Feeling hopeless again

[losinghope97]

I moved out (or was forced out) a month ago. Now my older kids are being triangulated against me and there is nothing I can do to stop it. She (my uBPDstbxw) has got them in the FOG and making me out to be the one with the issues who is tearing the family apart.

How do they know (pwBPD) how to paint you into the box so perfectly, where you know that now matter what you say, they will turn it against you. Every response I try to formulate to my kids comes back to me almost as if my wife is saying it. I feel like there is no way out, no way to be heard, no way to save anything or any one.

I am at my ropes end and need help. Can I just bail on everyone? I don't think I can take the insults and isolation from my kids as an extension of her. Trying to be the good guy I hid everything I could about the abuse I was suffering and have never told them of my beliefs about their mothers condition, and now in the face of her manipulations and twisted plots I don't have a leg to stand on. Any response just seems like I am engaging in the destruction of my family, so am left just having to take it.

There is no out. Never any out. She gets everyone in her corner and then has them all look back at me as the sick one, the one who can't deal with his FOO issues, can't control his temper, and I am stuck taking it all never telling the truth, lest I be called a liar and know within myself I have sunk I to the abyss with her.

Whenever I am in this place, I am drawn and tempted to buy into the portrayal of me. What if it is me, what if I am the one who makes all this happen, so broken like in the film Shutter Island, that I am oblivious to my own condition. The allure of stopping the pain and allowing normalcy back into my family by just accepting this is so powerful. I have taken that road so many times, almost to my own emotional destruction, but know after 5 years that it never works. We always end up here no matter what I do.

This is a complete ramble, but literally this is my only lifeline to sanity. The only place where people might be able to know, really know what this is like. My T tries, but I have come to believe that if you haven't walked this path, then you can't know how hard it is. Again apologies for the lack of a real question here, I just had to let it out.

Lh97

[Narellan]

Yep losinghope97 I hear you. I often wondered if I was the problem, still do sometimes. Maybe I do love too much and smother people. Ill never know, but if that's his perception then so be it. I'm not changing. If that's my worst attribute, caring too much, then that's not too bad.

How old are your kids? When I was married I was the bad guy and got caught up all the time on his lies about me. After I left with my boys I was still the bad guy and the one who broke up the family. My boys believed that also. But now, 2 years later they are 20,17,15 and they thank me that I don't live with their dad anymore. They in fact can't understand why i stayed married for so long. They spend every second weekend with him and get on ok mostly but with me not there to intervene and smooth things over, they are seeing the real him.

If you can, back away. If you are in a no win situation where they are all painting you black, take a breath and take some time out. Your children will always be your children no matter what. Maybe you can write them a letter first ( if they're old enough) explaining how you want peace for them and if you stay away for now things might settle down for them. Tell them you always love them wherever you are and you will see them again when things are calmer. I don't think that's a bad thing. You just want what's best for your children and at the moment they are being used as chess pieces by her.

What do you think?  

[losinghope97]

Narellan,

Thank you for your words and support.  The kids are 18 and 14 (with 2 little one's 4-5 behind them).  I know you are right, time away is really the only answer.  I understand the concept of radical acceptance, but am still menatally struggling with the unfairness of it all. 

Did you let your children in on what was happeneing to you when you left, the things they didn't see?   Are we supposed to let them know how it is/was so they can understand what is happening, or do we contiue to protect the pwBPD, since we know our kids have to deal with their other parent (and in may case live with them).  I can't tell if I am being the better person and protecting my kids, or falling victim to the caretaker role again and shielding my wife from the results of her actions?

I am always struck at the emotioinal and mental anguish in these moments and wonder if this is how it is to love with BPD, full time.  If it is the case, I truly feel sorry for them.

Thanks again,

LH97

[OutOfEgypt]

It may seem like cold comfort, but what I'm about to say is true.  I was thinking about this as I was sitting home alone last night, seeing what a great time my kids were having at their mother's.  In my situation, my girls are not wrapped around her little finger -at least, not like my step son is.  He's completely wrapped up in her.  I hardly ever see him.  However, my eldest daughter does tend to parrot things her mother says.  But here's the truth.  Your ex may be a master manipulator.  She may know how to work a crowd.  She may know how to get people on her side.  She may know how to be the center of attention and make sure people like her.  But she will never have what you have: character.

Having character and integrity mean that no matter what goes on around you, you know what is true, you know what is real, and you stay the course of what is right (knowing that doing so means suffering).  :)oes she have that?  You KNOW she doesn't.  And here's the thing... .character wins in the end.  Everything else is shown to be a trick, exposed for what it is.  And character is of far more value because it is real.  It is true.  And it grows through suffering.  She doesn't have that.  All she has is a cheap bag of well-honed tricks.  It's an act.  It's fake.  It's not reality.

