Don't know what to do... need ideas... please

[hermama]

I received this text from my d33 this morning:

"mom, ugh, is there any way you can help me with my mortgage again? I was wondering if I could get $150. $100 for my mortgage & $50 cause I'm about 2b on "E" in my gas tank. If I have to pay it back, I'll find a way."

previous history regarding my d33 who is a divorced mom with 5 kids can be found at:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=226164.0

Our biggest recent conflict was a couple of weeks ago when she asked me to co-sign with her for a $9000 loan for an online college and I told her no.  My "no" sent her into such a tailspin that she didn't go to work for 2 days because she said she was too depressed.  My assumption is that the paycheck she just received on Friday is short those 2 days, which is why she can't make her mortgage payment.

I have "helped" her out so many times in the past because I worried about things like her not having enough gas and wondering how she would make it to work... . and not having enough money to make her mortgage payment or utility bills... . and then what would happen? and I know money is incredibly tight for her... . so I've jumped in and bailed her out time and again.  But now that I've recognized this whole BPD thing... . and I see that my helping is really not helping at all... . and I see that her dependency on me actually feeds her resentment... . I don't know what to do.  I want to say No to this request... . but I honestly don't know how.  I want to avoid another big conflict... . but I don't want my pocketbook to be the trade-off for avoidance of conflict. 

I don't want to say, "you shouldn't have taken those days off work... . "

but I don't want to reinforce her bad choices by rescuing her.  It's NOT that I CAN'T say No... . its that I don't know how to say it in a way that protects the relationship. 

and of course these requests are ALWAYS last minute... . when its an "emergency"... . the mortgage payment is due NOW... . the gas tank is empty NOW... .    

I would so appreciate some ideas... .

I don't want my finances to be a part of our relationship any more.  I don't want her asking me for money any more.  But since, clearly, it is largely my fault that things are this way now (because of my repeated giving of financial help)... . I don't know that just suddenly cutting it off is the right way to handle it either... .

thoughts?

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[mimis]

Hi hermama,

I understand how you are feeling right now.  You must be so worried for her right now. How about saying this to her" I can't give you the money as I just don't have enough." "what have you tried as a solution "? see what she says. if she says "nothing... and says I am asking you for the money to fix it and if she plays the guilt card by saying " some mother you are, won't help her own daughter when she is asking for help" stand firm and reply" I am your mom and would like to help in areas that I am able.  Is there some other way I can help you?"

this is what I have picked up from reading a book called "you don't have to make everything better" Good luck and stand your ground.

[hermama]

so I woke up this morning to find this text on my phone from my d33... .



"mom, ugh, is there any way you can help me with my mortgage again? I was wondering if I could get $150. $100 for my mortgage & $50 cause I'm about 2b on "E" in my gas tank. If I have to pay it back, I'll find a way."

I've noticed my physiological symptoms of anxiety all morning... . and trying to figure out how to respond to this one text is having the effect of preventing me from getting done all the other things I need to be doing this morning. this is how it seems my life goes. It feels like my life gets hijacked by her. She sends me emails or text messages that I feel like immediately put me in a no-win situation. If I answer one way, I lose money. If I answer another way, she blows up and I get punished somehow.  If I delay my response, I lose the space in my head, because the time is spent with my mind going around in circles about how to respond to her.

okay, so I sent her this response... . thinking of it as a compromise: I can give you $30 for gas, but I can't help with the mortgage pmt.   so sorry! Maybe you can call the mortgage company & make some arrangements?

and she immediately sent me this response: they won't make arrangements with me anymore. I have to have the full amount due by today. I only have $662  in my account and the payment is $755. Otherwise I risk it going into foreclosure. I can pay u back on Friday. I only asked for $50 bcuz I have to go to Carmel for my last bariatric appt on Thursday. I'm almost on empty now and I definitely will be by the time I come home from class tonight.

of course, all of her expenses are the results of her choices, not mine. and here we are... . she has to have the FULL amount TODAY... .   that's always the way she comes to me... .

[hermama]

and she's sending me texts right now... . "otherwise when they try to take the pmt out today, I'm gonna have all these insufficient fund fees and returned check fees all hitting which will put me even more in the hole" ... .

and from her perspective, if I don't bail her out, the bigger hole she finds herself in will be all my fault... .

[mimis]

Hermama, she is giving you her problem to solve.  She must solve this on her own.  you may want to try this approach, not saying it will work. " I am sorry to hear that. What a difficult position to be in.  I have confidence in you and know you will figure it out." you are responding with understanding and empathy but no money. 

