sibling causing stress for everyone

[patsmaiz]

I have gotten alot of benefit through the years reading people's stories here and mine has built to a point where I felt a need to lay it out.  I hope at the least throwing some of this out there can add to the validation people need when they experience conflicting feelings in these situations.

So, my situation is with an older female sibling.  I recognized what was going on several years ago after a whole lifetime of things that made no sense.  When I was a child, I came home from my baseball game after being told a cheeseburger had been left there for me.  She was the only one home and she was standing there eating it.  When I got upset about it and complained, she whipped herself around the counter, pushed me on the ground and starting punching me while being considerably larger than me.  This pretty much sums up my entire experience with her.  She does and says whatever she wants and if you dare defend yourself, she goes wild.

So, more recently, she e-mailed saying she was coming to visit.  She lives an hour and a half away but insisted on a two night hotel stay.  Of course, all of the usual, the hotel wasn't good enough, the family members she was visiting just sat outside all day and caused her to get a sunburn, etc.

I knew she was goading me for two weeks in e-mail.  First she said she was coming and one of her children liked a Chinese restaurant here.  So when I wrote back saying okay, she replied telling me her other son does not like Chinese food as if it was my idea.   I put aside a whole day for her visit.  She implied that her whole family would meet up with us and we would go somewhere.  She e-mailed the day before rescheduling because someone in the family was "sick".  Then she spent the whole week e-mailing about how she didn't really want to come and wasn't sure.  So, by friday evening, I still did not know if she was even coming. Late friday night, she finally e-mailed to say she was here but leaving the next day and if I "want to get together", to call her in the morning and she "can't remember" my phone number.  I gave her the number in my e-mail reply just a week before.  

So, she finally makes her way over here in the afternoon and makes all these confusing statements about whether she is staying or leaving.  Then, she stands up and says she can't "stay out too long" because she doesn't know if she's staying.  So, she basically wasted a whole second day for me on which I made no other plans.   But, the worst part is that during her 20 minute visit here with one of her children, she was going through a bunch of freebies I had saved for her and started goading me about a very sensitive topic which I had mistakenly discussed with her years earlier.   I was abused by someone in my childhood and she was causally bringing this person up as if it was all funny and entertaining to her.  :)espite my obvious discomfort, she continued on.  My boyfriend actually said he was about to tell her to STFU.  

So, after alot of eye rolling and complaining and an endless string of bizarre comments, we all stood up to go to the park.  I stopped to go to the bathroom and when I came outside, she went crazy.  I came out smiling and said "I had to go potty" and continued to my truck.  She stood there and said "where are you going?"  I said "you said you were going to follow us."  Then she said "it looked like you were going to cross the street."   I said "I wasn't."  She insisted further "it looked like you were walking out to cross the street."  I said "I'm going to the truck."  She said "whatever, thanks for the stuff" and huffed away.  I yelled out "so you're not coming?"  She completely ignored it and I yelled again "so, you're leaving?"  Again, no answer and she just angrily got in the car.  So, I started back in my house and I got very angry and ran back to her car and knocked on the window.  When she finally unlocked the door, I opened and yelled in "it's totally obvious you were trying to start a fight with me for the last two weeks."  She shook her head and grunted no very slyly and that set me off and I yelled "___ you" and gave her the finger and walked away.  

I am disappointed in myself for letting it happen.   I feel terrible for saying that in front of my nephew.  I called the house where they were staying and apologized to my nephew explaining it was inappropriate for me to say that.  He just sounded listless and flat.   I have never ever reacted to it in all of these years.   She has continually tried for years to start fights with me.  I've never said anything like that in front of my nephews and I never even told anyone FU before.  I had a very strong feeling this would happen this weekend and I tried everything I could do to prevent it.  But, the usual trick is to catch you off guard.  The bizarreness of getting mad over me supposedly trying to cross a street caught me off guard.  

Last year, she came practically unannounced on NYE and pushed my dad to the point of losing it and then came over to me to laugh about it and mock him.  This is the only thing I have ever known of her.  Mocking and agitating people.  But, she will literally go on for hours about how everyone has victimized her.

I'd like response from people who have had to deal with nieces/nephews or other innocent bystanders getting caught in the cross fire, but please if you need to tell me to understand the abuser and they can't help it because of their problem, I'd rather not hear that.  

There is so much more to this story and why it has built up to this point despite my best efforts.  But, she really was acting bizarre and it seems she is about to blow.  I know there is nothing I can do to stop it because her aim has been to have an explosion for years and I genuinely do not feel psychologically safe around her.  No matter what I have ever said or did or didn't do, it never mattered.

