What did you lose?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

 

In reality what did you really lose when your ex left you or you left them?

Sure we loved them, but at the end what did you really lose though?

What I lost (Who she is)

Someone selfish

Someone cruel

Someone with no commitment even though we were married

Someone who doesn't understand what love is

Someone who is a liar

Someone is ungrateful

Someone who mocks God constantly

Someone who is an actor

Someone who has no remorse

Someone who blames

Someone who abandons

Someone who rages

Someone who demeans

What did you really lose when you lost your ex?

[AwakenedOne]

 

In reality what did you really lose when your ex left you or you left them?

Sure we loved them, but at the end what did you really lose though?

What I lost (Who she is)

Someone selfish

Someone cruel

Someone with no commitment even though we were married

Someone who doesn't understand what love is

Someone who is a liar

Someone is ungrateful

Someone who mocks God constantly

Someone who is an actor

Someone who has no remorse

Someone who blames

Someone who abandons

Someone who rages

Someone who demeans

What did you really lose when you lost your ex?

[Narellan]

My heart. And trust. That's what I lost.

Oh yeah and my parents, sister, best friend, other mutual acquaintance friends, my regular girls night drinks, my social circle.

I lost myself.

[NewMom]

I lost my heart and myself as well :'(

All of those statements you wrote are right.  Now that I know that.  But before all I could see was that the world was upside down and the man I loved for close to 20 years didn't come close to the feelings I had.  And the women who kept/keep getting involved with him, even though they knew we were married didn't care that he was - also extremely disappointing and shooting my naivité down.  The hurt will enable me to move on but not without some pretty deep scars.

[Dutched]

I lost my D23 because of all.

She wrote: “I prefer to live with grieve of not seeing you, instead of grieving because you can’t coop with my standards”…  NC since more than 2 yrs, although I reached out to her several times.

Damn that hurts losing a child too!  Won’t be able to bring her to he wedding altar one day! 

Lost my family, the most important in my life

My heart

Lost my total life after +30 yrs.

Lost all of my dreams, plans we made for near and far future

My trust in other people (besides a few close friends and family), keeping people at a distant in order not to be hurt again.

At mid 50 now I lost my secured financial future, can’t be regained.

It’s more than 3 yrs after she left, still fighting and wondering every day.

Questioning myself if I ever will be able to overcome all, which I still doubt.

Was all a Broadway play, in which I unnoticed participated, being there as “tower of strength” to rely on, giving love, taking care of, stability, useful as sperm donor and debit card?

Asking myself what I didn’t loose might be a very short list.

In fact giving love, being a good father for S19.

[sirius]

I lost all my friends, one of my brother, potential friends, business, believes, my foundation, trust, confidence, self esteem... . basically everything

There is nothing for me to lose anymore... . what the hell

[Narellan]

This is such a sad thread. Maybe we should talk about what we didn't lose?

[AwakenedOne]

When I posted this question I thought the discussion would go a different way. I thought we would focus more on our ex's and what we really lost when the relationship ended concerning them.

I guess the intent of the post was that we could see that our ex's were not healthy for us and that losing a toxic person in a good way could give us a second chance to find someone healthy again in our lives to love and have our dreams come true with.

Reading the responses so far are very sad. I have learned two valuable things from posting this though.

1. Some others have it way worse than I do. I should give thanks for what I do have.

What I lost - 4 years of time - my marriage - dreams that I had with this person that we would have come true in our life together. After being abandoned by her I lost all money, a car, a job, a place to live and had to drop out of school.

2. Losing our ex's is an extremely complicated thing that affects lives (families)(loved ones) besides the ones breaking up (us). There are no simple answers for a question like this.

Thank you for helping me understand this  

Peace,

AO

[sirius]

sorry folks... . what I mean is, we lost someone that we really loved once upon a time that comes with really bad behaviour. In the midst of losing the person that we loved, we lose part of ourselves too with it. And beeing through the soul searching process and been in here, we also found something of ourselves that was buried away for a long time when we started the relationsship.

That's what I feel and letting go of that and replacing it with something that we had in ourselves by learning to love ourselves more, that once we were good at that before the toxic relationship started.

[Narellan]

Hey AO, my responses are just where I'm at with the detachment... . Still sad... . Still trying to get past the pain. In a few months I might answer differently. Sorry I was the first response, I can see it could go either way depending on whether you're grieving or moved on.

There was nothing wrong with the question. 

[sirius]

Dear AO and Narellan,

I am 12 weeks into the split and 34 days into NC, I am still grieving... . moved on and then back to griving again... . once in a while it feels horrible.

Most of the time, I've been thinking of what I have been missing... . my ex most of it and also some things that I have missed doing or places I missed going before the r/s.

Somehow, counting the things you lose is also counting the things you gain because of the b/u.

[AwakenedOne]

Dear AO and Narellan,

I am 12 weeks into the split and 34 days into NC, I am still grieving... . moved on and then back to griving again... . once in a while it feels horrible.

Most of the time, I've been thinking of what I have been missing... . my ex most of it and also some things that I have missed doing or places I missed going before the r/s.

Somehow, counting the things you lose is also counting the things you gain because of the b/u.

Hey Sirius,

Sorry your hurting, it's very understandable. I remember when I was at 34 days NC. I am at 9 months NC now. I have some down days, I'm tied to her till divorced. What do you do for fun now and do you have anything that helps you take your mind off of her a bit? I play guitar that is huge escape for me. Hang in there Sirius.

Peace,

AO

[mywifecrazy]

In reality what did you really lose when your ex left you or you left them?

Sure we loved them, but at the end what did you really lose though?

The positive things that I thought I lost:

A caring partner, a loving mother to my kids, a soulmate, our family unit, a best friend,

My future life with her, my confidant, all the good memories of our life together

I DIDN'T loose these things because I NEVER really had them. It was all smoke and mirrors a FABRICATION. A CLEVER deception to keep me blinded to her double life

What I really lost:

Being married to a SICK, SICK person who would still be lying to me and manipulating me so she could run around and screw other people. A person who thinks so little of me that she accused me of raping her, beating on her and my kids just so she could have people feel sorry for her (yeah I'm gonna miss that!). A lazy person! A partner who doesn't want to work, a mother who would leave her kids alone in the middle of the night to go screw the neighbor, a woman who didn't give A RATS ASS about me

What I gained or saved:

My sanity, my house, my retirement looks better (addition by subtraction), my health, my faith in God, my kids (I have primary custody), Her families respect (now they know the truth about me now that her lies are exposed), true friends who care about me, a healthy outlook on life. I gained FINALLY finding out the truth. AND THE TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE!

