What made me such a self-loathing loser?

[Depression = 72% of members]

Sometimes I feel deep shame.  Why would I be attracted to a borderline monster?  Like a fly, I was trapped in her web for FIFTEEN YEARS!

Of course, this was mainly due to the kids.  Nevertheless, what made me such a self-loathing loser?

What kind of a man would put up with constant abuse and shame?

Boderline demons don't need help.  They'll never change.  It's the people who love these devils who need to see a shrink.  Are we mindless gluttons for punishment?

After my upcoming divorce, I plan to castrate myself with a warm spoon.  The ordeal will be far less painful than my failed marriage.

[poor old smith]

Sometimes I feel deep shame.  Why would I be attracted to a borderline monster?  Like a fly, I was trapped in her web for FIFTEEN YEARS!

Of course, this was mainly due to the kids.  Nevertheless, what made me such a self-loathing loser?

What kind of a man would put up with constant abuse and shame?

Boderline demons don't need help.  They'll never change.  It's the people who love these devils who need to see a shrink.  Are we mindless gluttons for punishment?

After my upcoming divorce, I plan to castrate myself with a warm spoon.  The ordeal will be far less painful than my failed marriage.

[AwakenedOne]

Hey Smith,

I was with my wife 4 years. I stayed because of the wedding vows which I took seriously. This is honorable. I see it as honorable that you stayed to raise your kids also. As far as being attracted to someone with BPD there wasn't a warning sign on them. You just find things out over time, that's life right? When I found out something was wrong we were already married. I tried with all my heart and effort to make it work still. I wasn't perfect or even near but I know I tried. I was attracted to somebody who seemed like a great person and a good match and you probably did the same. I'd just go easy on yourself. I don't consider myself a self loathing loser. I consider that I should of taken more time to know her before we got married. I know I tried my best on everything and I can sleep at night knowing I did. I'm not sure my ex can say the same. Hang in there man.

Peace,

AO

[trappedinlove]

poor old smith,

You sound very resentful and hurt and I'm sure you're experiencing a lot of pain.

However, you totally paint your ex black.

It usually doesn't help.

From my own perspective I can only share with you that my D18 was diagnosed with BPD traits a couple years ago.

I saw her deepest demons.

She told me once after a fight with her mother that she has dreamed of grabbing a kitchen knife and stabbing her mother in her sleep.

She had no remorse about that.

I saw emptiness in her eyes.  A cold report about a dream she had and I freaked out that it didn't bother her.

I was terrified she might be able to actually do it.

But she grew over it.

She made so much progress since then and all aspects of her life.

And I just can't think of her as a monster, or as en evil demon.

Sorry, I just can't.

She is a human being that is dealing with a mental disorder.

She did some awful things to the people close to her, including myself.

But she knows she can improve herself and she is working her way up.

TIL

[poor old smith]

poor old smith,

You sound very resentful and hurt and I'm sure you're experiencing a lot of pain.

However, you totally paint your ex black.

It usually doesn't help.

From my own perspective I can only share with you that my D18 was diagnosed with BPD traits a couple years ago.

I saw her deepest demons.

She told me once after a fight with her mother that she has dreamed of grabbing a kitchen knife and stabbing her mother in her sleep.

She had no remorse about that.

I saw emptiness in her eyes.  A cold report about a dream she had and I freaked out that it didn't bother her.

I was terrified she might be able to actually do it.

But she grew over it.

She made so much progress since then and all aspects of her life.

And I just can't think of her as a monster, or as en evil demon.

Sorry, I just can't.

She is a human being that is dealing with a mental disorder.

She did some awful things to the people close to her, including myself.

But she knows she can improve herself and she is working her way up.

TIL

I just hope she doesn't stick the kitchen knife in you.

Watch your back, my friend.

I wish you well.  I really do.  But even Ted Bundy had a "good side."  However, it wasn't enough to save the dozens of girls he killed.

All the best.  You're a victim of their "sickness" just like me.

