Looking for support and insight

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Hello,

This is my first post. I have not sought the help of a therapist yet.

I have been very deeply in love, for the last four years, with a man whom I have an intense and troubled relationship with. He is 47, and I have just turned 42. We have been "broken up" for two months now, but there are many loose ends.

First, I want to be clear that I know that the prognosis for our relationship is small; I realize that I deserve a healthier relationship; and I know that the majority of people will tell me to cut my losses and run away, but... .I just don't give up on something this meaningful without trying my hardest.

For privacy I will call him "Steve". Steve has not been diagnosed with BPD, but he also refuses to see a psychiatrist. Although I cannot diagnose Steve myself, I can see that there are many, many BPD traits about him.

Steve and I began dating after meeting in work environment. We do not work together; it was only a training day. Without getting too detailed, Steve is a healthcare provider. I was single, and he was a year out from a broken 2nd marriage. The marriage was in his words a mistake, and was also a rebound relationship. Over the years, he has told me that he loved his first wife very much, and that she had left him suddenly - leaving a Dear John letter - for another man. In recent months he has told me that his first wife was a serial cheater, and that she would come home with semen in her underwear from other men (he said he did the laundry.)

His second wife, he says, was also a cheater who brought home venereal diseases. He also has shared that she was sexually adventurous, and that she demanded an adventurous/fantasy sex life.

Steve and I have had a troubled relationship throughout these four years. ALWAYS our breakups are the result of him dumping me. In the beginning it was because I wasn't a vegetarian; later it was because he thought I was too heavy, and sometimes it was because he thought I was "too immature or childish" to be in a relationship with. Generally these breakups would occur just prior to a holiday or birthday. One particularly difficult breakup was just before (and lasted until a month after) my father's death. These breakups almost always follow a pattern of accusations (real or perceived), attack to my character, and finally utter silence.

Because of my own issues, I grieve very deeply during these separations, and when the silence is over I bask in the relief of his love. When things are good he is the sweetest, most attentive, caring, wonderful partner I could wish for.

In the last year, things have changed. We started living together. I have my own house, but he wanted me to live in his rented house. We became very close and intimate. We decided to try for a baby (both of us are childless) and conceived immediately. Unfortunately, the second sonogram showed that we had lost the baby. We were both devastated, but vowed to keep trying.

He has kicked me out three times in the last six months. The first two were only for days, but this one has been two months. He says he "knows" that I have been unfaithful to him. He knows that I have repeatedly brought home STDs, and that all I do is lie, lie, lie to him. He says I am a chronic and pathological liar. That while we have been trying to conceive, I have been "filling up on the semen of other men". That I have always been promiscuous, and he knew that, but he loved me so much he was willing to overlook it... .as long as I don't lie about who I'm sleeping with. He has repeatedly compared me to Margo Tenenbaum in The Royal Tenenbaums.  If you're not familiar, here's a clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFag_IV27Nc

Aside from an occasional cigarette, there is zero comparison.

I have been utterly and completely faithful to him since we met. Before Steve, my sexually history was extremely benign. I have never had an STD in my life.

Something else that has popped up in this year of his accusations of fidelity: Steve works with a woman (not pretty, nor would I consider her attractive) who has tried repeatedly to have sex with him. He told me about her. I'll call her Barb. Barb is married, and has a young son. According to Steve, he scolded Barb for suggesting they have sex, told her he was in a relationship with me, and that she should be faithful to her marriage. Barb said that her husband, "Jim" knows all about her extra-marital sex, and that he's fine with it because it spiced up their relationship. She suggested that Steve and I join her and Jim.

Steve became quickly obsessed with the idea that he could satisfy my carnal urges by indulging my need to have sex with other men. He figured that he could monitor the event, see me be satisfied, and feel at peace because I was doing it with his full knowledge and consent... .hence, not lies, and everything above board. He even ordered Viagra in case he needed it for Barb in case that was part of the package.

