What did I do wrong?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Hey... . I'm not arguing "with" you... . I think this is a great thought to flesh out.

If it is wrong to ask someone to change... . is it also wrong to ask them to NOT change.

So... . when after years of normal behavior... . the PD rears it's head... . I think it reasonable to ask them to "stay normal"... . or... . do do what it takes to get back to normal.  I'm not seeing that as asking them to change.

Not really sure if I explained my point as well as I wanted to... . thoughts?  I can try to explain again if needed.

One nuance to think about here... . on the one hand we shouldn't be trying to "change" the other spouse.  We should accept them as who they are.

When a person has a PD... . who they are is masked... . and comes out later. 

I definitely have the feeling of "false advertising"... .   In that case I feel like there should be pressure for her to change or "deal with" the issues she brings to the table.

Thoughts?

hope this make sense.

Hurthusband:

Was my r/s with xBPD HOPELESS or not? I don't really know because I did not stay long enough to extend my suffering. 9 months was MORE THAN ENOUGH.  Do I wish that I stay longer ? NO and NO and No. The reality of it is (1) I am happily married now with a beautiful woman who is what xBPD is not, and (2) the xBPD still is single after 7 years, despite her being a very attractive woman, highly educated and making well over 6 figures. She still cannot be with someone for more than 6 months, - why , why and why --- the answer is her BPD, my friend.

To stay or to leave is our own personal decision. Like I keep asking you - WHEN ENOUGH IS ENOUGH? Only you can answer that.

REmember, to have a happy relationship, the 2 partners have to accept each other as being truly who she/he is, and not trying to change their partner. 

is your wife accepting you as who you are or she expects you to be someone else ? .

DO you accept her as who she is with all of the BPD stuffs and not trying to change her to a NORMAL wife ?

Well for me, I think it is unfair to ask somebody to change, but in any relationship you can ask for compromise on things.  Everyone needs to do some things differently.  I suppose as to what needs to be changed is a question of their behavior, or their core beliefs, or their core personality. 

I do not think you can demand somebody to change...

As far as what I expect of my wife, I only expect to be treated with respect or how you would treat somebody you just met.  That is all.  I think we all have innate rights.  Her change in treating me like that took place after being together 10 years.  Also, the mask thing is a good point.  It is a bit of false advertising. 

I do not expect my wife to ever be perfectly sane or rational. 

[formflier]

Hey... . I'm not arguing "with" you... . I think this is a great thought to flesh out.

If it is wrong to ask someone to change... . is it also wrong to ask them to NOT change.

So... . when after years of normal behavior... . the PD rears it's head... . I think it reasonable to ask them to "stay normal"... . or... . do do what it takes to get back to normal.  I'm not seeing that as asking them to change.

Not really sure if I explained my point as well as I wanted to... . thoughts?  I can try to explain again if needed.

One nuance to think about here... . on the one hand we shouldn't be trying to "change" the other spouse.  We should accept them as who they are.

When a person has a PD... . who they are is masked... . and comes out later. 

I definitely have the feeling of "false advertising"... .   In that case I feel like there should be pressure for her to change or "deal with" the issues she brings to the table.

Thoughts?

hope this make sense.

Hurthusband:

Was my r/s with xBPD HOPELESS or not? I don't really know because I did not stay long enough to extend my suffering. 9 months was MORE THAN ENOUGH.  Do I wish that I stay longer ? NO and NO and No. The reality of it is (1) I am happily married now with a beautiful woman who is what xBPD is not, and (2) the xBPD still is single after 7 years, despite her being a very attractive woman, highly educated and making well over 6 figures. She still cannot be with someone for more than 6 months, - why , why and why --- the answer is her BPD, my friend.

To stay or to leave is our own personal decision. Like I keep asking you - WHEN ENOUGH IS ENOUGH? Only you can answer that.

REmember, to have a happy relationship, the 2 partners have to accept each other as being truly who she/he is, and not trying to change their partner. 

is your wife accepting you as who you are or she expects you to be someone else ? .

