Would WE be attracted to each other?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

You know, more than once I have sat on this damn forum and read the stories from the guys here on how awful their experience was and I catch myself thinking,

"why in the hell didn't I find THAT guy? He sounds awesome!" 

So many of us are here are talented, thoughtful, accomplished, smart, witty, etc. etc.


Why were we ensnared in their web and if we mt outside of here would we even recognize the great qualities?

OR

Are we unconsciously only attracted to someone who is lesser, meaning, they don't have as much to bring to the table and NEED us (or so we think?)

See, I would have said NO to this at first.  That I did NOT see a lesser guy but my equal when we met.  But, I helped him go from an hourly blue collar job to a white collar job using a degree he never did anything with making great money in a posh part of the big city.  Once that change occurred he bought his dream car and started changing on me immediately.  He felt better than me all of a sudden (this is my take).  Moved out to a hot, new singles apartment complex that all the bachelor pad bells and whistles and wanted nothing to do with any of our previous plans of marriage and a life together.

The guy I met drove a used truck and worked in a hot warehouse doing manual labor that was WAY below his potential.  And I loved him just fin as he was.  I thought I was in love with his soul, that was sweet and low key.  He was warm and kind and made me relax immediately.  But, maybe I saw something I am not even aware of... .

[sirensong65]

You know, more than once I have sat on this damn forum and read the stories from the guys here on how awful their experience was and I catch myself thinking,

"why in the hell didn't I find THAT guy? He sounds awesome!" 

So many of us are here are talented, thoughtful, accomplished, smart, witty, etc. etc.


Why were we ensnared in their web and if we mt outside of here would we even recognize the great qualities?

OR

Are we unconsciously only attracted to someone who is lesser, meaning, they don't have as much to bring to the table and NEED us (or so we think?)

See, I would have said NO to this at first.  That I did NOT see a lesser guy but my equal when we met.  But, I helped him go from an hourly blue collar job to a white collar job using a degree he never did anything with making great money in a posh part of the big city.  Once that change occurred he bought his dream car and started changing on me immediately.  He felt better than me all of a sudden (this is my take).  Moved out to a hot, new singles apartment complex that all the bachelor pad bells and whistles and wanted nothing to do with any of our previous plans of marriage and a life together.

The guy I met drove a used truck and worked in a hot warehouse doing manual labor that was WAY below his potential.  And I loved him just fin as he was.  I thought I was in love with his soul, that was sweet and low key.  He was warm and kind and made me relax immediately.  But, maybe I saw something I am not even aware of... .

[cobaltblue]

I can't speak for others, but in general the folks who tend to be attracted to BPDs are Rescuer type personalities. We like helping other people. We care. We see something missing and want to provide it. So I think you're asking the wrong question. Would we be attracted to each other? It's possible. Nice people are attracted to nice people. The question to ask is "should" we be attracted to each other?

The obvious answer is a resounding YES; but if that were the case there wouldn't be so many of us here on these forums and we'd be frequenting NONBPDMINGLE.COM or some such... . (doesn't exist).

But yeah, particularly after having been involved in a bad relationship with so much drama, I can totally see many folks here being attracted to someone who is "normal" and who doesn't need fixing or who doesn't abuse or belittle them. Good observation.

[blissful_camper]

If I were to meet my ex today, I wouldn't be attracted to him.  I wouldn't go there.  I doubt that I could even carry on a conversation with him because I've changed.  I'm ready for healthy dialog and relationships.

Blissful "who has nothing in common with her ex" Camper

[cobaltblue]

Yep. I'm a different person too... .

[corraline]

My ex spoke a similar language to most of the posters who are well in their recovery here.  Thats what was so difficult for me.  It was like he knew everything about being with someone with BPD and recovery and was sharing the healing process with me but doing all of the hurtful crazy making behavior at other times.  That's what was so messed up about the whole thing... .

[sirensong65]

NONBPDMINGLE.com  I LOVE this idea!  !

If only, right?  I have found MORE mental illness on online dating  sites than ever before! My last TWO long term relatonships were from online dating.  BOTH were BiPolar and BOTH showed strong BPD traits.  Frankly, I won't go back online looking for love.  But, if I could go on a site that screens for PD or emotional disordered people... . wouldn't THAT be nice! 

[Cardinals in Flight]

I would definitely be attracted to my X physically, BUT, she would open her mouth... .

