Ask, not Tell. The antidote to engulfment?

[ziniztar]

Had some training at work that had a very simple division between people that Ask and people that Tell. My T advised me to be more autonomous without taking my dBPDbf's autonomy, by laying down what I want and asking him to work with that. And then I thought of my older brother that I can feel engulfed by at times when he's trying to pull me back into the family (dynamics).

I was thinking: when do I react well to my brother because I feel like he's genuinely interested and I feel connected, and when do I feel smothered?

Brother sent text "Have a nice weekend sis! Love, bro." Annoyed the hell out of me. Why does he do this? Why is he thinking of me? What is he trying to accomplish? He doesn't know what my life is like and whether my weekend will be nice. Mind your own business!

If brother would send "How are you doing today?" or "Hey Sis, got plans for the weekend?" I'd feel good.

Would brother text "Hey! Got three options, which one do you wanna do on Sunday?" I would feel annoyed again.

All seemingly nice texts with a very different outcome. And then I connected the dots to the autonomy/ask vs tell others thing. I texted bf a question a few times, without adding more info. Result: he answers, sometimes takes a few minutes, but then usually even asks a question in return! :O

I always thought that un-enmeshment would mean I would have to lay superlow in contact and basically always wait for him to initiate it. Now I see: that is adapting to his behaviour again. Asking him, and expecting (!) the same question back is manipulative, and if I wait for it before I tell about my day, that is adapting to his behaviour AGAIN.

Long story short... genuinely asking about someone else's life, thoughts, activity... without asking it back, could actually result in more intimacy.

Thoughts?

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[takingandsending]

ziniztar,

[sweetheart]

Hi ziniztar your post brought to mind a concept created by a humanist psychologist Carl Rogers called 'unconditional positive regard.' What you outline in your post is that in giving yourself permission to ask your bf about himself with questions that are honest, supportive and importantly what you would like to know, will indeed, in my opinion create a greater possibility for intimacy. Your continued acceptance of him as a person struggling with this disorder demonstrates compassion and understanding that will probably have been absent for many of his relationships.

Emotional disengagement from someone you love does not have to mean emotional disconnection, for me it means you have more of yourself and are clearer about your needs and wants and desires.

I remember reading a post some months ago about someone's dilemma about wanting to go for a coffee with their pwBPD who had withdrawn from them; the reply that made me laugh in its simplicity was the one that said, just ask them then, say you are going for a coffee, would they like to come and leave it at that.

[takingandsending]

Try again. I am cell phone challenged.

Long story short... genuinely asking about someone else's life, thoughts, activity... without asking it back, could actually result in more intimacy.

Genuine empathy can result in more intimate connection - yes. Living without expectation or need to receive genuine empathy - not so much. We all have a great deal of previous history in most of our communications, which extend into our past and carry forward into the present. Being aware of the specific histories allows us to be more honest in our communications, both with ourselves and others, which I think is getting the popular term of genuine or authentic nowadays. In essence, help yourself to meet your own needs without sneaking them on to someone else through indirect communication. But I fear that I would be setting myself up for further enabling if I did so with expectation that intimacy would result.

So, do this for yourself because it makes sense to you and is self-healing and recognize that intimacy is out of your control - it requires a receptive partner.

[ziniztar]

So, do this for yourself because it makes sense to you and is self-healing and recognize that intimacy is out of your control - it requires a receptive partner.

I see what you are saying. I think that not expecting anything from him anymore, and not being reactive and dependent on his behavior is the real reason behind. Anything else, is supplementary. 

[vortex of confusion]

Long story short... genuinely asking about someone else's life, thoughts, activity... without asking it back, could actually result in more intimacy.

Thoughts?

I think it depends on the dynamic between the individuals involved. When dealing with my husband, it seems that he expects me to ask about his day. There are times when I genuinely want to know but there are other times when the last thing I want to do is ask him about his day or anything else for that matter because I know that once he starts talking who knows where it will go.

Depending on which side of things you are on, not asking it back is part of the engulfment. I am thinking about how there are times when my husband will ask "how was your day?" in response to me asking a similar question. I know to keep things as brief as possible because he has a knack for turning the conversation back on himself. I need to give myself permission to NOT ask and NOT reply.

I sometimes think that it doesn't really matter how it goes. If there isn't positive regard, then it becomes difficult to navigate the situation. I was thinking about how I can get upset if my husband will say something to me but my best friend can say almost the same thing and it won't bother me. With my best friend, she is being genuine and I feel that she has positive regard towards me. I trust that she is not trying to manipulate me or get me to think or feel like she does. With my husband, I don't have that same level of trust.

Also, as far as engulfment goes, sometimes, the sheer number of questions and interactions can send the non verbal messages that lead to feeling very engulfed. That is something that I have had to work on with my husband. For a while, he was calling and emailing and instant messaging all the time. If I didn't respond right away, he would get upset. Today, I had an email from him that I didn't see. He called a couple of times at lunch. I don't think he has caught me on IM yet though. When we were dating umpteen years ago, having him call just to hear my voice was kind of cute. Now, it feels very engulfing because I am trying to do things around the house and take care of the kids.

[takingandsending]

[quote author=ziniztar

I see what you are saying. I think that not expecting anything from him anymore, and not being reactive and dependent on his behavior is the real reason behind. Anything else, is supplementary.  [/quote]
  That's it.