Broke NC

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

So after being broken up with about 2 weeks ago and then sending an email telling my uBPDexBF a week ago telling him to NOT contact me in an way, I broke NC last night. Well, he sent 5 emails after the initial one when I told him to leave me alone forever, starting out nice then ending very nasty. Chastising me for "not caring" etc.

Well he emailed me a week to the day of the final email and I didn't respond. It was a song and he sounded sad, like he missed me, like he always does at some point after breaking up with me. Then sent 2 more that day... . all nice.

Well last night I got the final one and had just got home after spending time with an ex I haven't spoken to or seen in 7 years. He was also maybe the only sane boyfriend I've ever had. I got home and had run a red light on the way since I was super upset about everything that has been going on in the past few weeks (my dog died, I got fired, ex broke up with me, then seeing my OTHER ex and him being so concerned when I broke down and told him what has rEALLY been going on in my life) and when I got home and saw the email from the BPDex telling me he had sent some long Hangouts message that I never got, I responded.

He didn't write back til early this morning saying he wanted to talk in person and had told me things he wanted to say in the messages i didn't get. I told him I was in a terrible place and just wanted the pain from all this to go away. Then he asked if I wanted to know what he said, I said yes (so stupid, thinking it would be something of an apology? HA!). He then sent me a giant message all about the stupid incident that basically started this whole thing, which was NOTHING.

Reading it just again, crystallized how f'ing insane he is. This was over 2 weeks ago and he is still completely wound up and thinking about it. It was because I didn't go over to his house (where he lives with his parents) when he was "sick". He wasn't THAT sick as he was at the bar an hour after breaking up with me posting mean things about me on Instagram.

So I didn't respond. He wrote me this tonight : "Hope you got my email Veronykah... didnt hear from you from my responded email... well thats ok... hope your day an night is going well... you know how to get a hold of me...

Take care. . Hope to hear from you soon... if not... thats ok "

I didn't respond which was followed up by this:

"Why am I here... emailing you like a total fool... guess I still have love for this relationship... . you don't seem to care... guess your right what you said this morning... you dont care anymore... .

Guess im wasting my time here... you rather put pics up on your instagram instead of emailing me... . its ok...

I really hope you find happiness veronykah... I really do!

Now ill just be saying my good bye... . thats what you really want... right?

At least I tried to be honest an care about emailing you... .   you don't... . sorry to have bothered you Veronykah. .

Bye Veronykah"

I was so depressed this morning I told him I didn't care about anything which is what the beginning was about, of course it was ALL about him. And yeah, I put up a pic on Instagram, which I am apparently not allowed to do if i don't email him. He can't even understand why I don't want to talk to him or even respect my silence. It's so sad. I really want to rip into him about all of this, but that is what I always do.

I'm meeting with my T tomorrow so hopefully we can talk.

To me the saddest part is one of my best friends and my other ex both seemed genuinely concerned for my physical safety when I told them about him. When your friends have concerns like that... . wow. You are in a bad place.

I wish I could just forget all about him and HATE that I still have such strong feelings for him, it's killing me.

Sorry this post is so incoherent, all of this has made me incompetent when it comes to writing and thinking which is also nothing like I would normally be. Such a bad place.

[Veronykah]

So after being broken up with about 2 weeks ago and then sending an email telling my uBPDexBF a week ago telling him to NOT contact me in an way, I broke NC last night. Well, he sent 5 emails after the initial one when I told him to leave me alone forever, starting out nice then ending very nasty. Chastising me for "not caring" etc.

Well he emailed me a week to the day of the final email and I didn't respond. It was a song and he sounded sad, like he missed me, like he always does at some point after breaking up with me. Then sent 2 more that day... . all nice.

Well last night I got the final one and had just got home after spending time with an ex I haven't spoken to or seen in 7 years. He was also maybe the only sane boyfriend I've ever had. I got home and had run a red light on the way since I was super upset about everything that has been going on in the past few weeks (my dog died, I got fired, ex broke up with me, then seeing my OTHER ex and him being so concerned when I broke down and told him what has rEALLY been going on in my life) and when I got home and saw the email from the BPDex telling me he had sent some long Hangouts message that I never got, I responded.