DO you accept her as who she is with all of the BPD stuffs and not trying to change her to a NORMAL wife ?

Well for me, I think it is unfair to ask somebody to change, but in any relationship you can ask for compromise on things.  Everyone needs to do some things differently.  I suppose as to what needs to be changed is a question of their behavior, or their core beliefs, or their core personality. 

I do not think you can demand somebody to change...

As far as what I expect of my wife, I only expect to be treated with respect or how you would treat somebody you just met.  That is all.  I think we all have innate rights.  Her change in treating me like that took place after being together 10 years.  Also, the mask thing is a good point.  It is a bit of false advertising. 

I do not expect my wife to ever be perfectly sane or rational. 

[OnceConfused]

FormFlier:

Good question for thought.

Say your BPD is false advertising by being so nice during the courtship phase but then turn to the real BPD after we got hooked.  in reality , Do we all put our best foot forward in the courtship phase so as to attract the other person ? SO we cannot blame BPD for it, that is just the way life works.

So the real us will show up after the initial phase of the courship  and the 2 are in a relationship NOW. The real issue here is how to keep the relationship going otherwise the r/s will end.

To make the r/s last way beyong the initial phase, both parties have to make the other person feel loved. That begs the questions , how do I make you feel LOVED and how do you make feel LOVED.

Do you feel LOVED when you are yelled at, are made to walk on eggshells ? No you are not. Of course, we are all imperfect in some ways. If your imperfection becomes my pet-peeve than either you have to change or we split. BUt if I accept your imperfection than we can go on.

Back to your question of "I feel like there should be pressure for her to change or deal with the issues she bring to the table".  SO what happens if she does not want to change, then what ? You can continue to pressure her but one day it will blow up. So why go there when you know the end result is not what you want.

WOuld it be simpler and better for both, if you just say , Enough is enough, and move on, instead of trying to put a square peg into  a round hole (because in the end, both will be damaged)

[formflier]

Hmmmm... . very... . very good points and things to consider.

I'm going  to continue on my train of thought about why pressure on a pwBPD to change or "deal with it" is appropriate.

Also... in my situation... . change came at around 14-15 years into marriage.  I saw some "hints" before... . but... by and large there are two huge phases of my marriage.  Before the BPD traits... and after. 

Saying that for all to understand that in my case it was not an example of being nice in courtship and then the real me comes out.


Also... . fairly early on we did the love languages... . and figured out how each of us likes to show and feel loved.  We refined that over the years... . and it works very well... . for a non PD person... . and even for a PD person that is not dysregulated...  

However... in my case... . this also armed her with knowledge of what I really cared about.  So when she started her rages and accusations... . she knew what to go for to get a reaction.  And... . she got one... .

That started a slow decline... . ups and downs along the way... but the trend line was no good.  Then I found out about BPD... . and things are a bit up in the air... . to slightly hopeful at the moment.  She is now in therapy.

Your reasoning about why put pressure on them is fine if it is "just" your relationship that matters.  I have 8 kids with this person that I think "changed" on me.

And... unless she changes back... I am in the stance that I think she will do long term harm to our children. 

Not theoretical... . while under her care our 1 year old was in a public road... . (while uBPDw is in the yard with kids)... . and one of the "changes" that she has brought to our relationship is that she... and she alone gets to decide when our children get to be spanked.  In this case, while in a rage, she spanked a 6 year old for allowing a 1 year old to get in the road.  Also got after 8 and 11 yr olds.

So... I know that kind of veered away from our discussion... but in my case... . the reason WHY has less to do with her actions on my relationship with her... . but the impact of her on our kids.

It would be simpler if she would just leave me and our children alone if she doesn't want to change... . but that doesn't seem to be an option.

Hey... the tone of my answer seems to be more harsh that I intended... but no nice way to put my feelings/thoughts out there.

FormFlier:

Good question for thought.

