How they break us down

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Wanted some views on something:

Recently a supervisor at work said to me "your strength is that your confident."  While it is true that I am confident to some degree, I also know that an element of this is a facade that I use to cover self-esteem issues.  Of course, very few people would know or guess that about me, at least people I know peripherally. 

Then I remembered that, at the beginning, my ex used to comment on how confident I was.  By the end, she had me broken down so that all my self-esteem struggles were bare for her to see, and then of course she left.  Even after, when we still had contact, she would talk about how she knew the "real me" as a way of making me feel small.

Is there some way to put this ability to break through people's strongest defenses so that they are completely vulnerable in the context of BPD?  I'm trying to decide if this is just a thing that happens in relationships that go bad, or if it's pronounced with BPD.  I suspect the latter.  Certainly in other relationships my vulnerabilities show through, but they are not usually rubbed in my face or pointed out to me to excess.

All opinions on this welcome. 

[BacknthSaddle]

Wanted some views on something:

Recently a supervisor at work said to me "your strength is that your confident."  While it is true that I am confident to some degree, I also know that an element of this is a facade that I use to cover self-esteem issues.  Of course, very few people would know or guess that about me, at least people I know peripherally. 

Then I remembered that, at the beginning, my ex used to comment on how confident I was.  By the end, she had me broken down so that all my self-esteem struggles were bare for her to see, and then of course she left.  Even after, when we still had contact, she would talk about how she knew the "real me" as a way of making me feel small.

Is there some way to put this ability to break through people's strongest defenses so that they are completely vulnerable in the context of BPD?  I'm trying to decide if this is just a thing that happens in relationships that go bad, or if it's pronounced with BPD.  I suspect the latter.  Certainly in other relationships my vulnerabilities show through, but they are not usually rubbed in my face or pointed out to me to excess.

All opinions on this welcome. 

[Aussie JJ]

All BPD's are different and their methods are all different. 

Mine was intermitant reinforcement and projecting her bad qualities onto me.  I had weak boundarys with females, particulary intimate relationships as my mother was very controling and I accepted it. 

For me, I have to change it now from how she broke me down... .  why blame her I am responsible for myself. 

For me the question now is how I let it occur and what am I changing so it wont occur again.  End of the day, all of us have to take accountability for ourselves and yes they have a PD but we allowed it to occur. 

[Ventus2ct]

In my view, they do it slowly! I went out with a diagnosed Bi-Polar (unbeknown to me cocaine addict) and my ex believed to be BPD, they both went about things in a similar fashion, slowly at first then relentlessly towards the end.

In my case it was the constant, criticism, mind games, devaluing, some things that were said you wouldn't even notice until after the event, a lot of these things were happening from the off in a "jokey" manner.

Over a period of time it grates you down, you become uncertain and still cling onto the "good times" and on it goes until you become a shell of the person you once were, they then start dithering in the relationship, expressing "not sure" "time out" and generally play silly buggers, something that we would never tolerate when strong. I sense I tried more and more, the more I tried the less she gave and the worse the situation became, I did do the reverse to see how that would work with my ex, and sure enough she came towards me, just like 2 fighters in a ring. I think at the back of my mind was the case that despite being unhappy I was going to loose the one person who I felt I really bonded with, I felt we were a match (how little did I know) So on I pushed, giving, giving until I could give no more, no boundaries, surrendered total control to her, was weak, broken and needy.

She saw this and did what she knows best in this situation, trampled on my inner being or so it felt at the time.

I was a very secure/strong person before the relationship but emerged a very insecure person at the end.

I can see how it happened but like you i need to understand why I let it happen! Desperation?

[BacknthSaddle]

Thank you both for your replies. To clarify: I have a good idea why I let it happen, specifically that I do believe myself to be weak and inadequate in several areas despite evidence to the contrary.  So, when she is cruel, I have a tendency to believe it. This is something that I am indeed actively working on. What I'm asking more is: what is it about BPD specifically that allows them to identify our weak points and then exploit them.  I think that in a normal healthy relationship, my insecurities would have come out, but I would have been supported.  At minimum, if the relationship fell apart, I would think they wouldn't be rubbed in my face. 

