereby helping yourself. Thank you so much for helping me through another day of No Contact. I've been white knuckling it, and wasn't sure how I was going to get through today and your thread bought me sometime, maybe a whole day? What a gift. I sound like a f--king martyr, yeeesh! But,  Bless you. Find some peace for yourself today. Let your mind rest... these problems will be here whenever you feel like "picking up again" You are in my prayers... SMH

Thank you, SMH.

I've been reading Manning, and taken what you said into account, along with others on the 'success stories' board that they needed very much to look into themselves in order to make a difference. I'm really critically working on that now, I feel. It's one thing to memorise Kreger's "how to mirror" section and use it, but another to use Manning's '5 step response' and execute it successfully. We aren't trained Ts after all. Just have to try and hope. We have hope, they don't... . so we might as well use it.

I'm so glad this thread has been useful to you in your situation SMH. TBH I wrote my bits in a bit of a rage... . relativism to you for comfort is definitely a pleasant side-effect   In addition, seeing that my writing has brought you peace, has given me even more peace, so thank you.

... .

What makes a relationship a healthy one is not how you feel about your partner, but how your partner makes you feel about yourself. Thinking someone else is amazing is a crush; when someone amazing makes you feel like you're amazing, that's love.

... .

These are great quotes, and I often wonder what to tell/teach my children about relationships (given they arent seeing the type I would like for them to experience).  These two are going into the toolbox as fatherly advice for them.

Agreed. Thank SOS. I've ruminated on that first quote a lot since you wrote it and it's very meaningful to me.

[SleepsOnSofa]

Sorry for being away from the boards for several days. I don't log in at home, because I don't want my uBPDw to know about this community. (I know all about in-private browsing and deleting the history, but eventually, some day, I'd fail to cover my tracks on the home computer, and my connection here, tenuous as it is, would be lost to me.)

Gotbushels, I'm going to toss one more quote at you:

"You can't help someone who doesn't want help."


Put down the Manning and the Kreger and the Fruzzetti and the Marzipan and the Dingleberry... . those are all intended to help you help her, and she clearly isn't interested in help. You are not married to this woman, and you have no common children... . yet. Whether intentionally or not, she is manipulating you into seeing yourself purely in terms of how you are affected by her. You are becoming a minor character in your own life, and you're giving her the starring role. You can't fix her, but you can try to fix you. And you can't fix yourself by defining yourself entirely by a quixotic mission to fix someone who does not believe she needs fixing.

This woman is not your responsibility... . yet. But someday, probably soon, she will be, unless you take steps to prevent that. Step number one is, when she breaks up with you... . let her. Do not try to convince her to stay with you, to let you back in, because you are only teaching her that threatening to break up with you gives her control over you. She is going to do this to you over and over until you call her bluff and let her walk away.

At the very minimum, you need to attach some boundaries and limits to any resumption of your relationship with her, and those boundaries will need to be strictly and unflinchingly enforced. This will not be accomplished if you chase her down and beg her to let you keep being her boyfriend. Every time that happens, you lose a little more of yourself to the monster inside her that is consuming both of you.

In all honesty, I fear you are walking into many years, decades, or a lifetime, of loneliness and misery, believing that if you read enough and try hard enough and love her deeply enough, you can fix her. You can't. Maybe, with proper help, she can make herself a bit better, but you can't do it for her, so stop trying.

If you were already married to her, and especially if you had children together - as I do with my uBPDw - my advice might be different. But you're not, and you don't. This is not a dragon you can slay, so don't sacrifice your life in the attempt.

[gotbushels]

... .

"You can't help someone who doesn't want help."


Put down the Manning and the Kreger and the Fruzzetti and the Marzipan and the Dingleberry... .

HAHAHHA thanks SOS this was hilarious. It really really feels like im marzipaning trying to help us. Probably why i cracked up in this cafe im in. Thanks for your comment and no worries on timing. Im going to read your comment properly and give it due thought.

[gotbushels]

My apologies for the rubbish formatting in the last comment.

[Washisheart]

Sleeps~ you are so right about long term life decisions. My uBPDfiance' have been engaged for over a year. For a while he pressed me about a date, and I would really just avoid the question. I wasn't going to set a date until I knew the in&outs were over and that he was here to stay. Now, he's starting to be affected by my avoidance of the question and starting to come up with various reasons we aren't getting married. So it's "his" decision. Sure, whatever makes him happy. Although, we have not broken up while he chases another woman who will hate him in a month, there has been so much cruelty out his mouth I won't marry into that. Like you guys, he hates the changes he sees in me. Hates that he's no longer manipulating me. I started working out almost every day. I am planning to go back to school for my masters. I am focusing now more on myself. And making him eat his words (like he gates my cooking always talks about how he refused to eat it, so now I stopped cooking and get to hear about how hungry he is ).

I am no longer tripping over my own feet, walking on egg shells in my own home. And regardless of how much he hates his loss of power, I love it.