[going places]

In reality what did you really lose when your ex left you or you left them?

Sure we loved them, but at the end what did you really lose though?

What I lost (Who she is)

Someone selfish

Someone cruel

Someone with no commitment even though we were married

Someone who doesn't understand what love is

Someone who is a liar

Someone is ungrateful

Someone who mocks God constantly

Someone who is an actor

Someone who has no remorse

Someone who blames

Someone who abandons

Someone who rages

Someone who demeans

What did you really lose when you lost your ex?

A heartache.

Nothing but a heart ache.

It's a fool's game

Nothing but a fools game

Standing in the cold rain

Feeling like a clown

I am more focused on what successes lie ahead, than I am what is behind me.

If I am doing 70 down the interstate, I cannot keep staring in the tiny rear view mirror, looking at what's behind me.

I am looking thru the giant windshield of what's to come!

[Dutched]

AwakenedOne,

There is no need to apologize in any way, don’t feel as such.

Our stories are sad, we are hurt to the core of ourselves.

I also reacted in a sad way.  Doesn’t prevent me to feel the pain and moving forward day by day with my memory and being confronted with myself. In a way learning to walk again.

Yes, I gained some too, there are no eggshells in my house anymore to walk on

[Infared]

Wow... . this is a sad thread... . but BPD  relationships cause a lot of pain. I feel that I lost a lot more than I gained... . although I learned a lot and was able to eventually love myself I still have this feeling which is hard to explain to people:

If someone loses a leg it is gone, it does not grow back. I feel that in the fallout from that severe, abrupt ending that emotionally I had my leg cut off... . and it never grew back. I am not going to say "I lost me"... . but I will say that I was changed in a way that I do not like (damaged).

... . by going completely NC, getting therapy, and joining self help group things have gotten better and I love and respect who I am, but I have found that I will not take the chance on my well-being by getting into another romantic relationship.  What I thought was wonderful turned into something soo ugly that I do not know how to unlearn that.

I have a low-ebb sadness inside that does not go away, but I try to concentrate on the other aspects of life that give me joy and put my energy there. I am at least guaranteed not to suffer that kind of pain ever again. That gives me some peace.

[mywifecrazy]

@Infared

I don't know how for out of your relationship you are but you need to give yourself time. everyone goes through stages. It will be a year for me this Father's Day when I caught my uBPDxw with another man so it's almost been a year for me. I'm at a much better place now than I was just three months ago. And three months ago I was much further along then when the bomb first one off. Complete healing takes time we must all go through each stage to get to the place where we are completely healed and whole again.

For me it was 20 years. I know and recognize now that I can't expect to be fully healed in just one year. But I must say I am overwhelmed with joy at the progress I have made in such a short time!

... . by going completely NC, getting therapy, and joining self help group things have gotten better and I love and respect who I am, but I have found that I will not take the chance on my well-being by getting into another romantic relationship.

I am doing the same things as you and they have proven to be a blessing to me (keep it up). And I know EXACTLY how you feel about getting into another relationship! I've decided to just focus I getting myself healthy and happy on my own. If I ever meet someone again rest assured she will be HEALTHY and happy with who she is or I will never be in a relationship again and that is OK with me.

Peace Brother!

[Narellan]

Infared I could have written your post. I am totally the same way. I'm only 10 weeks out though. Despite the profound sadness I feel a new me isn't far away. A better stronger me.

I don't regret this relationship. I needed to have it to find myself. I am truly grateful to my exBPD. Lots of the things I lost in this relationship I needed to lose. I was far to naive and vulnerable, and I'm a better person now I'm not so blatantly trusting of people.

[sirius]

Thanks AO, I pray when I am down, got down on my knees and talk to GOD like I talk to my P about how I feel.

mywifecrazy, I can relate, the hardest thing is to come to terms that all the sincere love and loyalty was just an illusion. I thought we had a life together and to find out later that she had several lives outside our r/s. I was accused of these things as well and when I found out she cheating on me for 7 years out of our 12 years r/s, I was lost beyond words as i gave my entire life to her.

AO, don't have to apologize, sometimes these things "trigger" us back to the memories as we are still grieving at some point... . it gets better, like Dutched said... . no more eggshells

[kba1969]

I lost the chance to call it a beautiful relationship.

I lost my respect for many of her friends and family.

I lost... . you know what?  I didn't lose anything, I've only gained knowledge about most importantly, myself.  Yea I can say I lost some stuff but I'm calling it a gain.

[Infared]

Narellan... .

yes... . I read your other posts up above and you are so deep in the forest right now.  I am sure that my situation is quite a bit different than most on this page.  I am 10 years out of contact with my ex pwBPD. That's right 10 years.  I did not know about BPD when that all went down.  I had contact for about a year after she ran off,  but it was so abusive. This person had been very passive and sweet during the relationship and then when she ran off to new hero and villainized me... . it was so sudden.  Her and her new hero would go out of their way to emotionally abuse me. It was so shocking and painful.  I really loved her parents and they loved me (my family, I choose to have no contact with, but that is another discussion)... . all that ended. Right before the split I lost a killer job from no fault of my own. Downsizing. I had to move from our home after she ran off and my mother got sick and died over a period of a year. I was totally there for her, that helped and caused me pain because I had no partner for support. All in one year. I also had to deal with alcoholism... that was very dormant during our relationship... . but I was in so much pain it came raging back into my life as a "solution".  I almost committed suicide several times the pain was soo great... . I slowly overcame all of these things. I healed as best I could.  

I am not a young man... . I will be 60years old in Nov. I am a young 60, fit, healthy decent looking guy who gets along with people.  I just pulled in on my motorcycle before typing this! :-)  I dated someone 2-years out... explained to her my past and that I was trying to open up. I was opening up, but she could not "really" include me in her family and I just sensed I could not trust her... . She was QUITE beautiful and older than me ... . but I just felt I could not trust her.  It was like she wanted an "F"-Buddy or something and I wanted a partner. So part of this is my age... . but I decided to break that off, (we are still friends) and I let my self heal form that... . and I looked around (I live in NJ... . so that demographic does not help... . it is so all about money here... . but I just do not care about that), and I just got to this place where I have my work, good friends... . I live in a very modest apt., but right on the beach... . and I just said felt I didn't have another relationship in me.  My life is peaceful and simple. I just don't want another rollercoaster ride. I watch people go thru the turnstyle to that all the time... . and I just sit back and laugh.   I just want peace and serenity and simple. For me... that means being alone.  ... . but I am not recommending that or anything... . it has just been my path.