He didn't write back til early this morning saying he wanted to talk in person and had told me things he wanted to say in the messages i didn't get. I told him I was in a terrible place and just wanted the pain from all this to go away. Then he asked if I wanted to know what he said, I said yes (so stupid, thinking it would be something of an apology? HA!). He then sent me a giant message all about the stupid incident that basically started this whole thing, which was NOTHING.

Reading it just again, crystallized how f'ing insane he is. This was over 2 weeks ago and he is still completely wound up and thinking about it. It was because I didn't go over to his house (where he lives with his parents) when he was "sick". He wasn't THAT sick as he was at the bar an hour after breaking up with me posting mean things about me on Instagram.

So I didn't respond. He wrote me this tonight : "Hope you got my email Veronykah... didnt hear from you from my responded email... well thats ok... hope your day an night is going well... you know how to get a hold of me...

Take care. . Hope to hear from you soon... if not... thats ok "

I didn't respond which was followed up by this:

"Why am I here... emailing you like a total fool... guess I still have love for this relationship... . you don't seem to care... guess your right what you said this morning... you dont care anymore... .

Guess im wasting my time here... you rather put pics up on your instagram instead of emailing me... . its ok...

I really hope you find happiness veronykah... I really do!

Now ill just be saying my good bye... . thats what you really want... right?

At least I tried to be honest an care about emailing you... .   you don't... . sorry to have bothered you Veronykah. .

Bye Veronykah"

I was so depressed this morning I told him I didn't care about anything which is what the beginning was about, of course it was ALL about him. And yeah, I put up a pic on Instagram, which I am apparently not allowed to do if i don't email him. He can't even understand why I don't want to talk to him or even respect my silence. It's so sad. I really want to rip into him about all of this, but that is what I always do.

I'm meeting with my T tomorrow so hopefully we can talk.

To me the saddest part is one of my best friends and my other ex both seemed genuinely concerned for my physical safety when I told them about him. When your friends have concerns like that... . wow. You are in a bad place.

I wish I could just forget all about him and HATE that I still have such strong feelings for him, it's killing me.

Sorry this post is so incoherent, all of this has made me incompetent when it comes to writing and thinking which is also nothing like I would normally be. Such a bad place.

[Narellan]

I hear you Veronykah. It's so painful. You can never win with BPD it's not even worth trying. Justifying yourself gets you no where.

This is why NC is recommended. If you respond in any way you will be gutted again by more criticism and still be painted black. It's a no win.

I'm so sorry to hear you're in such a bad place. And it's understandable to think you can reply to a loved one who is reaching out to you. You simply can't when it's a BPD sufferer. It puts you back in your recovery process.

You've had a really rough time lately, and that often signifies a change is on its way. When you hit rockbottom the only way is up. Be kind to yourself. Be angry with him from a distance. Choose NC and focus on yourself. It will be tough for many weeks, but there is light at the end of the tunnel. Big hugs to you  

[babyducks]

Veronykah,

You have so much going on.   It would knock anyone off their feet.  Multiple losses like you have experienced would drive any strong person to their knees.   I too have lost a cherished dog and I don't for a minute underestimate how difficult that is.  Add the job loss and the BPD breakup, and I would suspect that your stress level has to be through the roof.

Here is what I noticed about your post.  YOU have all this difficult stuff happening, and his concern is about him (of course).  and whether he is getting an answer to his emails.   No where did I see anything that said "I know you are having a difficult time and I am here for you."   "How can I help you get through this Veronykah" or even "I know you are hurting right now:.

There is no acknowledgement of your point of view, ideas or emotions in anything you posted for us.  And that 

To me, (and I am no expert) the line

At least I tried to be honest an care about emailing you... .   you don't... . sorry to have bothered you Veronykah

is dangerously close to emotional abuse.  The subtle look how good I am and how you are not.   He tells you "he is honest and cares and you don't".   Which frankly is not a judgment he gets to make.   Its bologna.

I assume he knows what has been happening in your life and he chooses to be contentious about an instagram picture?      Really?

I agree with Narellan, time to focus on just being good to yourself.  Pay extra attention to sleeping, eating and exercising.   Treat yourself to something that will recharge your psyche energy.   Go to the park.   Do simple easy things that will not add any volatility to your already overtaxed self.   Don't worry about him.   He is fine.   Its time to put yourself on the top of your list.

