In tears..

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

I made my introduction the other day and found some wonderful tools that I am still sorting through. The admins here seem genuine.

Right now I am just in tears. Yes, you read that right. I'm a 34 year old man who's crying uncontrollably right now. All week I've done well to keep my emotions together. No texts, no calls, no attempts at contacta as per the advice from my mother. As I lay here trying to go to sleep I am overwhelmed with emotions. How can I possibly love someone, although with BPD, who seemingly hates me? Someone who has shown not one ounce of care and tells people she hates me and bad mouths me on Facebook? Someone who has severed all contact since I expressed how I truely felt. It's been nearly 7 weeks since the separation and I have lost nearly 20lbs from being unable to eat. I barely sleep. I work myself to death 70 hours a week. I don't talk to anyone about her anymore, or post anything on my Facebook. I am so lost right now. I need a martini and a gd hug. Yet, my friends who were there a few weeks ago have abandoned me because I just won't give up, let go and move on. I have absolutely NO ONE around me. I have to exert every ounce of strength not to call her, not like she would answer anyway.

I understand that by showing her I don't need her in my life, that I want her, she MIGHT see things differently. However, at this stage I feel that if I let go. She will just move on and I'll become just another memory. I have such a big heart, full of compassion and love. I'm not an alcoholic, or a drug user. I don't hit women. Why am I in this situation? Why do I feel like a bag of trash that just got sat on the curb on any given day?

Is it too much to ask for what she really wants? Not in a text, or phone call or a whisper in an online game. Face to face. Like a human should talk to another human.

Anyway... .I am going to finish crying myself to sleep, if I sleep at all.


Thanks for giving me a place where I can vent and not be judged.

[FabulousGandalf]

I made my introduction the other day and found some wonderful tools that I am still sorting through. The admins here seem genuine.

Right now I am just in tears. Yes, you read that right. I'm a 34 year old man who's crying uncontrollably right now. All week I've done well to keep my emotions together. No texts, no calls, no attempts at contacta as per the advice from my mother. As I lay here trying to go to sleep I am overwhelmed with emotions. How can I possibly love someone, although with BPD, who seemingly hates me? Someone who has shown not one ounce of care and tells people she hates me and bad mouths me on Facebook? Someone who has severed all contact since I expressed how I truely felt. It's been nearly 7 weeks since the separation and I have lost nearly 20lbs from being unable to eat. I barely sleep. I work myself to death 70 hours a week. I don't talk to anyone about her anymore, or post anything on my Facebook. I am so lost right now. I need a martini and a gd hug. Yet, my friends who were there a few weeks ago have abandoned me because I just won't give up, let go and move on. I have absolutely NO ONE around me. I have to exert every ounce of strength not to call her, not like she would answer anyway.

I understand that by showing her I don't need her in my life, that I want her, she MIGHT see things differently. However, at this stage I feel that if I let go. She will just move on and I'll become just another memory. I have such a big heart, full of compassion and love. I'm not an alcoholic, or a drug user. I don't hit women. Why am I in this situation? Why do I feel like a bag of trash that just got sat on the curb on any given day?

Is it too much to ask for what she really wants? Not in a text, or phone call or a whisper in an online game. Face to face. Like a human should talk to another human.

Anyway... .I am going to finish crying myself to sleep, if I sleep at all.


Thanks for giving me a place where I can vent and not be judged.

[Overbeck]

Let the tears flow. It's therapeutic. It cleanses.

I thought I was done my crying bouts. I thought all that was left was anger. Then I dreamt about her two nights ago and at 7 AM I cried in the shower.

We are tougher than those who meant to destroy us. Wounded, not dead. Cry and heal.

[Turkish]

FabulousGandalf, I never would have thought myself saying this even a few years ago, but it's ok to cry. Your emotions are real. You've been though a significant trauma, maybe the worst you've ever experienced.

I had to live with my uBPDx for four months while she all but threw her new relationship in my face. How could someone who always verbalized her fear of me cheating and anbandoning her do the same?

I wept like a freaking baby. At home (not that she would see), in the car, sometimes with the kids, though I tried to stiffle that. At work at random times. I'd even get panic attacks just reading this site. I lost 26 lbs in three months, loss of appetite. She also slammed me on FB while at the same time I provided a roof over hear head, rent free. Who does that?

5 months after she moved out, I cry a lot less, but go into periodic depressions. I'm a man in his early 40s, and I survived a BPD mom. The wounds have opened anew... .

You describe yourself as a decent guy. We guys and gals here are. The core rage and pain of a pwBPD can be incomprehensible to people like us. Our values are challenged. Invalidated.

Let the pain flow however long it takes. You're among people who can relate.

I'm sorry you're friends have abandoned you. A few of mine who seemed supportive in the beginning weren't. Even the supportive ones tired of me talking about BPD. One sums up his advice as, "she's stupid." Yes... .but that doesn't help, does it? Like I'm supposed to split her myself, and disregard my feelings?

Keep posting, FG, we are here for you.

Turkish

[Aussie JJ]

It is so much harder as you have no control over it.  She has instigated this against you. 

I and every other person here has been their.  It is one of the most horrid pains imaginable. 

[Infared]

FG, for me the reason that it hurts so much is that I truly loved the person that I "thought" that I was with. They are so good at pretending and drawing us in, but not out of what I know as compassion and love,. I think they draw us in out of sick need, like we are prey.

I truly loved my pwBPD and her family (we were together 5 yrs.)... .but in an instant (for me, not her) she was with someone else, treating me horribly, lying to everyone in her life an I am sure smearing me.

It devastated me, I did not sleep for two months (I did not know that that was possible), I lost 30lbs. etc.   a lot of this I think was because I was in so deep with her because of the mirroring, but for me I thought she was my soul mate of soul mates and then she was this abuser once she had attached to her new prey.

I was turned inside out emotionally that the epson that I thought was my partner and my ally was now my abuser. I was totally she'll shocked, I just crumpled inside. I was not possible. Unfortunately, I was.

I knew I was in such pain that I had to seek help other than just my friends.  I sought out a therapist as I intuitively knew that a lot of my pain had to do with me, not just her. I also got heavily involved in a self-help group.(I have addiction issues and am in recovery)

All I am saying here, is if you are in as much pain as it sounds like you are, maybe you should reach out for extra, and all, the help you can get.

I do understand how you feel. It's about "how could someone that I was so close with, and shared so much with treat my like this?".  It really really hurts. Beyond words.

Coming here and letting your feelings out is a good start!

[Caredverymuch]

I made my introduction the other day and found some wonderful tools that I am still sorting through. The admins here seem genuine.