Say your BPD is false advertising by being so nice during the courtship phase but then turn to the real BPD after we got hooked.  in reality , Do we all put our best foot forward in the courtship phase so as to attract the other person ? SO we cannot blame BPD for it, that is just the way life works.

So the real us will show up after the initial phase of the courship  and the 2 are in a relationship NOW. The real issue here is how to keep the relationship going otherwise the r/s will end.

To make the r/s last way beyong the initial phase, both parties have to make the other person feel loved. That begs the questions , how do I make you feel LOVED and how do you make feel LOVED.

Do you feel LOVED when you are yelled at, are made to walk on eggshells ? No you are not. Of course, we are all imperfect in some ways. If your imperfection becomes my pet-peeve than either you have to change or we split. BUt if I accept your imperfection than we can go on.

Back to your question of "I feel like there should be pressure for her to change or deal with the issues she bring to the table".  SO what happens if she does not want to change, then what ? You can continue to pressure her but one day it will blow up. So why go there when you know the end result is not what you want.

WOuld it be simpler and better for both, if you just say , Enough is enough, and move on, instead of trying to put a square peg into  a round hole (because in the end, both will be damaged)

[OnceConfused]

Flier:

People will change only, when:

1. the pain of staying is more than the pain of changing. For example, if you are obese, but you will not change your habit of eating or exercise, because the pain of doing nothing is much less compared to the pain of being disciplined - exercise regularly, watch your diet.

2. they encounter a moment of satori, or enlightenment, or some significant event. For me, the moment of enlightenment is the shock of losing my wife to a car accident and seeing her lying on the ER room, lifeless. I realized in a way that God was giving me another chance to live and yet to live FULLY. From that point on , I became a calmer person, much more tolerant and trying to be in the moment. I strive for a simpler life. SO when the xBPDgf created all these turmoils in my mind and my life, I instead of trying to change her , I just left. (Mine was much simpler than yours with the children).

Imagine you see this beautiful rose bush which you want to grow in your yard. But as you get closer to cut a rose, its thorns prickle you. You then try to get a metal file to cut all of the thorns off. Well, what will the rose bush look next year?  with or without thorns? Of course, the rose bush will grow again with its thorns, that what a rose bush does. So you can choose to have a beautiful rose bush which will not let you near or would it be simpler if you chose a white daisy bus which is less vibrant but you don't have to worry about being cut every time you get near.

So what can your wife change? She will need a moment of satori. The sad part is that many BPD believe they are NOT the problem, their NONs are the problem. Thus, BPD see no needs for them to change.

[formflier]

Very insightful... . thanks.

She has been quite open about me being the problem.

Remains to be seen if the spanking incident and DSS will be the insightful moment that you describe... . or if she is going through the motions.

I think there is a chance that she is considering change.  The has gone to a T several times now.  Before she has refused to do this (for years... )

So... this is a positive step.

Thanks again for the insight... keep it coming.

Flier:

People will change only, when:

1. the pain of staying is more than the pain of changing. For example, if you are obese, but you will not change your habit of eating or exercise, because the pain of doing nothing is much less compared to the pain of being disciplined - exercise regularly, watch your diet.

2. they encounter a moment of satori, or enlightenment, or some significant event. For me, the moment of enlightenment is the shock of losing my wife to a car accident and seeing her lying on the ER room, lifeless. I realized in a way that God was giving me another chance to live and yet to live FULLY. From that point on , I became a calmer person, much more tolerant and trying to be in the moment. I strive for a simpler life. SO when the xBPDgf created all these turmoils in my mind and my life, I instead of trying to change her , I just left. (Mine was much simpler than yours with the children).

Imagine you see this beautiful rose bush which you want to grow in your yard. But as you get closer to cut a rose, its thorns prickle you. You then try to get a metal file to cut all of the thorns off. Well, what will the rose bush look next year?  with or without thorns? Of course, the rose bush will grow again with its thorns, that what a rose bush does. So you can choose to have a beautiful rose bush which will not let you near or would it be simpler if you chose a white daisy bus which is less vibrant but you don't have to worry about being cut every time you get near.