'ducks

[Veronykah]

This was about as close to caring about me I got in this whole string of emails :

"No I mean... I rather us talk... emailing each other back an forth is non- sence... but if you prefer to email... then ok... if thats more better for you...

Your in the worst place ever? Sorry you are... i wish you can be happy with the job of your dreams... I know thats most bad part it... right?

Well you wanted me to leave you alone... maybe all the pain will stop...

Maybe thats what I have shouldv done... . you wanna know what I wrote last night? Let me know an I will tell you... cause its been hurting since then...

Well hope your pain goes away an your not suffering anymore... I wish that for you... "

As for emotional abuse, oh yeah I'm pretty sure that's what he's been doing to me for a long time now.

Silent treatment not for days but sometimes for a week or more. He changed his number at one point, sent me a letter telling me he never loved me and loves to tell me how I "don't care" and am "selfish", when my dog just died because of a stupid argument he had with me, over NOTHING yet again.

I know I need to step away, it is just so difficult because he was THERE the whole time the dog was dying and when I put him to sleep. That is now burned in my memory. He held my hand and cried with me the whole time, then spent the next few days being really good to me. Which obviously only lasts so long. At one point in an argument he even told me not to "bring the dog into it" since I was losing it and already very sad before he started with all his drama.

Its all so so stupid. I'm here because you are the only people who can even get past "why are you still even talking to him!" like all my friends.

Got this this morning after not responding to his last rambling all about him email:

"So thats it? Ok got the hint veronykah... wow...

You have nothing to say... . "

[patientandclear]

I'm so sorry this is such a rough time.

About this communication: to me, unannounced silence in either direction is unnecessarily hurtful. Having chosen to communicate, I would not just drop out again without respectfully saying why. PwBPD are hurt by passive aggressive silent treatment just as we are, as is clear from his reaction today. If you need space and time to heal, why not say so? And if you can find it in your heart to acknowledge his statements that he too is in pain, maybe that could bring this particular exchange to a more graceful close that you can rest easy about.

He sounds confused and sad, which makes sense and is not nearly as insulting as many communications we get about how everything is great! Why not just acknowledge that at face value and neutralize the drama in that way?

[Veronykah]

If you need space and time to heal, why not say so?

I want to so badly, but I don't want to get sucked back in. I just got an email... . I had a gofundme page set up for my dog about a year and a half ago when he got really sick. The ex just donated $150 to it and said some really nice things. This is why it is SO hard for me. He can be mean and really plays with my emotions but then he does really nice things and compared to the evil things I read about others he isn't like that. I think his issues are a lot more inner directed and it makes me feel bad for him, and when you say he sounds confused and sad, he probably is. But I do not know how to handle it. I don't.

I am confused and sad too. All I want is to get back together with him and make all this hurt go away but it never does. It seemed to be ok for the past 8 months then he left for 3 weeks, then saying he got his life together and made some big decisions on his own that he needed to make he came back to be there for me and my dog. Then all the drama started after.

I am just so confused and hurt and sick of it. I just want the NICE guy to stay but I don't know if he is capable of that.

:'(

[Narellan]

Your ex may not have BPD and if he's not like other stories you read on here, maybe give him the benefit of the doubt and reply. Tell him how you feel. Sad, alone and confused. If he rages or is negative then you can steer clear. But at this point he seems to be trying to reconcile. All relationships have problems at times. He may just have made a mistake splitting up with you and you may be able to work through it. But you both sound dad and lost and going NC isn't going to hel you much. I agree with patient and clear. Talk to him at least one last time.

[patientandclear]

For what it's worth, I do see all kinds of BPD traits here and in your other posts. Not everyone with BPD rages, or more accurately, not everyone with BPD rages outwardly. My ex's anger was directed inwardly--he trained himself that that was smarter from the time he was in his teens. No outward anger. But he is a very angry man. His withdrawals which often would be labeled silent treatment on here appear to be him processing anger inwardly and not showing it to his partner/family member/friend. Sometimes it takes him a long time. Your guy sounds somewhat similar.