Right now I am just in tears. Yes, you read that right. I'm a 34 year old man who's crying uncontrollably right now. All week I've done well to keep my emotions together. No texts, no calls, no attempts at contacta as per the advice from my mother. As I lay here trying to go to sleep I am overwhelmed with emotions. How can I possibly love someone, although with BPD, who seemingly hates me? Someone who has shown not one ounce of care and tells people she hates me and bad mouths me on Facebook? Someone who has severed all contact since I expressed how I truely felt. It's been nearly 7 weeks since the separation and I have lost nearly 20lbs from being unable to eat. I barely sleep. I work myself to death 70 hours a week. I don't talk to anyone about her anymore, or post anything on my Facebook. I am so lost right now. I need a martini and a gd hug. Yet, my friends who were there a few weeks ago have abandoned me because I just won't give up, let go and move on. I have absolutely NO ONE around me. I have to exert every ounce of strength not to call her, not like she would answer anyway.

I understand that by showing her I don't need her in my life, that I want her, she MIGHT see things differently. However, at this stage I feel that if I let go. She will just move on and I'll become just another memory. I have such a big heart, full of compassion and love. I'm not an alcoholic, or a drug user. I don't hit women. Why am I in this situation? Why do I feel like a bag of trash that just got sat on the curb on any given day?

Is it too much to ask for what she really wants? Not in a text, or phone call or a whisper in an online game. Face to face. Like a human should talk to another human.

Anyway... .I am going to finish crying myself to sleep, if I sleep at all.


Thanks for giving me a place where I can vent and not be judged.

In tears, we all have the same story.  You have support here.  Be gentle with yourself and seek perhaps a good therapist as suggested.  So many of us have had to do the very hard and unfair work of learning about this hidden disorder until we are in so deep, called BPD.  Really no one understands unless they have lived it.  My friends also got sick of my constant needs to understand what was happening and why when I was in your place.   We all understand here though.  Sending support.  It gets better, i know hard to believe, but it does. Take care of yourself first. 

[antjs]

Just reading your words and remembering when i was in your place brings pain back to me.what we have in common:

1- friends abandoning us

2- no closure

3- no one to talk to

4- losing 10 kgs in 1 month and could not sleep more than 5 hours

5- lots of cries and depression

My case was worse as i had ptsd and panic attacks. I also do not have a job now and i had a lot of times and you know your brain can be your worst enemy if you have lots of time. I also received a lot of bad news after the break up concerning other parts of my life


But it gets better. Trust me it does. Time, persistence and being kind to yourself and taking care of yourself will get you there. Keep us posted here please. People here are really kind and helpful and as you said non judgmental

[FabulousGandalf]

I think my worst problem at the moment besides being alone is wondering what I should do? How long do I wait to try and contact her? Do I even continue trying? I watched a video and read an article this morning and took some footnotes to study. My heart says keep fighting, but my logic says just, as the Frozen song suggests "Let It Go."  I can honestly say that I truly do love her despite all these idiosyncrasies... .But not because I'm lonely, or because it's been nearly four years, but because I know what it's like to be in love and this is what it feels like. I guess only time will tell. I wish I had a mediator between us or something.

As for having too much time, well. I work 55-70 hours a week now. Trying to keep myself occupied. I am hoping to get this new job today to replace my first job. It doesn't matter what I try to do I just can't seem to stop thinking about it, or even smile and laugh anymore.

Thanks again for all your support. I am glad I can relate to people who understand and have been through this same stuff. My so called "friends" just don't understand.

[OutOfEgypt]

Hey man,

I'm sorry for what you're going through.  But why try to "keep your emotions together?"  Why not allow yourself to cry and hurt?  The only way out is THROUGH, my friend -not by suppressing them.  That's what is so counterintuitive.  We think we need to lock down our emotions, but really if we allow ourselves to face the hurt we find that we actually survive it and begin to stand up again.

And yes, many friends get sick of hearing about it.  They say, "Why can't you just let it go.  You're going to have to just let her go."  On one hand, they have no clue what they are talking about.  They have no idea how hard it is, and if they were in the same shoes they would be doing the same thing.  And that hurts deeply.  They think it is so easy?  It is the worst thing in the world.  But on the other hand, if they are really our friends, they are pointing out a truth: we're just torturing ourselves.  In spite of how it feels, ruminating over and over and hanging onto them is something we are doing to ourselves.  And that is not easy to watch someone do, if we actually care about them.  Notice I did not say "loving them" or "being sad".  I am specifically talking about the obsessive hanging onto them, which is actually a way for us to avoid facing the pain.  The direct experience of the pain would be more honest.

I understand that by showing her I don't need her in my life, that I want her, she MIGHT see things differently. However, at this stage I feel that if I let go. She will just move on and I'll become just another memory.

Here's the thing that is terrible but true.  Even if you don't let her go, she will probably just move on.  And that, in my experience, is what happens if you are lucky.  If you aren't lucky, she keeps coming back to you, over and over, until there is nothing left of you or until you finally say "no more," which doesn't sound like it will happen any time soon.  It took me probably 6-8 years for me to finally realize how my wife was.  I lost all of who I am.  And for what?  To be cheated on over and over, to be blamed like I was never good enough, to be lied to repeatedly, to be treated like I'm a child?

You should not have to chase a woman to keep her, not like that.  The person you love is not the person she is.  The person you love is the person you still wish she was.  Not the same thing.  Or to put it another way... .you love her, but the person you are holding onto, the daydreams you are clobbering yourself with, are with the person you wish she was -not the person she actually is.  Wouldn't you love to have a person actually be able and willing to RECEIVE all that love and light that you have inside?  Isn't that what you are made for?  I'm sorry man, but you are trying to make her into something she isn't and can't be.  You're refusing to face reality.  And I'm telling you from someone who has been there.

Is it too much to ask for what she really wants? Not in a text, or phone call or a whisper in an online game. Face to face. Like a human should talk to another human.

That would be nice.  But you are assuming that she is just like you.  You are assuming she is a person who can sit across the table from you and have that kind of close, one-to-one, interpersonal connecting.  But BPD people can't really do that at the same level, and to the level that they do, they do anything to sabotage it.

Crying is good for the soul.  Let it out, my friend.  It's what helps you see things more clearly.

[Infared]

I think my worst problem at the moment besides being alone is wondering what I should do? How long do I wait to try and contact her? Do I even continue trying? I watched a video and read an article this morning and took some footnotes to study. My heart says keep fighting, but my logic says just, as the Frozen song suggests "Let It Go."  I can honestly say that I truly do love her despite all these idiosyncrasies... .But not because I'm lonely, or because it's been nearly four years, but because I know what it's like to be in love and this is what it feels like. I guess only time will tell. I wish I had a mediator between us or something.

