Sitting on a porch, enjoying the sunset

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I'm turning 50 in October.  I am thankful to have lived this long. 

In thinking about my life, and my future, I wonder where I'll be in 10 years, 20 years.  My mom lived till the age of 64 (her dad died in his 40's), and my dad is still alive at age 75, with his father living till 92 and his mother dying in her 70's.  My future is unpredictable as far as how long I'll live, genetically speaking.

Sometimes, I'm so caught up in the moment that I can't imagine living much longer, and sometimes I see myself sitting on a porch somewhere, enjoying a sunset in my ripe old age.

I'd like to set my sights on that sunset, and not focus on the 'little things', but I have this nagging feeling if I don't deal with the moment, it's going to impact my health - mental, leading to physical.

I work out a lot, so the activity level is good.  I have a stable job that pays enough to live in nice setting.  The one thing I'm missing is a partner.  I'm starting to understand that it's not imperative to having a good, long life, but it is important - the touch, the companionship. 

I do have some good friends that have stuck by me, and am meeting new people that have potential for being a support system.

Not sure what I need to do next, however, I'd like to dig a little more into what it will take to get me through to that sunset in a peaceful style.

Anyone want to share where they see themselves in the future, and what you think it's going to take to get you there?  Would love to hear about it. 

[Want2know]

I'm turning 50 in October.  I am thankful to have lived this long. 

In thinking about my life, and my future, I wonder where I'll be in 10 years, 20 years.  My mom lived till the age of 64 (her dad died in his 40's), and my dad is still alive at age 75, with his father living till 92 and his mother dying in her 70's.  My future is unpredictable as far as how long I'll live, genetically speaking.

Sometimes, I'm so caught up in the moment that I can't imagine living much longer, and sometimes I see myself sitting on a porch somewhere, enjoying a sunset in my ripe old age.

I'd like to set my sights on that sunset, and not focus on the 'little things', but I have this nagging feeling if I don't deal with the moment, it's going to impact my health - mental, leading to physical.

I work out a lot, so the activity level is good.  I have a stable job that pays enough to live in nice setting.  The one thing I'm missing is a partner.  I'm starting to understand that it's not imperative to having a good, long life, but it is important - the touch, the companionship. 

I do have some good friends that have stuck by me, and am meeting new people that have potential for being a support system.

Not sure what I need to do next, however, I'd like to dig a little more into what it will take to get me through to that sunset in a peaceful style.

Anyone want to share where they see themselves in the future, and what you think it's going to take to get you there?  Would love to hear about it. 

[Tolou]

Wanttoknow

Nice post.  I'm in my early 30's.  Right now, as I try looking towards the future it is unclear to me, and that's okay.  I would love to settle down someday and have a family, it would be nice.  However, I will not settle just to settle.  I thought I may have found her once, the only time I felt that, and I was very wrong.  I have someone now, whom I care alot about, she's close to your age and she's done with kids, waiting for the last one to move out, so that future with her is not possible-unfortunately.  It's wierd that I met someone that I feel so in touch with and comfortable, yet I can't share with her the things I desire most, like the possiblity of having a family.  So as I look towards the future, I think it's a little uncertain what it holds for me because I'm not ready to let go of this woman, she's special to me (not the reason I'm on these boards).  However, I feel that staying in this realtionship, I am being somewhat selfish.  She's looking for a companion, as am I, but I already know that it can only go so far... . and the longer I stay, the more we will hurt when it ends, but we have been that for eachother for now, it has been working, so why mess up a good thing?

We were both alone when we met, would go out after work sometimes to unwind, have drink, then things just made sense.  We no longer work togeather because we found better career paths but sometimes I think I'm selling myself short, because she has in a way lived her life... . Were a good fit, except, if I choose to stay... . I will not create the life I want... . It is almost as if I am settling not be alone, very wierd... . Any advice would be nice? soory to take up your post, but since you mentioned your age looking towards the future, I thought of her and wondered the same thing now.

[DreamGirl]

I have this story that I tell sometimes about a day when I was in intensive therapy, I had done EMDR the day before and my PTSD symptoms were off the charts (hypervigilant and over reactive)... . I was in a really bad mood driving home from work.

I decided to take a different route home, then the same old way. I thought that maybe if I had to pay attention to where I was going, I wouldn't hone in on the darkness.

So I did.

It was so funny, karmatic, whatever because as I was paying attention to the new street signs passing by, there was actually a street named "Happiness". I had to turn on it! An abrupt right and I thought "where will Happiness take me?". Oh the irony that Happiness Street was a circle that lead me right back to where I started... . on my way home.    

My point.

Doing something different when what you're doing isn't working is a really good thing.    

If you have done that and are living your life in a way that feels right to you, you'll attract who you want in your life. If you are making friends who bring out the best parts of you, that circle of people will widen and that person who compliments you will enter stage right. I know that it sounds all Zen - but while I'm not a big believer in fate, but I do believe that we acquire an ability to actually see what's in front of us.

