Advise please. UBPDh financially dependent 4eva

[Soccerchic]

I need advise desperately.  My uBPDh doesn't have a career and seems unable to earn wages that would actually pay for all his expenses as well as his children. He works hard at a low low paying hourly job. Despite my encouragement to go to school, he says he will and never follows through leaving me to carry the financial burden. Every couple of months he changes his mind what he will be when he grows up.  However, it's usually some quick unrealistic fix or a new career identity. The man is in his early 40's and not a spring chicken. He now has an injury preventing him to follow through on a physical job. I feel soo irritated.  I fantasize about being with a man who can help me pay our bills. He doesn't over spend but just can't settle on a permanent identity. In the mean time, he is really critical of the stupidest things around the house or if anyone spills anything.  He also brought home a Rottweiler to add to our animal menagerie of 3 small terriers.  He had been depressed and suicidal and I feel burdened and trapped. When I've asked him for space in the past his solution is to live in his car. He doesn't think how that would effect our kids and says he will move and leave me everything.  Oh. Thank you so much for years of strife and huge bills as well as a mortgage with no equity.  How can I be uncodependent (I don't know if that's a word). I know that there are men who work and the wife doesn't contribute as much. Am I being sexist?  Is it unrealistic to have a husband who can go on vacation with out

Sabotaging it or someone who can show empathy when the kids talk. Or how about someone who has their own identity and friends. He acts so weird when my kids have friends over pouting if he can't use the tv when he would like do to a sleep over or accusing my best friend as being latent bisexual even though she is happily married (jealousy anyone?).  First of all I don't care what her sexuality is. She would be my best friend no matter what but she is happily married to her husband. 

[tbddbt]

I'm so sorry you're in such a difficult situation. I've heard that financial strain is the number one reason couples get divorced.  I'm sure that at least some of his behavior and depression is due to the money issues. When your financial situation was better (if it ever was), were things a lot better between you two?  Is there a way you can cut expenses or downsize?  If it's clear that he won't follow through with education and his chances for a higher paying job are unrealistic, could you find a way to make more money?  Could you move to a state with a lower cost of living?  Due to natural gas exploration, there is currently an economic boom in many Midwestern states. They need workers, skilled or unskilled, and the pay is much better than most anywhere else. Is there a way your husband can turn his work skills into a small business?  Could you start your own business?  If things were good before the strain, and you still love him it's possible to make it work if you're willing to go through some sacrifices. Otherwise, the stress and resentment could break even the strongest of marriages.

[Soccerchic]

I have a really good career and make a good living.  We used to be really broke until I worked my butt off and we were blessed. I just brings nothing to the marriage. Pone minute I care about him and the next I am feel hopeless.  He was emotionally abusive and absent due to the push pull sabatogy personality.  I wonder why I am putting my kids through this.  Your right that this strain would challenge any marriage. I feel like its a lot with his mental issue to. My daughter says she hates him.  She used to try to talk to him to share how his emotional mood swings effected her.  She has given up and now I'm stuck in the middle.  I am soo miserable but feeling guilty about wanting to leave. 

[OutOfEgypt]

Hi Soccerchic,

Not easy.  In some ways that sounds a lot like my ex wife.  She could not follow through on *anything*.  She spent so much money and energy on so many different avenues and paths, and never followed through on any of them -and she always had an excuse for why... .it was my fault, or I stressed her out, or I got "too jealous", or I didn't help her (i.e. do it all for her and then hand it to her), or some kind of physical or emotional ailment that made it so she had to stay in bed forever.

My ex would do pretty much what you describe.  Never follow through, yet would do impulsive and almost childish things (and probably designed to get everybody to forget about what a neglectful jerk she's being) like bring a new dog home.  

To be "uncodependent" means that your values and your focus on the health of yourself (and I would say your children, as well) takes precedence over the outcome of the relationship.  It means you stop trying to hold all of this together and you let it fall.  Some of it will fall upon you -that was/is the case with me.  I pay child support and spousal support even though I wind up having the kids for long periods of time (and I'm happy about that).  I can barely make ends meet once unforseen expenses and repairs come up.  Meanwhile, she's getting a new truck, and a new puppy, and living it up.