CiF

[blissful_camper]

My ex spoke a similar language to most of the posters who are well in their recovery here.  Thats what was so difficult for me.  It was like he knew everything about being with someone with BPD and recovery and was sharing the healing process with me but doing all of the hurtful crazy making behavior at other times.  That's what was so messed up about the whole thing... .

My ex did something similar so I'd stick it out with him.  I believe it was a deliberate strategy at his end.  It was the only way he could make the r/s last as long as possible. I bought it hook, line, and sinker, until I spoke with his ex-wife whom he used the same strategy with.      

Blissful "actions really do speak louder than words" Camper

[LettingGo14]

I'm now firmly in the "be the person you want to attract camp."   Meaning, be "differentiated" as an individual (See Murray Bowen definition of "differentiation".

Post-divorce is when I ended up with my ex-girlfriend.   The end of my marriage was not as hard as the end of my post-marriage relationship for a whole host of reasons.

David Brooks wrote an article called the ":)eepest Self" with this paragraph that spoke to me:

"So much of our own understanding of our depth occurs later in life, also amid suffering. The theologian Paul Tillich has a great essay in “Shaking the Foundations” in which he observes that during moments of suffering, people discover they are not what they appeared to be. The suffering scours away a floor inside themselves, exposing a deeper level, and then that floor gets scoured away and another deeper level is revealed. Finally, people get down to the core wounds and the core loves."

That's where I'm going -- to the core!  

[blissful_camper]

I'm now firmly in the "be the person you want to attract camp."   Meaning, be "differentiated" as an individual (See Murray Bowen definition of "differentiation".

Post-divorce is when I ended up with my ex-girlfriend.   The end of my marriage was not as hard as the end of my post-marriage relationship for a whole host of reasons.

David Brooks wrote an article called the ":)eepest Self" with this paragraph that spoke to me:

"So much of our own understanding of our depth occurs later in life, also amid suffering. The theologian Paul Tillich has a great essay in “Shaking the Foundations” in which he observes that during moments of suffering, people discover they are not what they appeared to be. The suffering scours away a floor inside themselves, exposing a deeper level, and then that floor gets scoured away and another deeper level is revealed. Finally, people get down to the core wounds and the core loves."

That's where I'm going -- to the core!  

[Hurtbeyondrepair27]

Love this thread!

[arjay]

Well interestingly for me, once divorce was final from BPDxw, we both joined eHarmony and after filling out the very lengthy profile, we were not even close to being compatible for one another... . No where even close... .

[Emelie Emelie]

we'd be frequenting NONBPDMINGLE.COM or some such

Laughing.  You know funnily enough after break up number one I started dating a guy who was fresh out of a 20 year marriage.  One night he was telling me about her and I started thinking "She's BPD".  He continued and said eventually he found this book, Stop Walking on Eggshells, and I said it out loud... . "She's BPD".  He just looked at me, he said you're familiar with BPD?  I said yeah, I'm aware.  (It was a little soon for me to be discussing my prior relationship.)  You would think we'd be a match made in heaven, right?  Eh... . not really.  He was still pretty angry.  And very freshly divorced.  I was the first woman he'd dated more than once.  Then again, who knows, I broke it off to get back together with my exBPD.  (Yep.) 

[AwakenedOne]

Are we unconsciously only attracted to someone who is lesser, meaning, they don't have as much to bring to the table and NEED us (or so we think?)

SS,

My answer is who knows? I do know that I have consciously been attracted to unique girls. That's what my answer would be. Thing is though, the unique girls I have dated turned out to be mentally ill. So I have determined that unique = Psycho. So I have changed the game plan to Plain Jane. NONBPDMINGLE.COM sounds pretty good about now.

Peace be unto you,

AO

[Narellan]

I'm pretty sure I'd still be attracted to my ex BPD because he was different to anyone I've ever met. I've always been the caretaker in the relationship and the initiator of everything we did. ( bipolar husband with depression) my ex BPD was fun, energetic, reckless, impulsive and motivated. It was nice to have someone organise everything, I felt like he " looked after me", was interested in me and he seemed so strong and self confident. He was also very emotional, shared what he felt etc which lots of men don't. I loved that.  Because if his recklessness he had a bit of bad boy in him too, and I was attracted to that. Rebellious.

I can't really imagine being attracted to anyone ever again, but that's just the stage I'm going through. I do like empathetic people who listen do if I can just lose the bad boy attraction bit, maybe one day someone nice might come along.