I wish I knew what to do about your kids.  They will have to come around on their own, but you can continue being you, stop walking on eggshells, keep calm, and speak the truth in love.  When my daughter parrots her mother, I might say, "Is that you saying that?  It sounds like someone else saying it."  Or if she says directly, "Mommy told me... ." I say, without talking about what a bad person mommy is, something like, "But come on, you know that isn't true."  :)on't argue with it.  Just state the fact and let it go.  

Have you ever read about projective identification?  It's like one step beyond projection.  They not only project things onto you, they also act toward you (and in relationships with others around you) that influences you to believe those things they project on you.  It's like telling you that you are insecure, and then lying to you, cheating on you, acting as though she is superior to you, and getting everybody to be on her side, and then saying "See!  I told you.  You are insecure.  You are the problem."  They write a script for your role, and they act in such a way that you fulfill that role.

I know it hurts.  It isn't going to NOT hurt, especially if she is alienating the kids from you. I saw that happen with my sister and her children at the hand of her vicious ex.  He was very deliberate about it.  And you can't control that.  It is unfair, but you can't control what they do.  All you can do is stand firm in the truth, continue on with your life in character and integrity, and look for opportunities to speak truth to your kids without justifying it, arguing it, or trashing their mom.  No matter what happens, you still have better than her.  Again, when you have character and truth and integrity, they can have the whole world eating out of their hand but in the end it means nothing.  It's just a trick.  It's hollow.  But you have something that lasts, something that outweighs all of it.

Not sure you believe that?  Sounds too abstract?  Well think of it this way... .what would be a better gift to give to someone, to pass on to them?  Would a better gift be the ability to lie and manipulate and trick people into following you, or would a better gift be good character?

Here's another motivator:  When you fail to realize what you have, you buy into your ex's lie that she has better.  And then you get sucked into living life by her rules.  And you'll never win at her game (because you aren't like that!).  But when you realize what you have (though it hurts) you stop punishing yourself, in addition to the pain, by torturing yourself for not winning at her game.  You realize that her game sucks.  And it does.  Flush it.

[OutOfEgypt]

And since I'm sorta rambling, too.  Here's one more thought in conjunction with my last post.

Imagine God came to you right now and said, "I'll make you a deal.  You can choose to be the person you are and will be, throught all of this garbage you are enduring, or you can choose to be just like her and have everything that she has.  Just say the word, and if you want to be just like her and have what she has, I will snap my fingers and give it to you.  What do you say?"

What would you say?  Would you really want to be like THAT?  You know you wouldn't.  It just hurts because you feel your kids being pulled away, and that going to hurt no matter what.  But you do have something far better than she can ever hope for.  And in time your kids will see it.  They aren't dumb.

[losinghope97]

Thanks OutOfEygpt,

Your words do bring comfort, and I inderstand all you say to be true.

I just found out she is going to keep the younger kids from me also, for who knows how long.  This hurts like nothing I have ever experienced, in any of the 5 years this has been accute.  It is all i can do to not lose control, but the only thing stopping me is that I know that is what she wants, this will validate her points even further.  As I write, I am begining to see

They write a script for your role, and they act in such a way that you fulfill that role.

and I have played into her role to get me to where I am. This can happen no more, I am taking my life back. 

She wants me to feel her pain, she is giving it to me, and if if this how she is inside then I could never take the bargin offered by God in your last post.  I will get out of this place, but I don't think she ever will.

Thanks again OOE, you have helped me immeasureably.

LH97

[OutOfEgypt]

Good for you!  Yes, she wants to "pass the buck" onto you.  She wants to be the "winner" and have you be the "loser".  She actually *needs* that from you, sadly.  She thrives on the reaction she gets.  Look at how empty of character a person must be in order to do the things she does -escpecially when it involves manipulating mere children!  Wrong and sad.

It is awful that they can involve the kids in this way.  But this is their lifelong game.  This is one of the reasons why I opted for joint custody and taking a "supportive" approach toward my ex.  She has neglected them and put them through so much crap, and somewhere inside she knows it, but she will never face it.  And I realized that fighting her would only trigger her need to have control of the relationships (such as with the kids), so I allow things to go as they are.  People are going to follow her, be manipulated by her, buy into her mask, but it won't change the truth.  And if we fell for it, we have to understand that others will, too.  But what I have found is that many people can see there is something wrong with her but STILL they follow her and placate her.  It is more out of fear or not knowing how to handle it.  So they join in on her party because they don't know what else to do or feel like, on some level, they must or else they will face her rejection and wrath.  We can certainly understand that, too, huh?

Keep on, brother.  Yes, take your life back -though for me I've seen it is more of a process.  You have to *keep* taking it back.  You have to keep going back to your own path instead of straying over to hers because of all the pain and injustice you see and feel.  But you can do it!

[Narellan]

LH97 at the time of the break up we sat them down together and told them that we both loved them all so much but that we didn't love each other any more. And that we would be living in separate houses and they would still be with both of us. Lots if questions around where they would live, but as I'd had months of thinking about this, and my ex and I had devised a plan so it was good to tell them all the plans around this.

We had questions about why? But we just stuck to we don't love each other and we want their home to be happy and peaceful with no arguing.