It means you let him live in his car, if that's what he wants to do.  But maybe you tell him he needs to do it somewhere else (because you know he'll be partly doing it to gain sympathy and look like a victim in front of your kids).  He doesn't have to live in his car.  He's a grown man.  It may be hard.  He'll whine and complain, but he's an adult and eventually all adults have to face the harsh reality that other people aren't going to carry them around like little babies.  And hopefully they finally stand and learn to walk on their own.

Do you have a T you work with?  If so, what does he/she say?  If you don't have one, I would recommend finding one who can help you plan an exit strategy -if not from the marriage then at least from the situation.  Because here's what I know for a fact:  Your husband isn't going to hand your life back to you.  He's going to keep doing what he's doine.  The only one who can take your life back is you.  You are worth making a priority of your own health and well-being.  It beats being an enabler to a person who is going to just continue to suck the life out of you and your family.

I'm sure you fantasize about "men out there" who aren't like that.  And you are right.  There are lots of men who can hold their own and have their own identity and life.  But don't let that beat you up.  This is your life, and right now you need your focus on that so that you can make a plan of action for yourself and your kids to get out of what sounds like a very unhealthy situation.  Picture it like he's an alcoholic.  The more you keep cleaning up his vomit in the morning, dealing with his all-night binges, and trying to do damage-control for him in front of your kids, the longer it will stay like it is.

That is actually where the term "codependent" came from, from what I gather.  It was a term for s/o's of alcoholics.  The alcoholic is the "dependent", and the person in the relationship who basically becomes the pack-mule for all the pain, drama, and draining crap is the "co-dependent" because, in effect, the co-dependent helps carry it, helps reinforce the destructive patterns by simply staying in the status quo.

So, take some time to think about what you want -not necessarily dreams of a prince or white knight, but at least what you want your life and your home situation to look like.

And as I'm sure you know, you can't really listen to what comes out of his mouth.  He has a vested interest in keeping things the way that they are, so once you stop carrying his load he will probably accuse you of not caring, being mean, being hateful.  He may threaten to hurt himself (if he does, then maybe you call the police or maybe you see about having him committed to an inpatient facility for a while).  He may play victim.  He will do LOTS of things to try to keep the status quo.  Stay the course.  It will be hard and it will probably get worse before it gets better.

You don't have to feel guilty about wanting to leave this situation.  Who is the one who ought to feel guilty?  Him, not you.  You aren't responsible for him, or is he a child?  Maybe you've bought into the idea that he's a victim too?  I know how it goes.  You feel guilty for abandoning him in his little pit.  But you know what?  If you stay there with him, he'll never leave -and neither will you or your family.  But if you leave the pit, and he realizes he is alone in it, he might start finally getting sick of the stench.  He might actually decide to get up and start climbing out of the pit, too.  It won't happen any other way.

FOG -that fear, that obligation, that guilt.  That's how he has you stuck.  But you have to step back and see it all for what it is.  It's all a game to keep you stuck by his side, stuck in the pit with him.  It will take you finally saying, "I am sad that you choose to live in your pit, but I can't stay there anymore.  I'm sorry, but I have to do what is right and what is best.  I hope you eventually leave this pit, too."

[Soccerchic]

Thank you so much Out if Egypt.  I'm reading this first thing in the morning following a sleepless night when my daughter expressed how much she hated him and him respond like a defensive child. He has no insight no matter how much I think he does when he promises to change. I'm scared to not have another adult to help but he is nothing but inconsistent.   I'm so desperate for things to change. I feel like such an idiot. I had started pulling away and kicked him out of my bed. Of course he came back, I slept with him, and he returned back to his moody lack of responsibility self.  I'm soo stupid.  I need to start therapy.  I used to laugh a lot and hang out with friends.  That's all changed.  I need to find myself. Your words give me some hope.  His new injury adds even more guilt to moving on.  What type of action should I see before my guard returns to the down position?

[OutOfEgypt]

I'm sorry you are going through this.