As for having too much time, well. I work 55-70 hours a week now. Trying to keep myself occupied. I am hoping to get this new job today to replace my first job. It doesn't matter what I try to do I just can't seem to stop thinking about it, or even smile and laugh anymore.

Thanks again for all your support. I am glad I can relate to people who understand and have been through this same stuff. My so called "friends" just don't understand.

FG... .I soo identify with where you are right now... .I was in EXACTLY the same place, and I know that the pain is excruciating. Like nothing you have ever felt before.  (I personally have addiction issues and I think that that entered into my plight)... .I went to therapy and my therapist asked: "You love this person, and you made a home for them and treated them with love, and they used to treat you differently, but today they treat you horribly... .yet you are still trying to love them? What about loving you? Don't you believe that you deserve be treated in a caring loving manner?  We need to take a look at that."

As much as my heart ached, and as torn as I was between my head and my heart... .and still having a few flakes of sanity, I really could not ignore what she was saying to me. Not easy.  I had to focus on me... .it didn't matter if the other person was correct to act the way they were, mentally ill, a monster, etc... etc... .In that moment the person was incredibly dishonest,  extremely cruel, abusive and vindictive.   Why did I keep putting my foot in the road? the cars and buses were going to run it over. It was fact. The facts had changed, and not to my liking, but I had to go on a painful journey and learn to love me.  I reached out and got a lot of help, and slowly got thru it. I had to really love me and take care of me.

You can too!

[Caredverymuch]

I think my worst problem at the moment besides being alone is wondering what I should do? How long do I wait to try and contact her? Do I even continue trying? I watched a video and read an article this morning and took some footnotes to study. My heart says keep fighting, but my logic says just, as the Frozen song suggests "Let It Go."  I can honestly say that I truly do love her despite all these idiosyncrasies... .But not because I'm lonely, or because it's been nearly four years, but because I know what it's like to be in love and this is what it feels like. I guess only time will tell. I wish I had a mediator between us or something.

As for having too much time, well. I work 55-70 hours a week now. Trying to keep myself occupied. I am hoping to get this new job today to replace my first job. It doesn't matter what I try to do I just can't seem to stop thinking about it, or even smile and laugh anymore.

Thanks again for all your support. I am glad I can relate to people who understand and have been through this same stuff. My so called "friends" just don't understand.

FG... .I soo identify with where you are right now... .I was in EXACTLY the same place, and I know that the pain is excruciating. Like nothing you have ever felt before.  (I personally have addiction issues and I think that that entered into my plight)... .I went to therapy and my therapist asked: "You love this person, and you made a home for them and treated them with love, and they used to treat you differently, but today they treat you horribly... .yet you are still trying to love them? What about loving you? Don't you believe that you deserve be treated in a caring loving manner?  We need to take a look at that."

As much as my heart ached, and as torn as I was between my head and my heart... .and still having a few flakes of sanity, I really could not ignore what she was saying to me. Not easy.  I had to focus on me... .it didn't matter if the other person was correct to act the way they were, mentally ill, a monster, etc... etc... .In that moment the person was incredibly dishonest,  extremely cruel, abusive and vindictive.   Why did I keep putting my foot in the road? the cars and buses were going to run it over. It was fact. The facts had changed, and not to my liking, but I had to go on a painful journey and learn to love me.  I reached out and got a lot of help, and slowly got thru it. I had to really love me and take care of me.

You can too!

FG, Infared just gave you the answer we all needed to find to get to the other side.  Let's say it again:

"I had to really love me and take care of me. You can too!" 

Thats the only thing we can control.  And the only way it gets better.  Its time to worry about yourself now.  Thats how healing begins

[FabulousGandalf]

I did try and then I realized that it wasn't working, so I backed off a few weeks ago. Since then I have been researching and reading in order to prepare myself for one last attempt. If I can understand BPD a little more and give her some time to ponder things over. Maybe she'll be willing to try therapy. I know that seems exactly like not facing reality. However, if I have to sacrifice how I feel at times. Then I am okay with that. There is another factor that doesn't involve me that is too sensitive to talk about here that is playing a big role in our situation. Said factor trumps how I feel.

However, I am taking your advice to heart and considering it. It all rings true.

[MommaBear]

Hi FG, I'm kind of new here as well. Welcome to the newbie boat!

You're not alone. We've all broken down and cried, sobbed, begged, bargained, pleaded, lost weight, stayed up nights and prayed for something - anything - to make the pain stop.

We've all sat there wondering what to do. Do we call? Do we walk away? Do we wait? What do we say if, God forbid, we get the chance? Will we ever get closure? Can we make things work? Was it our fault?

We drive ourselves crazy with the questions.

And them? They don't give it a second thought.

The thing I've been having the most difficulty with was the idea that I'll never get closure. From HIM. I have to get closure myself. And that, my friend, is no small feat given the wounds they leave us with.

And our "friends" ... .God, if this d/o doesn't inspire the most twisted loyalties in people, I don't know what does. People I had known for 8 years scarcely gave me the time of day after we split. People I had attended weddings with, shared in the birth and raising of their kids, funerals and all kinds of major life events ... .they just wrote me off.

I think the worst of it was that so many people knew what a jerk he had been to me, and chose to side with him anyway. Bros before ... .well, you know the expression.

Here is a place you can come and be yourself. We won't judge you, and we've all been where you are right now. We all are on the path to recovery, and some of us have learned a few things that can be helpful to others in times like this. Don't ever feel alone. For every pwBPD, there's a string of exes who, at one time or other, were pretty much in your shoes.

Hang in there. It does get easier, and here, you don't have to explain yourself. We all understand. I agree with one of the previous posters who said his friends would simply say, "she's stupid" and that wasn't much help. You won't get obvious statements like that or lame platitudes (There's more fish in the sea! Her loss! Get back on that horse, buddy!) from us. What you will get, is understanding and tools to help you though this.

 And you will get through it. Many of us have, and we are here to help.

[myself]

Perhaps you've already read this... .It's helped me and others many times:

https://bpdfamily.com/content/surviving-break-when-your-partner-has-borderline-personality

I wish I had a mediator between us or something.

I've wished this, too. It ultimately comes down to each person would really need to face themselves, which you sound like you are already doing on your own. Keep heading that direction. You'll get there.

We get so wound up in these relationships, when they crack and break and fall apart, the tension we'd been hanging onto so tightly begins to release. Allowing our true emotions and understanding to flow freely.

