Not sure what to do about this situation

[P.F.Change]

Clljhns has a good question--have you considered talking with a therapist on your own? It can help a great deal.

[MusicCity123]

Again thanks everyone,  You are offering some helpful insights.  Clljhns you asked about if my wife misses her son.  She does very badly.  I know she is full of regret.  I remember a number of years ago when something very awful happened that she did,  (she was arrested for verbal abuse against a public official) when the dust finally settled and she realized what she had done, her medical condition, blood pressure etc rose to near stroke- heart attack levels)  she had to spend a few days in the cardiac unit at a local hospital until things got better) so I know she feels bad for the things she has done.

She said the other day she wished she could just drive over to where he lives and give him a hug.

It was the saddest thing to hear.  I wanted to do that too, but the repercussions would have been very bad.

I mentioned things had been pretty good but a couple of things happened these past few days that have left me bewildered and frustrated all over again.

The other day I stopped off at McDonalds to buy a couple of cheeseburgers for our dogs.  Once every 2 weeks I give them a hamburger for a treat.  I normally get them with no ketchup or pickle, just cheese.  My wife wanted a cheeseburger ketchup only.  I accidentally ordered all the burgers ketchup only.  When I got home she pretty much accused me of being incompetent etc.  I'll just do it myself from now on kinda stuff.  Suddenly it was three years ago all over again.  I was stunned.  I shook my head and walked away.  What should have been my response ?  Please tell me.  I keep thinking that by not saying anything she will realize what a hurtful thing she has said and try to do better.  That doesnt work right.?   Then Monday something happened that made me so angry I told her so and it made her sleep in my son's bedroom because she couldnt understand why I would be so angry at this.

It's ok for her to be angry with me, but it is not ok for me to be angry with her. Here is what happened.  We are planning a trip soon.  It is not a pleasure trip but we are looking forward to it.  Money is a little tight so we have to plan very carefully.  I come into work on Monday morning and my boss forwards me an email she sent to him.  She told him not to tell me about it but she asked if I could get an advance on my paycheck because we had to make a trip and there were some financial responsibilities.  There were a bunch of lies about why we needed the money.  My boss asked me if I was aware of this email.  I was not.  I was furious.  She had no right to do this.  I called her at the end of the day and she picked up like there was nothing wrong.    I told her very calmly how hurt I was and furious that she did that behind my back.  She just didnt understand.  I never raised my voice.  I simply said that I was very mad.  (This little stunt could have repercussions because I am in line to become the manager and now I feel like the owner of the company probably feels like if he cant keep his money together how can he manage a company branch?) 

When I got home she was quiet.  I didnt say a word.  SHe then said later on she wished we had never moved etc etc   classic diversion.   I typical me didnt say a thing not wanting to make waves?  How should I handle this one?  This is very serious.  For her to do this behind my back must mean she is not thinking how this could affect me.  YOur thoughts are greatly appreciated

[P.F.Change]

MusicCity123,

It sounds like your wife is feeling sad about not being in contact with your son. I'm sure a hug would help her feel better. He may need to do a lot of work on his end and see that she has done a lot of work on her end before he feels ready to consider that. I always felt my mother's affection was not about making me feel better but making her feel better--I felt used. Often I didn't want to be touched and she would cling to me anyway. I didn't like feeling like a teddy bear.

In regards to wanting to understand your son's perspective, we can't know for sure what he is feeling but we have tried to offer you our own experiences and thoughts based on what we have been through with our parents with BPD. When it comes to your relationship with your wife, though, it would be better to ask those questions on the Staying: Improving a Relationship with a Borderline Partner board. The members there will be better able to help you work on that relationship.

PF

[Louise7777]

MusicCity, you said

"Clljhns you asked about if my wife misses her son.  She does very badly.  I know she is full of regret.  I remember a number of years ago when something very awful happened that she did,  (she was arrested for verbal abuse against a public official) when the dust finally settled and she realized what she had done, her medical condition, blood pressure etc rose to near stroke- heart attack levels)  she had to spend a few days in the cardiac unit at a local hospital until things got better) so I know she feels bad for the things she has done."