I still see my ex... and there is no telling what she is going to do when I see her... . but I can count on it being something very immature from both her and her partner.  I am always minding my business. They are not. I just do nothing and figure out at that moment what is the best thing I can do to protect me... . and that is what I do. If she tries to make contact, I get up and go. I have not talked to her in person or in any media for over ten years. It still matters to me... . but there is nothing to be done. Nothing. Part of me will always miss her and part of me will always hate her.

Sorry the post is son long ... . but I did not know how to condense it.

[MrEveryman]

I lost a lover, companion and meaningful friendship of many years.

I lost a potential future and the dreams i had that included her.

I lost another family who took to me and welcomed me.

However i also lost some other things else:

I lost the doubt i carried with me for many years regarding the fact that i would make a good life partner after my own struggles.

I lost the doubt that i would make a good lover, companion and friend through the years.

I lost the doubt about all relationships i began eventually fading.

I lost my ignorance of the deep pain people with mental issues face every day.

I lost weight and gained a physique on a par with my mental capabilities, becoming closer to "the complete picture" i saw for myself.

I regained the confidence to approach women i had when i was in my younger prime.

---

She lost me and all i had for her. 

One day someone else will share what i have to offer without exception, and that is a very exciting thought.

[AwakenedOne]

I am glad this thread has turned out to be helpful to others to vent, share and reflect. I will add a bit more to the discussion.

What I lost:

It's hard to believe that the person I asked to marry me (uBPDstbxw) would one day not care if I exist. She mirrored me so much I have no idea of who she really even is. The mirroring was not necessary, I liked her, what I thought was her from the first day I met her. Even after 4 years I don't know who she is or what was real with the HUGE amount of lies. I know she doesnt ultimately care about me though for sure. As others have stated in recent threads here, I saw a lot of premediated horrible actions and decisions from my wife that come pretty close to being considered "evil". She abandoned the marriage and left me to flounder with nothing and nowhere to go in reality and no easy way to rebuild.

I am rebuilding anyway and taking things one day at a time. I have not given up on a single dream for the rest of my life. I face the reality that I have been dealt a huge setback though. I was crushed after being abandoned. I am suprisingly doing better every day. Just thinking what I really lost (the real her) helps me detach. I have my own techniques to recover. I know I am detaching because if I saw her with another guy now on the street it wouldnt massively bother me. I can actually say I dont love her any more, or at least I dont think I do. If I still have love for her it's like a 2% milk love. The love of her is just the fat content of life's milk. When I type out I dont love her it is painful actually to say this. I feel like I am saying something wrong and betraying her. I don't really understand this. Probably a result of her attempted constant brainwashing methods against me of saying I am so bad, terrible, evil, worthless, etc. etc... .

For those of you that your wounds are fresh and just coming from the breakup, the saying "It gets better with time" is true. Time doesnt make it better though, it just deadens and dulls which makes it better or not as worse. I wasn't expecting to meet or marry this person in that moment of time in my life. I feel the same thing will happen with the future MS. Right. She will come along and we will ride of into the sunset on a horse together named Horsey.

Peace,

AO

[moveforward]

I have lost all the endless nights crying in bed trying to understand why someone I loved so much could treat me so badly

I lost having to be in constant alert not to do or say anything that wld trigger an unwanted reaction

I lost being criticized by the things I do, eat, dress and blablabla….

I lost the hope and belief that one day things would get better, that if tried hard enough they would improve

I lost the rollercoaster ride

I lost the feeling I was responsible for my xBPD

I lost the fairytale that only existed in my mind

After loosing so much ☺ I have realized that the only way forward is through self analysis and deep understanding of the reasons/motivation for enduring so much under such poor stimuli….

Easier said than done, however, after hitting rock bottom you realize that the only thing you can do next is to get up…. 

Peace X

[Infared]

I wish we could all get together for coffee and discuss this... .

[Narellan]

Same infared but wed probably all talk over the top of each other .

We'd need a long weekend !

[tholian]

For me, i've lost the ability to trust people. I used to be full of life and had a care free attitude. But nowadays, the joy is not there cause the scar and pain she left is too much.

[woodsposse]

 

I had to skip to the end and not read through the rest of the posts cause I felt moved to share what is on my head tonight.

Yes, I did loose the same types of things everyone else is sharing.  I lost what future we could have had - and I lost the past I thought I had.  It took me a long time to get to a point where thinking about what actually happened in our relationship (the things she lied about, or me not knowing what she actually did) didn't bother me so badly.

I realize, now, that I have lost the ability to really trust anyone.  There is a huge part of me which just doesn't care.  Like that part of me is shut down.  I almost expect that everyone will lie or cheat - and it just doesn't matter at times.

I want that to be different, but right now... . the truth is - it's gone.

[blissful_camper]

I realize, now, that I have lost the ability to really trust anyone.  There is a huge part of me which just doesn't care.  Like that part of me is shut down.  I almost expect that everyone will lie or cheat - and it just doesn't matter at times.

I want that to be different, but right now... . the truth is - it's gone.

Ditto.  It's something I'm actively working on changing. 

Blissful "optimistic that we can all heal and trust once again" Camper

[mywifecrazy]

I realize, now, that I have lost the ability to really trust anyone.  There is a huge part of me which just doesn't care.  Like that part of me is shut down.

I want that to be different, but right now... . the truth is - it's gone.

And that's OK to feel that way for now. We all were the exact opposite when we met our pwBPD and got into our relationships. We were naive, gullible and BLINDLY loyal to our SO and we all paid the price for being too trusting. We were UNHEALTHY for this reason.

The pendulum is now swinging back and we are all going to be untrusting and very guarded for a time. But as we heal and become healthy the pendulum will center itself and we will have the proper balance of trust and keen observation to pick up on those     

[woodsposse]

 

The funny part about the  is that... . I see them.  I have always seen them.  Even now.  Back in the day (when I didn't put 2 and 2 together) and didn't know about the effects of dealing with someone disordered, I just thought it was normal operating procedure.  Yes, because of my childhood issues, it seemed normal to stay in it and try and intellectualize my way through it.

After my split with my (now) exwife, I got into another relationship... . saw all the flags and just didn't care.