[jellibeans]

Hermama

I am sorry you are struggling today with dd's request for money. I really understand the dilema you are having over giving the money. My dd is only 16 so I have not had this money issue. What I think is good to do is look at the problem... . I don't think you always have to have a yes or no answer and I think you did good at offering only part. I would probably use this request to set my boundary for her... . since this has been such a pattern I can see how your dd is not prepared for a no answer in any shape or form... . so is there a way to loan her the money with the understanding that you want it repaid? and also that you will not be doing this in the future? Is this the time you lay out your boundary in regards to the money?

I don't have this issue right now but I am sure I will in the future... . please let us know how it goes... . I am sorry I really don't have any good suggestions to give. So often I think our children with BPD really paint themselves in a corner before they ask for help.

[Dibdob59]

Hi

I don't post that regularly but read the board everyday. If you are interested in looking back at my posts you will see I am the mother of an UBPDS29 in the UK who has two children and who is living without a partner...  

Hermama, your story is uncanny in its similarity to the things my son does and says. It was so weird that I read your posts to my non DD33 who agreed they are identical experiences. The situations your DD finds herself in, the way she expects you to solve everything, her financial/practical expectations and attitude, her phraseology - all mirror my son.

And yet they are different genders on different continents, completely disconnected from each other apart from BPD.

I am regularly in your position with providing financial support and struggle with myself over it. I have recently been in therapy and my T had an interesting perspective on the situation when I was beating myself up during a session. He asked me what my problem actually was about helping my son financially.  I said it was because he was a grown man and my image of him in my mind was that he should be self sufficient. My T then asked if my son worked and I confirmed he did. He then asked if my son earnt enough money to pay his rent, rates, utilities, gas, phone, food, insurances etc etc on his own. I said he did not.

The T then asked whether, if my son did not have BPD, would I still have a problem with helping him out financially, especially as he was working and doing his best.  I thought about it and said I probably would not have a problem with it. So my T asked why there was a difference and that surely someone who was struggling with BPD needed my help more than someone who was mentally healthy? I struggled to answer that question.

My T also said that perhaps I was upset about giving DS money as I was judging myself and my son because his life and mine had not turned out the way I had expected them to according to the story I had pre-written in my mind.  He suggested it may give me peace of mind to accept that I would give my DS money and expect nothing in return, so long as I could afford it. His point was that if I was going to help my DS anyway, why not radically accept that fact and remove the emotional baggage which was impacting on my response to my DS and triggering his shame all the time.

What do you think of his comments to the situation?

Dibdob

[manicmuse]

Dib I like your therapist! Hes so right, but I think we get upset befause its always so urgent, its a feeling we are being manipulated and pulled into the drama that we cant help but resent.

That being said, ID give my left arm if my BPDD28 would be contributing towareds her childrens lives, houseing anything, she just dowsnt and has a network of people she gets money from daily to get by.

Be thankful they are trying to be productive, and if its money handleing perhaps you can work on that with them.

[hermama]

Thanks to all for your responses. So, the last text I mentioned that she sent me was this one: "otherwise when they try to take the pmt out today, I'm gonna have all these insufficient fund fees and returned check fees all hitting which will put me even more in the hole".  She sent that around 11:30a.m. 

I did not know what else to say, because I really didn't want to be moved from my original position of offering $30 for gasoline. I didn't respond until around 1:15pm, and all I said was "I understand. That really sucks... .

She texted right back and said she got the money from a co-worker.

jellibeans, although you're not in my position yet, it sounds like you really get where I'm coming from. The way I see it, I am very largely responsible for having allowed this pattern to develop... . for helping to create the dependency or the expectations. So to suddenly cut her off completely without a little transition and a time to finally set the firm boundaries around the money issue would be unfair to her in my opinion.

mimis, I agree with you that your statement is the "ideal"... . however, I have been helping her solve her problems and so I am also responsible for this current dynamic. I also know it has gone on too long... . I thought things would get better... . they haven't... . I've been developing more and more resentment... . and now that I recognize the BPD issue AND recognize how UNhelpful my own behaviors have been... . I'm truly ready to begin implementing change.

I just want to be careful how I go about it... . using as much wisdom as I can garner in order to preserve our relationship. 

Dibdob59, I like your T also. And I have said often (to my husband, my T, and trusted others)... . "If I knew she was doing her best to do her part... . if she showed that she was handling money as well as possible and taking care of the kids as she should... . I would feel differently."  But that is not the case. In the past, I have paid her utility bill, only for her to turn around a few days later and purchase airfare and take a flight somewhere to visit a friend for 4 days.  And she took off work 2 days a couple of weeks ago because she "was so depressed" since I told her No on co-signing for a loan.  And she doesn't get paid when she takes off work... . but then I'm expected to pick up the slack when the paycheck is short... . ? Not anymore. 