There's also always online dating sites.  

[Lucky Jim]

Hi Want2know, All great thoughts.  My suggestion is that you continue to work on your own personal growth, as you head towards that sunset.  Just sitting with your thoughts, observing without judging, is a good way to get in touch with your gut feelings.  At the risk of sounding Zen-like, as DreamGirl mentions, I predict that when you are ready the right person will appear.  You seem to be on the right path, in my view.  LuckyJim

[talithacumi]

Mmmmm ... .

Little house - maybe one of those tiny houses! - ooh, with pool AND Japanese soaking tub! - in a really sunny, really warm place where I can garden, renovate/remodel, write, knit, listen to music, do more research in history and religious studies, maybe publish, definitely have my kids visit/stay in their own tiny house, talk with friends til the wee hours of the morn over some truly wonderful dry red (maybe of my own vintage even!), and even sleep ALL outside MOST of the year.

French bulldog. White with a couple of cockeyed black spots to give him some character. Well trained. Good company. Someone to get me off my butt, and out of the house for a walk every day. I'd call him Orly, but only if it really suits him. Might just have to play that one by ear.

Month long visits each year to all the places I've always longed to see/experience. Greece. Egypt. Italy. Prague. Tunisia. Morroco.

Quiet. Relatively boring after 30 years of being a mom, and 12+ years doing the dance with my ex upwBPD partner.

A simple, studious, adventurous, creative, and vital bohemian retirement.

Maybe with an ocean view.

[Want2know]

A simple, studious, adventurous, creative, and vital bohemian retirement.

Maybe with an ocean view.

Love this!  An ocean view from my porch would be lovely. 

I'm not really concerned about the relationship part, finding a partner.  I believe that will happen when I'm ready.

I think my post was stemming more from sometimes I avoid addressing the 'little things', and then they build into bigger things.  I'm getting better at that now, and need to remain focused on not letting these moments slip by or go unaddressed.

For example, when I feel triggered, instead of reacting, I try to sit back, think about why I'm feeling this way, and do the self-soothing.  If I did fall back into reacting to the trigger, and it could be something so small, I feel like that issue will never get resolved. 

I think I'm selling myself short, because she has in a way lived her life... . Were a good fit, except, if I choose to stay... . I will not create the life I want... . It is almost as if I am settling not be alone, very weird... . Any advice would be nice?

Without knowing your situation, my initial thought is there is probably always going to be some compromise.  I think that this is part of the reason why I'm ok with not being in a relationship right now, as compromising in a healthy manner that doesn't negate what you want your life to be means you have to have be able to understand and be solid in what you value, and set boundaries around those things - I'm not quite there yet.

[talithacumi]

I think my post was stemming more from sometimes I avoid addressing the 'little things', and then they build into bigger things.  I'm getting better at that now, and need to remain focused on not letting these moments slip by or go unaddressed.

For example, when I feel triggered, instead of reacting, I try to sit back, think about why I'm feeling this way, and do the self-soothing.  If I did fall back into reacting to the trigger, and it could be something so small, I feel like that issue will never get resolved. 

All this personal growth stuff - learning to value yourself for who/what you really are, setting boundaries, recognizing when/how they're being violated, and figuring out how to mindfully address them - it's a lot of work that really takes us out of our comfort zone. Much easier to just want to avoid addressing the little things. Sometimes that's okay, but other times, yes, all that happens is that they turn into bigger things that are harder for us to address in the way we'd really like if only because there's always just a little bit of anger with ourselves there for not addressing it earlier that keeps threatening to spill over and make it a little uglier than we know it really should be.

Really good that you're recognizing when you're triggered by something. Even better that you're not allowing yourself to simply react to it. Better still that you're making time to focus on figuring out what the trigger was and why it makes you feel the way it does, then doing some self-soothing so you don't just keep reacting to it.

For me, it's also really helped to find a time/place where I feel safe so I can allow myself to actually feel those kind of feelings as well. Validate and process them in that way. Remembering, of course, that feelings aren't facts. Not for pwBPD. Not for me. Not for anyone. Just doing that - especially with some of the more intense, unpleasant things I've felt when triggered - seemed to rob them of at least some of their previous power to elicit a reaction the next time it happened.

I can't really tell, but it also sounds like you're maybe feeling a little frustrated simply because you're still being triggered after all this time and all the work you've done. Despite everything you've learned, know, put into practice, and do differently every time it happens with better effect now. At the sheer amount of time you've invested (and, if you're like me, are still investing!) in getting to a point where you aren't actually triggered by any of that stuff anymore, or any other kind of stuff either, for that matter.

