NPD/HPD ex GF wants to remain friends, but abuses me every step of the way?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I am baffled. My ex demands that friendship is extremely important and although we decided to part ways, demands that we don't throw away our friendship. She has been diagnosed with NPD/HPD and said that her docs said she had a mild case of both. I see extreme behavior myself, but am trying to detach emotionally with her as I still have feelings, but she seems to use every interaction as a way to punish me. Had a 2 1/5 year relationship that she broke off recently. She said she wants to be friends, and I said that I must go NC to get over the breakup, but would pick up the friendship later. She then said I wasn't a friend if I suddenly went NC. I agreed I would just be her friend, but now she calls and tells me about her Match.com dates,and how awesome her last one was and she basically posted herself doing a recreation she know I love, with my hat on (to make a  point) and changed her cover page to the guy flyfishing. (my sport). I had just posted myself recently enjoying the sport alone. When I called her BS out on this, she got mad and sad that it was HER life, and if I don't like it, to unfriend her on Facebook. So I did. She then went ballistic and told me to never call her again and that we were done. I wrote her a simple text that I felt she was being abusive, and posting her date that she knew would hit my newsfeed was in poor form and that she really did not want a friendship, she wants to keep me around until she falls out of love with me and replaces me with somebody else. So this is clearly abuse on her end. Her friends came to me saying she loves me, but that she wants to meet others and get over me because she doesn't think I will ever commit to her. She is a NPD/HPD which turned me off. So now what? Truly end the friendship and go NC and forget her, or allow her back in, but keep her at arms length? I still love her, but I don't see along term romance with her, and I now feel that I need to walk away and end the friendship which is tied to our mutual friends as well. What she is doing on Facebook seems mean. My friends say that she still loves me and wants to date me, but is dating others to try to break the addiction to me and love for me. So do these BPD/NPD/HPD types stay in contact and start fights just so they can slowly detach themselves and fall for somebody else. Seems she cant stay away from me and that she is using me long enough to break the spell and move on, but hurting me along the way on purpose...  

[cheaptrick]

I am baffled. My ex demands that friendship is extremely important and although we decided to part ways, demands that we don't throw away our friendship. She has been diagnosed with NPD/HPD and said that her docs said she had a mild case of both. I see extreme behavior myself, but am trying to detach emotionally with her as I still have feelings, but she seems to use every interaction as a way to punish me. Had a 2 1/5 year relationship that she broke off recently. She said she wants to be friends, and I said that I must go NC to get over the breakup, but would pick up the friendship later. She then said I wasn't a friend if I suddenly went NC. I agreed I would just be her friend, but now she calls and tells me about her Match.com dates,and how awesome her last one was and she basically posted herself doing a recreation she know I love, with my hat on (to make a  point) and changed her cover page to the guy flyfishing. (my sport). I had just posted myself recently enjoying the sport alone. When I called her BS out on this, she got mad and sad that it was HER life, and if I don't like it, to unfriend her on Facebook. So I did. She then went ballistic and told me to never call her again and that we were done. I wrote her a simple text that I felt she was being abusive, and posting her date that she knew would hit my newsfeed was in poor form and that she really did not want a friendship, she wants to keep me around until she falls out of love with me and replaces me with somebody else. So this is clearly abuse on her end. Her friends came to me saying she loves me, but that she wants to meet others and get over me because she doesn't think I will ever commit to her. She is a NPD/HPD which turned me off. So now what? Truly end the friendship and go NC and forget her, or allow her back in, but keep her at arms length? I still love her, but I don't see along term romance with her, and I now feel that I need to walk away and end the friendship which is tied to our mutual friends as well. What she is doing on Facebook seems mean. My friends say that she still loves me and wants to date me, but is dating others to try to break the addiction to me and love for me. So do these BPD/NPD/HPD types stay in contact and start fights just so they can slowly detach themselves and fall for somebody else. Seems she cant stay away from me and that she is using me long enough to break the spell and move on, but hurting me along the way on purpose...  

[hergestridge]

"Friendship" is not very important to you, is it?  I don't think it is, and for a good reason. Even if she would take you back she would continue treating you like a dog.

[Caramel]

Hi Harvej  

I'm sorry that you are going through this. It's not easy.

She is giving you mixed messages and that is confusing you. The push/ pull game is a common BPD trait.