[gotbushels]

Sorry for being away from the boards for several days. I don't log in at home, because I don't want my uBPDw to know about this community. (I know all about in-private browsing and deleting the history, but eventually, some day, I'd fail to cover my tracks on the home computer, and my connection here, tenuous as it is, would be lost to me.)

Gotbushels, I'm going to toss one more quote at you:

"You can't help someone who doesn't want help."

Agreed. This has been a recurring phrase when I'm thinking things through.

Put down the Manning and the Kreger and the Fruzzetti and the Marzipan and the Dingleberry... . those are all intended to help you help her, and she clearly isn't interested in help. You are not married to this woman, and you have no common children... . yet. Whether intentionally or not, she is manipulating you into seeing yourself purely in terms of how you are affected by her. You are becoming a minor character in your own life, and you're giving her the starring role. You can't fix her, but you can try to fix you. And you can't fix yourself by defining yourself entirely by a quixotic mission to fix someone who does not believe she needs fixing.

Agreed. She believes she needs fixing. A condition is that I need to look at myself.

I respect your comment regarding the resources. I feel that continually reading this board and getting more educated, I want to hit a success story. I think the way to do that is to see my role in all this. I feel I'm growing in my own skills and I can see clearer now in our arguments.

I accept your phrase "quixotic mission". I disagree it's excessively idealistic. I think it becomes excessively idealistic when it's at a huge sacrifice to myself. I've gotten a lot of time to think and I've noticed I've contributed to where she is now with how I handle things too. I feel that you care through that phrase and I'm thankful for it. The rest of my life is quite well on track and I'm going to do my best to make my life work.

This woman is not your responsibility... . yet. But someday, probably soon, she will be, unless you take steps to prevent that. Step number one is, when she breaks up with you... . let her. Do not try to convince her to stay with you, to let you back in, because you are only teaching her that threatening to break up with you gives her control over you. She is going to do this to you over and over until you call her bluff and let her walk away.

At the very minimum, you need to attach some boundaries and limits to any resumption of your relationship with her, and those boundaries will need to be strictly and unflinchingly enforced. This will not be accomplished if you chase her down and beg her to let you keep being her boyfriend. Every time that happens, you lose a little more of yourself to the monster inside her that is consuming both of you.

I chased her down but I didn't beg her to get back together with me. I told her that her happiness was important to me. I was OK for her to go if she really wanted to. We haven't gotten back together. I'm OK with how things are. I have my internal boundaries and time frames, but I'm content with how we are. I'm not getting into conflicts haphazardly and without control anymore.

I certainly agree to boundaries and limits. I believe they are essential. I think it's important to not be too harsh on some of our BPD SOs. They are like they are for reasons. I know I contributed. I think her exs contributed a lot. I think her parents are hugely responsible. I think therefore it's important to have some kind of flexibility, because while those limits are there, if it can be coupled with a strong sense of self, I think it would be easier on the BP. I believe I've experienced a few pits of not having boundaries, and I know we won't last without them, and I believe I'm strong enough to be flexible and communicate how I feel about that flexibility with my BP.

In all honesty, I fear you are walking into many years, decades, or a lifetime, of loneliness and misery, believing that if you read enough and try hard enough and love her deeply enough, you can fix her. You can't. Maybe, with proper help, she can make herself a bit better, but you can't do it for her, so stop trying.

If you were already married to her, and especially if you had children together - as I do with my uBPDw - my advice might be different. But you're not, and you don't. This is not a dragon you can slay, so don't sacrifice your life in the attempt.

Thank you for your kind and generous thoughts. It certainly pains me to read cases upon cases of men and women who live through abusive relationships year after year. I appreciate you bringing this up.

I agree that I can't fix her. I feel I've resigned that decision to her. I will continue to try my best, but I will no longer willingly bleed for it. I will keep my limits. I will accept when my best efforts don't work.

I am keeping my limits and times in mind. She has really surprised me with her progress in these few short weeks. I really feel I'm not dealing with an extreme case. I'm not going in blind. I am trying not to expose myself too badly with lofty expectations of her behaviour. I sleep easy at night knowing that I'm trying my best, that I can't change her if she doesn't want it, and that she knows that I genuinely care about our relationship. It's similar to high school dating I guess. I believe you can't really make someone love you. You can't make someone change to help the relationship work. They will only change if they want to.

I feel I can say these things with the note that I come from a different perspective. It's the one you addressed about where we are in our relationship. I believe I am relatively young, and have the time. My career is where I need it to be right now. My friendships are being rekindled. There is more hope than before. If I was older and didn't have this time on my hands, I would probably share your view more closely. I don't think I will regret putting in this time for her. I believe that in working on myself right now, mostly for her, a byproduct is that I'm becoming a better person myself. I don't feel I'm a blind 'knight' wannabe anymore. I feel I know my rights as a person, and I'm becoming more skilled at deescalating and staying in control in other situations.

I see fruits at the moment in my relationship from looking inward. I have seen fruits in remaining in calm and in control in the face of a large steroid-filled man, as well as in the face of an angry professional.

I'm doing this for her right now, but I am learning so much about myself as well, I feel.