How do you all deal with other people?

[crookedeuphoria]

You know. The ones who say you're better off? Or that there's a light at the end of the tunnel. Or you'll get over it. My one friend (who knows the most about my r/s) actually said that I will probably be happy when he moves on to someone else because then he'll leave me alone. Uhhh. Yeah, not so much. I am SO angry. I'm angry at him. I'm angry at me. I'm angry at my friend who doesn't get it (to the point where I don't even want to talk to her anymore because her Mary Poppins attitude pisses me off). I don't want to be angry anymore. He is gone (and his anger was the main reason I have finally said enough) but the anger is still here permeating everything.

[fromheeltoheal]

Anger is a secondary emotion, an outward projection of whatever's underneath, usually hurt/sadness.  And anger is also a phase of detachment and the only way out is through.  I was angry, extremely angry, for many months, but it passed and I settled into the emotions underneath, which also passed with time.  The important thing is to feel everything all the way, the only way to get it out.  I'm lucky the wrong person didn't say the wrong thing when I was in anger mode, I'd probably be in jail if they did, but eventually I learned that it was important to feel the anger without creating more wreckage, and vigorous workouts at the gym were a good way to burn up all that energy.

People on these boards understand, as do some folks in the mental health professions, but although your friends may mean well, they usually don't understand the disorder and the effect it has on us when we were enmeshed with it.  If talking it out is the main way you process, you may want to find a professional to talk to who knows about the disorder, not all do.  Take care of you!

[Blimblam]

for me I accepted they do not know what they are talking about. When I do talk to them  explain this it 10x more difficult than a normal break up.  How I had my sould sucked out of me by a vampire and am an empty shell.  I also tell them unless they have gone through it they don't understand.  Oh, and I tell them being dismissive of what I am actually telling them is invalidating and hurts me further.

[crookedeuphoria]

Anger. Hurt and sad. Numb. Those are the only emotions I am feeling these days. I like numb the best  :'(

I tried working out this morning. I made it 15 minutes which was more than yesterday so go me.

[seeking balance]

You know. The ones who say you're better off? Or that there's a light at the end of the tunnel. Or you'll get over it. My one friend (who knows the most about my r/s) actually said that I will probably be happy when he moves on to someone else because then he'll leave me alone. Uhhh. Yeah, not so much. I am SO angry. I'm angry at him. I'm angry at me. I'm angry at my friend who doesn't get it (to the point where I don't even want to talk to her anymore because her Mary Poppins attitude pisses me off). I don't want to be angry anymore. He is gone (and his anger was the main reason I have finally said enough) but the anger is still here permeating everything.

you are raw, you need your emotions validated - not problems solved actually - the space to feel your entire range of emotions.

Unfortunately, many friends just don't have the capacity to understand this - for whatever reason.  They mean well, but they likely cannot understand.  My friends changed during all this too - a lot of things are changing for you right now.

As H2H said, anger is a mask for hurt - leaning into the anger will help you get into the pain... . through the pain is how we heal.

Keep posting, keep reading, let yourself be where you need to be emotionally.

Peace,

SB

[crookedeuphoria]

It is like this double edged sword. We have been invalidated for so long in our r/s, and now we are being invalidated all over again in our break up. It is very frustrating. At the same time, I am probably focusing on the wrong thing anyway.

I like the sound of "lean in to the anger" though I'm not really sure what it means. Any suggestions as to how I do that?

[seeking balance]

I like the sound of "lean in to the anger" though I'm not really sure what it means. Any suggestions as to how I do that?

many techniques - one is to really feel it (not act on it) but get pissed.  Write out or say all the things you can think of to be pissed about - I have joked before, take a bath with your anger.  Feel it.  I did a lot of walking and talking to myself, some pillow hitting, hot yoga where I pushed my body to the limits... . The dam will break and the tears will flow.  Anger is protecting you from the pain right now - it is an emotion, an energy that needs to be in motion to pass through.  It is easy to get stuck in it because it is safer... . eventually, we all get sick of our own anger, it becomes exhausting.

Do you happen to be working with a T on your own stuff?