So what can your wife change? She will need a moment of satori. The sad part is that many BPD believe they are NOT the problem, their NONs are the problem. Thus, BPD see no needs for them to change.

[Fanie]

Reading the posts ... .

I have a feeling you are getting better ... .

May God Bless Buddy

   

[hurthusband]

all very interesting... I think the main thing is while asking them to possibly change in some ways may or may not be reasonable...

we can ultimately only change ourselves and if not happy leave...

although that is so hard to detach.  Especially when some of us have been in relationships for years and have lives entangled...

I am not so sure on how this works then

[MissyM]

I agree that the only person we can change is ourselves.  One of these ways is with boundaries on what we will tolerate.  I cannot force my husband to get help (he is currently getting a lot of help) BUT I can say that I won't be in our marriage without recovery for both of us.  Fortunately, his recovery work from addictions includes treatment for BPD.  I do not define what he needs to do in his recovery work, that is between him and his therapist.  Thank goodness this therapist understands his issues quite well, both the addiction and personality disorder. I have gotten to the point that I can detach with love over this, yet still have it as a  boundary for being in the marriage.  If I get angry over it, it has the opposite effect that I am looking for. I do have to radically accept that he is extremely emotional and I need to be validating, instead of expecting that to change.  He is improving but I can't expect that he will ever function fully like a nonBPD.

[hurthusband]

Here is a question...

So my wife got a DWI last week... needless to say the whole thing is terrifying me.  It is actually worrying me more than her I have no doubt even though she is nervous. 

Yesterday, I saw a friend who I also work with on occasion.  We were talking and I told him about the DWI.  I just feel the weight of the whole thing and he tells me everything with him and we have cried together etc.  I just talked to him on it. He explained he had 3 himself and what happens.  He was caring...

I was talking to my wife today about him having 3 DWIs and she asked me if I had told him.  I did not want to lie and I said yes.  She did not become beligerent, but was VERY upset over it.  She was saying that I humiliated her and cared more about finding out what to do about this to help myself financially or emotionally rather than protecting and caring about her privacy and dignity.  I do not think I can argue with that on why I talked to him.  I just feel alone...

Was I wrong in talking to him?  They have not seen each other in 3 years since our wedding.

She says "your therapist is who you talk to".  I agree with that, but I do not see him for weeks, and honestly now that she is back in therapy, I do not think I can afford it for myself.  Already spending nearly $3k a month in healthcare needs for her and health insurance...

Was I wrong?

[GaGrl]

I would just say that secrecy is a aspect of alcoholism.

[formflier]

I don't thing you were wrong.  That seems like a bit of a strong word and plays right into pwBPD thinking.  Black/white... . wrong/right... . etc etc

I would think a better way to approach it is to think about good/better/best.

A better thing might have been for you to take the knowledge that you gained and use it to benefit your family... . but not let your wife know where you got it... . or that you had an conversation about her.

On the other hand... . directly lying (and getting caught) would probably not be helpful in a r/s with a pwBPD. 

There is no way to ever figure out everything that is ok to talk about and what is not ok to talk about.  Just do the best you can and move on.

I know my uBPDw is sensitive about her driving and taking care of vehicles.  Yet... . when I saw a dent on our van the other day I blurted out "what happened"... . before I could think about it.  I don't think it turned out to be a bad thing.

Here is a question...

So my wife got a DWI last week... needless to say the whole thing is terrifying me.  It is actually worrying me more than her I have no doubt even though she is nervous. 

Yesterday, I saw a friend who I also work with on occasion.  We were talking and I told him about the DWI.  I just feel the weight of the whole thing and he tells me everything with him and we have cried together etc.  I just talked to him on it. He explained he had 3 himself and what happens.  He was caring...

I was talking to my wife today about him having 3 DWIs and she asked me if I had told him.  I did not want to lie and I said yes.  She did not become beligerent, but was VERY upset over it.  She was saying that I humiliated her and cared more about finding out what to do about this to help myself financially or emotionally rather than protecting and caring about her privacy and dignity.  I do not think I can argue with that on why I talked to him.  I just feel alone...