If you have decided to end the relationship then NC is probably the best way to go to detach. It will allow your mind to figure things out away from the confusion and drama to then help you come out of the FOG and see things clearly.

Friendship is based on trust and respect. Did you receive those from her in the past?

Do what you think is best for you. If you have to stay away from social media for a while then do that. Make all the decisions necessary to protect yourself mentally and emotionally.  

We are all here for you whatever decision you make.  

Hang in there.  

[camuse]

I never really understood this. My ex ended it in the end, after many recycles, but was absolutely desperate to be friends. She said she couldn't live without me in her life. She hinted sometimes as getting back together, and we tried being friends for a few weeks, but one day I realised she was not a nice friend - telling me about new men in her life, wanting money and favours, no interest in me. I still don't fully understand why it mattered to her so much. One day I decided simply not to contact her again, and she never contacted me which I was surprised and hurt by. I suppose I still had use to her as a friend and she wanted to keep me around to use and abuse when necessary. What a horrible person.

[slimmiller]

She is feeding off of you emotionally and thats all. When she manages to align another guy up to fill the role you are currently playing (her emotional stability source) she will no longer NEED your friendship and she will find a hundred reasons as to why she wont talk to you anymore.

You are there for her, ask yourself this, will she be there for you when you need someone?

Mine wanted to be friends too while she was crawling into bed with my replacement but once he looked like he could fill her need where I was filling it, (emotions etc) things changed dramatically.

I decided I do not need a friend like that

There really is only one solution, complete and full NC. Its the only message that she will ever understand

[Blimblam]

It won't be possible to be friends with her untill you have fully healed. Anything else is self torment.  But I myself "needed" more torment i suppoce to show me something. Within that pain and suffering within you will find yourself.  

[Infared]

Here is the thing.

People with BPD can't actually have healthy friendships. That requires respect, understanding, honesty, contributing and having & respecting healthy boundaries. This has to be done consistently over a period of time.

What you actually get with a pwBPD, is a twisted selfish mess that sucks the life out of you.

Slimmiller has the right idea. Take care of you.

[free-n-clear]

   There have been countless threads here about the possibility of maintaining a friendship with a BPD ex. The general consensus is that it's just prolonging the agony. pwBPD are no better at genuine friendship than they are at a genuine relationship. I'll give you an example: a couple of months ago, I ran into my uBPDxgf at a function at a local pub. She asked if we could talk privately and during that talk she stated that despite our r/s being over, I was still the truest friend she'd ever had. She told me that she felt she'd been "fu<king up" her life and she pleaded with me to "give me a kick in the arse when you think I need one. You're the only person who's ever cared enough to risk my anger by telling me what I need to hear".

  I told her that I would do that for her (after all, I owe her at least a kick in the arse   and I suggested that I could walk her home after the function to give us a chance to talk some more about what was troubling her. She said that she'd appreciate that and was looking forward to it.

  Within half an hour, she'd left the function with another guy, not to be seen or heard from again 'til last week when she sent a text that simply said WHAT R U UP TO? Needless to say, I didn't bother responding.

[Infared]

  There have been countless threads here about the possibility of maintaining a friendship with a BPD ex. The general consensus is that it's just prolonging the agony. pwBPD are no better at genuine friendship than they are at a genuine relationship. I'll give you an example: a couple of months ago, I ran into my uBPDxgf at a function at a local pub. She asked if we could talk privately and during that talk she stated that despite our r/s being over, I was still the truest friend she'd ever had. She told me that she felt she'd been "fu<king up" her life and she pleaded with me to "give me a kick in the arse when you think I need one. You're the only person who's ever cared enough to risk my anger by telling me what I need to hear".

  I told her that I would do that for her (after all, I owe her at least a kick in the arse   and I suggested that I could walk her home after the function to give us a chance to talk some more about what was troubling her. She said that she'd appreciate that and was looking forward to it.

  Within half an hour, she'd left the function with another guy, not to be seen or heard from again 'til last week when she sent a text that simply said WHAT R U UP TO? Needless to say, I didn't bother responding.

That's BEAUTIFUL!

[BorisAcusio]

 I told her that I would do that for her (after all, I owe her at least a kick in the arse   and I suggested that I could walk her home after the function to give us a chance to talk some more about what was troubling her. She said that she'd appreciate that and was looking forward to it.