But for now ill do

[letmeout]

my ex BPD was fun, energetic, reckless, impulsive and motivated. It was nice to have someone organize everything, I felt like he " looked after me", was interested in me and he seemed so strong and self confident. He was also very emotional, shared what he felt etc which lots of men don't.

That is why women should have a few gay male friends; they have all of the above and you don't have to worry about any romantic entanglements. LOL

It was mostly my gay male buddies that helped me get away from my BPDex.  

[cosmonaut]

I can't speak for others, but in general the folks who tend to be attracted to BPDs are Rescuer type personalities. We like helping other people.

I am exactly the same, CB.  I am a rescuer/fixer.  I wanted more than anything in the world to save my ex.  And, My God, did she need saving.  I have never met anyone as troubled as her, nor anyone who grew up in such complete chaos.  If even half of what she told me is true (and some of it has been well corroborated by other family members), it's no wonder she is so damaged.  My ex, being a waif/hermit, very early on began to confide in me all of these horrible traumas that she has experienced, and it affected me in a profound way.  It still does; I feel it right here and now.  I wanted with all of my heart to heal that pain and wipe away all her tears.

I have spent quite  a while talking to my T about this.  She tries to tell me that while my giving nature can be a virtue, it can also be a flaw when I give to others to my own detriment.  But isn't this what sacrifice means?  Isn't it noble to sacrifice for the ones we love?  Isn't this what Jesus instructed us to do (and not only to those we love)?  Is this really a flaw?  And isn't it the nature of a man to want to rescue his lady?  Don't all of us men want to rescue our beloved from the dragon and free her from her prison tower?  Is that so wrong?

I am still wrestling with this, and am not at all clear on the answer.

NONBPDMINGLE.com  I LOVE this idea!  !

If only, right?  I have found MORE mental illness on online dating  sites than ever before! My last TWO long term relatonships were from online dating.  BOTH were BiPolar and BOTH showed strong BPD traits.  Frankly, I won't go back online looking for love.  But, if I could go on a site that screens for PD or emotional disordered people... . wouldn't THAT be nice! 

I too sometimes wonder if a relationship between two codependent, rescuers might work out very well.  Part of me thinks perhaps not, since there is still dysfunction at work.  Yet, another part of me thinks that it would be the ideal of love: giving everything to your partner and holding nothing back.  In my heart, I think I do still want the latter... .

Also, I wouldn't be quick to assume that no one here has any mood or personality disorders.  I am bipolar myself (diagnosed and medicated).  Chances are today that you would not know if I didn't tell you.  I have years of practice with coping and my medications do help.  Ultimately, I will always have it, however.  I'm not sure that is a negative - the upside is that, somewhat like pwBPD, I feel emotions extremely intensely.  When I love, I love completely.   

I do know that I have consciously been attracted to unique girls. That's what my answer would be. Thing is though, the unique girls I have dated turned out to be mentally ill.

I know what you mean, AO.  I think I have a real problem with this as well.  I can mistake intensity for love.  I think with my ex,  I thought that in some way, because things were always so chaotic and so extreme, that it must mean that our love was more passionate - even more true.  That doesn't seem to make much rational sense, but it was what I (subconsciously) believed at the time.  I made so many excuses for her and allowed so much negative behavior, because I knew that she was troubled and traumatized, and I thought that our love we had was so strong and so true it would overcome it all.   It has been a painful lesson to learn that wasn't the case.

[BorisAcusio]

I can't speak for others, but in general the folks who tend to be attracted to BPDs are Rescuer type personalities. We like helping other people.

I am exactly the same, CB.  I am a rescuer/fixer.  I wanted more than anything in the world to save my ex.  And, My God, did she need saving.  I have never met anyone as troubled as her, nor anyone who grew up in such complete chaos.  If even half of what she told me is true (and some of it has been well corroborated by other family members), it's no wonder she is so damaged.  My ex, being a waif/hermit, very early on began to confide in me all of these horrible traumas that she has experienced, and it affected me in a profound way.  It still does; I feel it right here and now.  I wanted with all of my heart to heal that pain and wipe away all her tears.

I have spent quite  a while talking to my T about this.  She tries to tell me that while my giving nature can be a virtue, it can also be a flaw when I give to others to my own detriment.  But isn't this what sacrifice means?  Isn't it noble to sacrifice for the ones we love? Isn't this what Jesus instructed us to do (and not only to those we love)?  Is this really a flaw?  And isn't it the nature of a man to want to rescue his lady?  Don't all of us men want to rescue our beloved from the dragon and free her from her prison tower?  Is that so wrong?

