Wife planing to take kids out of the country

[bpdsupport]

I think my wife is planning to take our minor kids out of the country. How can I prevent her from doing that?

She emailed me that we are done and that she changed the locks of our apartment(the lease is under her name) so I don't come back. (I left the house after her outbursts so then I come back when things are calmer. I had told her that I would do that. Because of her yelling and screaming the kids were crying)She also says that she applied for child support and leaving it up to me to file for divorce. I am the primary financial provider. She also took out half of our money from our joint bank account. I also would like to know if there's a way to prevent her from ruining my credit. How can I make sure that I am involved in how she will return/trade the SUV? The loan and registration are under both of our names. Also, what would be the date that I am no longer responsible for if she racks up her credit cards get a Lon etc? Would it be the date she emailed me that it's over? Thank you for your support.

[zaqsert]

Your best bet is to get legal advice, from a lawyer.  As others have stated here, members on these boards can share their experiences, but cannot offer legal advice.

Do your kids have passports?  If they do, can you secure the passports physically?  Otherwise, if you are in the US, here's a page that came up after a couple of minutes searching on Google:

www.travel.state.gov/content/childabduction/english/preventing/passport-issuance-alert-program.html

By the way, that page also suggests working with an attorney, as you may be able to get a court order to help prevent your kids from being removed from the country without your authorization.

[bpdsupport]

Thank you so much for your support. What I meat was to hear users' experiences thank you again!

[stockholmama]

Hi, I have direct experience with these sorts of concerns. Unfortunately, the news is generally not good.

The US does not place any exit controls. Anyone with a passport can get on a plane and go, out of the country. That includes passports to other countries as well.

So if passports didn't exist, you could place restrictions on new issuing of US passports. That applies to US passports only though. You cannot control what the consulate of another country does unfortunately. Your minor children, if they could be held to be citizens of another country, may be issued passports to that country at any time.

The US has a program called the Passport Alert which will call you anytime a parent applies for a child's passport. Generally they require signed/notarized permission of issuance from both parents before the passport will be issued. You can register with the service, and they will phone you and email you when someone applies for a passport for your child. Of course this does not help you when the passports are already issued.

If you have court proceedings, financial support requirements, etc. you can try to ask the court to hand over the passports to you for safekeeping, if you are the US-settled parent. You can negotiate a restriction on travel, but these are pretty much voluntary. The other parent can still take the child out of the country in violation of a court order, and there really isn't much you can do to stop that act. Once the other parent does that, they can be ruled in contempt of court, and it would cause problems for the parent to return at some point. This aspect is only useful if that parent needs to return and wrap up business.

There are various immigration lawyers that can advise you on International Child Abduction.

Regarding the other stuff, you'll want to drop her from your credit accounts asap so her cards linked to your account don't work anymore. Continue to monitor your credit regularly, to see if anyone made inquiries on your SS or applied in your name. someone in my relatives went through a divorce and was given a settlement. The Husband paid the Wife a settlement amount, then promptly took out an equal amount of money in credit in his WIFE'S NAME, and cashed out, and defaulted. So  that messed up Wife's credit, and basically she never got her settlement due to that.

[ForeverDad]

I had a house and my ex had to leave it, but this was exactly my experience too: Because of her yelling and screaming the kids were crying. She also says that she applied for child support and leaving it up to me to file for divorce. I am the primary financial provider.

Actually, we were separated a few months before I filed.  Her filing for child support crossed in the mail with my filing for divorce.  Since divorce trumped child support, her case was merged into mine.  Unfortunately I was the wrong gender, mother's behaviors, even threat of DV, didn't get any traction with my court.  Since I worked and she didn't work much, judge decided she had The Parenting History and so she got temp custody and child support.

I was the only one with a passport, expired, though she did say she'd disappear and I'd never see our son again but she had nowhere to run to.  If your ex is from another country, has a passport, yes, flight could be more than an intimidation/control tactic.

Side point about being the primary financial provider... .   If she is separated/divorcing then she needs to become financially independent or at least working toward that.  These days the courts too take the position that it is good for divorced parents to progress toward financial independence.  She might get short term spousal support, but your position ought to be similar to the court, that she either find a job or get training/education for a year or two so she can have a career.