Also remember that push-pull includes pull ... . Solicitous, kind, loving gestures making you feel special and wanted and cherished and needed.  That that happens doesn't mean he doesn't have BPD. They are all nice when they're nice.

I wasn't in any way advocating that you stay unless you find you have a particular fortitude for handling that kind of push-pull dynamic, including in his case periodic silent treatment, and think you can tolerate that indefinitely. Most can't do that. I tried and found I can't do that (in my case there were other women added in).

You can decide separately the question of communicating a clear and kind goodbye if you need to step away, and the question of whether you are staying or otherwise. You don't have to handle this any way you're not ready to or not feeling confident about. If you're not sure, you might consider telling him you need a bit of space to gather your thoughts; you'll be back in touch when and if you can be; you hear that he's sad and hurting and you want him to know you are too.

[Veronykah]

Your ex may not have BPD and if he's not like other stories you read on here, maybe give him the benefit of the doubt and reply.

From that I mean he doesn't come across as mean and getting joy out of it or manipulative on purpose. He seems to be a good person deep down inside but just has ZERO control of his emotions. If he feels bad he needs to do whatever he needs to do to feel better, consequences be damned.

He seems incapable of thinking in the big picture and goes wherever his emotions lead him. If he thinks I didn't reply to a text fast enough, I don't love him. I'm ignoring him. I'm doing it on purpose because I don't care about him.

It's all about him him him when he's in that place.

When he gets to a REALLY bad place he rages, he comes over and is a totally different person. His EYES look different. He stood in my bedroom and watched me sob after yelling at me and listened to me tell him how horrible it was that he was doing it to me when the ashes for my dog came home the same day. He had ZERO emotion about it and tore into me more about my selfishness.

He started therapy about 8 months ago and has been way better (until this last incident) about his anger, for a long time he'd turn to Mr. Hyde, have the dead eyes and break up with me and leave and not return phone calls/texts etc. He is a lot less like that now. Which is why I had some hope.

However my world imploded recently and while he was there for me at first, then he lost it and it became all about how I didn't go see him when he was sick. Something I've never done and he's never expected or asked me to do before.

He can be amazing when he can deal with other people's issues, he was wonderful helping me put my dog to sleep.

However when the switch gets flipped and he gets angry, he can't see ANYTHING but that and won't until he will. I can do nothing to change his mind or make him feel better, nothing I do is "right".

When i looked at the 9 criteria, he had 7. He doesn't self harm or try to kill himself.

After sending me the last text, I got a donation on my gofundmepage that was set up for my dog well over a year ago when he got really sick. It was from him, donating $150 and leaving this:

"Rip (my dogs name)... hope this helps love... its not much, Just the time spent with him taking care of him was always fun while you did your photo shoots cause I loved you both! J."

He's killing me.

[enlighten me]

Its a tough one. We love them so much but just cant live with them. We believe there is hope that they will get better and the loving person we have seen will come out to stay.

The reality is that if theyre not willing to admit they need help, get it and stick with it then nothing will change. It will always be the rollercoaster ride that we know.

Perhaps by writing them a letter or email saying that you have loved them but cant go on like this. That they have hurt you so much and you realise that its not intentional. That they need to seek help to deal with the inner turmoil and to be able to try to find some semblance of happiness in their life and only when they are happy can they enjoy a fruitful relationship. That you need time to heal and that as hard as it may be for both of you there should be no contact until you are both in a better place.

[patientandclear]

Veronykah, are you clear what you want?  If you aren't, it's no good trying to force a decision to end the r/s.  I prematurely tried to conclude my r/s with my ex and I often still regret it.  It may have been a good decision but because I was so quick to reach that conclusion, I've always wondered if I made a wrong call.

If you aren't sure, I'd suggest spending some time on the Staying Board and reading about the tools and approaches people there use to improve communication and minimize damage.  A lot of the approach has to do with radical acceptance that this guy is not going to react to some things as you might wish, and he may do and say things that are hard for you to hear and deal with.  If you can tolerate those, sometimes the trade off is worth it.  There are useful discussions about setting and maintaining boundaries and validating their feelings, and not taking the bait when the surface level discussion is provocative but probably isn't even really the issue.