I don't think so. While I'm not religious, Jesus sacrificed himself for sins of humanity, while with a pwBPD, you sacrifice yourself for nothing, worse, you become part of the problem itself, as you let them continue with their act without having to expereince the real consequences.

[cosmonaut]

I don't think so. While I'm not religious, Jesus sacrificed himself for sins of humanity, while with a pwBPD, you sacrifice yourself for nothing, worse, you become part of the problem itself, as you let them continue with their act without having to expereince the real consequences.

This is an interesting point, Boris.  Is it more loving to allow a pwBPD to fall so that they have the most chance of seeking treatment and facing their disorder?  I am not sure of that.  I am a Christian, but I will try to avoid making this a theological discussion since this is not really the appropriate forum for that.  However, it has been much on my mind what Christ said about what we do for the least of His people, we do it to Him.   I am not sure of what the answer is.  Things I have been wrestling with.   You have a very good point, however, and one that I do consider.

[christoff522]

I am exactly the same, CB.  I am a rescuer/fixer.  I wanted more than anything in the world to save my ex.  And, My God, did she need saving.  I have never met anyone as troubled as her, nor anyone who grew up in such complete chaos.  If even half of what she told me is true (and some of it has been well corroborated by other family members), it's no wonder she is so damaged.  My ex, being a waif/hermit, very early on began to confide in me all of these horrible traumas that she has experienced, and it affected me in a profound way.  It still does; I feel it right here and now.  I wanted with all of my heart to heal that pain and wipe away all her tears.

This is why BPDs seek our type out, its a great weight on their shoulders carrying all this angst and self hatred and memories, they basically need to offload. I think that their best situation is Triangulation, one is to have a bf that they can be 'normal' with, and a second person to offload and 'enable' them. The enabling of course is being offloaded onto, allowing the situation to carry on as it is. We all heard about the traumas, about the dad who left who they hate, the evil mother who may one day put arsenic into your girl's cup of tea. the friends who are all sl*ts, the stalkers who used to drive past their house, the brothers and sisters she never sees and on and on. The desire to sleep and never wake up... . The real place they need to be is with an exemplary therapist, far far away from us who sadly... enable.

I have spent quite  a while talking to my T about this.  She tries to tell me that while my giving nature can be a virtue, it can also be a flaw when I give to others to my own detriment.  But isn't this what sacrifice means?  Isn't it noble to sacrifice for the ones we love?  Isn't this what Jesus instructed us to do (and not only to those we love)?  Is this really a flaw?  And isn't it the nature of a man to want to rescue his lady?  Don't all of us men want to rescue our beloved from the dragon and free her from her prison tower?  Is that so wrong?

I'm with the therapist, of course Jesus says to take up your cross and follow him, but you have to remember that Jesus came to die for our sins, and he told us to spread the gospel, to help the widows and orphans in their poverty. He didn't tell us to be therapists and counsellors. His golden rule said "Love the Lord your God and Love thy neighbour as thyself" as thyself! You have to love yourself first, and you have to ask yourself, if you had this disorder - would you want someone with low self esteem, with their own issues, to be treated the way you've been treated? Whilst we may imagine that we're some sort of hero on a steed, we're more like hangers on, living in a fantasy world.

I am still wrestling with this, and am not at all clear on the answer.

The answer is - Yes it is wrong, its okay in ignorance, but knowing what we know... its not a healthy mindset.

I too sometimes wonder if a relationship between two codependent, rescuers might work out very well.  Part of me thinks perhaps not, since there is still dysfunction at work.  Yet, another part of me thinks that it would be the ideal of love: giving everything to your partner and holding nothing back.  In my heart, I think I do still want the latter... .

What we need is a healthy relationship, one that doesn't need therapy to keep it going.

... I have to stop, theres so much to answer here 

[christoff522]

I don't think so. While I'm not religious, Jesus sacrificed himself for sins of humanity, while with a pwBPD, you sacrifice yourself for nothing, worse, you become part of the problem itself, as you let them continue with their act without having to expereince the real consequences.

This is an interesting point, Boris.  Is it more loving to allow a pwBPD to fall so that they have the most chance of seeking treatment and facing their disorder?  I am not sure of that.  I am a Christian, but I will try to avoid making this a theological discussion since this is not really the appropriate forum for that.  However, it has been much on my mind what Christ said about what we do for the least of His people, we do it to Him.   I am not sure of what the answer is.  Things I have been wrestling with.   You have a very good point, however, and one that I do consider.