I dont want to constantly disagree with you, but it looks like she was feeling bad for being arrested. She realized some consequence happened to HER. I dont think this shows any remorse about her behaviour or regret towards your son, it merely shows she couldnt get her way.

Again, I dont know her or your situation, my thoughts are based on your words and my personal experience, so forgive me if its way off.

As for your questions, I really dont know. I suggest you read books and articles on BPDs, and you´ll find ways to deal with her in healthier ways.

[clljhns]

HI MusicCity123,

Suddenly it was three years ago all over again.  I was stunned.  I shook my head and walked away.  What should have been my response ?  Please tell me.  I keep thinking that by not saying anything she will realize what a hurtful thing she has said and try to do better.  That doesnt work right.?   

I am curious as to what happened three years ago. Are these patterns consistent throughout your relationship? It almost seems as if you put it from the perspective of an acute event that was brought about by some sort of stress. When I read all your posts though, it does seem like she has the patterns, behaviors and thoughts of a pwBPD. I don't know for sure, just based on what you have said.

[quoteShe does very badly.  I know she is full of regret. ][/quote]
How do you know that she is full of regret? Mom's statement that she want to go and hug her son doesn't really ring true as regret. From the perspective of a BPD this is a need they have, and so they wish to fulfill it. I asked if mom had expressed how much she misses her son. My question is, has mom specifically said "I can see how much I hurt him. I want to make things right between us." or "I know what I have done and I can't believe I said and did some of the things I did. I want to talk with him to let him know how sorry I am."

These statements are more about accepting responsibility for the currents problems based on her past behaviors. True statements of regret are not about what the offender can gain from an apology, but what the offender can do to make right what they have done. I know this sounds harsh, but I can tell you that my parents NEVER apologized for the things they did. All I ever heard were excuses, generally centered around the other person being the cause of their behaviors. I'll give you some examples that may ring true for your interactions with mom. My sister who is two years older than me was angry that I decided not to buy a home with her family with the purpose of farming together. I made the decision because I could see the tale-tell signs of her regressing back to some old paranoid and abusive patterns. Rather than deal with the underlying issue, she became angry that she was not getting what she had always dreamed of: a farm. She then began to accuse me of talking about her behind her back saying terrible things about her and then was constantly asking me if I was mad at her. I was living with her and her family at the time with my daughter. She snapped one day and demanded I move out of the house that very minute. She threatened to call the police and have me forcibly removed. She screamed at the top of her lungs at me, cursed me and jumped up and down while doing so. My daughter, who was 23 at the time, began to pack and this snapped me out of my frozen state. Two years passed and I sent her some items that we had accidently packed of hers in our haste. She sent me a letter of apology which said, "I am sorry for the way I told you to leave. I shouldn't have told you that way... . I guess that is something that I will have to live with. My therapist said that you overstayed your welcome." Okay. So, she wasn't sorry that she told me to leave, only for the way in which she told me to leave,  on a moments notice which meant that my daughter and I were displaced into a hotel and had to spend an inordinate amount of money to relocate within three days. Moving truck, hired drivers, cost of hotels, eating expenses while traveling, and the cost of gas to move four states away, with no job and no home to go to.  Her final statement that her therapist said that I overstayed my welcome was a way of her validating her actions. She felt justified in what she did, and therefore, she really wasn't sorry for what she had done.

Long story to illustrate the way a pwBPD thinks. They find ways to justify their actions. I know that it has been suggested that you visit the board on leaving or staying the relationship by P.F. Change, and I whole-heartedly agree that you should do this. I just wanted to help put things in perspective.

I come into work on Monday morning and my boss forwards me an email she sent to him.  She told him not to tell me about it but she asked if I could get an advance on my paycheck because we had to make a trip and there were some financial responsibilities.  There were a bunch of lies about why we needed the money.  My boss asked me if I was aware of this email.  I was not.  I was furious.  She had no right to do this.