I know I certainly feel that way at times. One of the things that has helped me deal with that feeling is recognizing and eliminating the "should" it implies it's hiding - i.e. "after all the time that's passed, and everything I've learned/put into practice, I really shouldn't be triggered so often by stuff like this." I sit back now and intentionally (sometimes even out loud!) change that to "I really wish I weren't still triggered by stuff like this." A lot more realistic, supportive, understanding, accepting, compassionate, and validating of who/what I actually am as a person. Much more effective at relieving my frustration because I've found it's much, much, much easier to let go of a wish than a should.

Gives me a lot more time to appreciate and enjoy the life I'm actually living now ... . as well, of course, to dream about that tiny house with the big pool and porch overlooking the ocean where I'm going to retire with my French bulldog someday.

Sounds like you're actually doing pretty great, WTK. Just keep being patient and gentle with yourself, and coming here for that when you find you can't or just aren't as good at it as you'd like to be. One step at a time. You're worth it.

[Want2know]

One of the things that has helped me deal with that feeling is recognizing and eliminating the "should" it implies it's hiding - i.e. "after all the time that's passed, and everything I've learned/put into practice, I really shouldn't be triggered so often by stuff like this." I sit back now and intentionally (sometimes even out loud!) change that to "I really wish I weren't still triggered by stuff like this." A lot more realistic, supportive, understanding, accepting, compassionate, and validating of who/what I actually am as a person. Much more effective at relieving my frustration because I've found it's much, much, much easier to let go of a wish than a should.

Thanks, Talithacumi. 

The recent therapist that I have being seeing on and off will stop me when I use 'should' and asks 'what is it you want?'.  When I answer the question what I want, it leads me to the next step of defining what is realistic, which seems to lead me down some paths I may have not considered, otherwise.  It has been a very helpful tool.

You are right, there is something about me feeling like with all I have been working on that I still trigger on stuff that I think I should be over by now - I want to be done with - I wish didn't happen.     The awareness and self-soothing helps me see what it is, however, it doesn't stop the feeling when it initially occurs.  Still working on it... .

[myself]

there is something about me feeling like with all I have been working on that I still trigger on stuff that I think I should be over by now - I want to be done with - I wish didn't happen.     The awareness and self-soothing helps me see what it is, however, it doesn't stop the feeling when it initially occurs.  Still working on it... .

The image I got while reading this was how animals have stones in their systems to help them digest. To process. Our triggers remain to help shine a light on what we still need to work on. Gradually, they become not as powerful/ fade to a minimum as we learn to cope. As we take in the nourishment of the situation and get rid of the rest. Perhaps we seek out and ingest these stones (challenging relationships, etc.) to better ourselves. Feeling it beneath the surface, acknowledging it's a constant in our lives.

[charred]

I met, fell for my pwBPD and got dumped in my twenties... then spent years pining and wishing I had her back, thinking if only my dream girl were with me everything would be different. Then after over 20 yrs, I got her back and it was the worst experience of my life. I withdrew from a lot of things for many years... for all the wrong reasons.

No one is fixing us or making us happy, we have to choose to do it ourselves. Looking back, stress has been what caused me to stop doing things, to worry, to put off facing life and living it. Mindfulness helped me to experience stress-free living enough to realize, that is mostly what the issue was... worrying, procrastinating, ruminating... it all started with things that stressed me out. My pwBPD reset all my stress circuits in a horrible way, had EMDR/PTSD counseling, and like I said, mindfulness helped me to live stress-free for a while.

Every day we can choose to live in the moment or be depressed about the past or worried about the future. We need to pay bills, and work a bit, but most the time we could be enjoying now and seeing what life brings, rather than worrying and regretting mistakes and relationships.

I think the Buddhist were on to something.

[Tolou]

Want 2 know

thanks for your response.

Charred

"Every day we can choose to live in the moment or be depressed about the past or worried about the future. We need to pay bills, and work a bit, but most the time we could be enjoying now and seeing what life brings, rather than worrying and regretting mistakes and relationships."

Well said!

[WalrusGumboot]

I'm 52 now. My 50th birthday, I was in the middle of my divorce. What should have been an important milestone in my life was just another day I'd like to forget. But 50 is only a number.

Sometimes I get somber when I think about the wasted 23 years with my ex, sometimes I get mad. Most of the time, I just accept it for what it was.

I have a new women in my life. She isn't perfect (like I), but perfect for me. Her divorce from her exBPDw was only a few months apart from mine.

I'm trying to live like I will live another 52 years. Exercising regularly, eating good, studying to develop new career skills. We also plan a "fun trip" every few months. Nothing exotic, but just to get out and smell the roses and enjoy each others company.

My life has gotten simple and I life it that way.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Walrus, Those are inspiring words, so thanks!  Last year I went through a divorce from my BPDxW after 16 years of marriage (we separated after 13 years).  So I understand where you're coming from and can relate to your experience.  I enjoy going home after work without the expectation of drama and heated confrontations.  I relish the peace and even find boring evenings a nice change from my previously turbulent situation.  I have a lot of rebuilding to do to get back on my feet, but I welcome this new journey.  LuckyJim

[Want2know]

I enjoy going home after work without the expectation of drama and heated confrontations.  I relish the peace and even find boring evenings a nice change from my previously turbulent situation.  I have a lot of rebuilding to do to get back on my feet, but I welcome this new journey.