I guess we're comrades in arms.

[Ihope2]

I think we need to take a good, hard look at ourselves too. Why do we have a high tolerance for innapropriate behaviour?  Why do we seem to attract such drama into our lives?  Why are we so used to being treated so badly?

Something to do with how we grew up?  What messages we got as children in our formative years?  What we came to believe our role was in a romantic relationship? 

Maybe we ourselves can't "do normal".  We have been so accustomed to the "extreme" side of the scale, that "normal" doesn't even register with us, it just leaves us feeling bored and numb?

Just some food for thought.  When you are in a calmer space, Charles L. Whitfield MD wrote some excellent books on how we become accustomed to dysfunctional and toxic relationships through our learning experiences in our family of origin.  And how to recognise this and start working on our own recovery towards healing ourselves and freeing ourselves from dysfunction and drama and toxic relationships. 

[Narellan]

They are not monsters. If so what does that say about us loving them and being with them for so long? They are struggling far worse than we ever will.

Poor old smith I'd like to encourage you to read through the resources and links on the top Of the boards for your own healing. Peace to you. You will find that when you can leave your anger behind and move on. 

[Indigo Sky]

Same here.

Work on yourself.

Live for you. It can happen.

[poor old smith]

I think we need to take a good, hard look at ourselves too. Why do we have a high tolerance for innapropriate behaviour?  Why do we seem to attract such drama into our lives?  Why are we so used to being treated so badly?

Something to do with how we grew up?  What messages we got as children in our formative years?  What we came to believe our role was in a romantic relationship? 

Maybe we ourselves can't "do normal".  We have been so accustomed to the "extreme" side of the scale, that "normal" doesn't even register with us, it just leaves us feeling bored and numb?

Just some food for thought.  When you are in a calmer space, Charles L. Whitfield MD wrote some excellent books on how we become accustomed to dysfunctional and toxic relationships through our learning experiences in our family of origin.  And how to recognise this and start working on our own recovery towards healing ourselves and freeing ourselves from dysfunction and drama and toxic relationships. 

That's exactly what I'm saying, my friend.

It takes two to tango.  We're also part of the Danse Macbre.

The problem with this site is that all blame falls on the victims.

The felons are given a complete pardon.

I guess that's called liberal self-blame logic.

God bless.

[trappedinlove]

The problem with this site is that all blame falls on the victims.

The felons are given a complete pardon.

I guess that's called liberal self-blame logic.

God bless.

You can blame "them" and this board as much as you like.

Go for it if it helps you, man.

The problem is that just blaming external entities for your pain puts you in place where you have no real control.

You can only control yourself and you can only change yourself.

So I don't waste my energy on blame.

I need it for me.

[Take2]

She made so much progress since then and all aspects of her life.

And I just can't think of her as a monster, or as en evil demon.

Sorry, I just can't.

She is a human being that is dealing with a mental disorder.

She did some awful things to the people close to her, including myself.

But she knows she can improve herself and she is working her way up.

It's hard at times for those of us who have gone thru the pain and abuse of a romantic r/s with someone who has BPD, to the point of almost needing to paint them black just to get thru our own pain (sound familiar?) - but reading the perspective of a parent whose child has this disorder is incredibly helpful in realizing that those with this disorder DO truly suffer from a mental disorder.  They are not demons or monsters despite their behavior which very often does suggest that they are.  I admit that it's this understanding though that kept me stuck for a very, very long time because I wound up feeling like I was the only one who truly understands my ex.  I still think that for the most part - but hey what do I know - maybe many of his ex's came to that same  conclusion.  

Yes, for those of us who stayed in any r/s that turned toxic and abusive, we do need to understand how we took part in the dysfunction.  Many of those with BPD won't get better.

That is a reality for many.  I suspect strongly that my ex will never change - he comes from a family that is extremely dysfunctional and extremely unwilling to accept the concept of having any psychological issues.  But every person and every situation, borderline or not, is unique... .  