BPDs are not the least of these, the least of these are humble, meek, poor folks. The least of these is more likely to be innocent children than spoilt brats who spend their lives leeching off others - PURPOSELY AND KNOWLEDGABLY. Who are arrogant, self centred, repress their empathy, have NO CARE for others, expect appreciation for the littlest of good deeds and will exaggerate their good deeds to make themselves seem better. Nowhere does the bible place people like my ex, and my ex best friend as the 'least of these'.

Remember the widows mite? where the woman puts her life savings into the temple donation box? thats the least of these, or the child who sits on his knee and Jesus says "anyone who offends a little one such as these, it would be better for him to have a millstone placed around his neck and be cast into the sea" thats the least of these. The BPD is more like to be the one better off cast into the sea.

I'm not saying don't love them and care for them, but don't imagine that Jesus wants you to spend your life trying to help them, and anyone who intended to do such a thing should SERIOUSLY consider their motives. If you're willing to waste your life trying to please someone like that... you may as well do missionary work instead and make a real difference.

[LettingGo14]

... . spoilt brats who spend their lives leeching off others - PURPOSELY AND KNOWLEDGABLY. Who are arrogant, self centred, repress their empathy, have NO CARE for others, expect appreciation for the littlest of good deeds and will exaggerate their good deeds to make themselves seem better. Nowhere does the bible place people like my ex, and my ex best friend as the 'least of these'.

The pain that accompanies the end of our relationships is palpable, and real, and acknowledged, especially when ended in a manner as described by Christoff522.

My only antidote to the suffering that followed abandonment and replacement is to turn all attention to myself.  To put my oxygen mask on first.  Learning about BPD helped me let go of trying to save my relationship or my ex-girlfriend.  It's a disorder and, in my situation where I became a trigger and perceived persecutor, saving things was not an option.

The pain in the aftermath of my relationship's end -- the anger, sadness, shame, and confusion -- is what I process now.   My relationship's gone.   And I'm grateful for everyone here.   You all have made a world of difference in my life.   And I thank you for sharing so honestly -- if that's not helping (or saving!) others, I don't know what is.  

[BorisAcusio]

BPDs are not the least of these, the least of these are humble, meek, poor folks. The least of these is more likely to be innocent children than spoilt brats who spend their lives leeching off others - PURPOSELY AND KNOWLEDGABLY. Who are arrogant, self centred, repress their empathy, have NO CARE for others, expect appreciation for the littlest of good deeds and will exaggerate their good deeds to make themselves seem better. Nowhere does the bible place people like my ex, and my ex best friend as the 'least of these'.

To clarify this, they don't repress their empathy. Healthy empathic capacity stems from integrated self- abd object representations. With the lack of this, it's severely impaired.

[christoff522]

BPDs are not the least of these, the least of these are humble, meek, poor folks. The least of these is more likely to be innocent children than spoilt brats who spend their lives leeching off others - PURPOSELY AND KNOWLEDGABLY. Who are arrogant, self centred, repress their empathy, have NO CARE for others, expect appreciation for the littlest of good deeds and will exaggerate their good deeds to make themselves seem better. Nowhere does the bible place people like my ex, and my ex best friend as the 'least of these'.

To clarify this, they don't repress their empathy. Healthy empathic capacity stems from integrated self- abd object representations. With the lack of this, it's severely impaired.

What I essentially meant was a severe disregard for the feelintgs of others. Indeed empathy is 'repressed', the ability is there it's just not used. Yes impaired, but it IS there. Its just not used. As children these emotions and abilities existed. They are just held back (repressed).

[Should I stay or...]

Cosmo,

... also God helps those that help themselves, that's why we're here and they?

[Narellan]

Lettinggo14 Thankyou for your insightful post. It's helped me question/clarify a few things.

[redbaron5]

I've read so many threads here from so many thoughtful, confused, empathetic, genuine women that are feeling the same way I am. I often compare your thought processes to my BPDex and ask myself why I couldn't have met someone more like you gals.

[Narellan]

Redbaron5 because if we were in the same room at a party you would be watching the girl on her own scanning the room looking like she didn't want to be there, and I'd be talking to the loudmouth a$$hole who was making everyone laugh. 

Jokes aside though that's a nice thought that you posted.

[Pecator]

So wait,

We are a bit off topic here.

does "NONBPDMINGLE.COM" exist or not 

[letmeout]

That would be nice to meet like-minded people to date!