  Within half an hour, she'd left the function with another guy, not to be seen or heard from again 'til last week when she sent a text that simply said WHAT R U UP TO? Needless to say, I didn't bother responding.

She was releifed as soon as she managed to offset the anxiety. Your function as soothing object was fulfilled, and was put on the shelf for later use. After the unbearable thoughts and much of the anxiety was gone, she turned to an other possible source of immidate gratification. Basically that is what you get under the label of friendship with a borderline.

In his clinical reports Modell highlights how borderline individuals use inanimate objects to relate to in their adult lives, in place of human relationships. Even more striking is their use of other people as if they were inanimate to serve a self-regulating, soothing function, to be used as the toddler uses a teddy bear, in primitive, demanding ways. It is as if their attachment experiences failed to permit the internalization of an emotion regulation strategy

[OutOfEgypt]

harvej,

My ex did something similar (undiagnosed BPD, but almost certainly some combination of NPD and HPD too).  Unfortunately, I cannot go NC because we share children.  But she still wants to be "friends" and share the latest drama with me or talk to me about how this person is chasing after her, blah blah blah.  I glaze over, nod, and then think of a reason I have to leave or get off the phone or whatever.  No flippin WAY I would ever be her friend.  She does not have "friends".  She has minions.  She has "supply".  She doesn't know what a friend is.  She has people she keeps around to punish/control and people she keeps around to get attention and affirmation from.  That's it.

She said she wants to be friends, and I said that I must go NC to get over the breakup, but would pick up the friendship later. She then said I wasn't a friend if I suddenly went NC. I agreed I would just be her friend... .

This all about one thing to her... .keeping you on a string.  That's it.  This is about her knowing that she still has you and can dictate the rules of the relationship with her abuse, threats, guilt, etc.  And from what I can see, you're still letting her.  Why are you walking on eggshells with her again?  :)o you really think that confronting her on being "abusive" is going to do anything?  That's a laugh.

So do these BPD/NPD/HPD types stay in contact and start fights just so they can slowly detach themselves and fall for somebody else.

No.  They stay in contact to know they have control of you and can push your buttons or suck you back in at the drop of a hat.  They love knowing that they have you still thinking about them, even if it is because you are pissed off.  They don't "slowly detach themselves and fall for somebody else."  They will fall for someone else and have you there to watch it, so they can see your reaction.  This isn't about letting go slowly.  This is about hanging on so they can punish you and keep you in their ever-revolving door of narcissistic supply.  After all, if you are "friends" of theirs (one friend of many with zero boundaries), they certainly don't have to feel any remorse for anything they did to you since you are basically consenting to their domination.

Time for you to decide if you want to take control of your life and relationships or let her do it.

[OutOfEgypt]

My friends say that she still loves me and wants to date me, but is dating others to try to break the addiction to me and love for me.

She may think that, but its #$.  She does not know what "love" is.  She knows what "need" is.  She wants a pack-mule, not a partner.  Is that what you want?

If there is one thing I have learned the hard way it is this:  every time I let her close, even an inch, I regret it.  I am left hurt, offended, confused, and regretting it.  So, I don't.  Never again.  She does not know how to love.   She knows how to use.  She knows how to need.  She knows how to seek out new supply.  And she won't stop, ever.  She will keep doing this to you.  And every now and then she will see if she can pull you back in for sex and tell you that she "still loves you," and you will fall for it, and then she will crap on you all over again but "just want to be friends."  Sorry man.  My ex would be doing the same thing if I let her.

She came over for Easter, since we had ended our final recycle and she had just moved out a short time before that.  It was really for the kids.  I cooked.  I kept things friendly and business like.  But she spent the whole time talking about what losers her friends are, explaining how they are whores... .to our daughters and to me.  She had to explain a few things privately, so she came right up to me while I was cooking, wrapped her arms around me, pressed her body up against mine, and practically stuck her tongue in my ear as she whispered what she needed to say (which was stupid to begin with).  Are you telling me that wasn't intended to be seductive, to keep control of me?  That's what you have to look forward to, and probably worse, if you don't decide for yourself and let her keep writing the rules.

[free-n-clear]

She was relieved as soon as she managed to offset the anxiety. Your function as soothing object was fulfilled, and was put on the shelf for later use. After the unbearable thoughts and much of the anxiety was gone, she turned to another possible source of immediate gratification. Basically that is what you get under the label of friendship with a borderline.