I feel the same way, most of the time.  Coming home to peace and my cats. 

I, too, welcome this new journey even though there is still a lot for me to work on.  I certainly don't want to go back to where I was in those relationships, or even prior.  I see some people say on the boards that they were fine before they met their ex's.  I find that hard to believe.  I wasn't fine.

I had to admit recently that I have one issue that is getting in my way.  Drinking.  I come home to the peace, yes, but then the dark sets in.  So, I have a few drinks to numb the dark and go to sleep.  To avoid the thoughts and feelings that seep into my brain.

At first, I wasn't drinking every night, but then it became a habit.  One that has caused me some grief.  I finally went to a SMART meeting last week to explore why I drink and decide what to do next.  After some thought, I do not think I'm an alcoholic, but I know I have a problem.  The fact that the drinking exacerbates my feelings when I'm triggered, and creates thoughts that are perhaps not truthful.  That's a problem, as it effects my behavior.

This past weekend I saw a quote on facebook that said: "Maybe the greatest tragedy isn't that we don't ever find the light, but that we don't ever learn to walk in the dark."  When I tried to find who wrote that quote, it lead me to a woman who was a minister for many years, and had left the church in a crisis of faith.  She wrote a few books, one titled "Learning to Walk in the Dark".  It lead me to a video where she further explained this concept.

Her thought is that we have this tendency to associate all that is good with lightness and all that is evil and dangerous with darkness.  She further explains that through darkness we find courage, we understand the world in new ways. Often, it is while we are in the dark that we grow the most.  That hit home for me.

I don't want to avoid the dark anymore... . I just need to learn how to walk in it with grace and dignity so that when I'm sitting on my porch 20 years from now, I can truly enjoy the sunset that leads me into the dark - to welcome it, feel safe and calm.

[Cumulus]

Hi WTK, your post made me stop and plan about where I want to go and where I want to be. Here is what I came up with:

- to learn to think for myself, if something feels off recognize it and call it out

-  to forgive, to forgive each person in my life I feel has hurt me and to forgive myself for not seeing, not doing, not acting.

- to let revenge go, to not only not wish harm to another but to wish them well in their life

- to let my actions match my thoughts, to be true to myself, not someone else's idea of what I should be or do

- to be able to feel empathy for others without trying to fix their situation or interfere in their life

- to allow myself privacy

And of course... . the porch with the water view. And, no bugs please!

I too was drinking too much for awhile. I'd get home from work, have a glass of wine and feel like that was good for me. Then it got to be two, and when I found myself filling it up one more time I knew I was heading to an unhealthy place so just had to stop. It wasn't loneliness, I have no problem living alone, which is at least as much concern to me as the opposite. It was the horrible cold dark hole that I was in and was trying to ignore. It wasn't depression, just a hard place. It is funny, this has been on my mind the last while, yesterday a friend stopped and spoke to me about her dealings with this issue (very uncharacteristic), this morning someone at work started talking to me about their struggles with this issue (again unsolicited and uncharacteristic,) and then I read your last post about the issue of darkness. Really felt like it was time to sit up and pay attention  

I really felt at the beginning of all this, now three years, that it was important to spend time in the darkness. To feel my way through that. Aren't the blind supposed to have developed their other senses more acutely? It felt like that was what I needed to do, and I did. What I didn't realize is that once out I would need to return periodically. True, the time spent there is less intense and less frequent but I guess I was surprised that I would have to return.

Thanks for the book suggestion. I have all ready ordered it. Cumulus.

[DreamGirl]

I took a class once for my volunteer work and the lesson was mainly about how hard it is for a person to change their behavior. To change habits. It was an effort to build empathy/compassion/understanding with the clients we would be working with who struggled in many different facets (domestic violence, substance abuse, etc).

We were given a task to set one very small goal that we wanted to change in our life... . and do it for the following six weeks.

I decided that I would try and get up 30 minutes earlier.  I wanted to get up earlier, I even listed the positive effects - it would help me feel less rushed, allow me to spend time with my children, not be late, made me feel good, etc. So for the first week, in my effort to "change"... . this goal was achieved. Painfully. Then after that first week of reaping the benefits of my thirty minutes? I hit the snooze button seven times. After so many years, I came to the conclusion that I just don't like to get up early even after I knew how it could/would benefit my life.

I learned in this task that to make any positive changes takes a lot of effort and to break patterns takes a real willingness to change. It's really hard, even when you know it's going to be "better". (Or in my case, you accept things as they are and that you don't really care that the early bird gets the worm.)