I mean, a part of me cared - but I was so hurt (and still am) I was wiling to take what "good" in that r/s and just not even pay attention to the flags.  But, subconsciously I know it still bothered me... . and that is the part I know I'm working on now.

I have to remain conscious of the fact when things are going on around me I just don't like or emotionally I'm just not "feeling it" - because if I ignore it or just let it be... . then I get all jumbled in my head and have a difficult time processing.

It's like I know what I have to do - but a part of me doesn't do it and then I try and rationalize it.  I get to talking about the same thing over and over and over.  Sometimes I don't even realize I had already talked about it.

I brought it up in a therapy session... . and my therapist said 'yeah, we talked about this last week'.  I was floored.  I couldn't even recall that I had already talked about it.  She flat out told me "you have been surrounded by disordered women your entire life." 

And it's true.  It all started back with my mom... . I finally was able to identify that.  That helped me at least understand a bunch of stuff.  But my r/s with my wife over the past 20 years had really done a number on my head.  That is the junk I'm still trying to work through.

I've got some additional work I need to do... . because I like me when I'm me (and not bogged down by negative memories... . or triggers.  God I hate triggers.)  They just pop up at the most inopportunie times.

[Inside]

…this is a tricky one … let’s see...  

Lost what I considered a second chance at love; which turned out to be an elusion.  

Lost some self confidence …but am pleased to find that was temporary.

Lost a boatload of stress  …and what felt like a reason to persevere.  

Lost what felt like a new family, and a multitude of problems due to their BPD member…

Lost a bit less money than I could have, though she still owes me...

Will have lost a century farm… long story, but time spent ‘solidifying our r/s’ was time wasted in a time-critical situation.

Felt like losing a Daughter, after spending too much time with my uBPDxgf (daughter moved in with her mother)…

Lost a friend; but when his choice was to pursue her and disregard me, was that really a friend?

Didn’t lose a brother, though she tried to lure him, too.

Lost some faith in humanity; gained an appreciation of sanity.

Lost over 3 years of my relational life, but experienced things I’d never have dreamt.

Lost instability, a constant drain on my resources, near constant worry and fear, confusion and worthless commitments…

…and am still trying to determine if it were better to have loved and lost than never loved and never lost... ?  My last conclusion was yes, but what a costly experience  

[Ihope2]

I lost my dream of building a wonderful loving and supportive relationship with a person who seemed really deep and genuine at first.

I lost my naivete.

I lost my gullibility.

I lost my peace of mind and sense of calm (but will get them back in time).

I lost a lot of money.

I gained a lot of wisdom and self-awareness.

I gained a new insight into my childhood influences, my FOO issues. And the real state of my relationship with my mother, not what I pretended it was to myself and her.  And I gained insight into my painful, non-existant relationship with my late father.

I gained the opportunity to look deep inside myself and learn that my "inner child" has been in pain for all my life and how to help her find healing.

I gained a lot of insight into Personality Disorders and how to recognise the "red flags" when it comes to people with PD. 

I gained something immense in that I think all of this suffering and turmoil has somehow helped me to become more "real" with myself and others.  No more living my "False self", now I want to be my "Authentic self"

Despite the pain and turmoil and deep sadness, I am thankful for what I have gained from knowing my BPD ex h. 

[Reforming]

Loss of a best friend

Loss of a codependent

Loss of a convenient distraction

Loss of an excuse for not looking after myself

Loss of someone else to focus on rather than myself

Loss of an excuse for not having clear direction

Loss of an illusion

Loss of a fantasy future

Loss of an obstacle to real happiness

Loss of my false self

At the risk of sounding existentialist - and I'm not a fan of that particular philosophy - loss is part of life.

Sometimes on this board I think we become so focussed on another person and their illness that we lose sight of the rest of the world and ourselves

The breakdown of most marriages and long term relationships is frequently accompanied by pain, loss, anger, disillusion, blame, recrimination and even recycling.

And most of these relationships do not involve PDs.

But there's no question that BPD break ups are particularly toxic.

For me the hardest parts of recovering from a relationship with a suspected BPD are;

Accepting the reality of the illness. Initially it sounds so fantastical that it's hard to believe. It doesn't help that so few sufferers are actually diagnosed

Letting your BPD go. The push pull, idealisation makes detachment very difficult especially when there's still contact

Accepting responsibility for your own choices, for your own life.

For me the last is the hardest... .

It's a waste of life and breath to blame someone else for how I feel or how I act…

But even though I know this is true at times I find it so difficult to actually accept responsibility for myself

It can be overwhelming - even terrifying and it's so easy to slip into anger and blame someone else.

Even when they've left the building

[blissful_camper]

I was too trusting and gullible.  I was easily manipulated because I'm the type of person who gives others the benefit of the doubt when I shouldn't.  I saw the  and I didn't accept them.  When the red flags were so bright red that they caused a physical reaction in me (the instinctual/intuitive feeling that something's not right), I asked my ex to clarify the event/what he said or meant.  That was a mistake on my part.  I was assuming that he would be honest.  

When the r/s ended and I moved back to my home state, a close friend visited who is in a healthy marriage.  She went through the "list" with me.  I asked, "is this normal?"  She said, "no."  I asked, "is this a normal reaction at his end?" "No."  She gave me some really good advice.  She told me to stop assuming that others can be trusted, and to allow others to show me that they can be trusted.  I allowed my ex to tell me that he could be trusted.  Mistake.  

Blissful "our intuition serves us well if we listen to it" Camper

[going places]

Loss of a best friend

Loss of a codependent

Loss of a convenient distraction

Loss of an excuse for not looking after myself

Loss of someone else to focus on rather than myself

Loss of an excuse for not having clear direction

Loss of an illusion

Loss of a fantasy future

Loss of an obstacle to real happiness

Loss of my false self

At the risk of sounding existentialist - and I'm not a fan of that particular philosophy - loss is part of life.

Sometimes on this board I think we become so focussed on another person and their illness that we lose sight of the rest of the world and ourselves

The breakdown of most marriages and long term relationships is frequently accompanied by pain, loss, anger, disillusion, blame, recrimination and even recycling.

And most of these relationships do not involve PDs.

But there's no question that BPD break ups are particularly toxic.

For me the hardest parts of recovering from a relationship with a suspected BPD are;

Accepting the reality of the illness. Initially it sounds so fantastical that it's hard to believe. It doesn't help that so few sufferers are actually diagnosed

Letting your BPD go. The push pull, idealisation makes detachment very difficult especially when there's still contact

Accepting responsibility for your own choices, for your own life.