  Precisely, Boris. This encapsulates exactly why any attempt to maintain a 'friendship' with a BPD ex is bound to fail.

   Another of our members - patientandclear (no relation as far as I know  ) - once put it like this: Friendship, from the perspective of a BPD ex, means "You keep giving me everything you always have, but I'm free to be as present in or absent from your life as suits me at any given time, with no rules, no accountability, and no matter what I do, you've already given me permission".

[Infared]

OutofEgypt is right on the money... .the only reason a pwBPD is keeping in touch with you is to see if they still have control. That's it.

... .and how do they find out... .by hooking you in and abusing you to see if they can still cause you pain... .

They are so sick and needy they just want to see if you are there whenever they "might" NEED you... .but they do not love you in any classic sense of the word, want you or have the ability to know or care that they hurt you deeply and should be kind and respectful to you and your feelings and let you be, like someone might do in a normal break up. A healthy, decent person.  PwBPD are not capable of that. That is why NC is so vital to us. ... and if you are an addict, like I am, it is almost impossible to have the willpower not to have contact with the drug you want soo bad, the pwBPD... .Really sick stuff.

If you shut them down, and close up all the cracks, you are mounting your defense against a serious emotional predator. If you give them nothing, they have nothing to feed on and they cannot harm you... .they may keep trying, mine has randomly for years, but you have to be strong... .because it will always be loveless and ugly... .far different than our perception in the mirroring phase... .that is why it is so damn hard to shake... .We want that feeling again... .but it was only us all along that had those deep feeling of love. Not them. They were just manipulating and feeding.  Hard to believe or understand and really own... .but that is the truth of the matter. God knows, that is definitely what I have lived through... .and I was slow to learn... so took on a lot on unnecessary pain.

It is easy to talk about NC... .but for me... .it was extremely hard to do... .it took everything that I had in me... .and now... .it is just a reflex as soon as my radar picks her up!

[BacknthSaddle]

I will just second what the others have said here.  I had the same experience with my ex leaving, demanding that we stay "friends," belittling me for not adjusting properly to the "friendship," meanwhile making emotional and material demands of me but never being available when I was in need in any way.   This is, as Boris says, what you get.  The idea that she "still loves you" will confuse the hell out of you if you don't look at it in the right light.  "I love you" means "you satisfy my needs."  "You're my best friend" means "you are available to me whenever I want wherever I want and I owe you/will give you nothing." 

I never really understood this. My ex ended it in the end, after many recycles, but was absolutely desperate to be friends. She said she couldn't live without me in her life. She hinted sometimes as getting back together, and we tried being friends for a few weeks, but one day I realised she was not a nice friend - telling me about new men in her life, wanting money and favours, no interest in me.

This is my whole story.  Of course, in their eyes, YOU are the horrible person for not giving them exactly what they need, which is someone to inflate their self-image by making him feel bad about her new relationships. 

Mutt wrote this in response to a post of mine the other day:

"Here's a quick list for what I value in friends and friendship:

~ trust

~ compassion

~ support

~ dependability

~ someone I value my time with

~ compatibility

~ positive attitude

So in the context of what she quantifies as a friendship is making someone feel bad about themselves, fixing her problems, guilt, someone to take her frustrations on.


Does that sound like a friend?"

No, it doesn't sound like a friend. 

Seems she cant stay away from me and that she is using me long enough to break the spell and move on, but hurting me along the way on purpose...  

Whether or not she can stay away from you is beside the point.  It's now your job to stay away from her. 

[BacknthSaddle]

It is easy to talk about NC... .but for me... .it was extremely hard to do... .it took everything that I had in me... .and now... .it is just a reflex as soon as my radar picks her up!

It is certainly extremely hard to do.  I have found it very difficult myself, especially of late, despite all my logical mind says.  But, as hard as it is, few would suggest that the hard work wasn't worth it.  I know I look forward to the day it's just a reflex. 

[cheaptrick]

I find myself losing sleep because I feel I went thru a very emotional event. My doc says it may have been some degree of NPD mind games just to get along or NPD ""enslavement" ? I know she will be reaching out and I have deleted everything socially to avoid her, but she is a very strong willed person whom I know will show up at my door saying she just wants to be friends again . Part of me loves her and wants her and the rational part tells me to run away from what get worse in the long run. I see a forum about living with a BPDgf, but I fear I will be very unhappy if I did. How long does NC actually take before I stop thinking dark thoughts to ease the anxiety?