I get the sense that you don't like your status quo, at least not completely. You want to effect change so I hope patience is a virtue that you can acquire in your journey.

The fact that the drinking exacerbates my feelings when I'm triggered, and creates thoughts that are perhaps not truthful.  That's a problem, as it effects my behavior.

This is a really honest observation. I've also certainly had to apologize for words I've said and actions I've taken that had I not sipped that last glass of wine would have been better filtered. It's so brave to face this and even more admirable to admit it.

Like cumulus, I also have recently been thinking and talking about this darkness. I have a friend who also posted a blog about this darkness that every human on the planet experiences. She named hers "loneliness". She talked about the depths she went to cope with that loneliness, sacrificing her morals and values just to feel it a little less. My darkest, most vulnerable truth that I've shared on this site was admitting that this same "darkness" is probably what lead me to ultimately getting pregnant at the age of 17. I wanted so badly to feel connected to another human being who would love me back. It was an immature, naïve coping mechanism to the family who just wasn't equipped very well in providing that kind of love.  

W2K, I don't know if yours is loneliness, or sadness, or that breed of shame that some of us know so well. We all have these demons and I agree with the author you mention who thinks that our fear of those demons is what drives us to do the things we do. Cope the way we do.

It's hard not to be afraid and it's really hard to change, it takes time. It takes patience. I also hope that your support in real life includes yourself and that you continue holding yourself to a standard that you deserve, and surrounding yourself by others who will do the same.

~DG

[Cumulus]

Hi again W2K, have read about a fourth of the book. I might disagree with some of the things she says but there are some interesting ideas. So, got me wondering what is in my dark place. I said above that it isn't loneliness or depression, so tried to name what I feel when I am there. The closest I can come is confusion, self recrimination, anxiety and emotional pain. Do you mind me asking what would you call yours? 

Dreamgirl, same question, do you mind me asking what is yours? You mentioned shame, is that what is there for you?

[Want2know]

So, got me wondering what is in my dark place. I said above that it isn't loneliness or depression, so tried to name what I feel when I am there. The closest I can come is confusion, self recrimination, anxiety and emotional pain. Do you mind me asking what would you call yours? 

Good question.

I was just thinking about this on my break (I'm at work), and thinking what is it that makes me want to shut down when I get home from work each day.  Beyond that, what is it that I dread, in general, and want to avoid? 

Feeling like my life is meaningless.  Living a non-creative life.  Catering to the norm.  Those are a few things that come to mind.

I happened to see the band this past weekend that was the Irish band that played in the movie Titantic in the scene where Rose and Jack are dancing wildly in 3rd class.  I found that scene on Youtube, and it had snipets of what lead up to them dancing.

As I was watching it I felt a little like Rose - feeling like I cater to the norm a bit too much.  When she took the risk and went with Jack, she still had some issue letting loose, and of course, she pounds down a beer and starts dancing, and winds up having sex in the back of a car afterwards.  She didn't feel she was really 'living', and went to the extreme.

That's my problem.  If I feel stifled, sometimes I go to the extreme.  Probably some of what drew me into my ex - he certainly was extreme, at times.

Just some initial thoughts - good prompt, Cumulus.  Btw, you have one up on me regarding reading her book.  I just watched the video of her speaking about the book before it was published, but could tell she was still grappling with it all.  I can't imagine dedicating your life to preaching Christianity and then rejecting it.  What a feeling of being lost, I would imagine.

[Cumulus]

Feeling like my life is meaningless.  Living a non-creative life.  Catering to the norm.  Those are a few things that come to mind.



Indeed, questions that demand answers in the dark place. I agree with the author in the book that the dark place is where many of life's questions and issues get resolved. But it is a scary place. Even though we might know that is where growth and understanding happen I think most would far rather stay in the light and happiness. Hence, the alcohol. It helps keep the door closed to that space. Unfortunately it doesn't make what is behind the door go away.

I frequently wonder about the courage of many who post on this site. We are opening that place and going in and searching. What makes us different from the many others who keep that door firmly shut. Why did I keep that door shut for so many years and what was it that finally made me go looking?  

So what does give your life meaning? I have answered that question for myself. It is connections I make to others. Real connections with real conversations. What will make you feel creative? How do we find that creative side to us? Is it wrong to cater to the norm? To live a common life? I know I continue to deal with this issue. If I can't do something spectacularly why do it at all?  

Just some thoughts W2K. Thanks again for this article. Has helped me to think through these things. Cumulus n

[Want2know]

I frequently wonder about the courage of many who post on this site. We are opening that place and going in and searching. What makes us different from the many others who keep that door firmly shut. Why did I keep that door shut for so many years and what was it that finally made me go looking?  

Denial can make some keep that door shut.  I think that's partly why I did.  Perspective also can be a factor - for example, perhaps some don't see some of the things we feel are issues as issues, but more of challenges that are not overwhelming.  Kind of a radical acceptance of self and that struggles are all a part of being human.