[fromheeltoheal]

I like the sound of "lean in to the anger" though I'm not really sure what it means. Any suggestions as to how I do that?

And never, ever make yourself wrong for being angry.  Emotions are never wrong.  And it's counterproductive to overanalyze what you've been through when the emotions are strong, better to just burn through the energy and let it dissipate, which it will, then you can get into the underlying stuff going on.  Validate your emotions, all of them.

[seeking balance]

Validate your emotions, all of them.

This is good advice - validate the emotion, feel it - be mindful not to "react" poorly however... . when in that raw space, it is best to stay away from drugs or alcohol... . rarely does anything good result from combining anger with that.

[Arminius]

Ultimately, we are better off, we will get over it and there is light.

We can't expect someone who hasn't experienced to to fully get it, no more than we can explain what a burn feels like to someone who has never been burned.

[crookedeuphoria]

Okay Feel the anger. I can do that. I even have a punching bag that I can use. I'm not working with a T, I don't have insurance and I am a single mother so I don't have the money. I am going to a spiritual "church" and have been able to speak to one of the teachers there.  I used to think most of my crap had been worked through but old wounds have definitely been opened. I used to tell my uBPDXbf that I felt like I had given him a roadmap in ways to hurt me, just by telling him about all of the stuff I (thought I) had overcome.

I think about him as two people. The one who loved me and the other one who took him away. I write to the one who loved me as if he can hear me (I don't send them or anything). Do you suppose this is healthy or super unhealthy? I know at some point I will have to wrap my head around the fact that all of him is him but I miss him, the one who loved me. It is so hard to mourn when it is so convoluted and messed up.

[Red Sky]

I love the notion that it's okay to be angry! It's one of those thing which is do often condemned... . Yet at the same time when the wounds are fresh, doesn't anger help you to keep away? The anger fades, but initially it helped me greatly... . even though it doesn't seem like a healthy long term attitude.

[fromheeltoheal]

I used to think most of my crap had been worked through but old wounds have definitely been opened. I used to tell my uBPDXbf that I felt like I had given him a roadmap in ways to hurt me, just by telling him about all of the stuff I (thought I) had overcome.

Yes, it can seem malicious, the way the disorder manifests.  Remember that a borderline is attachment-driven, they continually recreate the attachment they never successfully detached from in infancy, so they have a 'way' of worming their way into our psyche, busting through boundaries, to create the unhealthy fusing of two psyches to create one 'person', as opposed to a healthy partnership of two autonomous individuals, two 'selves'.  And then when the idealization phase ends, all of that gets ripped out, painful as hell.  But the good news is a borderline is an excellent mirror, they show us how we've felt about ourselves since childhood in no uncertain terms, which can be very beneficial in our own growth moving forward.

I think about him as two people. The one who loved me and the other one who took him away. I write to the one who loved me as if he can hear me (I don't send them or anything). Do you suppose this is healthy or super unhealthy?  I know at some point I will have to wrap my head around the fact that all of him is him but I miss him, the one who loved me. It is so hard to mourn when it is so convoluted and messed up.

The viewpoint I like is that a borderline, someone without a fully-formed self, and therefore unstable self, becomes a chameleon, mirrors the good they see in you, becomes who they think they need to be to affect an attachment.  So when we fall in love with that, we fall in love with the good in ourselves, we fall in love with ourselves, not a bad thing at all.  Take that in.  

And then there's the part, at least in my case, where I fell in love with a fantasy that didn't exist, a combination of my good being reflected back to me and my own hopes and dreams, and then I projected that on my ex, and assumed it was real.  Letting go of that fantasy was very painful, but the feelings were real, and with growth and healing comes the opportunity to really have them with someone who doesn't have a mental illness.  

It's helpful, as you feel anger and work through that, that you start to shift the focus from him to you, just a little, and see if any component of the 'him' who loved you was you loving yourself, how that made you feel, and how you can own that and take it into the future, away from him.  Take care of you!

[goldylamont]

Good discussion on Anger.