The replies above are very informative and are solid peer support.  Since your ex probably can file for child support without filing for divorce, then you can go ahead and do as I did, file for divorce.  I am always referenced by domestic court as the plaintiff and my ex as the defendant.  It is what it is.  Do what you have to do.  Start by getting multiple legal consultations with family law attorneys.  Be sure to mention the international flight risk.  A good lawyer will do far more than just mention typical court outcomes, he or she will contemplate how to get the best results for you, in other words, a realistic and assertive Strategy.  While you might not be able to physically restrain your spouse from fleeing with the children, you can take legal steps to try to have the passports held in escrow for only court-approved usage and have the court order that the children not be taken out of the country without court permission.  She may or may not comply, but you will have done your reasonable best.  Superman is in the comic books and movies, us reasonably normal people can only do our reasonable best.

[livednlearned]

Hi, I have direct experience with these sorts of concerns. Unfortunately, the news is generally not good.

The US does not place any exit controls. Anyone with a passport can get on a plane and go, out of the country. That includes passports to other countries as well.

I think this depends on your wife's country of birth and where she might try to take the kids. It's different depending on which country it is.

My home country is Canada. Canadian nationals can not enter Canada with a minor child without notarized permission to travel from the other parent. A lot of what is allowed/not allowed depends not only on whether the country of destination is part of the Hague treaty, but the particulars of Hague treaties by country. Each country negotiates different terms. Canada -- probably because there is a massive shared border and a higher share of child abductions -- says it will honor the custody arrangements of foreign courts. Not all countries will do that. You need to find out the specifics of the Hague treaty for your country. Some European countries with Hague treaties allow their nationals to travel freely with the kids, but have a protocol in place that favors rulings of foreign courts. Rulings can include active custody cases -- so even if things haven't been decided, they might force extradition of the kids.

Some countries (like Japan, I think, and a number of Middle Eastern countries) do not have Hague treaties. It's easy to look up to see which ones do and don't. And also, sometimes the treaties change so it's good to spend some time researching what the deal is with the country you're worried about.

I think there is also a way to alert customs that your children are not allowed to exit the country. To do that, there might need to be an active custody case (which just means filing for divorce and working toward a consent or custody order).

I found that family law attorneys weren't too up on this stuff, so you might want to contact an international lawyer and ask how it works. If this is something you're worried about, talk to a lawyer quickly and see if there's a way to get some kind of emergency order entered that restricts travel. You might have to prove that your ex is a flight risk, or explain that your country has a Hague agreement that concerns you.

Also, to my knowledge, all minor children need both parents signatures to get a passport (unless one parent has sole or legal custody). Of course, people will forge signatures, so you might want to check into the alert process.

If your wife tries to take the kids out of the country, and you feel there is a serious threat that she might abduct the kids, you can call 911 to report it. What happens in my state is that law enforcement checks with family court to see if there is an active custody case, and looks to see if there are any restrictions on travel. I traveled with my son to California during my time, and my ex threatened to call a sheriff and have me incarcerated for "abducting" S12. Apparently, law enforcement is aware that there are parents who will panic, so they first check to see what the courts say. They won't do anything if there is nothing on file.

My situation is opposite of yours because I'm the parent who wanted to travel and N/BPDx wanted to prevent me from leaving the country. I offered to post bond if I traveled to Canada. That just means that there is insurance N/BPDx can use (that I paid for) in case I don't return. He would use that money to begin the extradition process.

If you are concerned about your wife taking the kids out of the country, file quickly and make sure to include something about foreign travel. Insist on it -- domestic family lawyers and judges will need you to direct them because it might not be common in their courts.

[momtara]

Always be recording.  If you can prove these types of threats, it would help you a lot.  In the meantime, yes, talk to a good lawyer.  And you can post for free on Avvo.com too.

[bpdsupport]

Thank you so much guys. I really really appreciate your support.

I am going away for the weekend and I am wondering if I should file before I leave. I just barely got the lawyer's contact info.

[livednlearned]

Thank you so much guys. I really really appreciate your support.

I am going away for the weekend and I am wondering if I should file before I leave. I just barely got the lawyer's contact info.

How worried are you? If you're at a 10 on a scale of 1-10, then you might want to cancel your trip and make sure this is a priority.

If it's more like a 5, then take a stack of questions to your lawyer and find out exactly what needs to get done to prevent her from leaving and go from there. I'm assuming you have to file in order to fire up the other protections for child abductions, but you want to double-check how things work in your state. Each state has its own way of doing things, and that can even vary from county to county. Each court tends to develop a way of interpreting state laws. 

In general, it's pretty important to feel good about your attorney. You're going to be giving him or her a lot of money, and once you retain them, this person becomes really important to you for the next year. Or years.   It's a good idea to think carefully and not do things just because you're pressured.