I went to another SMART meeting last night.  There are some folks in there who have a lot more to overcome than I do.  So, for them, the 'smallest' of things trigger them - so much darkness.  For me, some of their struggles I don't see as huge obstacles, as they do. 

One guy who had beaten crack/cocaine/alcohol/sex addictions and is now working on quitting smoking.  He was telling stories of his upbringing, about how his father beat him, his brother, and his mother on a regular basis.  I could imagine his darkness is more vast than mine.

So what does give your life meaning? I have answered that question for myself. It is connections I make to others. Real connections with real conversations. What will make you feel creative? How do we find that creative side to us? Is it wrong to cater to the norm? To live a common life? I know I continue to deal with this issue. If I can't do something spectacularly why do it at all?  

I was thinking about this after typing out my response yesterday.  About being stifled, and how that is all in how I look at life.  It's my own doing.  Regardless of the worlds influences, I still have choices about how to react to it.  I'm stifling myself.

One thing that was discussed in the meeting last night was about how challenging your beliefs as a way to change the behavior you no longer want to do.  So, if I believe that I am being stifled, what is the thinking that goes into that?  Is it true? 

Thoughts are just thoughts.  Feelings are not facts.  We hear these things a lot here. 

As for what gives my life meaning, when is it I feel creative, and how do I live a life that is my own without feeling pressured by the norm?  Those are big questions.  A simple example that I thought of was that I love to sing and paint.  Joining a signing group would be cool.  I have painted in the past, and have a great easel that is being shipped to me in the next few weeks.  One of those things is about making connections (which I agree is important) and the other is for personal fulfillment.

Feeling pressured, or less of a person if I'm not fitting some norm, well, I find myself questioning what is the norm.  A big one for me is how women are portrayed in the U.S.  Those things are very triggering to me.  I saw a billboard on the highway that is a photo of a woman in a bikini looking out from her balcony at the ocean.  It was an ad for a plastic surgery company, specifically liposuction.  The phrase underneath the photo said 'cellulaze', as if you could easily acquire a perfect body without doing any work.  Oh, that makes me mad every time I drive by it for a number of reasons.  However much I can discount that ad in my head, it's still a common theme.  Do I continue to drink because of that ad continues to propagate an unrealistic norm?  I don't know, but it sure doesn't help.   

[DreamGirl]

Is your fear of being ordinary? That's the narcissist's core wound/fear. 

Dreamgirl, same question, do you mind me asking what is yours? You mentioned shame, is that what is there for you?

I thought about this question all night if I had to give it a name and I think I found my answer. It's the moments when I feel like I'm not "enough"... . which effects my efforts as a mother, as a wife, as an employee, as a friend, as a daughter, as a person.

It's my shame generator. It's my inner critic. It's my unwavering fear of failure.

What might it look like if I could accept everything as it is? Embrace my self professed shortcomings as they are?

That's my dark place. My struggling self worth.   

Feeling pressured, or less of a person if I'm not fitting some norm, well, I find myself questioning what is the norm.  A big one for me is how women are portrayed in the U.S.  Those things are very triggering to me.  I saw a billboard on the highway that is a photo of a woman in a bikini looking out from her balcony at the ocean.  It was an ad for a plastic surgery company, specifically liposuction.  The phrase underneath the photo said 'cellulaze', as if you could easily acquire a perfect body without doing any work.  Oh, that makes me mad every time I drive by it for a number of reasons.  However much I can discount that ad in my head, it's still a common theme.  Do I continue to drink because of that ad continues to propagate an unrealistic norm?  I don't know, but it sure doesn't help.

If you go back to the original issue you proposed in this thread - about sharing your porch - do you think that this is part of it?

You're OK with how you look and don't feel the need to change anything about yourself to be attractive.

I don't know that this isn't a common theme for some of us in the older generation who aren't hung up on looks like the younger generation tends to be. I have a friend who is successful in life both in her career and family, she is an MD for a non-profit organization, strong in her faith and just got married 5 years ago with two beautiful babies. She also doesn't wear a smidge of makeup and her favorite accessory is her beloved hiking boots. She is one of the prettiest women I know ~ both inside and out. I also have an equally as successful in life friend who puts lipstick on at several intervals during the day, owns probably a half a million dollars worth of shoes... . and is as equally beautiful on the inside as my other friend. Beauty meet eye of the beholder. 

I bring all this up because it obviously bothersome to you, being that it's something that you've been triggered by before. I wonder if you think that men expect this? Because of society? Did something cause this for you?

I do think you're right about our own values in this. I think that if we feel OK about ourselves and the way we look - that's what is going to matter and be attractive to others. If someone needs to get laser treatment for cellulite to boost their self esteem, I think that's OK too. As my Life Coach would say (though) when it comes to weight gain, until you address what caused you to over-eat - no amount of plastic/bypass surgery will help fix that. As someone who struggles with food addictions, I can say that she's pretty spot on - I don't have to work very hard when the underlying issues are being addressed.