[educator]

pastmaiz,

Sorry that has happened to you.  How old are her children?  If she acts like this with you, I can only imagine what her children go through.

I've gotten to a place where I'm no longer angry with the BPD person in my life and I do have compassion for them, but I also no longer speak to them.  I feel sorry for her, but my family just doesn't need that drama in our lives anymore, even if it means my kids don't see their grandmother.

It sounds like it might be beneficial to go LC with your sister or to practice MC techniques with her.  NC is rough and although it's the route my DH and I are on, it's not the route we chose.  My MIL got very angry and walked out of our lives.  She had done it before, but this time, we had gone to counseling and realized some space would be good for us.  The reason we continue to remain NC is really for the benefit of our DD's.  I truly believe a r/s they would have with my MIL would be very toxic and harmful.

Anyhow, your sister was certainly out of line and I totally get that her behavior drove you to a breaking point, but doing that in front of your nephew is just not good.  He probably sees enough of it with her as his mom (my DH had a rocky childhood at best growing up).  Do you plan on seeing your sister again soon?  Do you see your nephews often?  I think it's good you apologized to your nephew.  It might be good to see if you could take just him out sometime and hang out with just him. 

Sorry... . I don't have much other advice.  There's not much you can really do to protect your nephew from your sister.  You can only control your own reactions.  She's probably not going to change.

[patsmaiz]

pastmaiz,

Sorry that has happened to you.  How old are her children?  If she acts like this with you, I can only imagine what her children go through.

I've gotten to a place where I'm no longer angry with the BPD person in my life and I do have compassion for them, but I also no longer speak to them.  I feel sorry for her, but my family just doesn't need that drama in our lives anymore, even if it means my kids don't see their grandmother.

It sounds like it might be beneficial to go LC with your sister or to practice MC techniques with her.  NC is rough and although it's the route my DH and I are on, it's not the route we chose.  My MIL got very angry and walked out of our lives.  She had done it before, but this time, we had gone to counseling and realized some space would be good for us.  The reason we continue to remain NC is really for the benefit of our DD's.  I truly believe a r/s they would have with my MIL would be very toxic and harmful.

Anyhow, your sister was certainly out of line and I totally get that her behavior drove you to a breaking point, but doing that in front of your nephew is just not good.  He probably sees enough of it with her as his mom (my DH had a rocky childhood at best growing up).  Do you plan on seeing your sister again soon?  Do you see your nephews often?  I think it's good you apologized to your nephew.  It might be good to see if you could take just him out sometime and hang out with just him. 

Sorry... . I don't have much other advice.  There's not much you can really do to protect your nephew from your sister.  You can only control your own reactions.  She's probably not going to change.

I'm sure anyone here would understand it is hard to convey the weight of what she was doing in her brief 20 minute visit.

I have been minimal contact with her for years.  I have rarely seen my nephews their entire lives.  I am acutely aware of the fact that I can only control my reactions.  That has been my practice for 15 years with her.   I have never spoken to anyone in my entire life like that.   That's the point of why I reached out here.  I actually lost control and I really have no way to fix it.  It was completely out of character for me.  I have always maintained a neutral observing stance and only spoke in a way that favored everyone involved.  In fact, all through her abuse yesterday, I still was sitting there saying to her "I know it's hard when you didn't sleep" and "I know it's difficult to be stuck in a hotel room with 3 people."   I even said "it's okay we don't have to go anywhere, it's all good either way."   I was being exceedingly friendly with her despite her totally inappropriate comments.

I was trying to hold out until the youngest was 18 and then they could choose to communicate with me or not and I would have no contact with her.  We have always had a very good, but limited relationship with the nephews, but we have never had a close relationship.  Just sort of distant but friendly. 

No, I have no intention of ever communicating with her again because I literally do not feel safe.  The last few times I have seen her, she has goaded me about the abuse from my childhood and re triggered trauma.   And, I know that is her intent.  And, this amped up phase is all being triggered by her oldest son wanting to leave and go to college and us having encouraged him to live in the dorm 20 minutes from their house. 

She is desperately trying to keep everyone away from them so no one can influence them in a positive way.  She will not let the oldest leave and it is looking like neither of them will ever leave the house.   Their father tried to get the oldest to drive at 15 years old.  He is now 19 and does not have a license because she wouldn't let him and then she "lost his birth certificate."  There is an aunt that lives up the street from her and she is exactly the same.  Her two sons in their 30's have never left home, do not have cars, never had jobs, never had friends or girlfriends and stay in their bedrooms 24/7.  This is exactly what she is trying to do with her sons.  I was ready to accept whatever their choices were as adults.  But, I have failed now to keep at least a minimal channel open to let them know we are here for them.  But, the fact is that she has amped up her abuse toward me so severely that I just cannot deal with her regardless of the incident yesterday.   