I wanted to add that I don't see Anger simply as a mask for fear/sadness, although it is the emotion that often precedes these. For me it's been healthiest to see Anger as our Protector. for all of the boundary busting that happens with pwBPD our anger is there to set a boundary.

anger is the guardian to our vulnerable selves. this is why fear and sadness come afterwards--they only occur when anger has cleared the path of any violence directed at you. and then, when your anger is satisfied that you are safe, it can move on and then the healing sadness be felt.

think about it, if you don't get angry when someone is going way past your boundaries this is terribly unhealthy. this is why people recycle all the time--they are sad/vulnerable/fearful of losing someone that is abusing them. where is their anger? but proper anger would tell whatever it was that was threatening you: "BACK OFF OR I WILL END YOU!"   And don't we all wish we had a bit more access to let anger flow like this when necessary?

the time i've spent on these boards i realize that the majority of the participants are co-dependant in some ways. some have issues with conflict so they try to avoid it even when it's unavoidable. some put others' feelings and concerns above their own, either out of a belief that this is good or that they aren't good enough. i feel a common thread here is people not trusting in or knowing how to use their anger.

destruction is a form of creation within itself. sometimes it's good to let things pass. to peacefully wait for things to be over. yet there is healing power in destroying old ways of thinking. ripping apart, stomping on and burning bad contracts that you've made with yourself. the phrase "breaking an attachment" indicates violence itself. in less severe cases maybe just a push or shove off of you is all that's needed. in any case, anger will be there for you to help in this regard if you allow it to do it's proper job. which is to keep you safe  

[fromheeltoheal]

For me it's been healthiest to see Anger as our Protector. for all of the boundary busting that happens with pwBPD our anger is there to set a boundary.

anger is the guardian to our vulnerable selves. this is why fear and sadness come afterwards--they only occur when anger has cleared the path of any violence directed at you. and then, when your anger is satisfied that you are safe, it can move on and then the healing sadness be felt.

Yes!  I agree goldy; the anger I eventually found was the first step in taking my power back, yes protective, but also more than protective.  It takes force to push our boundaries back out where they need to be, and then there was some retribution for the boundary busting that happened to begin with, and as soon as she interpreted that as loss of control of me, it ended.  As it should have.

[crookedeuphoria]

I agree that the anger at him feels better than the helplessness did. When we were together it was always easier for me once he started spewing his venom becaue I would eventually get angry. I wish I was angry at him all the time but the sad, hopeless, lost feeling creeps in when I least expect it.

The anger at everything else is what I'm struggling with. I'm not an angry person. Honestly, I think feeling SO angry SO much of the time is one of the things that finally made me see the light (that, and I recognized the gas lighting starting). I don't want to be angry, I don't like how it feels. It makes my stomach hurt and it makes my shoulders get all scrunchy.

[fromheeltoheal]

I agree that the anger at him feels better than the helplessness did.

Yes, that's what taking our power back feels like, better.

The anger at everything else is what I'm struggling with. I'm not an angry person. Honestly, I think feeling SO angry SO much of the time is one of the things that finally made me see the light (that, and I recognized the gas lighting starting). I don't want to be angry, I don't like how it feels. It makes my stomach hurt and it makes my shoulders get all scrunchy.

I can relate.  After I left her I got even angrier, as more things became clear, and then I got angry at everything too.  Anger is stressful, and I eventually got physically sick because of it, but that passed too, and I learned the fastest way through was to just feel it all the way and express it as healthfully as possible, i.e. no nastygrams to the ex, don't punch anyone, don't try and drown it in booze, just go to the gym and take it out on some weights.

But the good news is not only were my boundaries reestablished, they are reinforced.  I don't put up with sht from anyone anymore, maybe an overshoot in a few cases, but that's OK, long time coming, something I have the relationship to thank for.

[crookedeuphoria]

I need to remember the gym (I say as I am sitting here having a beer  ).