For me the last is the hardest... .

It's a waste of life and breath to blame someone else for how I feel or how I act…

But even though I know this is true at times I find it so difficult to actually accept responsibility for myself



It can be overwhelming - even terrifying and it's so easy to slip into anger and blame someone else.

Even when they've left the building

Absolutely brilliant. SO bang on true.

[Popcorn71]

I was very interested to read this topic.  I have been on vacation for a few days in a very peaceful and beautiful place with time to relax and think.  While I was there I spent a few hours thinking about 'what I have lost' in this context.

I came to realise that what I initially thought I had lost and what I had actually lost, were very different.

I thought I lost /font]

a loving husband who I was happy with and would spend the rest of my life with

a trustworthy and reliable man who loved me

a partner who was totally committed to me as I was to him

a companion and friend

a provider and financially stable life

the life we had planned together

my social life

my happiness


The reality is that I have lost none of these things.


What I have actually lost is/font]

A liar and a cheat

a man who didn't love me and didn't care about me

a man who was using me for an easy life and dropped me when life wasn't as easy as he wanted it to be

a violent thug who was abusive to me and my son

a man who was embarrasing to be with in public because he often belittled people and liked to 'loudly' make nasty comments about people

the negative atmosphere that was in my home when he was around

the lonely feeling that I had because he never wanted to spend time with me, preferring instead to go out with friends

the headaches and physical pains that have mysteriously vanished since he left

28 lbs in weight

his collection of 'junk' that was all around the house


I have also gained so much/font]

My self esteem

happiness and a new enthusiasm for my life

my relationship with my kids

a fantastic new job and new friends

a more relaxed way of life

time to do things I enjoy

time to spend with my family

a new social life that is much more fun

pride in myself and my appearance

a sense of achievement and satisfaction with my life


There is more, but I am sure you get the idea.


So all in all, I have gained far more than I have lost and I now accept that him leaving was good for me.  When it happened I was devastated and never thought I would eventually feel like this.  But I do!  I still get down days, but the good days are more and more frequent now.  Thanks to everyone on these boards who are so supportive 

[mywifecrazy]

Lost a friend; but when his choice was to pursue her and disregard me, was that really a friend?

Didn’t lose a brother, though she tried to lure him, too.

My God! Another person on here with an EERILY similar story!

My uBPDxw jumped in bed with my X friend and neighbor. No he was NEVER my friend. He showed his true colors. She also made passes at my brother. Who didn't know or just didn't act on it.

These people make me sick    

[Narellan]

My best friend of 20 years and ex BPD had this flirtatious thing going on the whole time. She told me she didn't like him, bagged him and tried to split us up the whole time we were together. He ditched me and leant on her. They both bagged me and supported each other, sending intimate photos etc. I got rid of them both from my life. A month later they've deleted each other off FB, so it appears that is over. A couple of days ago my exBPD starts messaging my sister ended up abusing her.

I'm assuming everything he does is to get a reaction from me. He can't stand the NC.

Very hurtful stuff.

[Boss302]

Honestly, my marriage was over LONG before I left my BPDx - probably ten years before - so I lost nothing.

Based on the other posts, I'm counting my blessings!

[mywifecrazy]

What did I lose?

My balls!

Happy to report that I've got them back... . I missed not having them for 20 FREAKING years

[fromheeltoheal]

My naivety, my passivity and a thousand bucks.  Best personal development seminar I've ever been to, it was worth it.

[Emelie Emelie]

I lost my love and my best friend.  My sense of safety and security.  Self esteem.  Trust in relationships.  Trust in myself and my ability to make good decisions.  The respect of people in my life when I went back to him.  Contentedness.  Optimism.  Happiness.

[NewMom]

What did I lose?

My balls!

Happy to report that I've got them back... . I missed not having them for 20 FREAKING years

Had to smile at this 

I was always given the impression that I could do nothing, was good for nothing, was incapable, too ill (I've got epilepsy), too dependant.  Now, after 18 yrs of so working on me like that so that I'd - of course unconsciously - become more dependant so I wouldn't leave him, I am on my own, with our 7mo old daughter, keeping her safe, happy and fed, making sure the apartment is cleaned, working on my translations, going to T and self-help groups.

So I guess what I ALSO lost was this unbelivable feeling of incapability.  And to be honest I'm glad I finally lost that!

And yes, Infared, we really should all get some coffee 

[GlitterBug]

My heart. And trust. That's what I lost.

Oh yeah and my parents, sister, best friend, other mutual acquaintance friends, my regular girls night drinks, my social circle.

I lost myself.

I lost 'me' to.

I'm inclined to think that is in some way worse than the loss of an external relationship. How do you search for something we are all supposed to me so affirmed in?

I'm still looking for 'me'.

I hope you find 'you' x

[Inside]

Lost a friend; but when his choice was to pursue her and disregard me, was that really a friend?

Didn’t lose a brother, though she tried to lure him, too.

My God! Another person on here with an EERILY similar story!

My uBPDxw jumped in bed with my X friend and neighbor. No he was NEVER my friend. He showed his true colors. She also made passes at my brother. Who didn't know or just didn't act on it.

These people make me sick   

Yah, my married-forever friend and long-time beer buddy…  She’d constantly track us down, then come-on to him.  Eventually he stopped responding to my texts …and I next get to see them skipping down a main street sidewalk holding hands and grinning as our larger group of friends sat baffled and appalled.  Made me sick  

Her game was to keep me on a string, without seeing my friends -- though she didn’t skip a beat with hers.  So I never knew where our ‘relationship’ stood.  I remember several comments about her from my ... friend, so I knew what his intensions were.  So, he propositions her – and she declines, because ‘he’s married.’  He’s ashamed of himself …and has backed out of our friends network.  I’ve not spoken or texted him for a year.  If he had not gone behind my back, I’d get with him an explain BPD …but I’m still pissed.  And, if her goal was to pick off one of my friends, she did!

…had a cabin for the weekend, not far from my brother’s place, so stopped in to see him on the way there.  She’s giving him the eyes, and he’s trying not to respond.  The next night, Saturday, we’d drank heavy, but she was fixated on my brother – demanding ‘we have him over.’  Her excuse being, she wants to ‘recommend him to a friend of hers’ but needs to ‘get to know him better first.’  ‘This is our time,’ I tried to get across… and after giving up trying to reach him, begging I give her his phone number… she didn’t want to be touched.  So, it became one of ‘those BPD Nights,’ them sulking over who-knows-what – and you, laying there wondering - What the heck?