As is common, the entire family is very messed up.  There is no one at all to communicate with.  I am the only one who basically got out, got an education, had normal relationships.   There have been tragic losses in the family due to their out of control dynamics.  The only way for me to stay safe and alive was to get away from them.  And, now she has basically turned into this as well.  Totally unsafe.   Before, she was really just a nuisance to me.  I was able to navigate it.

I am not and have never been "angry at" any family member.  But, of course behavior and treatment make me angry in the moment.   

But, it seems so obvious that telling me it is "just not good" would risk playing right into people's psychological issues having grown up in this way.   I have already said this is a problem and I feel terrible.  That wasn't good enough.  It had to be reiterated?   I am trying to find a safe place to deal with some stuff that other people understand so I do not weigh down my primary relationships.  I've been in therapy for years because of my experiences which go way beyond what I conveyed here.   

[deux soeurs]

For whatever it is worth, know that you are not alone.  I really feel for you as my older sister has abused, tortured, hurt everyone in our family.  It took me a while to figure her out and even longer to realize how toxic she is.  LC and NC are a saving grace.  No one should be subjected to what she seems to put you through.  Of course the sad outcome is not being as close to your sisters kids as you would hope.  For me, I rarely know my nieces and nephews... . she adopted many but she did so many BPD nasty things to me and my family that it was a no brainer.  When my own kids were old enough to understand, they were scared of her as when she was angry at me, if I was NC, at times she would email them.  They were young too.  You have tried to have a normal relationship with BPD sister, that is impossible as they are sick.  Keep reading up on BPD.  I am sorry she took your trusted secret and made light of it.  My sister had betrayed every secret I shared.  She still will try to kick me when I am down if I let her.  Therapy has done wonders for me.  I actually don't miss her, I miss having a "normal" and real sister.  I hope things get better for you.  You do not deserve your sisters abuse.

[patsmaiz]

For whatever it is worth, know that you are not alone.  I really feel for you as my older sister has abused, tortured, hurt everyone in our family.  It took me a while to figure her out and even longer to realize how toxic she is.  LC and NC are a saving grace.  No one should be subjected to what she seems to put you through.  Of course the sad outcome is not being as close to your sisters kids as you would hope.  For me, I rarely know my nieces and nephews... . she adopted many but she did so many BPD nasty things to me and my family that it was a no brainer.  When my own kids were old enough to understand, they were scared of her as when she was angry at me, if I was NC, at times she would email them.  They were young too.  You have tried to have a normal relationship with BPD sister, that is impossible as they are sick.  Keep reading up on BPD.  I am sorry she took your trusted secret and made light of it.  My sister had betrayed every secret I shared.  She still will try to kick me when I am down if I let her.  Therapy has done wonders for me.  I actually don't miss her, I miss having a "normal" and real sister.  I hope things get better for you.  You do not deserve your sisters abuse.

Most people do not understand this.  You don't feel a loss in this person because there never was a real connection.  You just feel like you're missing out on real relationships.  It's a very weird state to be in.  To feel like you are missing out when by all outside accounts, there's a mother there, a father, siblings, etc.  I actually grew up in a very strange circumstance.  It was a pretty large extended family.  Cousins, aunts, uncles.   Half of them lived on the same street.  But, because of circumstance, timing, and family wide dysfunction, I never had any experience of family whatsoever.  Just two people were normal with me and both are gone now.  I never experienced having grandparents, aunts, cousins.  My sisters treated me like a non entity when they weren't recruiting the neighborhood kids to taunt me on my weight and other aspects of my appearance.   

[Louise7777]

Patsmaiz, I just want to join and repeat again: you are not alone. I have a dysfunctional family too: uBPD aunts, uBPD/ HPD cousin, uNPD uncle and more... .

Like you, I miss haveing a real normal family. There´s no connection really. There was one while I accepted the role imposed on me: submission and being somehow a servant. I had a breakthough not long ago and even started a thread about it: I miss something I never had.

From my experience (and reading others here) I can tell you that if you have a BPD in your family it means there´s a lot more people who are "not normal". Maybe we didnt notice it back then (I surely didnt), but now I can see the other roles: the enablers, the uNPD that matched and married the uBPD, etc.

This made me chose "wrong friends": abusive and selfish people. But that can be fixed, I got NC with them and decided not to take any kind of abuse or disrespect anymore. Now I chose my friends in a wiser way: they listen too, not only talk. They are there for me too, its a 2-way r/s.