Steve pushed the issue so much that I agreed to meet them in a public place for supper. I cried the whole way there. I agreed to meet them a second time in a public place because Steve pointed out that just seeing me take a swig of beer out of the same mug that another man's lips touched, aroused him. After that, I became scared that Barb and Jim would want to take things further, so I put the brakes on, and said I found them both repugnant and wanted nothing more to do with them.

Our sex life became non-existent unless it was my fertile period. Steve would dryly joke that his only opportunity to sleep with me was when I was ovulating. In reality, I initiated sex fairly often, but was repeatedly rejected... .unless I was ovulating. I do not know if this is related to anything, or not.

I do not think he has been cheating, but I don't really know for sure. He works far from home, and is called out case by case on a work phone. He is not making these call-outs up. I can't explain without revealing too much, but I know absolutely that his job cases are legitimate. Steve is a major introvert (this is one thing that goes against BPD) and has a very low self-esteem. He is very attractive, and intelligent. Another thing, he proposed about six months ago, and then again, and even took me ring shopping saying he was ready to buy on the spot. I WANT to marry him. I love him so very much. But I don't want an instant divorce. I told him that I would like to get engaged, and that we should see a therapist before getting married. Somehow he took this as me wriggling out of a committed relationship.

I'm trying to think of anything that might flesh out a picture of our relationship. Steve is obsessed with genealogy. He was adopted as an infant, but has had absolutely no contact with his adoptive parents or siblings in at least a dozen years. He won't talk about details, but has said that they shouldn't have been parents, and that they were very emotionally abusive to him. Both of his adoptive siblings had drug addictions. Steve does no drugs, and does not drink. In fact, he's very prudish about those things. Through a genealogical search, Steve was able to find his birth mother, birth father, and four or five half-siblings. Because of various issues with each one of them, he does not keep contact.

I have a tight, but small family. Steve knows them all, and is well-liked by my family. The only thing they don't like is that he runs away so often... .leaving me heartbroken. All of them are welcoming and cordial to him. He has never expressed any dislike for any of my family members - only jealousy that he didn't have that family.

One last thing. Steve is not communicating at all with me. Naturally, I am blocked from all social media with him. He has a LOT of my belongings. TV, computer, printer, sewing machine, books, clothes, all of my kitchen stuff. He also has my bird. The day I left I took my dog, and my most necessary items to defuse the situation. He immediately changed the locks and stopped communication. If you're wondering what brought that situation on, here it is: I was in my fertile few days. Steve and I had sex once, but he was too tired the next night and morning. He worked the next two days, and I spent those days at the hospital with a dear friend of my family's who had fallen and broken her hip. She and her husband are both 82. Steve believes that I spent those days screwing whomever I could to get pregnant since he didn't want to have sex that night before. He said if I became pregnant he'd need a paternity test to know if it was his. He said I probably wouldn't get pregnant anyway because my fallopian tubes were clogged up with venereal disease.

With that, I left.

I have offered to take a polygraph test. I have begged to see a couples' therapist.

He responds to nothing.

Obviously, this isn't over. At the very least he has my belongings, and my pet. Even if I decided to walk away from it all, he must know I won't walk away from my bird.

I guess what I really want is not advice on how I should move forward. I am an adult, and I need to make my own decision about that. What I want is to understand what is possibly going through his head. I want to understand why he is feeling this way. I want to reach him. I want to find a way to handle things so that he knows I'm faithful to him, and that I'm not going to lie to him, or take advantage of him.

How do I do that? I feel that he is waiting there silent... .just waiting for me to confess to my transgressions and ask forgiveness, and that if I did that, he could forgive me and we could move forward. But I cannot do that. I won't do that.

Please, does anyone out there understand his feelings and actions? Can anyone shed some insight, and explain them to me?

Gratefully,

Hark

P.S. Steve has never been physically violent with me. He is emotionally and sometimes verbally abusive, but never physically violent.

[hark]

Hello,

This is my first post. I have not sought the help of a therapist yet.

I have been very deeply in love, for the last four years, with a man whom I have an intense and troubled relationship with. He is 47, and I have just turned 42. We have been "broken up" for two months now, but there are many loose ends.