After describing her ways to my brother, he was solid – prettymuch ignoring her from then on.  So, I maintained a brother - and lost a ‘friend.’ 

[Infared]

Inside... .

yeah... and the pwBPD ALWAYS has to be in a secure relationship whilst she is out hunting (in your home or someone else's) for "more".

They cannot be alone for a minute... .

I was an idiot to get involve with mine... . she was living with a guy and cheating on him with a really "strange" married guy (with three kids I might add)... . (he looked like Ronald McDonald... . I kid you not). I was in an occasional work situation with her and Ronnie Mac (did not know the live-in and she was not in any other circles of mine, just this springtime weekend work thing) and I catch on to her action (now this woman was young and a very attractive 5'10" strawberry blonde that weighed about 110lbs)... . and I get wise that she is messin with this Ronald dude and I am just observing... thinking: NO WAY?... . she is HOT... this makes no sense.  Now... . I was not looking for anything. I was single and just doing my surfin, photography, working groove... . She was quite a bit younger than me, too... . but I just get kind of curious and entertained... . I have no intentions. None. So over the period of two springs (2 years)... I get kind of friendly with her... . query at one point and she admits that I am correct with my perceptions. Explains the there in NO relationship left with the person she is living with and I ":)UFUS" believe her  (Yeah RIGHT... . had I know I was going to become that guy in 6 years... I would have run like hell)... .

So I am being a rescuer and a father figure, saying... . honey... . what are you doing. You are young, attractive an have a really fun personality... . what the hell are you doing with Ronnie Mac (this guy was off the charts creepy... . but did that GIANT RED FLAG     STOP ME... . NOO!    ).

Of course, one thing leads to another and she ends up on the back of my motorcycle and blah... blah... blah... .

We are friends for a good while... . I REALLY did not rush into this. (mind you she is still living with this guy and "NOW" I am sure that he has a clue and is suffering like crazy... but I have no way to know this then... . duh... I believe her... . GOD was I manipulated like putty)... so eventually we have our "moment" and I try to flush this out... . I am like wait... whoah... . you are living with someone... . I am not dating you day-one unless you are out on your own away from your ex and Ronnie Mac. (Ronnie ends up wanting to have a threesome as he is hot for me too... . but that never happens... . although 4-years later he stalks us... . but I digress).  

I week later I am helping her move into her own apt.  Rescue... Rescue... . Help Life Guard! To my knowledge (which now I know is totally laughable) she never is near either one of these men again. God I am dumb and trusting.

She lives with me for 5 years and does the EXACT same thing, lying to her parents, step parents, me, him, her therapist (that I begged her to get)... . what a trip. Just up and moves out a week before Christmas saying there is no one... . Of course that just happens to be the moment that she is sure she has HIM (new guy) hooked... got the safety and security of me and our home till she is sure the hook is set deep  and then off she goes... . him hero me villain... it happened in an instant.  Never knew what hit me. Completely calculating, cold and heartless. Lied and lied and lied. Damn near killed me.

Inside... . yours was doing her sport hunting REALLY close to home so she must be super insecure and sick.  I can relate and although your pain must be great... . you can get better and move forward. Use all of the tools here.

[mywifecrazy]

I week later I am helping her move into her own apt.  Rescue... Rescue... . Help Life Guard! To my knowledge (which now I know is totally laughable) she never is near either one of these men again. God I am dumb and trusting.

Don't feel bad I'm probably the only FREAKING idiot that was MANIPULATED into helping a BPD PHSYCHO move …... . TWICE

I helped her move out of her apartment that she had with a boyfriend when I met her and 20 yrs later I helped her move out of our house when I caught her in bed with the neighbor. She was lying saying it was a one time MISTAKE and she needed to get out on her own to clear her head... . With all due respect, I am King of the Idiots!   

[woodsposse]

I week later I am helping her move into her own apt.  Rescue... Rescue... . Help Life Guard! To my knowledge (which now I know is totally laughable) she never is near either one of these men again. God I am dumb and trusting.

Don't feel bad I'm probably the only FREAKING idiot that was MANIPULATED into helping a BPD PHSYCHO move …... . TWICE

I helped her move out of her apartment that she had with a boyfriend when I met her and 20 yrs later I helped her move out of our house when I caught her in bed with the neighbor. She was lying saying it was a one time MISTAKE and she needed to get out on her own to clear her head... . With all due respect, I am King of the Idiots!   

Oh... . don't feel so down on yourself.  I went through 5 moves with mine.  The first time, we moved in together to our first apartment.  Then about a year or so later, when the arguments got really bad and I caught her lying and setting up to meet some dude for the weekend - we broke up and she moved out.

Actually, it was abit brilliant on my part how I did it.  I told her one of has to leave.  Either she can stay in the apartment and I'll move, or she can move.  There was no way she could afford the apartment by herself... . so she moved out.

Then about 6 months later, I let her move back in.

Then about 6-8 months later, she moved back out.

Then a few months later, back in.

Then back out.

Then back again - we get married - stay "together" for 13 years, buy a house... . then she moves out.

I think the only reason we lasted the 13 years is because I ended up getting custody of my kids and we co-parented them.  Once the last kid was getting ready to fly the coop... . so was she.  By then, the economy was so crap and I was stuggling to just keep the house.  It was only then did she decide to actually get off her ass and get a job.

But it wasn't to help us keep the house - it was so she could start to build what she needed for another life.  I still hung on as long as I could hoping that whatever was the issue could be resolved.  I mean, I had close to 20 years invested.

What a shame and sham.

[gettingoverit]

Inside... .

yeah... and the pwBPD ALWAYS has to be in a secure relationship whilst she is out hunting (in your home or someone else's) for "more".

They cannot be alone for a minute... .

She lives with me for 5 years and does the EXACT same thing, lying to her parents, step parents, me, him, her therapist (that I begged her to get)... . what a trip. Just up and moves out a week before Christmas saying there is no one... . Of course that just happens to be the moment that she is sure she has HIM (new guy) hooked... got the safety and security of me and our home till she is sure the hook is set deep  and then off she goes... . him hero me villain... it happened in an instant.  Never knew what hit me. Completely calculating, cold and heartless. Lied and lied and lied. Damn near killed me.

Inside... . yours was doing her sport hunting REALLY close to home so she must be super insecure and sick.  I can relate and although your pain must be great... . you can get better and move forward. Use all of the tools here.