[poor old smith]

The problem with this site is that all blame falls on the victims.

The felons are given a complete pardon.

I guess that's called liberal self-blame logic.

God bless.

You can blame "them" and this board as much as you like.

Go for it if it helps you, man.

The problem is that just blaming external entities for your pain puts you in place where you have no real control.

You can only control yourself and you can only change yourself.

So I don't waste my energy on blame.

I need it for me.

Dearest friend, and I mean that sincerely, borderline behavior is quite outrageous.

You're a victim.  You aren't the culprit.

Trust me.

Find someone worthy of your love.

[trappedinlove]

The problem with this site is that all blame falls on the victims.

The felons are given a complete pardon.

I guess that's called liberal self-blame logic.

God bless.

You can blame "them" and this board as much as you like.

Go for it if it helps you, man.

The problem is that just blaming external entities for your pain puts you in place where you have no real control.

You can only control yourself and you can only change yourself.

So I don't waste my energy on blame.

I need it for me.

Dearest friend, and I mean that sincerely, borderline behavior is quite outrageous.

So?

You're a victim.  You aren't the culprit.

Trust me.

I'm not sure I follow you logic... .

I may be a victim but I certainly have the power to help myself.

I don't need to be the culprit to take responsibility for helping myself.

Find someone worthy of your love.

Amen!

[poor old smith]

The problem with this site is that all blame falls on the victims.

The felons are given a complete pardon.

I guess that's called liberal self-blame logic.

God bless.

You can blame "them" and this board as much as you like.

Go for it if it helps you, man.

The problem is that just blaming external entities for your pain puts you in place where you have no real control.

You can only control yourself and you can only change yourself.

So I don't waste my energy on blame.

I need it for me.

Dearest friend, and I mean that sincerely, borderline behavior is quite outrageous.

So?

You're a victim.  You aren't the culprit.

Trust me.

I'm not sure I follow you logic... .

I may be a victim but I certainly have the power to help myself.

I don't need to be the culprit to take responsibility for helping myself.

Find someone worthy of your love.

Amen!

It's time for your tomentor to go.

Find another.

If you wish.

[poor old smith]

I'm in a strange place.  I'm ready for my divorce to go through tomorrow.  No crap.

So let me tell you the truth.

Borderlines will always come first.  They are more important than their spouses.  They are more important than their family.  And they are more important than their children.

In fact, the entire world exists just to keep them amused.  That's it.  Unfortunately, because they were born human black holes, the world isn't enough.

They will suck you dry.

Get out!

Get out!

Get out!

I'm not here to tell you falsehoods.  I'm giving you the bitter truth.

Flee from these cobras.

Run!

What are you waiting for?

You've been warned!

[poor old smith]

I'm very angry and bitter.  So this will be my last post for five days.

But I want to say this before I go.  If I had the fortitude, I would cut off my Johnson with a rusty saw.  Why?  I'm some dupe who got suckered by a black widow.  I don't deserve my sword.

Nevertheless, I hope I can find someone who loves me before I die.  And I hope she finds me while I still have my Johnson.  The odds are 50/50.

Good night and God bless.

I'll talk to you in five days.

[trappedinlove]

I'm very angry and bitter.  So this will be my last post for five days.

But I want to say this before I go.  If I had the fortitude, I would cut off my Johnson with a rusty saw.  Why?  I'm some dupe who got suckered by a black widow.  I don't deserve my sword.

Nevertheless, I hope I can find someone who loves me before I die.  And I hope she finds me while I still have my Johnson.  The odds are 50/50.

Good night and God bless.

I'll talk to you in five days.

Hang in there buddy.

This is tough, we know.

[Skip]

I'm not here to tell you falsehoods.  I'm giving you the bitter truth.

Flee from these cobras.

Run!

What are you waiting for?

You've been warned!

Poor old smith... .

This may feel a bit harsh - I'll ask that you trust that my heart is in the right place for you.

You all live under the same roof - every day.