She won't change unless she chooses to. Same for you, for me, for all of us.

[antjs]

I did try and then I realized that it wasn't working, so I backed off a few weeks ago. Since then I have been researching and reading in order to prepare myself for one last attempt. If I can understand BPD a little more and give her some time to ponder things over. Maybe she'll be willing to try therapy. I know that seems exactly like not facing reality. However, if I have to sacrifice how I feel at times. Then I am okay with that. There is another factor that doesn't involve me that is too sensitive to talk about here that is playing a big role in our situation. Said factor trumps how I feel.

However, I am taking your advice to heart and considering it. It all rings true.

It was not working because you were using your logic to solve it. people with BPD have their minds working in a very different way than other people. logic do not logic with them. for a borderline feelings are the facts, and if the facts do not match the feelings they will twist the facts in their minds until it suits the feelings.

nobody can change another one. people (whether BPD or not) do not change except when they want to. but remember that it is not about you. it is not about if you were more patient, kind, mind reading... etc. borderlines always heighten  their levels of needs if they get their current needs met ie they become abusive the more you become submissive. there is nothing you can do better to save or fix her. actually nobody can save or fix another person. people should seek help when they feel they want or need to. try to focus on yourself and to take care of yourself during those difficult times. try to be more "selfish".

[Caredverymuch]

I did try and then I realized that it wasn't working, so I backed off a few weeks ago. Since then I have been researching and reading in order to prepare myself for one last attempt. If I can understand BPD a little more and give her some time to ponder things over. Maybe she'll be willing to try therapy. I know that seems exactly like not facing reality. However, if I have to sacrifice how I feel at times. Then I am okay with that. There is another factor that doesn't involve me that is too sensitive to talk about here that is playing a big role in our situation. Said factor trumps how I feel.

However, I am taking your advice to heart and considering it. It all rings true.

It was not working because you were using your logic to solve it. people with BPD have their minds working in a very different way than other people. logic do not logic with them. for a borderline feelings are the facts, and if the facts do not match the feelings they will twist the facts in their minds until it suits the feelings.

nobody can change another one. people (whether BPD or not) do not change except when they want to. but remember that it is not about you. it is not about if you were more patient, kind, mind reading... etc. borderlines always heighten  their levels of needs if they get their current needs met ie they become abusive the more you become submissive. there is nothing you can do better to save or fix her. actually nobody can save or fix another person. people should seek help when they feel they want or need to. try to focus on yourself and to take care of yourself during those difficult times. try to be more "selfish".

A J is right FG. Borderlines will always up the ante.  You can never do enough to " prove your love."  They will grind you into the ground with devaluation and when you pull your way up and go back pleading for answers and pledging your unwavering love and commitment.  They'll up the ante higher.  Back down to the curb you will go.  It will be your fault too in their mind.  You'll somehow deserve it because you are going to leave them anyway.  You cannot logic with a borderline for your needed answers.  They indeed change the facts to fit THEIR emotions.  Its not fair. Its not right. Its BPD.

Like Momma said, we will support and provide any answers from our own heart wrenching experiences of not sleeping for months, when you do waking up sobbing, not eating, not functioning, feeling alone, desperate, full of incredible heart ache and such confusion as to why this all happened when you just want to give your unwavering love.   Pleading with  and begging God. St Jude Novena after novena to bring him back and stop the horrible deep pain.  Done it all.  I know how so many of you feel. 

It gets better.  You will get through this like we all are doing. And we are so sorry for your pain.  Keep posting and consider therapy which really helps too. 

[momtara]

While some people disagree with me, if you think you need to try once more (and it's not dangerous) then I think it's good to try, or say the things you need to say - just so that you have closure later if it doesn't work.  You might have to write and rewrite an email, or be sure what you want to say. 

I think if you have the desire to try once more, and you don't take it, you will always wonder if it would have worked. 

Try to remember that she doesn't necessarily hate you - it's a disease.  A very very cruel disease.  You should have someone in your life telling you how wonderful you are.  But I know you love her.  You will find lots of similar stories here.  They don't all end the same, but we know what you're going thorugh.

[OutOfEgypt]

I was going to echo momtara, but in a way.  Maybe you do need to try one more time, but my reasons are somewhat different.  They aren't the only ones who need to hit "rock bottom" -we do, too.  We need to come to the place where we are totally sick of being clobbered by them and carrying the weight of all the blame and confusion in the relationship.  Until we get there, we will never stop wondering if there wasn't "something else we could have done."  We have to get to the point where we can say, "I really don't care if there's something else in some weird fantasy world that I could have done differently to make it different, because I'm tired of feeling like life sucks so bad that it isn't worth living, and I realize it will always be that way with this person.  Therefore, I'm ready for a permanent new direction in my life."

Maybe you aren't there.  Maybe she's not as bad as some of the BPD's mentioned in this online family.  So, if you decide to try again with her, then hats off to you.  No judgment here.

However, I suspect that at least part of what hangs you onto her is the belief that if you let her go and she (by some miracle) moves on and finds happiness that it will mean that you "blew it" and are the loser you always thought you were.  But that's not true.  If you woke up tomorrow and found complete satisfaction and happiness in what you have (maybe a new woman, whatever), wouldn't you be able to be happy for her if she found happiness, too, instead of feeling like you *can't* let her go?  That's how it was for me.  You don't *need* her.  You can still love someone you can't be with.  And if you saw what you have and were given a glimpse of the free life you could have without her, you might be able to wish her well a lot more easily.

I disagree a little bit, though, when people try to call this a "disease".  Its common to call alcoholism a "disease", too.  This perhaps fits that description even less, in my humble opinion.  It is like an addiction, a whole engrained lifestyle of dysfunctional and even sinister coping mechanisms.  Considering that they know what they are doing to people, how they are hurting them, but  can't seem to care that much, I tend to think of them more as hurtful people rather than as victims.  But everybody's a victim.  We live in a world where you cannot avoid being hurt and even betrayed badly.  Some people take responsibility for how their victimhood makes them victimize others, and others don't.  Others keep doing what they do because they are always able to find a sure supply of people who will follow them around and do their best to "take" it.

[momtara]

Yeah, what outofegypt said. 

Incidentally, even if she moves on, we all know that those next relationships end up pretty much the same way as ours.

