I don't want to be brave anymore...

[The Mrs]

It's taken me 2 days to even wrap my mind around reading or posting on this board again.

Intellectually, I know this is legal posturing and I always knew in the deep, dark corners of my soul that this was how my DH would play the game, but it's still shocking and it still hurts.

Given that I wouldn't gift a 90 day extension to the discovery timeline, they have filed for a 90 day extension as well as a 90 day stay citing there are no Irreconcilable Differences and that the marriage is reconcilable. 

Furthermore, we finally received their initial Answer to the divorce complaint.  I already knew DH was going to try and claim that he brought huge value to the marriage, given that he already owned a home and had started a business 8 years before we married (I was 25 and he was 31 when we got married), and should therefore be given more than a 50-50 split of our acquired assets during the course of our 25 year marriage, even though everything has been commingled.

What was a total blindside, cowardly, BS, underhanded surprise is that they are claiming there is a prenuptial agreement still in effect.  I did sign one but it was torn up a year into the marriage... . but now, 25 years later, I don't even know if that was the original one that was torn up.  He did tell his oldest daughter (technically my step daughter, but I never refer her to as that, I've been in her life and raised her since she was 6) that he tore it up for me and it no longer exists and she says she'll attest to that.  But still... .

I also learned that I am not the sole beneficiary on a very significant life insurance policy, as I had been led to believe for decades... . it is me and our 3 girls, yet just a few weeks ago he was sending letters out to the family saying if anything happens to him to take a good, long look at me!

There's more, it's just too ridiculous and complicated... .

But if he is given "credit" for even half of it, I'm screwed... .

[ForeverDad]

No, you're not screwed.  It just feels that way.  And that's how he wants you to feel.  He's waging a propaganda war.  He figures that if he throws hundreds of spitballs, then surely something must stick.  Accept that this is his overwhelming sense of entitlement and keep moving.  Let's take it piece by piece since clearly the whole is too overwhelming.

With everything I write, keep in mind the negotiation principle: Ask for more than what you think you'll end up walking away with.  As in, ask for the moon and hope to get a decent slice.  His mangled, entitled version is: Ask for the moon and expect to get it all.

He can make a motion for a 90 day extension, well, he very likely could get an extension - courts routinely grant extensions and continuances the first couple tries - but maybe the judge will set a more reasonable limit of 30 or 60 days.  Your lawyer should work to keep any extension to a minimum and also ask that only a few complicated things get the extension, the simpler stuff ought to be handed over promptly.  But judges don't like complicated structures and so it might just be a single extension for everything.

His claiming the marriage is reconcilable is probably overreach or more likely a delay tactic.  I might be wrong but I think all it takes is for ONE of you to state it's irreconcilable and it is.

A prenup that was torn up, I guess the divorce lawyers would have to slog that one out in court.  For all I know maybe the lawyers that wrote it up way back when might have copies of the official prenup in their files.  I recall reading somewhere that for a prenup to even be valid in most states then both parties needed to have legal representation from different lawyers.  Did that prenup meet that standard?

If he owns his insurance policy, then likely he has a right to pick his own beneficiaries.  During the divorce process, from filing to final decree, he might be restricted from changing it, but that's a specific matter that your state and lawyer can determine what applies and if there are any restriction on him changing beneficiaries.  If he lied to you in years past about the beneficiaries, I don't know how much your court might care about that.

Remember, this is a long term marriage.  Most if not all courts assign that factor great weight.  It will be almost impossible for him to walk away with it all - unless you let him do it.

[Nope]

Good on you that you know this is posturing! You will need to talk to your lawyer about the prenuptial agreement and what your state's laws specifically say about that. In some states, a prenupt automatically becomes void after a certain number of years. You can have your L submit a request for production to get a copy of this alleged prenupt. How he responds to that demand will tell you how seriously to take this.  

Delay, delay, delay. That is what he is doing and will continue to do hoping it will wear you down. Hang in there!

[The Mrs]

Just received word that in addition to hearing his sides motion on June 11 th for the extension and the stay the court has also scheduled the first Status Conference at the same time. 

I guess this is one of the benefits of living in a small town... . things don't get too back logged.  I just had him served on April 11th. 

If in fact the prenup still exists, then my entire 25 year marriage was based on a fraudulent and deceptive understanding.  If it doesn't, doesn't he lose some sort of credibility for having stated that it does?

Also, he claims he brought all this value to the marriage and he should be given a bigger piece of the remaining pie.  Well, what about all the $$ he lost in stupid investments and impulsive stock purchases?  Did he just lose community dollars but he's managed to preserve separate $$?  Sort that one out for me, Your Honor, after everything has been commingled for decades and everything he touched definitely did not come up smelling like roses!

He wants his pie, he wants me to bake it, serve it to him, clean up the mess, and go home hungry!

Thank you for your support and sound words... . it's all just such a slap in the face.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised.  He's consistent in divorce, as in marriage. 

[KateCat]

He wants his pie, he wants me to bake it, serve it to him, clean up the mess, and go home hungry!

Hey, he's generous enough to leave you with intelligence and a sense of humor!

I hope he's in for just as big a shock under the laws of your state as he would be in mine. . . . What a dreadful experience for you.

[ForeverDad]

Another truism in divorces... . The one behaving poorly seldom gets more than minimal consequences and the one behaving properly seldom gets more than minimal credit.