My oldest was 18 at the time and had noticed a few of his fathers bipolar episodes so I had disclosed to him some information. The other two knew nothing about dads disorder. As they spent more time alone with him they began to notice and asked lots of questions. These questions I answered from a compassionate viewpoint. My thinking is they love their dad, they have his DNA so to criticise him, hurts them. I told them about his diagnosis, and that dad has trouble with anger management and I bought them mobile phones to call me whenever they needed/wanted.

2 years on they feel secure in knowing what's going on with their dad. They understand how to manage it now. Just last week my youngest the 15 yo text me " please come now and take me home ". It was a night they were to sleep at their dads, they had only been there an hour, but I just replied ok and went straight there. Things were chaotic and my exh looked " off" the other two boys stayed, but my baby got in the car and sobbed like I've never seen before. It broke my heart. Apparently they'd gone out for dinner and dad had exploded about waiting in line to order such a big crowd, had turned his anger on the boys and made a scene. People were looking at them all. Dad had name called the boys " f'n spoilt little priks" loudly and in front of their grandparents.

When I arrived to pick my son up his dad said " I don't know what's wrong with him" and my reply was " he said earlier he wasn't feeling well so ill just take him home to bed."

Sorry long ramble reply for you. My oldest knows about the more extreme incidents like his dad lying in the middle of a busy road one night, and then trying to jump off a bridge. The oldest needed to know these couple of incidents I felt because he can then watch out a bit more for his brothers.

I stayed 12 years longer than I wanted to in this marriage (22 yr marriage) mainly because I feared for the boys safety. But I don't now. They are bigger than their dad and they are aware his is sick and they have 24 access to me.

I don't know if my story is any help to you.

You are in my thoughts. Peace 

[Narellan]

OOE some great words of wisdom here from you 

[OutOfEgypt]

thanks

[Blimblam]

It may seem like cold comfort, but what I'm about to say is true.  I was thinking about this as I was sitting home alone last night, seeing what a great time my kids were having at their mother's.  In my situation, my girls are not wrapped around her little finger -at least, not like my step son is.  He's completely wrapped up in her.  I hardly ever see him.  However, my eldest daughter does tend to parrot things her mother says.  But here's the truth.  Your ex may be a master manipulator.  She may know how to work a crowd.  She may know how to get people on her side.  She may know how to be the center of attention and make sure people like her.  But she will never have what you have: character.

Having character and integrity mean that no matter what goes on around you, you know what is true, you know what is real, and you stay the course of what is right (knowing that doing so means suffering).  :)oes she have that?  You KNOW she doesn't.  And here's the thing... .character wins in the end.  Everything else is shown to be a trick, exposed for what it is.  And character is of far more value because it is real.  It is true.  And it grows through suffering.  She doesn't have that.  All she has is a cheap bag of well-honed tricks.  It's an act.  It's fake.  It's not reality.

I wish I knew what to do about your kids.  They will have to come around on their own, but you can continue being you, stop walking on eggshells, keep calm, and speak the truth in love.  When my daughter parrots her mother, I might say, "Is that you saying that?  It sounds like someone else saying it."  Or if she says directly, "Mommy told me... ." I say, without talking about what a bad person mommy is, something like, "But come on, you know that isn't true."  :)on't argue with it.  Just state the fact and let it go.  

Have you ever read about projective identification?  It's like one step beyond projection.  They not only project things onto you, they also act toward you (and in relationships with others around you) that influences you to believe those things they project on you.  It's like telling you that you are insecure, and then lying to you, cheating on you, acting as though she is superior to you, and getting everybody to be on her side, and then saying "See!  I told you.  You are insecure.  You are the problem."  They write a script for your role, and they act in such a way that you fulfill that role.

I know it hurts.  It isn't going to NOT hurt, especially if she is alienating the kids from you. I saw that happen with my sister and her children at the hand of her vicious ex.  He was very deliberate about it.  And you can't control that.  It is unfair, but you can't control what they do.  All you can do is stand firm in the truth, continue on with your life in character and integrity, and look for opportunities to speak truth to your kids without justifying it, arguing it, or trashing their mom.  No matter what happens, you still have better than her.  Again, when you have character and truth and integrity, they can have the whole world eating out of their hand but in the end it means nothing.  It's just a trick.  It's hollow.  But you have something that lasts, something that outweighs all of it.

Not sure you believe that?  Sounds too abstract?  Well think of it this way... .what would be a better gift to give to someone, to pass on to them?  Would a better gift be the ability to lie and manipulate and trick people into following you, or would a better gift be good character?

Here's another motivator:  When you fail to realize what you have, you buy into your ex's lie that she has better.  And then you get sucked into living life by her rules.  And you'll never win at her game (because you aren't like that!).  But when you realize what you have (though it hurts) you stop punishing yourself, in addition to the pain, by torturing yourself for not winning at her game.  You realize that her game sucks.  And it does.  Flush it.

man great post! I was just having similar sentiments last night.