Was I wrong in talking to him?  They have not seen each other in 3 years since our wedding.

She says "your therapist is who you talk to".  I agree with that, but I do not see him for weeks, and honestly now that she is back in therapy, I do not think I can afford it for myself.  Already spending nearly $3k a month in healthcare needs for her and health insurance...

Was I wrong?

[hurthusband]

I don't thing you were wrong.  That seems like a bit of a strong word and plays right into pwBPD thinking.  Black/white... . wrong/right... . etc etc

I would think a better way to approach it is to think about good/better/best.

A better thing might have been for you to take the knowledge that you gained and use it to benefit your family... . but not let your wife know where you got it... . or that you had an conversation about her.

On the other hand... . directly lying (and getting caught) would probably not be helpful in a r/s with a pwBPD. 

There is no way to ever figure out everything that is ok to talk about and what is not ok to talk about.  Just do the best you can and move on.

I know my uBPDw is sensitive about her driving and taking care of vehicles.  Yet... . when I saw a dent on our van the other day I blurted out "what happened"... . before I could think about it.  I don't think it turned out to be a bad thing.

Here is a question...

So my wife got a DWI last week... needless to say the whole thing is terrifying me.  It is actually worrying me more than her I have no doubt even though she is nervous. 

Yesterday, I saw a friend who I also work with on occasion.  We were talking and I told him about the DWI.  I just feel the weight of the whole thing and he tells me everything with him and we have cried together etc.  I just talked to him on it. He explained he had 3 himself and what happens.  He was caring...

I was talking to my wife today about him having 3 DWIs and she asked me if I had told him.  I did not want to lie and I said yes.  She did not become beligerent, but was VERY upset over it.  She was saying that I humiliated her and cared more about finding out what to do about this to help myself financially or emotionally rather than protecting and caring about her privacy and dignity.  I do not think I can argue with that on why I talked to him.  I just feel alone...

Was I wrong in talking to him?  They have not seen each other in 3 years since our wedding.

She says "your therapist is who you talk to".  I agree with that, but I do not see him for weeks, and honestly now that she is back in therapy, I do not think I can afford it for myself.  Already spending nearly $3k a month in healthcare needs for her and health insurance...

Was I wrong?

yea... she is pretty upset and hurt.  She is trying not to blow up at me, but like last night she keeps saying she doesnt think I care or value her.  Of course, my thing is if I am willing to go through all of this that should be proof.  The fact I fall asleep at 11 pm at night while we are laying in bed and she is on her phone I do not think necessarily means I do not care... its why I ask we talk on the sofa. 

She was upset that I did not speak up more when my mom and her were speaking last night, and all ic ared about was eating... . truthfully, they were posed towards each other both with back towards me, and did not ask my opinion at any point nor really allowed any pause for me to say anything.  I know interrupting my wife is a means to upset her.  Also the topic is one that I do not know if my wife views me as a villian or on her side so I am scared to mention anything and cause more grief

[formflier]

yea... she is pretty upset and hurt.  She is trying not to blow up at me, but like last night she keeps saying she doesnt think I care or value her. 

Hey... . this is right out of my uBPDw playbook.  As i started using limits... . SET and the rest of the tools.  This did get better.  You are in charge of what you care about... . not her.  Then she will try to say she is not trying to tell you how you feel... . just how she "thinks" you feel.  Squashing this will go a long way to improving quality of life... .

Don't do anything drastic... . just think about best way to respond when she says things like this.  Come up with strategy and stick to it for several weeks to see if there is improvement.

DO NOT try to convince her that you care or she is wrong. 

Of course, my thing is if I am willing to go through all of this that should be proof.  The fact I fall asleep at 11 pm at night while we are laying in bed and she is on her phone I do not think necessarily means I do not care... its why I ask we talk on the sofa. 

