I tell myself "the man I used to love is dead"

[tim_tom]

Yuck! Is that all we are? A dusty old headless dolly under the couch?

Only if we choose to be, unlike a childs toy, we can get up, dust ourselves off, go outside and live.

Understanding that what happened to us in our ex's nature helps to let go, and accept. Accept them, accept the relationship for what it was; transitory

[Tiepje3]

It felt a relief somehow to read these posts.  Many completely echo my own feelings. I used to say about my uBPDexbf that "the person I knew had gone away to a place where I couldn't reach him".  And how desperately I tried to coax him out of that place again, with reassurance of my commitment, expressions of love and support, etc. etc.  So painful and so confusing - I'd never experienced anything like it with any other person.

After our breakup, I said to my exbf once "It would have been a lot easier if you had died".  Harsh, bitter, or strange maybe.  But I think in all honesty, I would have found it a lot easier to cope with a straightforward physical bereavement than with this inexplicable change and withdrawal.

It's harder when there isn't a change in his persona in the rest of his relationships, e.g. work, because he is high-functioning and the disorder really plays itself out mostly in romantic relationships.  Other people still see and know exactly the same person, so it can make me feel like I'm going crazy sometimes, like I'm a fraud, the one who has maybe just got it all wrong ... .

WOW Pets, this could by my posting, every word of it. Especially the last part where I feel like going crazy, like I'm the fraud. It is so hard to see him still functioning at work or with mutual friends (who don't want to chose between him or me, because he's such a nice guy... .NOT!).

But I'm deciding he's 'dead', because I'm going through all the stages of grieving that come when losing a loved one, especially since there is no closure with my uBPDstbxh.

I've had the initial shock, I've had the anger and now I'm just plain sad, sad, sad.

But after this comes 'acceptance'... .just not right now.

[Caredverymuch]

It felt a relief somehow to read these posts.  Many completely echo my own feelings. I used to say about my uBPDexbf that "the person I knew had gone away to a place where I couldn't reach him".  And how desperately I tried to coax him out of that place again, with reassurance of my commitment, expressions of love and support, etc. etc.  So painful and so confusing - I'd never experienced anything like it with any other person.

After our breakup, I said to my exbf once "It would have been a lot easier if you had died".  Harsh, bitter, or strange maybe.  But I think in all honesty, I would have found it a lot easier to cope with a straightforward physical bereavement than with this inexplicable change and withdrawal.

It's harder when there isn't a change in his persona in the rest of his relationships, e.g. work, because he is high-functioning and the disorder really plays itself out mostly in romantic relationships.  Other people still see and know exactly the same person, so it can make me feel like I'm going crazy sometimes, like I'm a fraud, the one who has maybe just got it all wrong ... .

I agree with all of this Pets. Exactly my story as well.

[Loveofhislife]

It's not a choice though, it's their nature. If we think of the BPD as a fickle 5 year old, and many say they suffer from emotional arrest, we can see the behaviors mimic'd on a micro scale[/quote]
Probably one of the most fundamental disagreements I have is "it's not a choice." Earlier in the thread, BPD was called a "serious mental illness"--not meaning to be esoteric, but that term is used to describe biologically-based mental illnesses: bipolar and schizophrenia, primarily. If pwBPD have no "choice," how is it they can turn it on and off depending on who they're with? Seems as if this gives them some level of control over their compulsions. My exbfBPD was high functioning, and I saw him plan and strategize to have his "needs" met. As for the 5 year old with the dolly; I was taught respect and discipline for my belongings and would not have received a new dolly after tearing up and discarding my old one. My dog, on the other hand might have torn the dolly up without knowing any better. Somewhere in this discussion, I believe is a need to not only hold ourselves accountable but pwBPD as well.

[myself]

Probably one of the most fundamental disagreements I have is "it's not a choice."

Me too. They've repeated their patterns over and over again, have seen and been told how much they hurt others, have many chances and options to find real help for themselves, etc., but choose to continue. Hard-wired or not, life could be better than they follow through with. That's the real shame.