If you're ready to leave, it may very well be the right call.  But you sound ambivalent, and as one who pushed herself to a resolution when I probably shouldn't have, I just want to say I think you should take careful stock of where you, YOU, not anyone else, are at with respect to this relationship.

[patientandclear]

... . Except I just read your post on Undecided about how he cheated, how cheating is the issue you can't deal with (me too) and that you and your T have concluded there's no reason to expect that behavior to change. And that you are trying hard to leave and end contact.

That sounds very clear and well-reasoned. It sounds like you ARE clear about what is real, despite longing for it to be different. So I take back what I just said   When you're clear on what needs to happen even though it's super hard, that's when you need folks to underscore that your choice makes total sense.  Knowing that cheating is the issue in the r/ship, your choice makes total sense.

This is hard stuff but leaving behind dynamics that eat at your soul is a great call.

[Veronykah]

Well for the past 8 months I tried to move past the cheating. I just didn't think about it. It kills me to think about it but we were happy during that time. Seeing him in contact with her recently after breaking up with me and him telling me he was really shoved the knife in harder.

The issue with him is I don't see him as doing all this for sport or to be intentionally horrible like other SOs I read about. From the moment all the BPD started coming out I have seen him as a very, very tortured person.

I emailed him last night to ask for some space and time to work out all that's happening in my life and this is how it went (sorry the order is backwards):

An im sorry your feeling hurt too... well  until I hear from you... hope whatever you find helps you...

I feel like I shouldn't hold my breathe... i feel like I wont hear from you... but whatever you find... I hope it helps you finding what you need...

Ill be here waiting... im not going anywhere...

On Jun 28, 2014 1:48 AM, "Veronykah" wrote:

When I'm ready I will. I don't know when that will be. I just need some time for myself, apart from all of this.

Sorry you've been feeling hurt.


On Jun 28, 2014, at 1:42 AM, HE wrote:

Please respond that I will hear from you... can I get that at least.

On Jun 28, 2014 12:45 AM, "HE" wrote:

Hi im glad you emailed me... hey you need time? I get that... but you not responded to me back on an email which you wanted to know an not responding... hurts me veronykah... . I care alot about you an us...

I hope to hear from you... i really do... I miss you... your face... your touch... but what you did that night two weeks ago... hurt me alot... . so you have to understand that aswell... I always been there for you... an you doing that to me... sucked alot!

Im sorry you been thru alot the past two weeks... I bet it wasnt fun. An I am sorry for that!... wish I couldv helped...

An your so welcome for the donation... I might do that every month to help out... . you an the dog mean alot to me you know that...

Well as of now im helping out my friend that past away a few days ago on making a drawing for a benefit art show this sunday...

An again... your welcome on the donation... so I guess ill wait to hear from you!

Your in my thoughts everyday!

On Jun 28, 2014 12:33 AM, "Veronykah" wrote:

Thank you for the donation on the dog's page.

I really do appreciate it.

You seem to be sad and hurting, I want you to know that I am too.

I'm not trying to punish you or be mean to you by not talking to you. I really need some time and some space away from all of this to gather myself and be in a better place to make decisions.

I've had a lot of bad things happen to me in the past few weeks and I am really not in a good place.

I just need some time... .



Interactions like that seriously kill me. He isn't being terrible. I want nothing more than to be with him after that. But I also know our relationship has been going around and around for a year. True, after he started therapy he got a lot better. He held it together for 8 months, not blowing up and doing what the therapist told him to do when he did get angry and it seemed to be working.

Was I fooled? Will it always end up in craziness?

Is there lesser forms of BPD? I guess I feel like I am undecided now. I don't know. I feel like I should stay away from him but I also don't want to.

This is all so confusing. I hate it.

[patientandclear]

I hate it too.  I find it very hard to be confident in what is the right thing to do.

I think your email exchange with him was great (on both sides).  Now you have a bit of time.  I would suggest meditation, seeing what's going on with your body-based intuition about what to do ... . let your decision arrive in its own time, don't force it.

The situation is probably all the things you feel that it is ... . he IS trying, you have seen improvement.  But he is being taught tools, not how to change his underlying feelings, so there is always that destructive impulse at work if he does have BPD or BPD traits.  He will find it hard to trust, he will have impulses to control, destabilize, triangulate to release pressure ... .