[Mutt]

Thank you both for your replies. To clarify: I have a good idea why I let it happen, specifically that I do believe myself to be weak and inadequate in several areas despite evidence to the contrary.  So, when she is cruel, I have a tendency to believe it. This is something that I am indeed actively working on. What I'm asking more is: what is it about BPD specifically that allows them to identify our weak points and then exploit them.  I think that in a normal healthy relationship, my insecurities would have come out, but I would have been supported.  At minimum, if the relationship fell apart, I would think they wouldn't be rubbed in my face.  

I had self esteem issues and I still work on them now, but it stems from shame and guilt from my childhood and I believe it's from my fathers projections. I'm not sure about your self esteem issues. BPD is insidious and it grinds our self esteem even further down as the r/s evolves. It's emotionally exhausting stuff isn't it? I eventually started to feel depressed and I think that it affects the self esteem as well. FOG and emotional blackmail from a person with have an emotional attachment with is really difficult and skews our sense of self. I certainly didn't feel like the same man in the r/s but eventually that FOG lifts if you detach and letting go of other peoples emotional baggage made me feel like a weight has been lifted. I identified that a lot of things I carried around weren't truly my feelings, they belonged to someone else and I let that go.

[myself]

It's a way for a pwBPD to exert control over someone else.

The more they focus on our 'flaws', the less they focus on theirs.

Even though much of what they point out is projection.

[Lion Fire]

Yes, my exBPDgf lured me into a false sense of security where I let my defenses down and shared with her all of what I was and some intensely personal information about my past.

She effectively took all of this, established my weak spots and used this to hurt me sometimes subtly and other times brutally.

I am a quietly confident person particularly in my public life, respected by my peers and in my community.

Once she had me on the ropes she would constantly tell me of how I was able to con everyone except for her. She painted me the darkest black possible and for a time I believed it.

By the time I escaped , I was a complete shell of a man with absolutely no confidence and full of self loathing.

I have promised myself that this will never happen again.

[Xstaticaddict]

I'm not sure they're any better or worse at identifying vulnerabilities than any other people, but the fact that mine became fixated on my behaviors because she was so insecure gave her a lot of intensely focused research time to see what i did and who i was, and obviously since i dated a BPD for 6 years i have many flaws and issues. The difference between her and someone who was kind and nurturing is that she would note any shortcomings to use as slights against me when she was feeling raw or victimized. I called her on it a couple times, saying, why would you want to say something like that to someone you care about and she seemed to think about it and realize she was being nasty. She has a lot of anger though deep down but puts on the facade of being a really upbeat positive person.

The fact that we buy into the partnership and allow them to be like this is really akin to giving a pickpocket your wallet to hold. Misplaced trust.

[AwakenedOne]

What I'm asking more is: what is it about BPD specifically that allows them to identify our weak points and then exploit them. 

I don't think there is a specific thing to point to.

This just comes with "the package". They have had the disorder their whole lives for the most part and have become masters of survival, manipulation and punishment. BPD survival includes punishing their victims. In fairness they often believe they are the victim. In life they have been dealt bad cards, I understand that. So have a lot of us also. I think from the time they meet us they have the end of the story already written. The end of the story is a "happily ever after" or "all the their needs are met" happy ending. We are married to them and living in nonstop happiness with tons of babies, tons of money, tons of sex and they still have unlimited individual freedom.

In my opinion it all starts near the end of the idealization stage where they "break us down". Once they see one fault in you, the relationship is DOOMED. When they see the one fault it is the end of the world in their mind. So they begin to brace and train for what's next. At that point they don't know what's coming next, but the alarms are ringing and they are mentally rushing to the battle stations. They now need to find the "goods" on you. They go back to day one when you met them all the way up to the present point and rethink how it was all a lie and how stupid they were and how you don't care about them and how you are are using them and how you will leave them. They make a mental note of your top ten weakness's and they begin to chizzle away at your soul. I would imagine it is primarily to punish you and that also some of them get a real enjoyment out of this stage. Revenge is sweet. I don't think this falls into the "BPD's have the emotions of 4 yr old". I have never seen a 4yr old delight in revenge and punishment. As the relationship begins to deteriorate you see more arguments, more lashing out and more attempts to emotionally abuse you. This is continued till you leave or they throw you in the trash. Your heart is ripped out and then you are mocked as they walk off with it into the sunset with a sneer.

Well that is my story. This is also an attempt to answer your question.