You got it. Same thing happened to me. My ex took a break for 12 days, sleeping in my house (in another room), saying she needed her space mean while the little wh0re is secretly going out with the neighbour until she knows she has her hooks set deep, then proceeds to rip me to shreds. I also experienced the lie after lie after lie. It almost killed me too, but after being over three years out, I can honesty say the one thing I finally lost was the biggest moocher and pain in my ass. Now that is a great thing! 

[Infared]

My Wife Crazy

Woodsposse

The bottom line is ... . the self-centeredness. Total and complete.

Mine, when she moved out of our townhouse on the river a week before Christmas... .

Right before this she got the first bonus of her life (never told me of course cause its hot and heavy with some guy behind my back... . but that way she could run off with her new hunk).   I had paid for EVeRYTHING ... . selflessly. She couldn't be in our relationship and contribute... . She saw the windfall as a way to deceive and satisfy her selfish needs. God what a low life. You guys would be proud of me... . I DID NOT help her move... . I just knew something wasn't right... . I just had no proof. I just made sure her Mom came with her when she moved and I got the hell out of there. She hardly took anything I guess her underpanties were really on fire    Her Mom loved me... I can't even guess what she was filling her Mom's ear with.  God these people are sick. These women go thru peoples lives like train wrecks leaving devastation everywhere.

I am not a suspicious guy, you know... trusting faithful... (well... . NOT ANY MORE!)... These women just look at that as an opportunity. Shame on them.

[woodsposse]

My Wife Crazy

Woodsposse

The bottom line is ... . the self-centeredness. Total and complete.

Mine, when she moved out of our townhouse on the river a week before Christmas... .

Right before this she got the first bonus of her life (never told me of course cause its hot and heavy with some guy behind my back... . but that way she could run off with her new hunk).   I had paid for EVeRYTHING ... . selflessly. She couldn't be in our relationship and contribute... . She saw the windfall as a way to deceive and satisfy her selfish needs. God what a low life. You guys would be proud of me... . I DID NOT help her move... . I just knew something wasn't right... . I just had no proof. I just made sure her Mom came with her when she moved and I got the hell out of there. She hardly took anything I guess her underpanties were really on fire    Her Mom loved me... I can't even guess what she was filling her Mom's ear with.  God these people are sick. These women go thru peoples lives like train wrecks leaving devastation everywhere.

I am not a suspicious guy, you know... trusting faithful... (well... . NOT ANY MORE!)... These women just look at that as an opportunity. Shame on them.

I finally had gotten to the point (intellectually) where I knew after we split and she came back wanting to "talk" that whatever truths she shared with me that it was only the tip of the iceberg.  I couldn't prove it, but I know it with all of my being.  And that was really hard to let go of - the not knowing.

But then again, on the other hand, a previous s/o I made the mistake of pressing and questioning all the stuff I eventually never really wanted to know (even though it was over 25 years ago, if I allow it it can still mess up my day pretty badly).

People make mistakes (or in some cases... . they make 'on purposes'.  Having gone through everything I went through with my (now) ex wife, and previous relationships... . I swore during all my ruminating nights that if I could go back in time and break it off with her completely after the first major conflict (like catching her cheating on me)... . I would.  And if I'm in a relationship going forward and the same thing happens (cause it can happen personality disorder or not)... . I would take no excuses and just be out of there.

Unfortunately this is what happened in my recent r/s with my (now) ex GF.  Some things came up which were very very very similar to what I had seen before.  I had no choice and was out the door.  yes, a vast part of me wanted to "forgive" and make up... . but I knew I couldn't do that and stay true to my own healing.

Just because I'm healing doesn't mean that someone else is on the exact same page as I am.  I'm living my life, they are living theirs.  As long as I keep my stuff straight - I can't be too concerned what someone else is going to do. I can't control them.

I have my boundaries pretty well defined - and not jsut out of anger or bitterness (which is what I ahve been struggling to get to).  I just know that at the drop of a dime I will walk away from just about anyone if the situation isn't right.  And I won't feel bad about it. Not again.

[findingmyselfagain]

I thought I lost my sexy soulmate, a (her) daughter, a (her) family, a dream wedding and a dream life... . I invested so much love thinking that she loved me the same way I loved her. She was divorced twice at a young age but she played the victim card very well and seemed to want something better. I also wanted a family, and we had a nice one for a while. I spent a lot of time with her brother and her parents thinking that we were all going to be a family. Losing her baby daughter and her family from my life made things that much more difficult.

Losing all of that was extremely hurtful and depressing. I was reeling for years afterward.

But, it forced me to look at myself and the role I played. Why would I take such a big risk with my heart so quickly? Why did I let the red flags go in light of the "passion" and promise of the glow of love?

I saw some of my childhood issues in all of the mess... . growing up too fast, difficult mother, lack of dating and relationship experience, also just barely plugging away at life when I met my ex... . I just ate the romance up like candy.

Now I believe love is much more than passion, feelings, or the "romance" that is sold to us by society and the media. It's a simple, genuine, mature commitment. True love and true intimacy grow over time with someone we are comfortable with and who treats us with respect.

What did I really lose? A life of hell on earth and a never-ending battle for peace and acceptance (kind of like what I strove to get from my mother as a child).

[Tausk]

By doing the necessary work in learning about the disorder, moving through the pain, learning about my self, and healing some of my spiritual wounds from my childhood, I managed to lose some of the hurt, baggage, and shame that I have carried and which has handicapped me for most all my life. 

Or another way of putting it... . loss of much of my false self, and instead implementation of partial substitution of my genuine inner child that heretofore was too ashamed and scared to be seen and vulnerable.

Or, in other words... . Addition of the real me through extraction and exorcism of my interaction xgfwBPD (like a rotten tooth or a possessive banshee).

[Inside]

Inside... .

yeah... and the pwBPD ALWAYS has to be in a secure relationship whilst she is out hunting (in your home or someone else's) for "more".

They cannot be alone for a minute... .

I think I’ve come across that …you’d think the more secure they felt, the less reason they’d have to hunt.  I suspect the more secure they feel – the more fearful they are of losing that security, thus undermine it.

  [She] Explains the there in NO relationship left with the person she is living with and I ":)UFUS" believe her  (Yeah RIGHT... . had I known I was going to become that guy in 6 years... I would have run like hell)... .  