First, I want to be clear that I know that the prognosis for our relationship is small; I realize that I deserve a healthier relationship; and I know that the majority of people will tell me to cut my losses and run away, but... .I just don't give up on something this meaningful without trying my hardest.

For privacy I will call him "Steve". Steve has not been diagnosed with BPD, but he also refuses to see a psychiatrist. Although I cannot diagnose Steve myself, I can see that there are many, many BPD traits about him.

Steve and I began dating after meeting in work environment. We do not work together; it was only a training day. Without getting too detailed, Steve is a healthcare provider. I was single, and he was a year out from a broken 2nd marriage. The marriage was in his words a mistake, and was also a rebound relationship. Over the years, he has told me that he loved his first wife very much, and that she had left him suddenly - leaving a Dear John letter - for another man. In recent months he has told me that his first wife was a serial cheater, and that she would come home with semen in her underwear from other men (he said he did the laundry.)

His second wife, he says, was also a cheater who brought home venereal diseases. He also has shared that she was sexually adventurous, and that she demanded an adventurous/fantasy sex life.

Steve and I have had a troubled relationship throughout these four years. ALWAYS our breakups are the result of him dumping me. In the beginning it was because I wasn't a vegetarian; later it was because he thought I was too heavy, and sometimes it was because he thought I was "too immature or childish" to be in a relationship with. Generally these breakups would occur just prior to a holiday or birthday. One particularly difficult breakup was just before (and lasted until a month after) my father's death. These breakups almost always follow a pattern of accusations (real or perceived), attack to my character, and finally utter silence.

Because of my own issues, I grieve very deeply during these separations, and when the silence is over I bask in the relief of his love. When things are good he is the sweetest, most attentive, caring, wonderful partner I could wish for.

In the last year, things have changed. We started living together. I have my own house, but he wanted me to live in his rented house. We became very close and intimate. We decided to try for a baby (both of us are childless) and conceived immediately. Unfortunately, the second sonogram showed that we had lost the baby. We were both devastated, but vowed to keep trying.

He has kicked me out three times in the last six months. The first two were only for days, but this one has been two months. He says he "knows" that I have been unfaithful to him. He knows that I have repeatedly brought home STDs, and that all I do is lie, lie, lie to him. He says I am a chronic and pathological liar. That while we have been trying to conceive, I have been "filling up on the semen of other men". That I have always been promiscuous, and he knew that, but he loved me so much he was willing to overlook it... .as long as I don't lie about who I'm sleeping with. He has repeatedly compared me to Margo Tenenbaum in The Royal Tenenbaums.  If you're not familiar, here's a clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFag_IV27Nc

Aside from an occasional cigarette, there is zero comparison.

I have been utterly and completely faithful to him since we met. Before Steve, my sexually history was extremely benign. I have never had an STD in my life.

Something else that has popped up in this year of his accusations of fidelity: Steve works with a woman (not pretty, nor would I consider her attractive) who has tried repeatedly to have sex with him. He told me about her. I'll call her Barb. Barb is married, and has a young son. According to Steve, he scolded Barb for suggesting they have sex, told her he was in a relationship with me, and that she should be faithful to her marriage. Barb said that her husband, "Jim" knows all about her extra-marital sex, and that he's fine with it because it spiced up their relationship. She suggested that Steve and I join her and Jim.

Steve became quickly obsessed with the idea that he could satisfy my carnal urges by indulging my need to have sex with other men. He figured that he could monitor the event, see me be satisfied, and feel at peace because I was doing it with his full knowledge and consent... .hence, not lies, and everything above board. He even ordered Viagra in case he needed it for Barb in case that was part of the package.

Steve pushed the issue so much that I agreed to meet them in a public place for supper. I cried the whole way there. I agreed to meet them a second time in a public place because Steve pointed out that just seeing me take a swig of beer out of the same mug that another man's lips touched, aroused him. After that, I became scared that Barb and Jim would want to take things further, so I put the brakes on, and said I found them both repugnant and wanted nothing more to do with them.