I did kind of stand up for myself today. Well, I don't know if it was really appropriate as it was my friend and she meant well. "Is not talking to him bringing you any peace?" And while I wanted to scream "NO I DON'T HAVE ANY PEACE, ARE YOU CRAZY" what I said was that I didn't feel like we should talk about it anymore because although I know she just wants me to be happy, I just can't talk about it right now. I'm SO sick of hearing "well, when I broke up with so and so... . " YAH! I know. I've had break ups before too, I don't understand it either!

My skin is crawling with the anger. I will feel it all the way. Starting tomorrow. After I finish the beer.

[Arminius]

For me, the moment I found some peace was when she overstepped so far that I had to involve law enforcement.

It was an epiphany. She has nothing for me, why should I allow THAT creature to affect me?

[Blimblam]

I'm envious of your peoples anger.  I used to have anger issues as a kid and I worked really hard to not get angry.  So when the BPD person or their narc friends did things to hurt me I usually manifested my anger much after the fact making me look like the bad guy for holding a grudge.  I feel sadness enstead of anger and this seems to create more issues when dealing with pd people then immediate outright anger.  Any thoughts on this?  If I'm hijacking with this post I appologize and let me know. I'm still getting capstones to forum etiquette. 

[woodsposse]

you are raw, you need your emotions validated - not problems solved actually - the space to feel your entire range of emotions.

Unfortunately, many friends just don't have the capacity to understand this - for whatever reason.  They mean well, but they likely cannot understand.  

Luckily, I had someone in my  life right after me and my (now) ex-wife split up who was a friend who allowed me to feel the entire range of my emotions.  She has been a great friend (she lives in a different state) - and she was also going through grief (her husband passed away).  So we have been there for each other in that respect and have been as open and raw with each other.

I have done everything with her (well... . on the phone anyway) - laughed, cried, yelled, cried, been happy, sad, confused... . hell, drunk off my arse and not even remembering the conversation.  I have shared my ups and downs - ins and outs.  Confusing talk as well as very insightful speak.  Never once feeling I had to shut something down or couldn't feel or express wherever I was at that moment.

(well maybe once or twice... . but then we talked about it... . long story).

I say all of that to say this - some of my other friends tried to be there and understand what I was going through, but they just couldn't.  Sometimes I just seemed insane (which... . I basically felt like I was).  Unfortunately I did loose a very good friend during that time and I miss that friendship.  But, there is nothing I could do or can do at this point.  So that happens from time to time.

But I was angry and bitter and hurt for a long time.  Me staying busy at work helped - but it was just a mask because when I came home I just fell apart.  But those times came to an end shortly after coming here and sharing with all of you - more folks who could understand exactly what I was going through.

I'm glad I found here just as I'm glad my friend (who is a widower) was there to let me just be... . and could understand.

You can and will get past the anger.  It will take time, and is a process (not a switch).

I promise you that.

[Red Sky]

Hmm. I don't think I have ever confessed all of my feelings to anyone. I've expressed more on this forum than to anyone in real life, ever.

Interesting conversation I had with my mother tonight. I was talking about how much I have become secure and comfortable in the job I started a year ago. She said, 'well yes, but once you go back to uni how do I trust that you're not going to go back to being stressed and beating yourself all the time? Talking about how you are a slacker because you only worked till 11pm that night and moaning constantly?'

And it made me strangely sad and angry. I've never shared all of this stuff with her because I know that she holds me fully responsible for my emotional state. She doesn't want me to be unhappy but she definitely blames me when I am. She thinks I'm a drama queen basically. I think she blames me because it hurts her to see me unhappy, and I am angry about that because it stops me opening up to her.

I am angry because she thinks that when I am blue for months on end, self-harming, showing physical symptoms of anxiety, she thinks it is because I can't handle the stress of a goddamn university degree.  I am angry because I want to tell her why I feel so bad, but I know that she will judge me for not leaving an abusive relationship, for not recognizing that it was abusive at the time, she will continue to judge me for my sexual preferences and blame them for my relationship problems. And all this from someone with whom I have been very close my whole life, and with whom I share everything except for this. But she can be so judgmental.

Maybe I should just be proud that I pretty much had a nervous breakdown and managed to pass it off as stress related to my studies. I think that's what they call high functioning.