I don't know the details of the infidelity but that is a hard thing to come back from for many of us.  That is true too.

You feel an unusual connection to him.

These are all true things.  They don't add up to an easy answer and the decision path is clouded right now.  To me, that suggests allowing things to become a little clearer for you in due course.  :)on't force it.

[Veronykah]

Well from what HE told me about the cheating, it was when we were "broken up" at one point. Which may be true, I don't know. He said it only happened once but from what the girl told me she said they had been together the whole time, which he said yes they were friends but nothing had happened before that.

From what I could surmise from what he was emailing her, there was a 3 week period when it was really bad with us that he was with her. He was not speaking to me but I don't think we were "broken up" at the time but really who knows.

I kind of do believe his story but the facts kind of make it seem like it might have been a bit longer.

We were together for a year and 5 months and it never got as bad as it did when I think he started with her, it was when that first happened that he really flipped out, broke up with me, refused to talk to me, sent me a letter telling me he never loved me then changed his number. When I finally left him alone after the letter, he of course contacted me. This happened several times from that April until September when SHE emailed me to out him. I put 2 + 2 together and figured all the freaking out and breaking up with me (I think I counted for the time period we were not speaking etc for about 1/3 of that time because he'd leave and not talk to me) was because he was going back and forth.

After I found out and broke up with him we weren't together for about 3 weeks and then decided to go slow and see what happened between us. He started therapy and from then on he seemed to have it together. I don't think he was talking to her. But seeing her on his restarted FB page and him telling me she knew we were broken up in the midst of his dysregulation really made me angry.

And made me wonder if he broke up with me and dysregulated due to talking to her again.

I have a completely unusual connection with him which is why I've stayed. I love him like I've never loved anyone. There is no one I'd rather be with ALL the time. I thought we were making progress then all this happened and I can't make sense of it. Other than to blame him for allegedly cheating, which he denies.

I've never really meditated but if it could help me hook into my "wise mind" which seems completely absent in all of this, unless it's the mind telling me to get out... .

I'll try anything to make sense of it... .

Thank you so much for helping me work this out... . your advice is so helpful, I hope you know that.

[Narellan]

Hey Veronykah I just want to send you a big hug  

I totally feel your pain. It's so devastating. I want nothing more than to reach out and clear things with my exBPD too. I know he's in turmoil. I saw a photo of him last week and he's barely recognisable.  it filled me with despair. But I have to remember he lied to me and then tried to replace me with my best friend which destroyed me for a long time and destroyed my 20 yr friendship with her. We are all in pain over that.

I think patientandclear has given you some great advice and support. Nothing I can add to that. But just want you to know your struggle is normal, and I'm struggling too with the same.

Great emails. Take your time sweetie and be kind to yourself. Xx

[Infared]

Veronykah, I can identify with this statement:

"I wish I could just forget all about him and HATE that I still have such strong feelings for him, it's killing me."

It is a twisted place to be. Really twisted. That relationship is broken and unfixable. Been there. Total NC is talked about a LOT on this website for a reason. I think part of what confounded me repeatedly was that I was trying to "reason" with a mentally ill person and I kept expecting them to act in a normal, healthy way (um, BTW... lots of that is MY problem). As many have said here, I HAD to do total NC, at all costs... . and it was very painful... . my ex "broke up" with me, but truly I had to end the relationship completely, not her... . she wanted to inflict pain on me forever if I was willing... AND I had to work on the parts in me that brought me to that horrible place.  Difficult, grown-up stuff... . but eventually things got better... .

[Narellan]

Well said Infared. My ex broke up with me too, but has kept trying to get my attention back using all sorts of avenues to evoke a response of some sort. A couple of weeks ago he began abusing my sister via FB message, probably thought I'd jump in and get involved. I didn't. He then turned up at my door but I wasn't home and have stayed NC.

I hope he's given up trying. I don't think he knows what to do next because everything he's done I've ignored ( except the nude pic he put on FB of me! I responded to that !)

It's me now that's ended it by not responding in any way, as painful as it is.