This is right out of the playbook as well.  There are bajillions of articles that say the bedroom should be for intimacy, conversation... . etc etc.  Not watching TV or being on phone... especially when the other spouse is present.  Maybe this could be approached with a "honey do you think a mutually agreed on boundary for the bedroom would improve our relationship" talk?  Again... let others weigh in and think on this before trying to put this in place.

She was upset that I did not speak up more when my mom and her were speaking last night, and all ic ared about was eating... . truthfully, they were posed towards each other both with back towards me, and did not ask my opinion at any point nor really allowed any pause for me to say anything.  I know interrupting my wife is a means to upset her.  Also the topic is one that I do not know if my wife views me as a villian or on her side so I am scared to mention anything and cause more grief

You were three for three today.  I just quit listening to complaints like this.  I'm not a mind reader.  If she wants to come up with a discrete signal that you need to enter a conversation... . that would be great... . but no mind reading.

[hurthusband]

So draining dealing with this stuff.  Problem is I do feel guilty about saying anything to anyone and it almost gives her the upper hand.  O well, guess just try and SET it out...

[OnceConfused]

Hurt:

You weren't wrong.

It does not matter what you say or do, BPD can always put the blame on you. That is why the term, WALKING ON EGGSHELLS, applies here.

FOr me, it got to the point that I was so afraid to share something with the xBPD because that would be used to attack me later. I became very superficial with the xBPD, and only talked about the non-essential stuffs/issues.

I guess you can SET it out or whatever, but is that really how you want to have in a r.s? . Always in a defensive posture. Are you happy with being constantly watching over your shoulder?

In a r.s. you should be able to share things and not being fearful of retribution.

What we have with BPD is NOT RELATIONSHIP. it is more like a master/slave situation where the nons is expected to behave like a docile dog. THe dog keeps on coming back even after being abused.

[Panda39]

I would just say that secrecy is a aspect of alcoholism.

This is absolutely true!

There is nothing wrong with talking with a friend especially someone who had a similar situation.  You are allowed to reach out for support and advice from friends or family... . You are allowed to consider yourself, your needs, your feelings... . you matter too!  As much as this is happening to your spouse, it is happening to you too and it is very stressful.

Take care of yourself.

[hurthusband]

all of this also is coming to a head because this week we have to go before the medical board this week to talk about an abortion where the doctor verbally and emotionally assaulted my wife... nearly physically.  she honestly did not even do anything, but make small whimper of pain when he snapped.  I was there and if he wasnt in the middle of it, I would have forcibly removed him.  Investigators investigated it and decided it needed to go before a medical board

The whole thing was bad enough because we had talked about a child but it seemed like at the time divorce was inevitable.  For the doctor to then go crazy and literally have the nurse in the room crying over what he was doing and the administrator to forcibly remove him after the procedure turned the whole thing into a something beyond a nightmare. 

[momtara]

That really sounds like a bad situation.  Abortion is traumatic enough, especially since (as you wrote before) she blames you for it (although it's not your fault)... . it's just a situation that causes enough emotional pain even without BPD, and even without a doctor flipping out.  That's terrible that your bad situation was compounded by that.

But maybe at least you will get this out of the way, face the pain together, and move on.  Not that there aren't a million other things to worry about, but maybe you will at least have to confront this and talk about it after.

Tiptoeing and covering things up only causes them to explode later. 

And hopefully this doctor won't put someone else thorugh this pain.

Hang in there, HH.  Maybe there is something good you can focus on after this week is over?  Even just buying yourself a favorite meal at a lunch place next week?  You really have way too much to bear in your life.  Wish there was someone who could provide comfort.

[momtara]

I just went back and read the post that started this thread.  So your mom forgot your stepson's b-day.  You can't be responsible for every little thing everyone does.  It did not mean you should have been verbally assaulted for one minute, nevertheless 3 hours.  It's not your responsibility to make everyone else do everything, be perfect, never make a misstep.  Your wife would have found something else to berate you for, if not that.  You did nothing wrong.  I think you should be taping this abuse so that you don't forget it.  Even just for yourself.  No one should be so emotionally battered on what should be a happy day and a celebration. You've spent thousands on gifts for her, bailed her out of a European trip that was her family's fault, etc.  