Unreal…  We work so hard to become ‘that guy,’ only for them to instantly disregard us - and begin searching for another!  And while we’re jumping through their hoops … their real attention is elsewhere ~  Actually, I’ve kinda been avoiding this ‘L3’ zone – cuz it makes me angry.  But having you remind me of some of this crap also helps solidify my now six months of NC.  Thanks!

(Ronnie ends up wanting to have a threesome as he is hot for me too... . but that never happens... . although 4-years later he stalks us... . but I digress)

-- still laughing …

Inside... . yours was doing her sport hunting REALLY close to home so she must be super insecure and sick.  I can relate and although your pain must be great... . you can get better and move forward. Use all of the tools here.

Thanks for pointing that out, Infared.  Pain and anger can be tools, too.  And though I feel I’ve processed the pain … a little anger is likely justified.  So… should I try to reconnect with my ‘lost buddy’ (ol’ beer buddy)?  Or continue to avoid the entire scene... ? 

[Inside]

Now I believe love is much more than passion, feelings, or the "romance" that is sold to us by society and the media. It's a simple, genuine, mature commitment. True love and true intimacy grow over time with someone we are comfortable with and who treats us with respect.  

Findingmyselfagain ~ perfect… 

[Infared]

Now I believe love is much more than passion, feelings, or the "romance" that is sold to us by society and the media. It's a simple, genuine, mature commitment. True love and true intimacy grow over time with someone we are comfortable with and who treats us with respect.  

Findingmyselfagain ~ perfect… 

There it is. Finding that is not easy.chasing red flag wavers is not the path

... oh... and thanks for the visual of Ronnie Mac! LOL!

[mywifecrazy]

(Ronnie ends up wanting to have a threesome as he is hot for me too... . but that never happens... . although 4-years later he stalks us... . but I digress)

-- still laughing …

I am LMFAO! 

[mywifecrazy]

Now I believe love is much more than passion, feelings, or the "romance" that is sold to us by society and the media. It's a simple, genuine, mature commitment. True love and true intimacy grow over time with someone we are comfortable with and who treats us with respect.

This is the BEST thing ever posted on here! WELL SAID.

But these 3 remain... . Faith, Hope and Love. But the greatest of these is Love!

[mywifecrazy]

People make mistakes (or in some cases... . they make 'on purposes'. 

There are NO mistakes. Unless someone put a gun to their heads everyone's improprieties are ON PURPOSES. They pull the "I made a mistake" CRAP when they are afraid to take responsibility for their actions. The only mistake they made was getting to careless and getting caught!

[Infared]

GLAD I COULD GIVE YOU GUYS A LAUGH!

If I had a photo of Ronnie Mac (actually The Real RM is an improvement over this guy), I would post it. But... healthily I do not.

We did have the police search his house and take all his guns (oh... and inform his wife and kids that he was stalking us!  )

I learned in therapy that I had a tendency to make bad choices in my life. (I liked to live on the edge and have excitement... . well... . we can see how well that panned out!)  

The living on the edge thing was useful when I climbed mountains and surfed waves all over the planet... but... it wasn't a good way to approach a long term relationship.      :'( :'(

No one told me?

... . was this REALLY my life... . LOL!

(I SWEAR every last bit of that story is absolutely TRUE!)

I thought this was pathetic... . but you all have me laughing!

[Narellan]

Ive really enjoyed reading these posts

Especially  the 3some story with ronnie mac hahahahahaha

Its good to laugh sometimes in the face of everything were going through... .

[GhostDad]

Ive lost (so far) my;

4 children

Every friend (but one)

In laws

Home

Every thing inside the house

Reputation

Freedom (jailed briefly)

Dignity

Basically, I give up. I've called an attorney and instructed him to file for the divorce and to push it through, whatever the cost, whatever I must sign off on. I simply want out at any cost. I want it over with. This past year has absolutely consumed every facet of my being. And it's done nothing but take and not moved even an inch forward.

The kids will one day be old enough to self determine. And when that day comes for them, I'll be here if they choose to see me.

The continued pursuit by my soon to be ex-BPDw, in aggressively seeking to have me criminally charged over technical violations of protective orders, is just simply too much risk to bear.

Until my children are removed from any and all orders of protection, I simply will not engage in any form of contact with them. It's been 9 months since the torrent of allegations were first unleashed.

Since that time, nothing has been proven. And yet, I'm treated like a criminal. She's effectively dehumanized me by smearing me to all whom I know.

So congratulations. You've won. I've fooled everyone for twenty four years only to be found out just 3 months after asking for a divorce. Sometimes it amazes me that I got away with it for so long!

And now, I'll simply walk away. Never to be heard from again. My inventory of what's left is just enough to start over. My health, career. Maybe I'll love again one day. Maybe even children again. I'd really love that, although I doubt it will ever happen. Right now, I just love solitude. Nobody to accommodate. I really like that.

Thanks for listening. I apologize for the length, but I'm devastated.

[Narellan]

Ghost dad. My boys are just now realising how bad their dads behaviour is. They couldn't see it when they were living with it. But now they ask me why I stayed for so long. They are fiercely protective of me. They love both of us, but are so glad they only spend a couple of nights a fortnight with him.

Can you write your kids a letter of your love for them, and that what you are doing by staying away is for them. To make life easier for them. Without bagging her, let them see from your heart how much you love them.

During the divorce proceedings you can ask for access to them if you want to be in their life at this stage. She may push for supervised access, but that might be better for you than nothing? I really feel your pain.

[kba1969]

GhostDad, hang in there!  Your doing the right thing!  I filed for divorce in my marriage back in 2007.  My daughter was 2.  We set up a parenting schedule right in the beginning of the divorce in which I had my daughter from Sunday night til Friday every week.  We made it clear to my x that she would need to work and get a job (get her feet on the ground).  During the beginning of the divorce she accused me of hitting her and I was arrested.  I can still remember standing in front of the judge in handcuffs and ankle shackles.  I thought there was no chance in the divorce.

     That was almost 7 years ago and $175,000 later!  I live in my marital home with my daughter, she sees her mom on three weekends per month.  My x wife has nothing, she spent the $100,000 I gave her and lives in a hotel! 

     I would recommend keeping contact with your kids and do it through supervised visitation, it protects YOU.  Things will improve and your kids will see the big picture some day.  My daughter is 9 and figured it out, you should see how good she feels when she comes home on Sundays.  Her home is here with me and she sees her mothers disfunction.  Take care of you, stay strong and the rest will work itself out

[Mutt]

This thread has reached its 4-page limit. This is a worthwhile topic, and you are welcome to start a new thread if you'd like.