[ShakinMyHead]

Hey V, I'm so sorry for what you are going through… We try so hard to fit these guys into a diagnosis, so that we can feel justified in letting them go for a valid reason. Partners are let go of, with loving detachment every minute of every day because relationship are just not good enough forever... for longterm. It doesn't have to mean that they fit perfectly into a diagnostic criteria, or that a good part of them are not wonderful or feel amazing. They just may not be worth investing in for the long haul. All that being said V. Your guy, sounds like while he has definite BPD characteristics, because he can trigger to swing, his Narcissistic features are quite prominent as well. These traits often are contradictory to the swing of mood in BPD personality. My exBPDbf, I believe has very strong N features, but he swings moods still. I have also dated Narcissists, and was raised by the N that broke the mold. These N's are famous for swooping in at vulnerable times and making action oriented gestures to appear as the greatest guy, but never really being present for the pain or feeling aspect of the process. They show up to put the pet down, to come to the wake or funeral, to hold your hand thru a trauma, for an hour, or possibly to write a check if there is $ there?…But do not ask for something that they don't want to give or all hell will break loose. In that, you will then see that their devotion has nothing to do with your needs, and your crisis is only an opportunity for them to use as a quick action to prove to you that you were wrong about the last destructive act they caused. Trust your instincts. You don't need a diagnosis, but it smells like you have a pretty accurate one anyway… You deserve a man that loves you and only you. Makes you feel secure, does not neutralize you with the threat of anyone! Big Hug…you already have the answer… SMH

[Veronykah]

I don't really see a narcissist, with the exception of him being all about him but it's more he is the victim with him. He never comes from a place of power unless it's to try to make me feel bad about how victimized he is by my behavior. He also really hates himself and has told me over and over how he thinks he's a bad person, a loser and doesn't understand why I am with him. This is not manipulation, I truly believe he thinks that.

I do admit, I am far from a validating person (being giving with a partner is something I've learned and continue to learn with him. Even my therapist has said our relationship sounds like I'm the man and he's the woman) and would be the one in this scenario that would be the narcissist. All these questions swirl around in my head now, if I could just tell him / give him what he wants would it work?

He freaks out about stuff like "You didn't come over to my house when you knew I was sick" and even though I know it's BS, how different would the outcome have been if I could just say "I'm sorry, I didn't know you wanted me to or that you were feeling that bad."?

I got PISSED and said some not nice things and also probably things you would say to a regular person. He feels further invalidated and tips into anger then it's over. I think when I've had the wherewithal to give him the validation, he snaps out of it. I just usually don't realize that is what he wants until WAY into a fight when he is completely Mr. Hyde already and then nothing I say can fix it.

I've told him that if he could just ask me for what he wants in a nicer way he'd get it, but its always accusatory and mean. So I get defensive and being a strong, confrontational person I get right into it with him.

I'm all alone today with nothing to do, so I am thinking about him and missing him a lot right now.

Which is making me question all of this... . I haven't seen him in 2.5 weeks at this point and he has left me alone since I told him I need some space and time to figure all this out. I just want nothing more than to call him and be with him right now... . :'(

[patientandclear]

V -- I'd suggest checking out the skills on the Staying Board related to "stop making it worse."  You've identified that your reaction to his behaviors is not working and you see that there may be alternatives.  You want to consider whether you would be willing to adopt the alternatives.  The alternatives though are not just doing what he wants, they involve how to communicate when that is NOT what you want or choose to do, in a way that doesn't make him feel unheard or rejected.

The reading & consideration of those tools could take a while.  Maybe a good way to use your time out period that you & he are observing?

[Narellan]

V I always responded with calm and empathy and it just meant he walked all over me. It makes no difference how you respond. It makes no difference how good you are to him, he will still turn on you. My ex never raged at me because I had learned controlled responses over 25 years of living with my bipolar husband. It didn't stop him from finding fault with me over things that didnt even happen or that he had distorted. So in answer to your question of how different would it have been if you validated his comment about visiting him when he was sick, no different. Because a minute or so later there would be another thing you did wrong, and another and another.

It's not your fault. It's nothing to do with you. It's the disease.

Be strong. And do read through the resources again. It's natural for you to want to reach out again now at this time you're feeling bad, but keep NC. As other members have posted when you reach out with need it's often met with a negative rejection and a big power hit for him.

Take time to grieve your dog and take care of you x