She's the one who doesn't stand up to her family - so she puts it on you because she's guilty.  Remember, with a BPD person, every accusation is a confession.  If she says you're a liar, she's probably lying.  If she says you don't stand up to your family, on behalf of your wife and SS, it's because she feels guilty that she doesn't stand up to HER Family.

I just really feel for you.  You are a good person.  Things will get better - I know you can't see that now - but they will. 

[hurthusband]

yea she likes my mom again... my mother went  out of her way to meet with her and discuss things with her... . they are okay now...

she just keeps going from saying we are good to we are not connected and she doesnt feel close to me... i tell her it must be hardt o deal with all of this and i want to try and have her feel that i am closer but if she does nto feel it she needs to find happiness even if not with me

[momtara]

You need to feel and find happiness too.

It must be a relief for her to be getting along with your mom again.

But I wonder if you are also waiting for the other shoe to drop, for some other thing to happen... . I hate that feeling... .

I still wish maybe her therapist could help you on this somehow.  or that you could see a therapist who would come up with a better way to deal with all this.  

[hurthusband]

You need to feel and find happiness too.

It must be a relief for her to be getting along with your mom again.

But I wonder if you are also waiting for the other shoe to drop, for some other thing to happen... . I hate that feeling... .

I still wish maybe her therapist could help you on this somehow.  or that you could see a therapist who would come up with a better way to deal with all this.  

basically in therapy its being told same things as her.  Take time for myself, do not take what she says personally and realize it is not true.  Even if what I do is somewhat selfish that is okay because nobody is perfect and we all need to do stuff or ourselves.  In addition, if we are doing what we feel right that is fine.  Most of that is because I refused the thought of divorce...

She was crabby last night.  Hyper critical of everything I said.  I kept trying to appeal to her sense of humor or talk with her etc.  Everything kept going wrong.  One joke I made was because I thought she was bad mouthing somebody, so I made a type of joke I know she usually laughs at.  She took offense to it and would not let that go.  I finally left saying I cannot handle the hypercriticism.  she of course said I need to divorce her.  I told her that I do not want a divorce, but if she wants one and feels it would be best for her I will support her.  I told her she needs to do what will bring her happiness and since she keeps saying I am at fault, then maybe divorce for her is the answer, but not me.  Came back late and went to sleep.

She started down the road on saying that she wanted the doctor to pay in some way and that would help her heal.  That she wanted him to know that he hurt her and transformed her for life, and wanting him to acknowledge that and maybe if his license was suspended or he paid financially that would happen.  I said that it is possible she might never get that out of him, and even if she did, revenge does not stop the pain.  To me that is what it sounded like.  To me, you gotta find peace and move past the incident and its all internal ultimately.  She said it wasnt revenge.  I understand she wants him to acknowledge it, but I just do not know that it will happen or that it will heal anything.

Somewhat same thing on how she blames me.  She talks about how doc tells her to learn compassion... and being compassionate to others will help her be compassionate to herself and not be angry and irritable and calm her to deal with other things... . I see her trying and it working in some aspects of life, but others... not so much.

I really just want a finality at this point.  I cannot expect her to get better instantly, but at same time, I cannot handle this over and over.  A divorce will not happen instantly neither... . things will be worse initially unless she agrees and I do not see that happening... I see that making me more unhappy short term too. 

Just need a break... she needs one too, but my break I need is from her mental issues.  That is same break she needs, but she cannot get that...

[hurthusband]

well... things got more complicated...

we get a call last night that her mother has thyroid cancer...   Cancer is never good, but at first glance it is most thyroid cancers are highly treatable.  The problem is that there is a form of the cancer that is highly untreatable too with a very very poor prognosis.  The scary part is she said the tumor had doubled in size and also spread to her shoulder all within a week.  Needless to say my wife is more shell shocked.