We really are such a society of first world problems aren't we? 

[seeking balance]

This thread has taken some interesting turns - not sure when or if I wanted to join in, but was compelled with the last few posts to share where I am and such.

Avoiding pain and hurt and disappointment is where I think a lot of us try to be - but (I hate to say this) I do think the Narcissistic injury is very, very real in a lot of us here and I think it is that same injury that leads us to "figure" it out instead of letting go and moving on... . but there is a balance to it all - healthy balance.

Being "enough" is my core stuff too - yet on the flip side, I do have a pretty high opinion of what I am capable of - so not living up to it at times feels really hard and pushes the "not enough" button... . the circle repeats.  Perfection, no doubt about it for me - I use it to avoid pain and shame... . not because I necessarily am a high achiever.

We really are such a society of first world problems aren't we? 

Yeah, it is true and sounds petty - but does it make it less real?  I am kinda tired of down-playing my "problems" as not legitimate hurts yet being grateful too - I don't know how to balance it.

I have no idea if I am making any sense or on topic on this thread 

[DreamGirl]

Avoiding pain and hurt and disappointment is where I think a lot of us try to be - but (I hate to say this) I do think the Narcissistic injury is very, very real in a lot of us here and I think it is that same injury that leads us to "figure" it out instead of letting go and moving on... . but there is a balance to it all - healthy balance.

That is such a valid statement.

Being "enough" is my core stuff too - yet on the flip side, I do have a pretty high opinion of what I am capable of - so not living up to it at times feels really hard and pushes the "not enough" button... . the circle repeats.  Perfection, no doubt about it for me - I use it to avoid pain and shame... . not because I necessarily am a high achiever.

My need to control is probably a lot like your perfection - it makes it really hard to just let things be as they are.

Yeah, it is true and sounds petty - but does it make it less real?  I am kinda tired of down-playing my "problems" as not legitimate hurts yet being grateful too - I don't know how to balance it.

Are you seeking balance?  

I also think that all of our problems are "real" ~ the same way Want2Know shouldn't minimize her darkness because the other guy's situation in her meeting was "worse". Perhaps the same way that my girlfriend complaining about having to sit in Coach because First Class was full was really traumatic for her.

They are "our" life's issues and "our" coping skills. It's just difficult to focus on good when our spirits become depleted... . and this stuff is depleting. So for instance, when I'm complaining about over-eating to soothe my wounds, I try to keep it in perspective.   

[seeking balance]

It's just difficult to focus on good when our spirits become depleted... . and this stuff is depleting. So for instance, when I'm complaining about over-eating to soothe my wounds, I try to keep it in perspective.   

I am noticing that I feel guilty when I am complaining too much and I am finding myself more and more complaining lately - that dreaded "should" feel grateful.

So, I can be grateful and frustrated at the same time?  But why the guilt?  Yeah, I am seeking some balance on this issue right about now ... . sorry if I have gotten off topic w2k or hijacking... . you hit a button with me here.

[Want2know]

No, worries... . I was typing and hit preview and there were 2 more posts.  Both you ladies are very welcome to hijack my thread. 

This thread has taken some interesting turns

Yes, it has.  I've had to go back and read my original post a few times now to see what it started with. 

What might it look like if I could accept everything as it is? Embrace my self professed shortcomings as they are?

Yes, wouldn't that be lovely?  I feel I do accept myself as is sometimes, and then there are those nagging moments, as I was alluding to in my original post, that throw me off that I feel I need to figure out.

One thing we discussed in our meeting yesterday was not over-analyzing a situation.  It can be debilitating, and one of the reasons I drink - to stop my mind from thinking.  It's like when you are going along your merry way and suddenly your computer freezes up and the spinning beach ball of death just keeps swirling around and around.  I just want to numb those moments and make them stop.

Yes, there is meditation, there is my yoga, swimming, other more healthy distractions - but that's just it, it's a distraction and not a solution.  Drinking is a quick and easy distraction, however, as was highlighted in my first meeting last week, there is a great cost to doing it (they actually had me do a cost benefit analysis on drinking in front of everyone).

Another thing mentioned yesterday was that we are human beings and not meant to be solved.  So, I guess it may just be about getting to a place where I can let it all go and move on, as you mention SB.

I am going to continue to go to those meetings on a weekly basis.  I think that their program will help me to stop over analyzing and instead address the behavior.  They base their program in CBT, which was suggested to me by a friend.

And now for something completely different, so that I stop over-analyzing it all, here is a very pertinent TED Talk that you must see - it's only about 4 minutes - www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_6SfMZxoLc#t=11

[seeking balance]

One thing we discussed in our meeting yesterday was not over-analyzing a situation.  It can be debilitating, and one of the reasons I drink - to stop my mind from thinking.  It's like when you are going along your merry way and suddenly your computer freezes up and the spinning beach ball of death just keeps swirling around and around.  I just want to numb those moments and make them stop.