What kind of action should you see?  :)o you mean from him?  That's tough.  BPD is a serious thing... .it can take years of consistent effort and therapy to see change.  That's one thing I wished I had waited for during my final recycle with my ex.  She actually began seeing a therapist after the divorce.  But I was so elated at the chance that I took her back and quickly she took over everything... .and though I allowed it, it's like it happened so fast and my guard was down.

The problem is that even though I knew that it could take years for her to improve with hard work, and even then the impulses to act that way don't simply go away, I allowed myself to get swept back in.  :)eep down, I knew that firm boundaries and insisting on her living on her own until she gets better and things like that would not last.  I knew she would never be able to go without sex or without her manipulations "working."  She would last a month, if that, before she started trolling for someone else.  So, I buckled to just have the chance of having her.  And it went the same way all over again.

I really think the answer is that with people with BPD you can NEVER let your guard down, not completely.  You always need to keep an eye on things.  From what I understand, "recovered" BPD's have the tendency still present with them.  They just learn to manage it.  But really, in any relationship you need to be clear (with yourself, first!) about your own values and limits.  That's just a part of any healthy relationship.

All relationships have up and downs, but the hallmark of a healthy relationship is mutual care, respect, and trust.  That should be the norm, not the exception.  It should be okay for you to not like carrying all the load, because in a healthy relationship the other person wouldn't want to do that to you.  They would at least be willing to take an honest look at how they might be damaging things.  With a BPD, in my experience, it's just lip-service if anything at all.  

By the way, you aren't stupid.  A lot of this is simply trying to find a way to survive and "make it work" with the person that you love, to keep your family together.  I know exactly how that feels.  The problem is that you are literally the only one doing that.  He's not.  And, from experience, it's like the more you do the less they feel they need to.  They are looking for a crutch, and that's you.

[OutOfEgypt]

Finding yourself is hard anyway.  It is even harder when you live with someone who's every action demands you to be completely wrapped up in dealing with them and their drama.  Their entire dynamic screams "focus on me, me, me!"

I remember more than once sitting on the front porch and saying to myself, "I don't even know who I am anymore."  Everything about me that made me unique.  All my talents and passions.  They were all dead and consumed.  Everything wrapped around her.  Of course, she saw this and pointed out that I'm a loser and am "too focused" on her -while owning NOTHING of how and why that might be!  Gee-whiz!

But in a sense, she was right.  The choice to give up everything about ourselves that makes us who we are in order to hold onto a sinking-ship of a relationship is ours.  Nobody is making us do it.  I understand it, but there has to be a line in the sand somewhere or else our kids are left with nobody and we will sink with them.  It's like a tugboat tethered to a sinking oceanliner.  There's no way any tugboat, no matter how strong, will not sink, too... .unless that rope is cut.

I found a therapist who specializes in something called ISTDP (intensive short-term dynamic psychotherapy).  I has been invaluable and life-changing for me.  As I'm dating now, it's funny that some women even comment how I seem confident and even almost "cocky."  I've never been accused of that before.  But I'm not cocky.  It's a sign of life.  A sign of being free.  It's not easy, and I'm not "there" yet, but its a worthwhile journey.

[NotASnowflake]

I can sympathize with how you feel Soocerchic. I've been down on myself lately because I know that I cannot afford a vacation. My uBPDw has not worked in over a year and a half. And I've got some resentments about that. Why do I have to be the one to go to work every day? She has said she is taking this time to heal herself, and I'll agree that she has done more fun/outgoing/positive things lately and it's great. It's what I have encouraged her to do every other time she's been unemployed. But it would be nice if I could take that much time to figure myself out. I can't do that. But I am trying to get my vacation in one way or another. I am planning to go hiking and it being even cheaper than if I were at home. I will do this alone and it will be wonderful.

We had a talk (2AM last night... .) about resentment of her not working (in some ways it's jealousy more than resentment). She feels that this is the largest resentment I have, but it's not. My biggest resentment is that I feel so alone so much and for so long. And for a while now, I have been tense and anxious when we're together. And she tells me she feels alone too, so we're both feeling it. The FOG is what is preventing me from leaving right now.