Do some research online about abducting kids out of the country so you know what questions to ask. Unless you live in an area with a lot of immigration, your average family law attorney might be looking to you for hints on how to proceed.

[ForeverDad]

It's probably not wise to file in a rush - unless you have to.  We can't decide that for you.  Is she really talking about taking them soon?  If you tell her you're contemplating or about to file, then yes she might actually do it.  But if you've kept your plans and options to yourself and not shared them with her and not given her any ultimatums then you may have some breathing room.

Do you have the right lawyer?  Remember our cases tend to be high conflict with soon-to-be ex-spouses (stbEx) obstructing, sabotaging, delaying, not responding, etc.  Many of our cases take up to two years, more or less - mine was 23.5 months - so you want to choose an experienced lawyer you have confidence in, who has an assertive strategy for more than just the 'usual' outcome.

Remember not to share information with your stbEx. If the marriage was healthy, we wouldn't say that, but it's unhealthy and dysfunctional and in our collective experience she won't react positively.  You may want to be fair and say, "This is your last chance to save the marriage, start therapy or stop ranting and raging or else I'll divorce."  However, giving 'fair notice' can backfire, your spouse may decide to sabotage you before you even get started.  So be very careful not to alert your spouse about your contemplations or plans.  Frankly, she had years to shape up and behave better, right?  But didn't, right?  So one last plea or warning won't change her overnight, but it might trigger her to sabotage your efforts.  Be aware.  Beware.

And if you rush-filed, do you even know what you'd ask for?  Ponder that.  What do you really ask for?  Maybe the lawyer says, "You probably can only get alternate weekends in a temporary order."  Does that mean you only ask for alternate weekends?  No!  Ponder... . what would be best for the children?  If you think the children would do best with you having custody and majority time, then that's your answer.  Don't be timid or self-defeating.  Ask for what you know is best for the children, not what fathers often walk out with.

My pep talk usually includes this:  If you pessimistically ask for only what you think you might get, that's all you'll get.  If you ask for more, you might get more.  More often than not it pays to be assertive and pro-active.

[bpdsupport]

Thank you so much. That make so much sense. Too bad I was trying to talk to the kids but she wouldn't let me so I told her that she's forcing me to get a lawyer and file for divorce. Anything I say or ask gets a response of "stop harassing me!"

She's planing a trip overseas in June but I am not sure when. So I do have some breathing time.

Thank you all again! This helping me so much.

[momtara]

June is not so far away, but you do have a few weeks.  Keep us posted!

[livednlearned]

Do the kids have passports?

[bpdsupport]

The kids do have US passport and wife had them. Thank you so much

[bpdsupport]

Wife has the kids passports*

[livednlearned]

Wife has the kids passports*

I wonder if you can ask the attorney to include something in the temporary order about your wife handing the passports over to be held in trust.

[cobaltblue]

Lawyer. Law firm. Now. You can file divorce and include a TPOR temporary order of restraint that states you fear she will flee the country with children. The TPOR makes that illegal and sets the venue for action to be the county of residence. Do this NOW, then take time to think about the other components later. Get the TPOR now and it will follow your paperwork through the final divorce so the judge will see your initial fear of parental abduction. This is the same as if she wanted to take them out of state or move.

[ForeverDad]

Hi, I have direct experience with these sorts of concerns. Unfortunately, the news is generally not good.

The US does not place any exit controls. Anyone with a passport can get on a plane and go, out of the country. That includes passports to other countries as well.

I think this depends on your wife's country of birth and where she might try to take the kids. It's different depending on which country it is.

My home country is Canada. Canadian nationals can not enter Canada with a minor child without notarized permission to travel from the other parent. A lot of what is allowed/not allowed depends not only on whether the country of destination is part of the Hague treaty, but the particulars of Hague treaties by country. Each country negotiates different terms. Canada -- probably because there is a massive shared border and a higher share of child abductions -- says it will honor the custody arrangements of foreign courts. Not all countries will do that.

Some countries (like Japan, I think, and a number of Middle Eastern countries) do not have Hague treaties. It's easy to look up to see which ones do and don't. And also, sometimes the treaties change so it's good to spend some time researching what the deal is with the country you're worried about.

Just an FYI, I recently read that On April 1, 2014, the Hague Convention on the Civil Aspects of International Child Abduction went into force in Japan.  Issues and concerns still remain, as one writer put it: Implementation may be frustrated by some basic features of Japanese family law that can be neatly described mathematically: 1+1=1 (in family register math, non-Japanese equal zero, also surnames should match, delays could allow the Japanese parent to establish residency, etc).