[tim_tom]

Probably one of the most fundamental disagreements I have is "it's not a choice." Earlier in the thread, BPD was called a "serious mental illness"--not meaning to be esoteric, but that term is used to describe biologically-based mental illnesses: bipolar and schizophrenia, primarily. If pwBPD have no "choice," how is it they can turn it on and off depending on who they're with? Seems as if this gives them some level of control over their compulsions. My exbfBPD was high functioning, and I saw him plan and strategize to have his "needs" met. As for the 5 year old with the dolly; I was taught respect and discipline for my belongings and would not have received a new dolly after tearing up and discarding my old one. My dog, on the other hand might have torn the dolly up without knowing any better. Somewhere in this discussion, I believe is a need to not only hold ourselves accountable but pwBPD as well.

That's fair, but they repeat the same patterns over and over. There clearly is something wrong that they are not in control of.

As you said, I think we all need to find harmony with this by any means possible. I choose to see them as a wounded soul, unable to function properly in a relationship. That is sad, there life will likely be filled with heartache masked by antisocial behavior.

[Indyan]

Probably one of the most fundamental disagreements I have is "it's not a choice." Earlier in the thread, BPD was called a "serious mental illness"--not meaning to be esoteric, but that term is used to describe biologically-based mental illnesses: bipolar and schizophrenia, primarily. If pwBPD have no "choice," how is it they can turn it on and off depending on who they're with?

I don't fully agree here (again sorry), at least w/r to my BPDbf.

First, there is some level of controversy regarding the biological aspect of the disorder, and some doctors do believe there is something wrong with their brains - hence the hereditary trend.

Regarding my bf, he doesn't control himself well with other people either in fact.

He had problems at work a few months ago (he phoned me and I managed to calm him down, he said he was shaking out of tension and about to send everybody packing), he had a terrible fight with his mother in the summer (he broke things in her kitchen during a rage fit and injurded his hand) - and finally, he tried to behave himself the only time my parents saw him in the summer but couldn't hide the fact that he was "abnormally" stressed, kept shaking his legs, smoking loads etc.

[crookedeuphoria]

I think they struggle with everybody but manage to hide it a lot better when they are dealing with people on a superficial level.

[Loveofhislife]

And to chronicle the obvious, there is no single model of BPD that replicates. Some have co-occurring mental illnesses and addictions. Some are higher or lower functioning. Some are the product of genetics, poor parenting, abuse, head injury or all of the above. I'm reasonably certain my exbfBPD had PTSD, NPD, ASPD, and was neglected as an infant and abused by an alcoholic father. Their stories are different as are ours. That does NOT give them license to abuse others nor should it give us license to allow ourselves to be abused--by anyone! Mourning the dead who can no longer abuse us but who we love and miss so terribly seems like a great idea to me, Indyan. I did it before: I was caregiver and guardian and eulogizer for a man who had psychologically abused me before: my father. I grieve his death and miss him still.

[tim_tom]

I think they struggle with everybody but manage to hide it a lot better when they are dealing with people on a superficial level.

Yep... My ex would be very sensitve to anyone not liking her. And obsess about it. No matter how small a part the played in her life.

She eventually projected that to me and tell me all the people that didn't like me. I miss that ,

[crookedeuphoria]

Yep. Mine wanted EVERYBODY to like him. Didn't matter if he liked them or not.

[Pets]

They have painted us black and there is no turning back from that. It is the illness - I don't believe they have much free will over it. Their own fears take over and they respond the way they do.

That illness takes over all their relationships. We need to mourn what we wanted to have, what we thought we had for a while, but that fantasy is gone. So sad

Yeah, I think you're right about the fact that fear or the illness takes over and ruins the relationship.  My uBPDexbf never really painted me black as such.  He said that he thought I was a wonderful person when he ended the relationship, but that negative feelings were pushing against the strong positive feelings he had had for me in the beginning.  He said he was really upset and confused by this process himself; he wanted to stop it from happening, but couldn't. 

Which just made it more tragic in my eyes.

It was his fantasy and mine that we wanted to come true.  But I think there was also a small seed of love between us in there that maybe could have grown if he had decided to get help, like he said he would.

Sadly the fear of that was also far too great.  Denial and avoidance is easier.  My ex said himself that it probably was a "retreat to the familiar".

The truth is they are not the person we so want them to be, we want them to be this loving, wonderful person we fell for but they are a person with a serious mental illness. That illness takes over all their relationships. We need to mourn what we wanted to have, what we thought we had for a while, but that fantasy is gone. So sad [/quote]

[Pets]

I think they struggle with everybody but manage to hide it a lot better when they are dealing with people on a superficial level.

I agree with that.  The closer you get to them, the more intimate, the more you get to see.