Because I KNOW my daughter truly IS in a difficult situation financially... . is precisely why I have helped as I have.  Because I am smart enough to comprehend that 1 + 1 does NOT equal 5.  It only equals 2.  So when there's not enough there's just not enough and its not going to fall out of the sky... .

HOWEVER... . when it flips over into me being EXPECTED to bail her out financially all the time AND support her bad financial decisions AND be okay with being treated like crap throughout all of it... . that's not okay.  So its definitely time for change.  Her problems go waaaaaaaay beyond money handling.  What I see her children going through because they have to live with her breaks my heart regularly... .

[tristesse]

Hermama, I am sorry that you are faced with this dilemma. My BPDd is 30 and living in my home again after 2 years, she brought her 5 year old along, as well she should. I understand exactly how you are feeling, at least once every other month I was being asked for money to help get her out of some financial jam or another, and I had no will power. I almost always caved and gave her the money, I couldn't bear the thought of her or her son going without power or without food etc. I know she was mostly exaggerating, but I gave in anyway because my heartstrings were always involved. If you are strong enough to hold out, I suggest doing so, but I can not give any good dialogue, because I am no good at that myself yet. Good luck

[madmom]

I too struggle with my daughter and money.  She does make enough money to pay all of her bills if she makes good choices (i.e.  not taking off of work, not loaning money to a "friend", not going out and spending money so that she can be with "friends" etc.)  but it is tight. I am with you, if she would make good choices, I would be willing to help her a little more.  Recently, my husband and I refused to give her rent money when she came to us last minute, and said she was short, but of course it was because of her poor choices.  For the first time ever, we said no, based on things we learned here.  She did manage to deal with it on her own and I think that was good for all of us. My husband and I did sit down together and talk about something we are willing to pay for---health insurance.  She just got off of ours and we feel that is so important for her to have that we negotiated a deal with her.  For the next three months we will pay the health insurance with the following to be done on her part---she would again start attending therapy at least once a month and every two weeks she would meet and have dinner or something with my husband and I with the sole purpose of working on our relationship together.  During the three months, she could work on her budget and figure out what she needs to do She has worked with us on setting a budget and even paid back money she has owed to us in the past, so we are hoping that we are supporting versus enabling with the insurance thing. We are lucky that she doesn't rage, cut, etc. She was very open to this and hopefully at the end of the three months, she will be ready to take on the responsibility of paying for insurance, at least partially.  Good luck, I know just what you are going through and how hard it is to see them struggle. 

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[mimis]

Hermama,

You have given myself some very good insight in how to set boundaries and limits when it comes to helping a loved one financially. Books are a wonderful resource but I agree that the ideal situation does not always present itself.   I also find it  hard to say no and to tell my DD to  resolve it on her own. Inherently, I am a rescuer and even when the readings I have done say to try setting limits and boundaries, I also find it hard to do.  You are right that it is not fair to just stop aid without giving you DD fair warning of your new boundaries going forward.  I like you have set up expectations with my DD and am not blameless when my DD needs me to help with her problems.  It does cause for resentment and anger as often our help does go unnoticed.  Many times I have paid for things my DD wanted but ill afford just so I could make her feel better. But like you, it eventually turned into resentment when she would turn around and spend money on things I know shouldn't be bought and really weren't necessary. I find it really hard to swallow my thoughts but many times I do. Today I read the information on this site, before you can make it better, you have to stop making it worse.  It really helped me today. Good Luck as your go forward with this challenge of redefining your limits with your DD.

[Stella1425]

Hermama~ironically it was this subject that lead me to "emergency therapy" offered to us. The therapist was great and when we were almost done she said " if your daughter is able to get help suggest DBT to her." That statement lead me to looking up DBT which lead me here. Years ago I figured she had BPD but allowed myself to forget it?  We borrowed so much money to her after she left her husband (dx NPD.) I felt she "needed" my help and so kept giving all the while expecting her to get on track when D30 got her tax returns. She did repay us some but not her bills. She promised, and we were hugely disappointed.  I am waiting for the other shoe to drop. She kept 4,000.00 for herself and just the other day said she was broke!  This was since April. Hasn't asked for anything but we made it crystal clear (is it ever?) that there would be no monetary help anymore. We will stick to that and may lose our gs6. However we are now taking him every weekend for her as he ex is doing badly with alcohol which has effected our GS and the other grandparents are unreliable. So she needs us for that. We live 2 hours away from her. What a mess. Anyway, my 2 cents is this. I can see, as you can, that we have not helped her by paying her bills. If they make enough to pay themselves (my d does) then they should. I am dreading the actual asking for help, but hoping she is smart enough not to. Maybe you should broach the subject and let her know you are done. It does make us feel so manipulated doesn't it.