[Housman]

I don't know if there is an answer to exactly how the mechanism works, it is in fact all part of the package. My BPDex knew that I have always been self conscious all though I'm, and I'm not bragging here, a genuinely attractive person. She lured me in with such extreme idolization of my body in particular, revealing that she hated her body (which once again was actually perfect, sadly) but she knew deep down I had a hard time being convinced.

During our first break up she tapped right into that and used that exclusively to destroy me; comparing me to her exes, making horrible cruel comments about my body and sexual abilities, comparing me to her boyfriend at the time. And then of course during the recycle period openly stated she was just trying to hurt me and it wasn't true. Of course when the r/s period ended last month she launched back into the attacks and tirades. It's really important to realize it isn't true at all. None of it ever was, even the best parts, so of course the attacks aren't either. Yes they will slander you to all of their current lovers and friends, but they'll do the same with them once they've used em up.

Hold fast to the belief that they lie, always, they are living breathing lies. And while even the strongest compliments are often false, the staggering attacks to break you down are even further from the truth.

[Blimblam]

The test us to see what works.  I remember way early on in the flirting teasing phase she was figuring it out then.  Also they gain our trust so we tell them.

I remember when the devaluing began she would dysregulate and begin to project onto me. I would stop it dead in its tracks, "hey, your projecting onto me the idea I am trying to control you as if you are rebelling against your dad."  So, she changed up her strategy to find what would work.  I called her out on all her crap nothing was working. So she cheated on me, I could sense it and that screwed my head bad. She knew how to hurt me, I wasn't sure exactly what it was I was so scared of.  The she began to invalidate me by rolling her eyes a look of contemt or disgust and impatience with everything I did. She held me in contempt and every breath I took was rejection over and over a thousand times over.

[earthgirl]

It's really important to realize it isn't true at all. None of it ever was, even the best parts, so of course the attacks aren't either... .

Hold fast to the belief that they lie, always, they are living breathing lies. And while even the strongest compliments are often false, the staggering attacks to break you down are even further from the truth.

I just came to this very realization recently.  It's heartbreaking, but it's also been my salvation.  I'm so sad that the good stuff isn't real; but it helps tremendously to know the really hurtful stuff isn't real, either.  I'm learning (slowly) to stand alone with my reality.  Because trying to use anything he tells me as a frame of reference is like standing on quicksand.

[JohnLove]

What I'm asking more is: what is it about BPD specifically that allows them to identify our weak points and then exploit them. 

I don't think there is a specific thing to point to.

This just comes with "the package". They have had the disorder their whole lives for the most part and have become masters of survival, manipulation and punishment. BPD survival includes punishing their victims. In fairness they often believe they are the victim. In life they have been dealt bad cards, I understand that. So have a lot of us also. I think from the time they meet us they have the end of the story already written. The end of the story is a "happily ever after" or "all the their needs are met" happy ending. We are married to them and living in nonstop happiness with tons of babies, tons of money, tons of sex and they still have unlimited individual freedom.

In my opinion it all starts near the end of the idealization stage where they "break us down". Once they see one fault in you, the relationship is DOOMED. When they see the one fault it is the end of the world in their mind. So they begin to brace and train for what's next. At that point they don't know what's coming next, but the alarms are ringing and they are mentally rushing to the battle stations. They now need to find the "goods" on you. They go back to day one when you met them all the way up to the present point and rethink how it was all a lie and how stupid they were and how you don't care about them and how you are are using them and how you will leave them. They make a mental note of your top ten weakness's and they begin to chizzle away at your soul. I would imagine it is primarily to punish you and that also some of them get a real enjoyment out of this stage. Revenge is sweet. I don't think this falls into the "BPD's have the emotions of 4 yr old". I have never seen a 4yr old delight in revenge and punishment. As the relationship begins to deteriorate you see more arguments, more lashing out and more attempts to emotionally abuse you. This is continued till you leave or they throw you in the trash. Your heart is ripped out and then you are mocked as they walk off with it into the sunset with a sneer.

Well that is my story. This is also an attempt to answer your question.

Thank you. AwakenedOne. I found this both insightful and helpful. Your observation on revenge is concerning. I don't think I have been the target of revenge (yet?). I have bought the story of them being emotionally immature in an attempt to understand (and justify... .reverse JADE?) the behaviour. How do they accomplish that with "2,3,4 year old emotions?. Is revenge an emotion or an act?. Where does this originate?. Their intellect?. Their "logical" brain?.