[elessar]

FG... .just cry it out. I am doing that right now. I have been doing it for last 7 days. I am a 29 year old man, and sometimes we need a hug. So cry it out as long as you want. And what OutofEgypt said about moving on is very true. She will keep coming back. Mine kept coming back every few weeks for last 4 years. Before that 4 years, she had left me for 4 years. So last 9 years I have dealt with this pain. I joined this forum 18 months back, and it helped me. I swore to myself she wont keep pulling me in. She tried, she did, but not fully. Except two months back, she started trying to pull me in extremely hard. When I finally cracked and told her I love her, within two hours she had decided to marry another guy her parents had decided for her in the last few weeks. How is that possible you ask right? That is why I am crying. 11 days back she was as close to me as if it is 2006 or 2011. Now I am totally cut out, and next month she is probably getting married to someone she has known for a few weeks. So I cry. So we all cry. Wednesday I will start my 4th round of therapy in last 3 yrs. If you need help, go get help. Friends mean well, but they won't understand a BPD relationship. So we should cut them some slack. From their perspective, we choose to be with this person who makes us miserable, and then we complain about it. It can get tiring for them. Too many friends of mine don't talk to me like old times anymore. That's why I felt talking to a therapist is better than losing friends. I know it hurts. She was your soul mate. I spent blood, sweat, tears taking care of this child of a woman for years. And kicking me away in her happy mood has been her way of thanking me. So I know it hurts. It is unfair. Hopefully we can learn a life lesson and get mentally healthy one day, from this destruction that the person we loved the most have caused.

[Blimblam]

Hey dude

You've been given a lot of great advice here so far.  I just want to add this as it may be useful to understand the potential seriousness of the situation.  What Ooe said about you needing to hit rock bottom is correct. 

I like you was working 55 to 60 hours a week.  Even after the initial breakup I was still in touch with her I cried a couple time but held it in.  I still had hope because after all we were soulmates.  I repressed all my painfull emotions and pushed through it with about 20 hours of sleep a week.  Untill I couldn't anymore untill the abuse I received from remaining in contact with her made me lose control.  When it hit me and I hit that rock bottom for me I lost my sanity dude.  I couldn't even function but on the most very basic of levels.  I lost a lot of money pretty much my job the respect of my name and everyone I know.  The anxiety attacks were so intense and so frequent I was going to kill myself to make it stop. 

You not only have you self esteem on the line here but your sanity.  If you need to keep going back to her to really get what you need just make sure you prepare your life for the potential of a catastrophic melt down first because that rabbit hole just keeps going and going. Even once you hit rock bottom their are cracks you can slip through and then your reality become all of your unconscious fears and they shape your reality and your sanity is gone.  That rabbit hole is endless man and if you take it too far you will need adequate time and space to recover.  Like maybe tell your work somone close to you is dying and you may need to take. Leave of absence for a few months in the future.

[MommaBear]

You not only have you self esteem on the line here but your sanity.  If you need to keep going back to her to really get what you need just make sure you prepare your life for the potential of a catastrophic melt down first because that rabbit hole just keeps going and going. Even once you hit rock bottom their are cracks you can slip through and then your reality become all of your unconscious fears and they shape your reality and your sanity is gone.  That rabbit hole is endless man and if you take it too far you will need adequate time and space to recover.  Like maybe tell your work somone close to you is dying and you may need to take. Leave of absence for a few months in the future.

Nicely put, Blimblam. This is very, VERY true. I can't even tell you how people with this d/o impact us in ways we never thought possible. So much so that we start acting out in ways we never thought possible.

Your sanity does slip away, and you find yourself doing and thinking things that just aren't in your nature.

The rabbit hole never, EVER ends. You just keep falling, and when you think to yourself, "Alright, I always knew they were capable of cruelty, but never THIS level of cruelty. Surely, this is as far as it'll go and no further, right?" They find a way to push that limit as well.

I always thought I knew my ex, and what he was capable of (or rather, what he WASN'T capable of). Boy, was I wrong! I once read that people with BPD are like emotional terrorists. That makes us emotional hostages, and sanity is a luxury in a hostage situation. Believe me, they only push you to do things you'd never normally do just as a way to cope. Just like a terrorist.

[Infared]

I agree with everything that BLIM and Momma say... .it doesn't stop.

My ex felt like she was my soulmate (she even told me "our souls touched" while I was letting her abuse me!).

My sanity, definitely slipped away... .and I thought about ending it.

I did not know about the disease of BPD then... .so I was at a severe disadvantage , thinking that this was the torture of "love".

News flash.  I was not HER soulmate. I am sure she would laugh with sick joy at my thought of that.   

The one main ingredient that I needed to focus on was that "I" kept going back for more. AGAIN AND AGAIN.

The single biggest weapon that we have to save ourselves, and our sanity and the hardest one that we find to use is No Contact. None.  Then we have a chance at getting better.

[elessar]

Those were some amazing answers up there. The rabbit hole truly doesn't end. Every time you think you hit rock bottom, and tell yourself "it can't get any worse than this"... .it does. It truly is amazing. If you research online, this illness is like an emotional black hole. And we know that black holes don't have a bottom. You just keep falling and falling. And every time you give them another chance because act more contrite than the previous time, you end up falling even worse than before. After falling for 20 times you might say, it can't get worse right? But it does.

Maybe a year and a half back I would read these warnings and thought, "these people sound so bitter and must be exaggerating. I am sure my SO isn't like this. I am sure he/she will 'see', 'realize', and 'change'."

The situation might turn out to be different for you, but be careful. Without them accepting that "I have a mental disorder. I need help. I need to work at it till I have stabilized", its a slow downward spiral for all of you.

[Frankcostello]

I did try and then I realized that it wasn't working, so I backed off a few weeks ago. Since then I have been researching and reading in order to prepare myself for one last attempt. If I can understand BPD a little more and give her some time to ponder things over. Maybe she'll be willing to try therapy. I know that seems exactly like not facing reality. However, if I have to sacrifice how I feel at times. Then I am okay with that. There is another factor that doesn't involve me that is too sensitive to talk about here that is playing a big role in our situation. Said factor trumps how I feel.

However, I am taking your advice to heart and considering it. It all rings true.

It was not working because you were using your logic to solve it. people with BPD have their minds working in a very different way than other people. logic do not logic with them. for a borderline feelings are the facts, and if the facts do not match the feelings they will twist the facts in their minds until it suits the feelings.

nobody can change another one. people (whether BPD or not) do not change except when they want to. but remember that it is not about you. it is not about if you were more patient, kind, mind reading... etc. borderlines always heighten  their levels of needs if they get their current needs met ie they become abusive the more you become submissive. there is nothing you can do better to save or fix her. actually nobody can save or fix another person. people should seek help when they feel they want or need to. try to focus on yourself and to take care of yourself during those difficult times. try to be more "selfish".