Do you express this vitriol to your children about their mother? Do you show them in daily tension and fights? Or do you lie to them, instead?  :)o you think you cover it up and they don't see or feel it?  Or are you able to project a completely false reality to them?

What would any of this teach them?

You told your son "I told him to punch her right in the face and knock her out cold". True?  Or did you make this up?

What are you trying to teach us?  ":)o what I say, not what I do" is not a great teacher.  Maybe that's just me.  

I guess I'd like to know, what is your advice for you?  Isn't this what we should talk about?

Comparing all 18 million people with BPD and all the exs here that may have BPD or maybe just traits to Ted Bundy.  To call them murders.  Cobra's. Black widows. Black holes.  Psychopaths.  She-beast.  Malignant evil.  Is this healthy coping?  Is this what we all should do?  Shout into the wind?

How does that improve your life and the life of your kids?

I'm not expecting any helpful advice.  I just came here to vent.  I feel very isolated at the moment.  Thanks for listening.

Is it time to put the megahone down and ask some questions?

[foiles]

POS,

The question "why did I fall for and stay as long as I did with a person who abused me" became my source of strength. I don't think of it as blame. I think of it as becoming self-aware and responsible for my actions and my emotions. Ive seen some here who remain stuck in shame and anger (although anger was certainly a stage i needed to go through). I think I could have stayed the same and continued to repeat abusive relationships, but I refused to do that. Im pretty sure it was the old "I've finally hit rock bottom" that finally made me see that the only way out was to change myself. I can't change someone else. The only thing I COULD do was to change myself. Not the kind, caring part, but the part that allowed me to put myself there. I could have walked at any time; I could have established boundaries at any time. Why did I wait? The answer will free you.

It's the hard work i did to get to the root of my issues (everyone has them, right?) and change how I view and treat myself and relate to others that freed me from that shame. We don't mean to blame the victim, but to empower the victim. I'm not a victim any more. Yes, they abused us. And someone else's actions are never our fault. But our own actions can mitigate that by our response. My current (non) husband cant believe some of the stories he hears. Not about my BPDexbf, but how I put up with it- my lack of boundaries - because I am such a different person now. I wouldn't be if I didn't try to take the advice of people who came through this ordeal and are now 'at peace'.

I read somewhere that BPD is the bread and butter for counselors. But not the BPDs themselves, the nons. I went to a few different counselors, some good, some not so well educated in BPD. But there was always something I could take from them and the countless books I read that eventually led me to where I am, a happy person with boundaries that doesn't HAVE to be a victim.

This site isn't about them. It's about and for us. A certain amount of venting, searching, and education about BPD is normal. But eventually it has to be about educating ourselves about healthy relationships and how we can control our own lives. Otherwise we live in fear and every aspect of our lives revolve around them. They will still be in control, the hallmark of abuse.

I'm sorry you may feel that some blame the 'victim'. We were blamed so long for everything under the sun that the last thing we may want to hear is that we need work, too. It can be viewed as blame. Or one can take it as advice and encouragement to take back our lives. We have the ability to perceive it either way. And that will determine the outcome.

Every person on this site is at a different place in their healing. You had a long time with this person, and it's normal to feel anger and a host of other negative emotions. But it doesn't have to be that way forever. It's a process, a difficult one. But it can be done. When you say you want to chop off your ... . I find that very metamorphical. That you are ready to give up on life. Don't give up. We can't change the past, but we can direct our future.  But it does take self-reflection. Even people that haven't been through this stuff have to have that. Who said 'an unexamined life isn't worth living'? It may be a little strong but who doesn't need to do that? To me, it's pwBPD that rarely do -and they are never happy.

Take care, don't give up.

Foiles

[Tausk]

I've always been a big procrastinator.  Exams, bills, reports, work productsl... . I still have the recurrent nightmare that it's finals week and I have not gone to class and don't know where the exam is.  I say this because there's a study that shows that if you find students who are procrastinators on the first exam, they will say that they will change for the next exam, but the anxiety gets worse and the procrastination actually gets worse on the second exam.  

