Can you hear me screaming ?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Day after train-wreck day.

DBPDh gets up at 5am out the door at 6am to buy OTC codeine products because he took all his px meds yesterday whilst dysregulated.

We had a major thunderstorm about 9am, he phones and asks if I could come get him as he on his skateboard, I did, no problem.

He then starts ranting, our son is in the car, he is paranoid,irrAtional and escalating up. He is unable to cope most days, but without meds I know where this is going. We get home, manage to calm him,take our son dancing,return he playing seriously loud offensive hip hop. I ask if he can turn this down, or put on headphones, he starts ranting I walk away.

I here popping tablets out of a blister pack, go upstairs as he is taking an overdose. I let him know that I am phoning an ambulance and the Crisis service which I have done. He comes down stairs says he hadn't taken an overdose, he stopped, but that he is going to tell the paramedics I lied and that I am the crazy one !  Help

[sweetheart]

Day after train-wreck day.

DBPDh gets up at 5am out the door at 6am to buy OTC codeine products because he took all his px meds yesterday whilst dysregulated.

We had a major thunderstorm about 9am, he phones and asks if I could come get him as he on his skateboard, I did, no problem.

He then starts ranting, our son is in the car, he is paranoid,irrAtional and escalating up. He is unable to cope most days, but without meds I know where this is going. We get home, manage to calm him,take our son dancing,return he playing seriously loud offensive hip hop. I ask if he can turn this down, or put on headphones, he starts ranting I walk away.

I here popping tablets out of a blister pack, go upstairs as he is taking an overdose. I let him know that I am phoning an ambulance and the Crisis service which I have done. He comes down stairs says he hadn't taken an overdose, he stopped, but that he is going to tell the paramedics I lied and that I am the crazy one !  Help

[OutOfEgypt]

I wish I knew what to say.  All I can say first is that I believe you are a saint for doing what you can to be a good wife to him.  Sounds like your situation is different in some ways from mine, so I cannot comment fully in an informed way.  

My step-son would act like that.  He does, to this day, need help, but at least he is in a situation where he is not constantly being triggered.  But I will not let him move back into my house.  I know how it will go -though, honestly, it will probably go much better because his uBPDmom isn't here anymore.

My heart goes out to you.  Is there someone who can help you establish a step-wise game plan to do something?  I know how this kind of thing sucks years away from your soul, but it sounds like yours is a constant battle.

[refusetosuccumb]

I am so very sorry.  Btdt and have the tshirt.

Good for you for calling Crisis Services.  I did that as well before we separated.  You and I are not trained to deal with this.  If indeed he's being manipulative, having a witness and documentation will go a long way for you whatever you end up deciding to stay or leave.  In my case, my ex presents well, it's behind closed doors that he's a wreck.  The Crisis Services couldn't make him leave and get help, but they let both of us know that I did exactly the right thing and to do it again if ex ever threatened suicide.

Never did have to call them again.

Suicide is real but you can't control his actions.  At least if he does kill himself you know you've done all you can do.

 

[refusetosuccumb]

Crisis Services are trained to detect mental illness.  I was interviewed by them before they talked to my ex.  He called me crazy too, said I overreacted.  They saw right through it.  I at least felt validated that they weren't falling for my ex's manipulations.

[sweetheart]

Hello OutOfEgypt

It is good advice, it is me and my son who need a comprehensive plan of action for when events like this take place. I know not to engage, but it just wasn't possible this morning, and when he is like this, me, the rain, the entire universe is the trigger.

A step by step approach for me would be great, as I feel so stressed when he does this and I panic inside. I know I can't stop him from what he is doing, but he brings scary chaos into our home. He refused to go in the ambulance when they arrived, saying he was being bullied by everyone. He was sick later, I informed the Crisis Team so that everything is at least documented. They asked me if there were problems in the marriage, this is what they ask every time this happens, and I say yes, in relation to his diagnosis of BPD, but I know they have absolutely no clue what I mean. It is very hard not to start screaming and never stop. There is a part of me that doesn't want him in the house when he is like this, he used to sleep rough a lot when he wanted to be off the grid doing whatever

Someone replied to another of my posts about putting a letter together for his new P. I have consent from my husband to discuss all aspects of his care with his team which at least allows me to talk to whomever necessary.

I am going to arrange to meet his Care Coordinator and ask him to help me put a Crisis Plan together for me. He really needs to be admitted when he is that dysregulated, but there are no psychiatric beds here in our area for voluntary admissions for crisis resolution. So everything falls to the family to manage especially over a weekend.

Thanks for responding OutOfEgypt, it really helps me to focus my thoughts and manage some of my own chaos.