[Soccerchic]

Thanks for the great support. Oh I've had many of those late night talks. I'm actually sitting in my room about to go to dinner (dreading it even though we have a sitter).  I'm avoiding going down the stairs.  This should be a sign. I need to take out of egypt's advice and figure out my own limits and boundaries regarding this. For example should I get separate accounts and divy up the bills but what is the consequence when he doesn't come through. Should I set a date he has to start parenting classes?  Hmm. Any limit setting that reduced anyones stress?  By the way I'm in the same boat re: vacation.  Hiking alone sounds so fabulous except I'm super scared of snakes.

[allibaba]

Soccerchic,

I just wanted to say that your story sounds exactly (NO EXACTLY) like mine.  How did you see my life? 

Unfortunately or fortunately my husband and I have been separated for about 7 months.  I still love him.  I still see him.  We are still parents together.  The fact that my husband and I aren't together isn't the important part.  The important part is that -- at some point last year -- I had to become 'uncodependent' because my son's health and well-being was was finally truly at risk (he is 2 1/2 now). 

I had to implement boundaries.  I did it because I REALLY believed in my hearts of hearts that if I tried hard enough... .if I followed the steps that my husband would realize how important I was to him and he would FINALLY get help. 

My husband and I had a very long journey together which included some VERY VERY MESSY stuff.  Courts (criminal charges unrelated to our domestic issues), countless violent incidents at our house, years with him financially draining me while being uber critical of everyone and everything - mostly me!)... .The goods news is that along the journey, I found myself for the first time in many years... .and for the first time in a decade... .I am at peace.  (oh and ps... .my husband... .when he couldn't rely on me anymore... .he went out... .got a real job and supports himself now?  now why couldn't he do that while we were together?) 

We also managed to get through all the legal stuff of 'getting unmarried' without any major issues. 

Just take care of yourself, Soccerchic. That is really the most important thing... .

I need advise desperately.  My uBPDh doesn't have a career and seems unable to earn wages that would actually pay for all his expenses as well as his children. He works hard at a low low paying hourly job. Despite my encouragement to go to school, he says he will and never follows through leaving me to carry the financial burden. Every couple of months he changes his mind what he will be when he grows up.  However, it's usually some quick unrealistic fix or a new career identity. The man is in his early 40's and not a spring chicken. He now has an injury preventing him to follow through on a physical job. I feel soo irritated.  I fantasize about being with a man who can help me pay our bills. He doesn't over spend but just can't settle on a permanent identity. In the mean time, he is really critical of the stupidest things around the house or if anyone spills anything.  He also brought home a Rottweiler to add to our animal menagerie of 3 small terriers.  He had been depressed and suicidal and I feel burdened and trapped. When I've asked him for space in the past his solution is to live in his car. He doesn't think how that would effect our kids and says he will move and leave me everything.  Oh. Thank you so much for years of strife and huge bills as well as a mortgage with no equity.  How can I be uncodependent (I don't know if that's a word). I know that there are men who work and the wife doesn't contribute as much. Am I being sexist?  Is it unrealistic to have a husband who can go on vacation with out

Sabotaging it or someone who can show empathy when the kids talk. Or how about someone who has their own identity and friends. He acts so weird when my kids have friends over pouting if he can't use the tv when he would like do to a sleep over or accusing my best friend as being latent bisexual even though she is happily married (jealousy anyone?).  First of all I don't care what her sexuality is. She would be my best friend no matter what but she is happily married to her husband. 

[waverider]

It is hard, and as others have told you it is far from abnormal.

This is why it is a Disorder or disability. You can change things but you wont be able to shoehorn him into a normal life with all the normal levels of responsibility that a non disordered person is capable of.

I think you have to work out what is possible and what is not, and of those things that you think may be, in what priority. Otherwise you will get stuck bandwaggoning problems with "and another thing that bugs me is... " type of thinking. You will become overwhelmed and give up.

There will be somethings you can change

There will be some things you can compromise on

There will be things that you just have to learn to accept.

Most of these shortfalls he will be aware of, but simply can't work around them so just makes excuses and covers up. It is hard to admit his problems if he believes he cant change them.

[waverider]

alibaba I was recently wondering what had become of you.  

Sorry to hear the wheels finally fell off. Sounds as though the journey taught you alot about yourself and life in general