But if you take the students who procrastinated on the first exam, and you ask them to consciously forgive themselves for the procrastinating on the first exam, and then with that self forgiveness, they are able to move forward and procrastinate much less for the second exam.  

The power of self forgiveness.   So many of us have perfectionist or punitive parent schemas.  We are so hard on ourselves.  Being harder on ourselves after an interaction with a pwBPD only makes us more anxious, resentful, angry and fearful.   Resentful of the past, Angry at the present, and Fearful of the Future.  

But with forgiveness of ourselves, we find Acceptance of the Past, Love in the Present, and Faith in the Future.

Forgive ourselves.  We aren't perfect.  We have issues, but we have no intent for destruction.  And we are human/

And for the fact, our partners with BPD also did not intend to hurt us.  We fell in "love" because of the childlike innocence of our exes. The need to be needed.  Their desire to be good, which is so deep that they mirrored our good.   The intent for love, safety, and fulfillment of a fantasy.All the intent was good. And in the end, even if the acts by my exgfwBPD we destructive, her intent was justified in her mind, but the Disorder creates distortion and destruction.  

Simply, all that happened is that I fell captive to the enmeshment of the FOG of the Disorder.  The Disorder is powerful.  The Disorder has taken down many people more powerful than me.  I didn't mean for it to become so destructive.   In the end I was too fearful and lost to do anything other try and hold on.  

But in my humility or recognizing my humanity, and realizing that I am not perfect, and that the intent from the ex was not evil, if I can find deep compassion and forgiveness of myself, then I once again join my community of the Fellowship of Man.

Forgive ourselves first!  It makes not procrastinating on the 2nd exam easier.  I wish I had learned this forty years ago.  

In support,

T

[Narellan]

Thank you Tausk for that insightful post. 

[rollercoaster24]

Hey 'poor old smith'

Keep coming back, don't take on board that we are victims here, in time you will feel a hell of a lot different, trust me.

Yes, you will still hurt, Yes you'll still be angry, (and rightly so!), but each day that goes by you will regain a little bit of YOU back again that SHE (whatever you damn well feel like calling her in the privacy of your own mind/thoughts/musings at this time)  can't EVER take from you.

Even if you spend a few weeks/months/nights/days eating too much pizza, hardly working, drinking a little too much or smoking a little too much or whatever you need to do to self soothe/medicate for a bit, you will start to heal and all those unhealthy habits you might have adopted (whilst dealing with her crap) if you did adopt them, will fall by the wayside and you will find your way slowly back to your very best self. 

All you have to decide, is where/how/what that very best self is going to mean for you at this stage of your changing life. And don't you dare think about chopping off your own equipment, you need that to function in life, even if you don't feel like using it as much as you used to, it needs to STAY.

Don't let her take THAT away from you.

Take care, and remember you have come to a place where you are no longer alone in your grief, there are thousands of people here going through, (or already have, or are yet to) the same as yourself. The circumstances may differ slightly from case to case, but the stories of pain, violence, rage, betrayal, hurt, are identical, pretty much like the patterns, behaviours, and stages of these 'interactions', we thought we were in relationships but they were really just smoke and mirrors.

Roller

[rollercoaster24]

and just to add further;

I have learnt over the years, that recovery in any shape or form is a cyclical process, like a spiral.

Some days we go forward several leaps/miles/inches, and then others we feel like we tripped up again, and lost all our progress, (in reality we haven't).

Our trick is not to give up on those days when we feel like we have lost all our good progress, (much like dieters falling off the wagon or athletes losing a day of training due to the flu or something).

In my case, I have been so busy the last few days, that today I ate a block of Peppermint Chocolate and a container of Pringles, I beat myself up emotionally for falling off the wagon when I had been so good for well over a week. My daughter came home from work later in the evening and reminded me, (when I relayed my mistake) that I needed a day off to treat eat.

So yea, I feel a little better, (but really, a whole block, seriously!)