No. She didn't have the right to do this. This was a huge encroachment upon the boundary you have between you and your boss. I wonder if she has similar things in the past with you or your sons? I think this is  another clear example of how she sees her needs tantamount to those of everyone else. She contacts your boss, whom she does not have a working relationship with, putting him in a very uncomfortable position. She overrides any need you have for confidentiality and shares some truths and even lies with your boss. Again, she had a need for more money, and didn't think about the consequences to you. I wonder if she had ever made statements to you that she is better at managing your money, household, bills, life in general? I did note that you reported an incident in which she was angry with you about the hamburger situation and she called you incompetent. Is this a recurring theme?

I know I have asked a lot of questions, and this is a long post, but I hope that it helps you to see things in a different light.  I am wondering where you are with seeing a therapist? This can be very helpful in putting things together, like a puzzle, so that it makes more sense for you.

I wish you and your family much peace 

[isshebpd]

MusicCity123,

Are either of your sons aware that your wife probably has BPD? Do they understand what it is?

I'm a son of a uBPD mother and an enabling father. I hope your sons both have loving, supportive people to help them through their difficult journeys.

[MusicCity123]

Thanks all for posting your thoughts.  You asked if my sons were aware of their mother having BPD.  It was actually my youngest son who pretty much saw it and told me about it.  He did a lot of research and based upon the way she was acting he pretty much nailed it.  I guess the thing I am struggling with the most right now is not having any contact with my son.  It's killing me.  I feel like he has died.  We were so close not long ago.  I enjoy being a father to him and I feel guilty and sad that things have turned out this way.  I dont even know what he is thinking anymore.  When he made up that fake facebook profile so he could befriend his mom and then call her a bunch of names like Nazi and ___, I wasnt angry at him, I was just hurt and sad.  I really know now that it would take a miracle for any reconciliation to take place between he and his mother.  I just hope that It is not too late for my relationship with him.  For those children of BPD parents who are reading this,  how have you dealt with the other parent?  How do you feel about them ?  I am really trying to understand this.  I'm trying to be a decent human being here.  Am I just insane to think that things could change?  Is it wrong to love everyone in your family?  I am not trying to be some super-hero self-righteous figure here.  I want to help those I love but honestly do not know how to do it.  Thanks

[clljhns]

 Hi MusicCity123,

For those children of BPD parents who are reading this,  how have you dealt with the other parent?  How do you feel about them ?  I am really trying to understand this.

Well, this is a good question. I think it will be difficult for anyone to answer this, as we all have very different nonBPD parents. I wonder if you have given any thoughts to the wonderful suggestions that have been given here.

It sounds to me like you have a lot of turmoil over staying with mom, and trying to honor your son. Add to this, one son has decided to stay in contact given the current situation. I think it would be a good time to contact a therapist and begin the process of understanding how BPD has affected your sons and you. I also am wondering if you feel threatened by the outcome of therapy? Do you have any expectations/concerns around therapy? Is there something getting in the way of seeing a therapist? (Stigma, money, mom, etc.)

Is it wrong to love everyone in your family?

Absolutely not! I wonder what may be prompting this question. Is there a concern that if you love your son, this means you must divorce mom? Does this mean that if you love mom, you cannot have a relationship with your son? I am curious about your thoughts on this. You might want to check out the signs of a healthy relationship to help you understand what it means to love those who do not have the same definition of love as we do. You can find the link for this under resources on this board.

If seeing a therapist is a concern, know that the therapist doesn't tell you what you should do. A therapist is there as a sounding-board and will guide you through the process of you coming to conclusions that will ultimately lead you to make decisions about the situation.

So, at the risk of sounding like a broken record, have you considered seeing a therapist? I can only say positive things about my experience with my therapist, and so feel comfortable in suggesting that you explore this.

I wish you much peace and healing for the family.