They will always up the ante.  No matter how hard you try, or no matter how much you "change" it will never be enough in their mind.  My exBPDgf kept saying that if I only "changed" things would get better between us, all the while shacking up with other guys.  She doesn't and won't think like you.  The hardest part is letting go, it takes strength and fortitude to move on but that's something we need to do sometimes.  I went through it and it hurt like hell but once I moved on i never looked back.  I also had the same thoughts what if I lost my soulmate because I didn't try hard enough, the answer is we did try more than hard enough it was them who didn't appreciate or couldn't appreciate what we gave them.  Sometimes we need to step away and look at it from the outside and tell ourselves we don't need to be treated this way or discarded in this way.  The faster you move on, the sooner you will realize and see that the relationship you had wasn't healthy and the person you thought you were in live with was just a facade.  It's hard to move on, but one day you will look back and wished you had moved on sooner.  I know it's hard, and it took me a long time of crying asking myself why, until I saw that my exBPDgf didn't care, she was hooking up with other guys while lying to me.  It's been over two years now and I would never go back with her nor would I want to have her in my life in any way. 

[OutOfEgypt]

Of all the common threads, that seems to be one of the biggies:

They will always up the ante.  No matter how hard you try, or no matter how much you "change" it will never be enough in their mind.  My exBPDgf kept saying that if I only "changed" things would get better between us, all the while shacking up with other guys.

Yes, you cannot fill a black hole.  In fact, their dynamic is designed to make sure that you don't, that you are never enough, that there always some reason.

[Infared]

OK... .I know that this is not a lighthearted or funny topic... .but I am an avid photographer and I came across this image on Flickr... .and I know that the graffiti was written by someone in a relationship with a pwBPD!    

https://www.flickr.com/photos/37605747@N07/14521228527/in/photostream/lightbox

Just a thought I had about this topic in the thread and what has to do with real love.  My expwBPD just dropped a load on me a week before X-mas that she was leaving me. "I need to be out on my own, I need space... etc".  So of course I did not know yet that she was in another relationship and felt that the hook was set deep enough that she could safely leave and be in the next thing with no lapse of safety/attention.   OK... .So I did not know... .I was upset... .I tried to talk to her... .but there was a shift (which of course I did not understand because I was clueless), I was so upset and shocked I even begged her to make sure that that was what she really wanted to be out on her own... . Now here is where I believe the "real" love part came in on my behalf... .I was in a TON of pain... .I can't put it into words... .for me this was just so sudden... .I am putting up "our" Christmas tree by myself... .(so sad and painful... .I almost disintegrated), but I sat down with myself, and I dug really deep and I said... hey... if you really love this girl you are going to get out of the way/help her to get where she tells you she needs to be.

So, as painful as it was... .with support from my support group I made it a really smooth transition for her... .even though I was in soo much pain (all the while she does not care at all, she has a fire in her pants and is running off to someone else and thinks hey, this is great ... he (me) is such a sucker... he is making this easy for me)... . but I was showing REAL love (her loss of course)... .and I did everything I could inside me not to bother her once she had moved, respecting what she had "told" me, that she needed her space.  After the cat was out of the bag, and I knew what had gone down,  she had made a statement to me "well, maybe if you had tried harder to get me back in the beginning, things might have been different"... .LOL!... .The BPD is VERY sick... .she tells me that she needs to be on her own, and at much pain and suffering to myself I facilitate her request and her take on my actions is that if I "really" loved her, I would have been banging on her door, acting out in desperation and drama, calling all the time, etc. and that is what she perceives as love.  Unhealthy co-dependency. And had I done that it would have just made her feel even more powerful, I would not have been effective and she would have just toyed with me and abused me, more than she already had.  

Real love is just quiet sometimes. Painfully quiet.

[elessar]

Oh Infrared, reading your statements made me cry again. Not in a bad way, but how I keep coming back to these boards because our SO's behaviors seem are like a mirror image... .there are X number of traits, and most of them exhibit some or most of those traits. Your ex wanted to move on to someone else, and when you didn't play the game she wanted she said "well, maybe if you had tried harder to get me back in the beginning, things might have been different". YOU are to blame for why she is leaving, not her.

When my ex (I am not sure when did we become exes because for last 4 yrs... .or 9 yrs... .depends how you count she comes and goes every few 4-6 weeks) told me she has to decide whether to be with me or marry another guy (she was totally in "love" with me and wanted to marry me these past few months)... .she said she would have married me if I had just wanted to get married right now. When I played her game and said ok, we will get married now... .but your dad will still say no, what will you do then? I called her bluff and she replied "well, I guess I know my answer now". Two days later she called me to say she has said yes to marry the other guy. And again her reasons were... .you could have said we should get married right now, and she proceeded to trash my income and my education (I have a masters, have worked, now doing a PhD... .she is a dentist, earns over 130k and said yes to a doctor) and how she wants financial security and I would be jobless with my degree and she doesn't want to support me. Once again, her agreeing to marry another guy was my fault. But then, we have played this exact game over the last 3 yrs. This time I believe she will most likely proceed to actually tie the knot with someone she has known for about a month or less. But to the point, when we are not their guardian angels... .everything is our fault. Only if we were taller, richer, more educated, more pious etc etc etc... .but what do they have to give? What are they good at? "Appearances". They are hollow inside, so they are obsessed with how they look, or how they look with their SO, how their family/friends look at them. If they are attractive, they will directly or indirectly always make you feel like crap about your looks. Or that you don't look good together anymore. Just physical appearances, nothing else. After serving her, worshipping her, and helping her for most of past 13-14 years through teenage years, college years, her PTST from past sexual abusive, and now adult life... .she is now off with a tall, good looking physician. Because the appearance is good, and it fulfills their "idea" of how normal things should be that they didn't have in childhood. And most of us in these boards are left wondering, will everything work out perfectly with the next guy while we spent years or even half our lives with them when they were going through hell?