Our sex life became non-existent unless it was my fertile period. Steve would dryly joke that his only opportunity to sleep with me was when I was ovulating. In reality, I initiated sex fairly often, but was repeatedly rejected... .unless I was ovulating. I do not know if this is related to anything, or not.

I do not think he has been cheating, but I don't really know for sure. He works far from home, and is called out case by case on a work phone. He is not making these call-outs up. I can't explain without revealing too much, but I know absolutely that his job cases are legitimate. Steve is a major introvert (this is one thing that goes against BPD) and has a very low self-esteem. He is very attractive, and intelligent. Another thing, he proposed about six months ago, and then again, and even took me ring shopping saying he was ready to buy on the spot. I WANT to marry him. I love him so very much. But I don't want an instant divorce. I told him that I would like to get engaged, and that we should see a therapist before getting married. Somehow he took this as me wriggling out of a committed relationship.

I'm trying to think of anything that might flesh out a picture of our relationship. Steve is obsessed with genealogy. He was adopted as an infant, but has had absolutely no contact with his adoptive parents or siblings in at least a dozen years. He won't talk about details, but has said that they shouldn't have been parents, and that they were very emotionally abusive to him. Both of his adoptive siblings had drug addictions. Steve does no drugs, and does not drink. In fact, he's very prudish about those things. Through a genealogical search, Steve was able to find his birth mother, birth father, and four or five half-siblings. Because of various issues with each one of them, he does not keep contact.

I have a tight, but small family. Steve knows them all, and is well-liked by my family. The only thing they don't like is that he runs away so often... .leaving me heartbroken. All of them are welcoming and cordial to him. He has never expressed any dislike for any of my family members - only jealousy that he didn't have that family.

One last thing. Steve is not communicating at all with me. Naturally, I am blocked from all social media with him. He has a LOT of my belongings. TV, computer, printer, sewing machine, books, clothes, all of my kitchen stuff. He also has my bird. The day I left I took my dog, and my most necessary items to defuse the situation. He immediately changed the locks and stopped communication. If you're wondering what brought that situation on, here it is: I was in my fertile few days. Steve and I had sex once, but he was too tired the next night and morning. He worked the next two days, and I spent those days at the hospital with a dear friend of my family's who had fallen and broken her hip. She and her husband are both 82. Steve believes that I spent those days screwing whomever I could to get pregnant since he didn't want to have sex that night before. He said if I became pregnant he'd need a paternity test to know if it was his. He said I probably wouldn't get pregnant anyway because my fallopian tubes were clogged up with venereal disease.

With that, I left.

I have offered to take a polygraph test. I have begged to see a couples' therapist.

He responds to nothing.

Obviously, this isn't over. At the very least he has my belongings, and my pet. Even if I decided to walk away from it all, he must know I won't walk away from my bird.

I guess what I really want is not advice on how I should move forward. I am an adult, and I need to make my own decision about that. What I want is to understand what is possibly going through his head. I want to understand why he is feeling this way. I want to reach him. I want to find a way to handle things so that he knows I'm faithful to him, and that I'm not going to lie to him, or take advantage of him.

How do I do that? I feel that he is waiting there silent... .just waiting for me to confess to my transgressions and ask forgiveness, and that if I did that, he could forgive me and we could move forward. But I cannot do that. I won't do that.

Please, does anyone out there understand his feelings and actions? Can anyone shed some insight, and explain them to me?

Gratefully,

Hark

P.S. Steve has never been physically violent with me. He is emotionally and sometimes verbally abusive, but never physically violent.

[Mutt]

 

I'm sorry to hear about how difficult and confusing it is with your bf and your loss.

Steve is not communicating at all with me. Naturally, I am blocked from all social media with him. He has a LOT of my belongings. TV, computer, printer, sewing machine, books, clothes, all of my kitchen stuff. He also has my bird. The day I left I took my dog, and my most necessary items to defuse the situation.

A pwBPD have difficulties seeing the grey areas in life including people. They see the world in black and white - you are undervalued or overvalued. It is a primitive defense mechanism triggered by stress and anxiety - it's called splitting. He's blocked you out because you are split black - he sees your actions or communications with him as all bad. If you spoke to him since being split black - he has nothing good to say about you. Have you heard anything from him?