So to recap in past 6 weeks... she has had a car accident, dwi, a court hearing on what was probably the most traumatic event of her life, and her mother has cancer.  Now, that also means that I have been the sole support system, the fixer, and the punching bag for all of that. 

Two are her fault, two are random horrible chance, but when does it all stop... . I mean this is just unfair for all involved

[formflier]

 

Hang in there... . please focus on self care!

[momtara]

Yeah, thyroid is the best cancer to have (if there is such a thing).  Maybe all of these things will actually get her (and/or her mom) off your back a little?  Not exactly a permanent solution, but at least it's something.

What happened at the hearing for that doctor?

[momtara]

The doctor should be suspended so he doesn't hurt anyone else.  I agree with her on that.

"I told her that I do not want a divorce, but if she wants one and feels it would be best for her I will support her."

GOOD!  This takes away the manipulation.  Instead of her putting the burden, responsibility, and ultimately blame on you, turn it back on her.  If she wants a divorce, let her spend the money and do the work.

Clearly she doesn't want you to leave her.  If she thinks you're so terrible, she should leave.

I think if you got a separation, you could risk losing her, but she might also really try to get better.  But... . you just don't know.  Ultimately, it sounds like she has trouble controlling this.  And considering her parents, we know part of where it comes from... .

That doesn't mean you have to put up with criticism.  Give short answers.  If she wants a divorce, she should go get one.  The end.

[hurthusband]

we have to drive down there tommorow to give testimony before the attorneys and board.  She is dreading it and I think that is the root of all of this fighting.  She does not want to deal with it and face him again so its easier to just be mad at me and blame me for all of this.  If no abortion, no having the issue happen and no having to face this.  I mean I also booked the weekend for fun too, but it might not go well

Yesterday was going fairly well, but she asked that I go to her doctor with her.  I went and it did not go so well.  Basically the doctor said she was continually abusive to me in the session and that what she said I was saying, I was not actually saying.  I mentioned that I think she heaps the rage on me because she has learned from me letting it happen that it will be fine.  She says its like an addiction too to rage.

Basically she felt that the doctor and I were saying she was some monster and she was not happy.  That is not what we were saying, but its just any criticism is end of the world. 

Doc said really marriage counseling will not work at this time because she is just too abusive verbally and they gotta work on that. 

I just do not know.  I am tired...

[formflier]

Basically she felt that the doctor and I were saying she was some monster and she was not happy.  That is not what we were saying, but its just any criticism is end of the world. 

Doc said really marriage counseling will not work at this time because she is just too abusive verbally and they gotta work on that. 

I just do not know.  I am tired...

Hang in there... . you have a bonus.  It seems like there are medical professionals that "see" what is going on.  Hang in there and keep pressing.

What are you doing for self care?  Please give us some details about how you take care of you.

[hurthusband]

Basically she felt that the doctor and I were saying she was some monster and she was not happy.  That is not what we were saying, but its just any criticism is end of the world. 

Doc said really marriage counseling will not work at this time because she is just too abusive verbally and they gotta work on that. 

I just do not know.  I am tired...

Hang in there... . you have a bonus.  It seems like there are medical professionals that "see" what is going on.  Hang in there and keep pressing.

What are you doing for self care?  Please give us some details about how you take care of you.

doc and I and her talked about that... and safe place.  Still talking on it.  right now after work its pretty much dealing with kids and preparing for testimony and her mom with cancer so its hard to have any time. 

as far as retreat... she was basically being told she was unfair for not letting me retreat to my parents or some safe place.  as far as retreating to a room, i said a. she wouldnt leave me alone and b. why should i have to be confined to a room in my own house for safety

[formflier]

 

Maybe on a follow up to the dr... . he can write a "prescription" for what you are to do if/and when she rages.

That way she is "dealing with" his rule... instead of yours.

Might get some of the hate off you.

Do... you can say... . "honey... just following drs orders... . I"m going for a walk... going to my room... whatever"...