[sweetheart]

Wow thanks loads for that refusetosuccumb,

My dBPDh also can present really really credibly when he needs to. When the paramedic came and I heard them talking together he was like a different person, he agreed to be taken to the ED by me. As soon as the paramedic left he refused to go saying I was bullying him. The Crisis Team asked to talk to him when I phoned them, and he kept saying "it's her, she's crazy, she's bullying me " then hands the phone back to me. I said can you just document his refusal in case he dies  

In the past I haven't always contacted services about his crazy making,  but now I am determined to let them know what is going on. I was also advised to tell him that if he left the house today I was to phone the police to intervene on a Welfare Check. I think he is shocked because in the past I tried to manage and absorb everything, but I don't want to anymore, I want his team to be aware of how much chaos he is actually in.

[OutOfEgypt]

You are welcome.  What about an overall plan as well -not just a plan for his episodes?  For example, is there a way to establish an overall plan for you and your child that would STOP the craziness in your home?

Having a plan to manage his episodes is good, but at a point we just end up enabling them to continue in the same cycle.  And things don't change.  From hearing you talk, something has to change or you are going to lose your mind.

For example... . separation with some kind of long-term mental health care for your husband with the aim of keeping the relationship alive but SAFE and you and your family at a SAFE distance.  Can you have him committed to a mental health treatment center for a time?

The goal would be to balance restoring peace and safety to your home, which is ESSENTIAL for you and your child, with maintaining a semi-functional relationship with your husband.  Even if your husband lived in a mental health facility for a time, he would hopefully stabilize, you would have sanity in your life and home, and you and your child could visit him regularly and have GOOD interaction for a change.  

Think of it this way... . your child is going through enough.  If you crack, he will have nobody.  There has to be a way to do something.  Unfortunately, because you are already doing so much, it falls on your shoulders to make it happen.

[sweetheart]

I am writing between two threads  fortunately our son is not exposed to the dysregulations and awful extremes of his fathers disorder. Bizarrely for my dBPDh our son is like a little beacon of light that makes everything alright for him when they are together. I have thought a lot about this and I think it is because children practice Radical Acceptance, our son knows his daddy is very ill but because most of my husbands chaos is at night or mostly outside the house our son has not been directly effected by it. Of course there are huge limitations, but children want unconditional love from a parent and he has that. My husband has never even once raised his voice to our son, and we don't do smacking.thus far their relationship is a good one that is positive for both of them. I posted before that my sons well being has always been my line in the sand. I know that you are right when you say if I fall to pieces then my sons well being will not be ok.

I am going to have to be very clear that I want something in place and now. I thought I had already said it but if nothing improves in the next couple of weeks I am going to ask my husband to move out.

What is useful about posting when there is a crisis is it helps me focus on what I need to do, what I can do, what I am doing and KateCat in another post asked about safety issues. I do not feel at risk and neither is our son, however my husband is at risk, and that has been the main issue this last year.

[KateCat]

sweetheart,

I am popping in to "bully" you on both threads now   but only because of the strength and grace you are showing in responding to all our concerns.

I agree 100% with OutOfEgypt.  You and your small boy cannot be the first line of therapy for your husband at this time.

I do not believe that children practice "radical acceptance." Instead, they have no choice but to try to remain calm in the presence of an ill parent.

[sweetheart]

I am saying this because it is important, our son was not in the house at the time, he was dancing. If he had been present I would have left the house and phoned from outside, if necessary had my husband removed from the house by the police. It did not come to this, but it does not scare me to act.  You are both absolutely right I cannot be the first line of therapy, and because of this support I am no longer going to be.

Sorry about the Radical Acceptance comment I didn't realise how it read. I did not mean that our son is accepting of my husbands chaos etc as ok what I meant is that he loves his father unconditionally when he is with him when he is well.

KateCat bully me as much as you like 

[KateCat]

Here's my biggest bullying shot!

What I fear you cannot prevent if your son and your husband continue to live together long-term:

Right now your son has only one "job" that is beyond his years. Soothing daddy. Soon, though, as he will be a perceptive and helpful little boy, he will add a second job: protecting mummy from daddy. These two jobs will be in conflict, and he will experience internal stress and frustration. When he is a young adolescent, maybe he will set fires or run away from home. Later, it might be his father's coping strategies that lure him powerfully: alcohol? drugs? rage?

At some point, he will most likely have to stand up to his father physically in order to protect his mother. At that time, either he or your husband will leave the home.

If he is a very strong young man, he will continue to prepare for adulthood amidst the turmoil at home. He will not abandon his schooling. He will make his way in the world. However, he will always be at risk for behaving like his father or marrying a woman who exhibits similar traits.

I strongly believe a child cannot be smiling if a mother is "screaming" (apologies for this reference to the title thread). If only you could protect him from this and protect his father at the same time. Right now, you cannot.

[sweetheart]

KateCat, our sons role is not to soothe his father, he doesn't do it, he has never done it and he is never going to do it. Our sons role in life is to be a child, to play, to have fun and to be protected from harm by his parents. Despite what my husband is going through, we are still able to be his parents.

My husband has never laid a finger on me, nor has he threatened me other than that one time many years ago. If there was even a sense that my husband might hurt me I would not be posting here because I would not need to. I would not be with him.