Yes, there is meditation, there is my yoga, swimming, other more healthy distractions - but that's just it, it's a distraction and not a solution.  Drinking is a quick and easy distraction, however, as was highlighted in my first meeting last week, there is a great cost to doing it (they actually had me do a cost benefit analysis on drinking in front of everyone).

My grandmother and my mom both talked about their brain not shutting down - I have come to accept my genes on this to some extent.  My yoga practice is critical for my mind to stop - but it only lasts so long.  Brene' talks about numbing and the wholehearted guideposts - earlier in this thread creative action was mentioned and that is a guidepost... . art & play and such help with this aspect I think.  I think their is a fine line between numbing and healthy coping with radical acceptance... . I am trying to find that line myself.

Another thing mentioned yesterday was that we are human beings and not meant to be solved. 

Something I am realizing is my need to solve is the same positive that allows me to be really good at strategic things in my world too... . kinda like harnessing the good and applying it where it can do a more positive result.  Patterns are easy for me - humans show patterns and I can see them pretty easily even in myself... . letting them go is becoming more of a spiritual thing for me, I need some "extra" help with that 

I think it is cool you are looking into such a big mirror - it had to be scary doing that analysis in front of everyone... . that is putting on your big girl pants... . gulp, it would be hard for me to do that.

[myself]

Another thing mentioned yesterday was that we are human beings and not meant to be solved.

  There is no answer, no "Eureka!" moment where it's all wrapped up.

The drinking, I do it too, and it's a pattern. Can I live without it? Yes, sometimes I do. But it's a choice, and much of it's due I agree to over-thinking. Trying to let loose, too. My youngest daughter is into butterflies, and it's corny but it's true, we're all feeling like we're butterflies but we're not all able to get ourselves out of our cocoons yet, or accepting that we're already out. Who's free?

[heartandwhole]

And now for something completely different, so that I stop over-analyzing it all, here is a very pertinent TED Talk that you must see - it's only about 4 minutes - www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_6SfMZxoLc#t=11

  It's important to smile !  Thanks for that. 

[Want2know]

Something I am realizing is my need to solve is the same positive that allows me to be really good at strategic things in my world too... . kinda like harnessing the good and applying it where it can do a more positive result.  Patterns are easy for me - humans show patterns and I can see them pretty easily even in myself... . letting them go is becoming more of a spiritual thing for me, I need some "extra" help with that 

Someone mentioned to me a long time ago that our strengths are also our weaknesses.  If you think of things you might consider strengths, there is some level of truth to this, which goes along with what you are saying.  It's the same for me, too.  For my job, being analytical has always benefited me.  I've been 'rewarded' for it. 

The drinking, I do it too, and it's a pattern. Can I live without it? Yes, sometimes I do. But it's a choice, and much of it's due I agree to over-thinking. Trying to let loose, too. My youngest daughter is into butterflies, and it's corny but it's true, we're all feeling like we're butterflies but we're not all able to get ourselves out of our cocoons yet, or accepting that we're already out. Who's free?

Letting go of being analytical all the time needs to be a conscious action for me.  I find myself having to step back and say 'just live, stop thinking about it'.  Pushing myself out of that cocoon without the use of alcohol is what I am working towards with a conscious effort of looking at my patterns.  Thinking, feelings, behavior.  Just making that connection has been helpful for me over the last few weeks.  I feel a bit disgusted by my behavior regarding the need for alcohol, which is changing my thinking - big step for me.  When I have had that urge for a drink, for example this week, I got a sick feeling in my stomach about it, which I think is a good thing. 

Another thing mentioned yesterday was that we are human beings and not meant to be solved.

  There is no answer, no "Eureka!" moment where it's all wrapped up.

No, there's not, is there. 

I really do think it goes back to what DreamGirl said, accepting yourself - flaws and all, and not feeling like I need to hide that or mask my insecurities with drinking.  Knowing that I have and am living a meaningful life, not looking to change the world, doing things that inspire me and not being afraid or caring if I'm being judged.

And now for something completely different, so that I stop over-analyzing it all, here is a very pertinent TED Talk that you must see - it's only about 4 minutes - www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_6SfMZxoLc#t=11

  It's important to smile !  Thanks for that. 

Yes!  When I first started watching it, not realizing what was going to happen, I was cringing for the guy on stage.  Could you imagine if that was not all intentional?

[waverider]

I have to stay fit in mind and body so that when my kids have kids I can still chase them around the house being the tickle monster I was to their mum and dad.

Then as they grow older i can dispense great peals of wisdom as is my duty

If I have great life in the meantime then thats a great side effect, in fact that is probably the best way to achieve that goal