Here's a good article on splitting hark: BPD BEHAVIORS: Splitting   

I have offered to take a polygraph test.

It's a good idea and it will prove that you are telling the truth. It's logical and it's fact but not necessarily true to a pwBPD. BPD is a mental illness and he registers reality differently than you or I. He will change his reality. This explains dissociation best.

If the feelings of the BPD do not match the situation or reality, the BPD will alter the situation/reality to the point it does match.  They do this because they do not want to be confronted with their out-of-place feelings.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=68392.0

[hark]

Thank you, Mutt.

Reading this message board, and knowing that other people are dealing with similar situations is helping to ease the isolation of dealing with this disease.

I definitely feel the splitting. In retrospect, I can see how he's done that with most of the close relationships in his life. He has done it many times before with me, but it's never been this severe. This is the worst it has been with what he currently believes of me. It feels like he thinks I'm the filthiest, lying, cheating whore who has done nothing but ruin his life.

I have to say that there is one component to this that may me hurtful, but it's very liberating. In the past, Steve's splitting me black involved vague things that I COULD apply to myself. I don't know if I can make myself clear or not. In the past, the issues would be things like he thought I was irresponsible (for not pursuing a job or school that he wanted for me), or childish (spending too much time with my family), or even weight related issues (I've struggled with weight my whole life - he would prefer me to have an "athletic build". The first time he split me black was because I was not vegetarian. This was four months into our relationship, and I knew he had not eaten meat for most of his life, but he had never discussed it with me, and even deferred the conversation when I would ask him about it. He dumped me on Valentines Day because he couldn't be with someone who was so "cognitively dissonant".

All of those previous splitting episodes really caused damage to my self-esteem because I could apply them to myself and take them personally. Maybe he saw these negative traits in me that I overlooked in myself. Do you understand?

This time, although I am utterly crushed emotionally, is different. This is the first time that his splitting can't be applied at all. I feel terrible that he THINKS these things about me, but the truth is absolute this time.

This situation has also solidified my knowing that Steve has a mental illness, that it's NOT me, and it's not my fault. I will probably never know for sure that it's BPD, but it seems like that.

Sometimes, when I'm feeling all that guilt and regret because I'm missing him so much, and I'm so broken, I have to remind myself, "No, you didn't cheat on him, you didn't lie to him, it is a problem in his head."

Something about that is freeing, if that makes sense.

I have suggested several times the polygraph test - even offering to pay for it. I suggested that he choose the testing site, tester, choose the questions, etc. Whatever it would take to help him know that I hadn't rigged it. My only request was that it be a legitimate polygraph test, by a reputable institution and a certified technician. He thinks it's nonsense, and mentioned that a "pathological liar" would have no problem passing a lie detector.

Steve hasn't responded to any communication in a little over a month. I have emailed and texted him over that time (the last time about a week ago) with no response. My communications have been short. Just asking if my bird is ok, asking if the cats are ok, asking if I can have my bird and some of my belongings back. No answer. I also dropped off several bags of food for the animals at a time he wasn't there. (left it on his stoop without a note). My bird is in need of a larger cage, and I've bought one. I was hoping to transition her to this larger cage when I got her back, but I will probably drop the cage off at Steve's place this week. It's been two moths and I don't think it's fair for the bird to do without. I will drop the cage off when he is not there.

I've noticed some behaviors from myself in these two months that I'm embarrassed of, but I haven't been able to control them. First, I'm excessively worried about Steve's mental health. The very real possibility that he could give up and kill himself is terrifying to me. That, combined with the knowledge that he has NO support system, he has no one to turn to, and no one would miss him for I don't know how long. Honestly, he could be dead for weeks before anyone would notice. I'm so scared of that. So, so, scared.

I drive by his house daily just to make sure his truck is moving. If his truck doesn't move for a couple of days, or if it is gone for a couple of days, I start to panic. Last night after hearing of Robin Williams, I was beside myself with worrying about Steve. I'm so scared that something bad will happen to him. I know it's not my job, and I know I can't rescue or save him from himself, and I know there's nothing I can do about it.