My husband is upstairs at the moment reading our son a bedtime story, my son has no clue about what happened today. Despite all the chaos our sons day to day life has never changed.

I am screaming, I am screaming because I need support for me, I need someone to talk to and I want mental health services to start doing their job.

I post here for clarification and help on how to move forward, not on how to be a good mother, I am that already. What I am loosing sight of is me, not me as a parent.

I completely respect what you have written, but this does not resemble our life and if  it did my decision would be easy, I would be divorced.

[KateCat]

Any help for you will be help also for your son.  

I don't in any way think that you are expecting your son to caretake his father. What I do think will happen, though, and pretty soon, is that your son will become much more attuned to his father's emotions than to his own.

My father was never physically violent. But I never realized that my poor brother was not only lacking in an adult male role model but that he spent his childhood trying to be the responsible male in our family.

I will leave you with one last suggestion: If you can, read as many posts by livednlearned as possible. She had to walk in some of your very same steps--mediating between a father and a son--and she changed quite a bit in the process. I think you will see a kindred spirit in her.

ADDED: Oh, and one more thing I did want to mention, as it seems that both you and I are married to men who have received a diagnosis of paranoid schizophrenia. It is my understanding (and also personal experience) that almost by definition a person afflicted with this disorder will be, at least periodically, convinced that close family members are conspiring against him or her. So this is additionally rough for family.

[sweetheart]

Thanks KateCat, for all that you have said. Today has been really helpful, hard but helpful.

[KateCat]

sweetheart,

I am in awe of your efforts and regret that I have probably expressed myself too harshly. I have every faith in you.

Have you ever seen the Hollywood movie A Beautiful Mind? It chronicles the mental health struggles of Dr. John Nash, a U.S. physicist who was eventually awarded a Nobel Prize. (There's a huge biographical book that it's based on, but that would be for another time if you really wanted to wade through it. It's fascinating and much more nuanced than the movie.) It gives a compelling portrait of his descent into paranoid schizophrenia, and of its effect on his family as well. It also illustrates the common pattern of a person moving from behavior that is mostly just "eccentric" to behavior that is obvious critical mental illness. Age 30 is a key time for many, as it was for Nash and may also have been for your husband. (Age 35 or so was for mine.)

Does the UK have any social services funds to allow a married man to have anything like a small respite dwelling, so he can avoid some family stress when he is feeling dysregulated? (I was very impressed watching the opening ceremonies of the London Summer Olympics a couple years ago when it featured a lengthy segment on the founding of the NHS system and its effect on the nation's children. I know we haven't come so far in helping adults in distress. This is very true in the U.S. as well.)

[refusetosuccumb]

I ultimately became a trigger for my ex. The kiddos seem to be his shining light too. Now they see the good side of daddy more often, as my ex takes each one individually overnight.  It can ba done I wish you peave in whatever direction your life is taking.

[sweetheart]

My dBPDh said fathering our son was the best thing that ever happened in his life, when I look at them together i believe him, their love for each other is tangible 

refusetosuccumb can you tell me some more about becoming the trigger for your husband when you next around.

Thanks though for your input.

Thank you for all the replies.

Not screaming today

[KateCat]

It's so good to hear of your son's love of dance, and even more so of his success.

[refusetosuccumb]

Sweetheart, forgive me for copying and pasting but I've finally figured out how to explain how I trigger him. I originally wrote this on my own thread on the Co-parenting board. 

He gets along really well when it's just him and the kids, but I always trigger him when I'm present.  It's emotionally exhausting for me to keep my cool when I have to interact with him.  I refuse to engage in front of the kids.  My role has, ultimately, become one of a mom to him.  More than I'm totally comfortable with, to be honest.  His own mom has big issues and our separation has triggered HER (like I don't have enough on my plate, right?).  She made all sorts of plans to help him to move into his own place, pay for hooking up phone/internet (he has enough to live on from his disability, but the extras would be tough for him to do on his own), cosigning a lease.  She totally bailed on him at the last minute.  I ultimately stepped in and asked for help from social assistance (I work for a division of social assistance, but not one that can help my ex directly).  They got him his own place, hooked up internet and phone, and he's settled in now.  So I don't DIRECTLY help him but my connections have come in handy.  To me, the kids need a safe place to visit with their dad.  By helping him, I'm helping them.  I can't seem to do anything better than accept this as is for now until everyone accepts the new normal.  I've set boundaries with him (I won't lend him cash, but I will make phone calls on his behalf for basic needs he has).  For example, he needs a bed.  I called an agency and got him one for free.  

I'm both a savior to him and a trigger for his mom issues.  I read through the Staying Board for tips on how to deal with him when we do have to interact but will ultimately never go back to being married to him.  This is only 7 weeks out of our marriage.  I talk weekly with my T, read these boards every night, and try to make some normalcy for myself.  The kids are thriving, that's the most important part.  My issues are my own and I'm trying to work through them.