[Infared]

elessar... .just feel your feelings... .they are valid no matter what they are... .My pwBPD REALLY wanted me to ask her to marry ... .it is actually her main excuse for leaving...   During a large part of the relationship, I had a 100K job... .and I was planning a trip to the South Pacific (that was definitely in another life! LOL!), truly... where I was going to ask her to marry me... .was getting a diamond in New York thru a friend... .the whole deal... .we were about 4 years in and living together and even though I had a divorce in my life... .I loved her soo much I finally said... what the hell... .and so ... .I lose my job before the trip... .(thru no fault of my own... the company just lopped 25 of the 30 people out of the division. Boom.)  So no trip, and a man with no job does not ask a woman to marry her... .no way... .and she never knows about my plans to ask... .I had to let that go for the time being... .

any who... .she runs off with this guy and I am asking her to go to therapy (before I know about the other guy) and I am getting 7-yr.-old retorts with the power of the other penis behind them that I do not know about ... .like, "no... only married people go to therapy"... etc... etc... .  Then I find out about the new hero... .and she is saying things like I would have married you in a gas station... etc... .and then when I told her that the trip that we cancelled,which she knew about, I was going to ask her to marry me... .and she flipped out on me, screaming that I was a liar, etc... .etc... .Of course I was in tears... because why... .like you... .I was soo sincere and as always telling the truth... .etc. etc... . I was so hurt... because I really did love her that much... .and here she is just desecrating me in any way that she can... .just so self-centered and so angry... .very ugly and painful.

I was able to look at her dead in the eye and say... look sweatheart... .I have been around the block and back again... .love is love... .if your REALLY love someone, you love them ... .there does not have to be a marriage... .that does not certify my love for you or yours for me... .but I guess

with you, you needed the certification... .and honey... .that is just bu$hit! You are telling me you ran off with so and so because you could not love me unless I married you... . I am going to go away now and leave you with that echoing in your head... .and you may someday see how stupid you sound... . "Oh... if I can control you then I can love you?"  That ain't love honey! (this is a woman who said she wanted no children... so what is the big deal... .we had each other, and her family and I got along wonderfully... .we had soo soo much... a killer place to live, etc... .but she just could not see it ... .she had to get all crazy in her head and run off with the next suitor... .so... I guess she really didn't love me the way I deserve it... .so my head knows "no loss"... .but my heart never caught up... LOL!... .but I do not think she is capable of loving anyone the way I am talking about love... .not even close... .its all so conditional... .and with a BPD it is the condition of the day, the moment or the second and it changes just a fast... .it is just total insanity... and there really is nothing to hang your hat on... .ever... .

[elessar]

Sorry to hear that dude. Do you mind me asking, is she still with that guy?

[Infared]

Sorry to hear that dude. Do you mind me asking, is she still with that guy?

I am pretty sure she married him... .but that is just a guess... .I have no idea what that stats are now... as I have total NC... .

She did try to ambush me in the supermarket parking lot alone a little while ago... .but I put my head down and moved away as quickly as I could... she was like 5 feet away from me and it REALLY took a lot of self love on my part to get out of there... .

... so I don't really know that status now for here... .

Even if she did marry him... .she is always shopping (for men)... .that is how she treated everyone before me, too.

How would you feel if you were married to her and knew that she was setting up this whole manipulation in a parking lot to "accidentally" run into her ex (me).

She disrespected him and me all in one foul action!   

Strangely, I feel sorry for the guy she is with... .(I never had any jealousy toward him, after all she lied thru her teeth to him)... .  He has no idea what goes on when he is not around... .just like me.

[FabulousGandalf]

Sorry I haven't replied much. I've been keeping to myself a lot this week. Reading all the advice and wisdom from people. I haven't tried to contact her for almost two weeks now. At this point, I really don't know what to think anymore. I am just going to work and watch Netflix for now. I can't say that I don't think about her constantly, because I do. She might be a toxic black hole, but I am willing to try. If I get hurt, well it will be my own fault, but it will also be an experience. I am not going to try and change her, I want her to fix herself with my full support. Certain people that I know who want us to stay together and know the situation say she doesn't even talk about it all. My goal right now is just to leave her be. She'll either get over me faster, or realize how much I care about her and work things out for US. Anyway, I'll keep in touch. All this work tires me.

[elessar]

You sound exactly like me, and countless others. 2 weeks back she wanted to marry me. Last Monday she called me to say she is marrying another dude her parents have found her. I started counseling today for the 5th time in past 8 years. I still say the same thing "hopefully she will realize and change for us. recognize all i have done for her". it shows a few things - my own co-dependency and low self-esteem. 2- she wont change until she hits such a rock bottom that she has to herself decide for therapy. as long as a borderline keeps getting attention, nothing is wrong with them and they wont go for help. i wish it were different. i have been on BPD websites where diagnosed borderlines write their stories. it wasnt fun. we know they are suffering. we want to help. we all do. but what can we humanly do if they are in denial?

[Emelie Emelie]

A J is right FG. Borderlines will always up the ante.  You can never do enough to " prove your love."  They will grind you into the ground with devaluation and when you pull your way up and go back pleading for answers and pledging your unwavering love and commitment.  They'll up the ante higher.  Back down to the curb you will go.  It will be your fault too in their mind.  You'll somehow deserve it because you are going to leave them anyway.  You cannot logic with a borderline for your needed answers.  They indeed change the facts to fit THEIR emotions.  Its not fair. Its not right. Its BPD.

Cared Very Much you really said it here.  Gandalf, I think I've cried a river.  Like the Mississippi.  The grief and pain just builds and builds and then I cry and it releases for a bit.  I'm tired of crying but I think it's healthy.  One thing I try and remember is I didn't just cry at the ending(s).  I cried plenty when I was in it too.  I have to believe these tears will end someday.  If we were together they never would.

[FabulousGandalf]

I have been writing and re-writing my e-mail to her. However. I keep deleting it. I want to make sure it's worded the right way and still gets my feelings across. I am starting on this now so I can give it to her in a month or so.

Would there be anyone who understands BPD a lot more than I do, help me with this task? Not do it for me. Just assist in the wording. I'd be forever grateful.

[OutOfEgypt]

What are you trying to accomplish by writing your letter?  What's the goal?

[FabulousGandalf]

To explain how I feel without looking desprate, to address the issues surrounding the separation.  To explain why I think it's worth saving. A proposed plan of action without seeming weak and submissive. To remind her why we fell in love and got married to begin with. To validate her feelings and show sympathy and empathy.

[OutOfEgypt]

I think you know what you want to say.  Don't worry about how you "sound".  That, right there, is what makes us come off as "weak" -we're always worrying about how we sound or how they will react.  Just say it, if that is what you want to do.  Just remember that she'll still probably find something wrong with it.  But you have to know you said what you wanted to say.

[MommaBear]

To explain how I feel without looking desprate, to address the issues surrounding the separation.  To explain why I think it's worth saving. A proposed plan of action without seeming weak and submissive. To remind her why we fell in love and got married to begin with. To validate her feelings and show sympathy and empathy.