I didn't write that to discourage you, no, rather it was to prepare you for court where a lot of both the good and the bad get ignored.  One of court's goals is, when the divorce is finally final, that the two spouses haven't become enemies but can let go and move on in their lives.  That works for most divorced couples.  But there is a subset of divorces where there is high conflict and court can't manage to succeed in making nice.  That was mine, ours and probably will be yours.  Radical Acceptance.  It is what it is, not what we want it to be.  Be prepared in advance that the court's usual playbook, or at least the first few chapters, won't work with people like our ex-spouses, knowing that helps us when the going gets rough and when the case seems to move at a snail's pace.

A quick overview, he will try to sabotage, discourage, obstruct and delay, but he can't stop it.  He can't stop it.  Court will, to a greater or lesser extent, figure him out.  Without custody issues, the divorce is basically about financial issues, relatively straightforward.  It's very likely he is trying to hide money too.  If needed, the court will listen to the experts, Special Masters and forensic accountants.

Meanwhile, just batten down the hatches, drink some hot cocoa, watch some relaxing movies and weather the storm.  In time it will pass and the sun will shine again.

[KateCat]

Without custody issues, the divorce is basically about financial issues, relatively straightforward.

My state, which is a sort of "flexible" community property state has a set of something like six criteria for division of community property. The criteria might backfire on a litigant with a long marriage and a narcissistic sense of financial entitlement. If, for instance, your husband wants to insist on his financial prowess and your relative weakness, the court might agree with him that he's a great consistent generator of income and that therefore everything placed before it as community property is to be given a 60%/40% split in your favor, as your future may be more uncertain.

I must not understand where your husband is headed with his arguments, as 25 years of partnership is a long, long time.  

[cobaltblue]

This is just smoke and mirrors meant to distract and frustrate you and wear you down.

[Boss302]

It's taken me 2 days to even wrap my mind around reading or posting on this board again.

Intellectually, I know this is legal posturing and I always knew in the deep, dark corners of my soul that this was how my DH would play the game, but it's still shocking and it still hurts.

Given that I wouldn't gift a 90 day extension to the discovery timeline, they have filed for a 90 day extension as well as a 90 day stay citing there are no Irreconcilable Differences and that the marriage is reconcilable.  

Furthermore, we finally received their initial Answer to the divorce complaint.  I already knew DH was going to try and claim that he brought huge value to the marriage, given that he already owned a home and had started a business 8 years before we married (I was 25 and he was 31 when we got married), and should therefore be given more than a 50-50 split of our acquired assets during the course of our 25 year marriage, even though everything has been commingled.

What was a total blindside, cowardly, BS, underhanded surprise is that they are claiming there is a prenuptial agreement still in effect.  I did sign one but it was torn up a year into the marriage... . but now, 25 years later, I don't even know if that was the original one that was torn up.  He did tell his oldest daughter (technically my step daughter, but I never refer her to as that, I've been in her life and raised her since she was 6) that he tore it up for me and it no longer exists and she says she'll attest to that.  But still... .

I also learned that I am not the sole beneficiary on a very significant life insurance policy, as I had been led to believe for decades... . it is me and our 3 girls, yet just a few weeks ago he was sending letters out to the family saying if anything happens to him to take a good, long look at me!

There's more, it's just too ridiculous and complicated... .

But if he is given "credit" for even half of it, I'm screwed... .

Well, first off, I'm going to say that you're NOT screwed. A high conflict divorce is a war, and if wars were won with the first battles, we'd be singing "God Save The Queen" before every baseball game.

My BPDx won the initial battles of our war too... . and lost all the last ones. The good news is that if your husband IS BPD, he's likely to prove himself to be his own worst enemy through all this. These folks are unstable

Hang in there.

[david]

KateCat makes a great point. If ex says he is the breadwinner and you are not capable than you should be the one taken care of after such a long marriage. Let him say how great he is on the stand and how terrible you are. Than after he puts his foot in his mouth enough just turn it around in your favor. My xBPDw likes to play the victim role. Reverse the role at the right time.

My ex insisted we had 1.2 million in assets during our equitable distribution. She claimed I took everything and she wanted things split 50/50. The valuation was totally ridiculous but I agreed with her valuation. I then agreed to a 50/50 split. I then showed the evidence that ex had all the things she claimed I took. I simply stated she could keep all the things and just hand me $600,000 in cash. Ex even had her lawyer sucked into the bs so when I showed ex had the things she claimed I had things were quickly resolved in my favor. Her atty did not want to go in front of a judge.

                                                                                                                             

This could only have happened because ex dragged things out with delays. That gave me the time to find the proof I needed. I was only able to do that after I was detached enough to see things in a clearer light. At first the delays had me discouraged. Detaching helped me reframe her narrative in my favor. I was told a long time ago by an atty that the first person that speaks usually loses. Let him speak. Document it all and figure out what the courts in your area are interested in. Then find what you need to find to turn things in your favor.

Document everything you can. You never know what will become important. It will depend on what stbx will say and do as things progress.

Figure out the details of the prenup and how the law regards that in your state. That is a legal issue that a good atty should be able to help you with. Tearing up a paper doesn't normally void a contract. It may be helpful to get him to acknowledge he tore it up. That can be done by email or recording a conversation. That may take some legal advice or it may not be important at all.