[OutOfEgypt]

It depends on the person.  I don't have NC with my ex.  I have low contact, and that is because we share children.  Are you seeing a T?  If not, I recommend you find a therapist quickly in order to begin processing and working through everything and putting your feet back under you.

If she does come over, just play dumb and woeful.  "Ohh... .I'm just so depressed and confused.  I really just need time to process these things."  It will hurt to have her come over like that, for sure, but you will get over it.  And in time, her target will start moving to someone else.

I know she is strong-willed, but she isn't the Big Bad Wolf.  She is obviously capable of being highly manipulative and nasty, but that doesn't mean she deserves to be put on this pedestal.  You aren't a helpless person, and she is some giant who is coming to eat you up, you know?  That's just not true.

Sorry man.  It will get better.  It takes time and hard work.

[camuse]

  There have been countless threads here about the possibility of maintaining a friendship with a BPD ex. The general consensus is that it's just prolonging the agony. pwBPD are no better at genuine friendship than they are at a genuine relationship.

This reminds me of my uBPD ex who had no friends at all in the area we live. Everyone she met, she thought was an idiot. I tried to help her make some friends, but she said everyone in our city was an idiot. I said, don't be ridiculous, I'm sure you can meet someone you get on with. She said, no - I have three amazing friends, in other cities. She meant people she had been at school with. She talked often about how amazing they were, real true incredible friends, full of ideas and energy, who were there for her whenever she needed them.

She criticised all my friends - the female ones were all "slags," "skanks" and "whores", and the male ones were either stupid, or "not much use to you" as if a friend is judged by how useful they are!

Early on in our relationship I emailed them and suggested they come up and visit for my ex's birthday as a surprise! One didn't reply, another said simply "Who are you? Isn't she a lesbian?" and the third said she was too busy. I never met any of them, they never met up with my ex as long as we were together. Amazing friends right 

Truth was, she had no friends, and didn't want me to have any. Until she deserted me, and then she was desperate for us to be friends. Absolutely desperate, far more desperate for that than for us to be together. I gave it a go, but soon realised that she only contacted me when bored, or needing something. I was just another useful idiot to be used until discarded. No way - she dictated everything in our relationship, so I took the very final bit of control and went NC. What a miserable way to view people.

[Louise7777]

Im with OutOfEgypt on this one. Im recently NC with an uHPD/BPD friend and thats exactly what she does. Its not my first NC with her, she needed attention/ supply so she came back as if nothing had happened... .

Harvej, hey use people. They need people for attention and to fullfill their needs. Enforce your boundaries. She will never change.

[BacknthSaddle]

Until she deserted me, and then she was desperate for us to be friends. Absolutely desperate, far more desperate for that than for us to be together. I gave it a go, but soon realised that she only contacted me when bored, or needing something. I was just another useful idiot to be used until discarded. No way - she dictated everything in our relationship, so I took the very final bit of control and went NC. What a miserable way to view people.

So true. My ex's desperation over being "friends," despite her constant insistence that she didn't lie me anymore (unsolicited), was/is downright pathetic. You have a new boyfriend, and so many "great friends," but you need support from me still? It's very sad, and a reminder of the disorder. Perhaps I've had exes who wanted to remain friends, but none with this kind of desperation.

They are so afraid of losing any attachment at all. The analogies with 3-year-old children are always illustrative: we are toys they stash in the attic. We'll never be their favorite toy again; they have too many new ones. But they can't bear to throw us away. What if they want to use us one day?

It is a sad way to have to live.

[Alex86]

My ex also pleaded to remain friends so as not to lose me from her life. I have been NC until she contacted me

for friendship. I haven't decided yet.

But why do I feel too guilty to leave? Is there any explanation for this?

[BacknthSaddle]

My ex also pleaded to remain friends so as not to lose me from her life. I have been NC until she contacted me

for friendship. I haven't decided yet.

But why do I feel too guilty to leave? Is there any explanation for this?

There is undoubtedly an explanation.  The short version is that you feel guilty for putting your own needs, protection of your own emotional health, over her needs.  Why that is will require some deep soul searching on your part.  But the answer is there.