FG, I've been where you are. I have, LITERALLY, over 1000 pages of Facebook conversations where I tried endlessly to articulate my feelings, all thought out and beautifully worded, all reviewed and re-written before sending, also with the intention of not seeming weak or submissive.

pwBPD shape facts to match their emotions, and not the other way around. Read that carefully ... .THEIR emotions, not yours. Yours, although real, valid, and certainly a fact in and of itself, have no bearing on how they think or feel.

You can be the most eloquent, articualte speech writer on earth, but ultimately it comes down to how she's feeling the moment she reads your email. If she's feeling this way or that, it'll dictate her response.

And because feelings come and go, don't expect any potential "progress" you make to last before the next wave on the emotional rollercoater takes place.

Just some thoughts from a seasoned veteran (when it comes to writing and re-writing how I feel). Better to post it here. That way you're guarnteed some validation, new ways of looking at the situation, and a chance to heal. I for one would be glad to read your email and help you though it.  

[OutOfEgypt]

You can be the most eloquent, articualte speech writer on earth, but ultimately it comes down to how she's feeling the moment she reads your email. If she's feeling this way or that, it'll dictate her response.

I second all of what MommaBear said.  I don't want to discourage you from doing what you want to do.  But in all honesty, I look back and think "what's the point?"  At the end of the day, my feelings really played no part in anything.  Their feelings, however, always are pressed onto center stage.  If you want to be heard, you won't be.  Sorry.

[Mutt]

To explain how I feel without looking desprate, to address the issues surrounding the separation.  To explain why I think it's worth saving. A proposed plan of action without seeming weak and submissive. To remind her why we fell in love and got married to begin with. To validate her feelings and show sympathy and empathy.

Hi FabulousGandolf,

I'm sorry about the traumatic event with your spouse and she was in the hospital   I don't agree with a medical doctor telling your wife she is a borderline personality disorder. It is a complex and misunderstood disorder and it can make her symptoms worse by telling her that she's BPD. I'm not a professional but if she's BPD it's a part of her personality, her reality is as real to her as yours is to you. She's just wired differently and the disorder is emotional based.

She is your spouse and you care very much for her and you would like to help. You share a hobby with her. You have been going through a lot in a short period of time. If I understand correctly a judge put a restraining order on her for 90 days? It is difficult to accept that a loved on has a mental illness that we cannot fix for them. Is she self aware that there's something different about her or is she in denial? The willing to change and seek help has to come from her and the people that live her can support her getting herself into therapy. She needs to want that. Change needs to come from you and she may not have it in here to be able to change, you'll need to adapt.

Learn as much as you can about BPD to understand the behaviors and become indifferent and depersonalized to her behaviors. For example, if she gets upset about something that she believes to be right with because she believes it, doesn't necessary mean that we need to dig our heels in because you know your reality.

7 weeks is a short period of time. A pwBPD live in the moment and it's difficult for them to recall memories due to the way that they feel in the moment. I understand your intentions but it's communicating in a way that she'll likely understand better. Explaining to her the reasons why you fell in love and got married may backfire on you depending on how she feels in the here and now. How does that sound to you?

[FabulousGandalf]

Well I sent my letter. Earlier today I tried to call her just for a civil conversation. She's completely ignoring me. The letter was my final attempt. I am going to set up a marriage counselor for mid September and give her the date in hopes that she shows up. It really breaks my heart that she just tossed me aside. I feel completely worthless right now. I honestly never want to come out of this apt again.  :'( :'(

[FabulousGandalf]

To explain how I feel without looking desprate, to address the issues surrounding the separation.  To explain why I think it's worth saving. A proposed plan of action without seeming weak and submissive. To remind her why we fell in love and got married to begin with. To validate her feelings and show sympathy and empathy.

Hi FabulousGandolf,

I'm sorry about the traumatic event with your spouse and she was in the hospital   I don't agree with a medical doctor telling your wife she is a borderline personality disorder. It is a complex and misunderstood disorder and it can make her symptoms worse by telling her that she's BPD. I'm not a professional but if she's BPD it's a part of her personality, her reality is as real to her as yours is to you. She's just wired differently and the disorder is emotional based.

She is your spouse and you care very much for her and you would like to help. You share a hobby with her. You have been going through a lot in a short period of time. If I understand correctly a judge put a restraining order on her for 90 days? It is difficult to accept that a loved on has a mental illness that we cannot fix for them. Is she self aware that there's something different about her or is she in denial? The willing to change and seek help has to come from her and the people that live her can support her getting herself into therapy. She needs to want that. Change needs to come from you and she may not have it in here to be able to change, you'll need to adapt.

Learn as much as you can about BPD to understand the behaviors and become indifferent and depersonalized to her behaviors. For example, if she gets upset about something that she believes to be right with because she believes it, doesn't necessary mean that we need to dig our heels in because you know your reality.

7 weeks is a short period of time. A pwBPD live in the moment and it's difficult for them to recall memories due to the way that they feel in the moment. I understand your intentions but it's communicating in a way that she'll likely understand better. Explaining to her the reasons why you fell in love and got married may backfire on you depending on how she feels in the here and now. How does that sound to you?

No, the judge put a restraining order on me for 90 days. She asked me the day after she left if she could come and get her stuff. I told her "the kids' clothes, your clothes and toiletries." Reason being is she left me once before. With a pile of bills so I pawned a majority of her precious games and gaming systems to pay the rent. Well she decided that she needed a DVP against me to get her stuff. She lied to the judge about what happened and they granted her one. Even though the day that all this happened I couldn't get a RO against her for her violent behavior. They said it was a mental hygeine issue. I filed for one of those. Got denied and was told it was a domestic issue. I went and tried to get another RO. Denied. She shows up at 3pm with a RO against me and gets her stuff. The system in this state sucks.

Also, I never thought to include the reasons why we fell in love and got married. Man I wish I had thought of that before I sent it.

[FabulousGandalf]

After a conversation with my wife today. I realized that her and I can not be a committed, married couple living together. We were absolutely fine until I moved in with her years ago. Then our relationship steadily declined. We we fine just dating. I have struggled with this for two months now and have been in a dark place. I agreed with most of what she said. Some things I did not. At this point I am ready to sign the divorce papers, uncontested and get on with the healing. She said she didn't hate me, and didn't even dislike me. She also gave me a confidence boost, which actually made me happy.

I asked her to remain friends with me in hopes we can be just that. Friends. Two geeks who can talk about random stuff and not our past. Who knows, maybe somewhere down the line we can go out again for a drink or something. I can't say I wouldn't get emotional if I saw another man on her arm out in public somewhere, but that's part of healing. I wish her the best of luck in life. No grievences, no hate, all that has transpired over the last few years is completely forgiven.

I am very sad, but this is for the best. I just hope I can get through this in one piece.