If I may offer some advice, is to stay away from your sister, as you are doing already... . It seems to me that you felt guilty somehow for telling her to f*** off... . Well, honestly I dont blame you at all. Its just abuse and more abuse over the years and you just blew, even knowing she was looking for a fight. Its notmal and unfortunatelly it happened to me too. I dont like being thrown out of my balance like that at all, nowadays Im able to remove myself from the situation and if I have to stay, I just look at them in disbelief... . They usually expect me to rage and when I dont, they eventually stop, I dont give them the satisfaction... .

Wish you the best.

[patsmaiz]

Patsmaiz, I just want to join and repeat again: you are not alone. I have a dysfunctional family too: uBPD aunts, uBPD/ HPD cousin, uNPD uncle and more... .

Like you, I miss haveing a real normal family. There´s no connection really. There was one while I accepted the role imposed on me: submission and being somehow a servant. I had a breakthough not long ago and even started a thread about it: I miss something I never had.

From my experience (and reading others here) I can tell you that if you have a BPD in your family it means there´s a lot more people who are "not normal". Maybe we didnt notice it back then (I surely didnt), but now I can see the other roles: the enablers, the uNPD that matched and married the uBPD, etc.

This made me chose "wrong friends": abusive and selfish people. But that can be fixed, I got NC with them and decided not to take any kind of abuse or disrespect anymore. Now I chose my friends in a wiser way: they listen too, not only talk. They are there for me too, its a 2-way r/s.

If I may offer some advice, is to stay away from your sister, as you are doing already... . It seems to me that you felt guilty somehow for telling her to f*** off... . Well, honestly I dont blame you at all. Its just abuse and more abuse over the years and you just blew, even knowing she was looking for a fight. Its notmal and unfortunatelly it happened to me too. I dont like being thrown out of my balance like that at all, nowadays Im able to remove myself from the situation and if I have to stay, I just look at them in disbelief... . They usually expect me to rage and when I dont, they eventually stop, I dont give them the satisfaction... .

Wish you the best.

Thanks Louise.  I do feel guilty.  After years of remaining calm, I let her bring me to her level.  If it had just been her, I would have been glad I said it.  But, everything happened so fast and my nephew had no idea what was going on.   My boyfriend and I believe after looking at it the next couple of days that she engineered the whole thing.  She set me up inside by bringing a very sensitive topic up in front of everyone and acting extremely miserable overall, then outside told her son to get in the car so he couldn't hear what she was saying to me about crossing the street.

This is definitely stuff I did not notice until well into adulthood.  But, it goes all the way back I can see now.  Growing up, there was one time in my entire childhood that a "party" was thrown for me.  A whole two people showed up.   It was my confirmation and an aunt and uncle were coming over.  She asked my dad if she could hang a painting she did of a full on naked woman for them to see.  I was 14, and she was 19/20.  He told her no.  We all came back to find the painting hanging at the door and my dad freaked out and ripped it off the wall.   My aunt was so disturbed by the scene, she left after about ten minutes.  It was the one time I ever got attention and she couldn't handle it.  She had to wrangle the attention back to herself by any means. 

I'm glad you were able to find new kinds of friends.   It gives me hope to know it is possible. 

[Louise7777]

Patsmaiz, Im sorry for your experiences. But I have to say Im not surprised one bit, unfortunately.

Im very sorry for all that happened on your Confirmation. They have respect for nothing! My uBPDs aunts usually ruined my birthdays as a child, either by fighting previously and not showing up or making scenes when they did... . It HAS to be about THEM. They had no shame in competing with a child. Must be their histrionic traits. My grandpa used to call his daughter (uBPD) "Sarah Bernardt"... . You can imagine how much she adores a stage... .

I completely empathize with you and Im glad you realize many things now when you look back.

Id tell you one more thing: they use people we care as shields. Your sister knows you wouldnt rage or answer her back in front of her kid, so she uses him. She has no problem, no concerns regarding her own kid. We became hostages cause we dont dare to put people under stress like they do. My uBPD aunt used this tactic her whole life: she used her elderly mum (my grandma - I suspect she was BPD too) as her shield... . We would give in in front of my grandma because of her age, but my aunt had no problem at yelling at us in front of her... . And she always took her daughter´s side... . She was the golden child. Today she uses a sister who´s sick as a shield... .

What worked for me was to distance myself and when she "misbehaves" (rages or is evil and sarcastic) I just leave. No fight, nothing. "Oh, I have to go" and I leave. Things improved dramatically after that. But as you know, there´s no relationship, just a very cautious small talk, since I meet her once or twice a year (we live 5 mins away). But what can I do? Im not a punching bag and if she cant behave, its her loss. Like Cesar Millan said: dont reward bad behaviour.