I KNOW all these things, but he is just so off his rocker right now, and it has me feeling terrified and helpless.

[Mutt]

I'm sorry he critisized you.

"cognitively dissonant"

He projected his cognitive dissonance. Were you feeling conflict? He may of projected conflicted beliefs on you.

In psychology, cognitive dissonance is the discomfort experienced when simultaneously holding two or more conflicting cognitions: ideas, beliefs, values or emotional reactions. In a state of dissonance, people may sometimes feel "disequilibrium": frustration, hunger, dread, guilt, anger, embarrassment, anxiety, etc. [1]

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=208270.0

All of those previous splitting episodes really caused damage to my self-esteem because I could apply them to myself and take them personally. Maybe he saw these negative traits in me that I overlooked in myself. Do you understand?

I understand what you mean. I doubted all of my qualities with my ex due to her FOG. At the end of the relationship I realized that what she was saying was the opposite.

"Mutt you don't care, you don't listen, you're selfish"

I'm not the horrible man or insensitive etc.

feel terrible that he THINKS these things about me, but the truth is absolute this time.

Not being able to see someone's good and qualities at the same time is his issue. Your not all bad for however long he has you split in his mind. If you try to approach him in a kind or caring manner it's not reciprocate and he will say pick at you for something.

I will probably never know for sure that it's BPD, but it seems like that.

My ex is not diagnosed. I can make the choice in what I accept for behaviors directed at me from people. It's setting a boundary on myself and not my ex. If she does X I will react with Y. I look at the negative personality traits and I don't look at the diagnosis. Only a professional can do that. If someone changes reality often, it's a signs of mental illness.

I understand that you're worried about him and Robin Williams passing affected me as it did many people. Mental heatlh is serious.

TOOLS: Dealing with threats of Suicide and Suicide Attempts

Are you worried about getting your things back?

[hark]

Yes, I am worried about getting my things back, and I'm worried about getting my bird back. I have only asked their return thus far instead of pushing or threatening to bring the police in. I suspect that his reasons for keeping my things is that he is conflicted about me within himself. I don't think he wants to let go. As long as he has my bird and my belongings he knows it isn't really over. I won't abandon my bird... .he knows that. I believe it is his way of controlling the situation, as well as controlling and punishing me.

I haven't pushed it because I am WORRIED about him and what the outcome would be regarding self-harm.

In our previous two breakups (which lasted only days) I left in a similar manner - taking my dog and a bag of clothes and leaving only to defuse the situation. Both of those times he was near-frantic to get my things out now now now. His plan last time was to drop everything on my doorstep (including bird). He asked that I not be there, and that he would text as soon as he was driving away. We made up before it happened.

This time it's radio silent. Absolutely no response to my repeated inquiries to when and how I can retrieve my things.

I'm I correct in thinking this way? Any advise?

[Mutt]

You want your things back. I'm sorry but your split black - that's your radio silence. He won't negotiate or be emotionally mature about this. Call the cops and get your things and animal out.

If you suspect that he is going to be suicidal call your local emergency services. They are professionals. They are trained and it's not for you to take it on your own. Get involved with a suicide prevention agency. The link is at the bottom.

How To Be Helpful to Someone Who Is Threatening Suicide

•Be direct. Talk openly and matter-of-factly about suicide.

•Be willing to listen. Allow expressions of feelings. Accept the feelings.

•Be non-judgmental. Don't debate whether suicide is right or wrong, or whether feelings are good or bad. Don't lecture on the value of life.

•Get involved. Become available. Show interest and support.

•Don't dare him or her to do it.

•Don't act shocked. This will put distance between you.

•Don't be sworn to secrecy. Seek support.

•Offer hope that alternatives are available but do not offer glib reassurance.

•Take action. Remove means, such as guns or stockpiled pills.

•Get help from persons or agencies specializing in crisis intervention and suicide prevention.

www.suicidepreventionlifeline.org