My uBPDx Now Seems uuBPDx

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

6 year r/s ended with me avoiding/detaching, the resulting emotional neglect prompting her to cheat, the one thing she was always adamant about hating due to her father being a serial cheater. Four months of she all but throwing the juvenile r/s (literally, the guy is young enough to be my son) in my face ended when she moved out in February.

Other than a few incidents (which involved her with the kids), we get along as co/parallel parents. I dropped D2 off at her place today due to a daycare change this week. D2's mom came out looking very healthy and happy, dressed nicely in her business attire, hair grown long. She kept it short the whole time she was with me, and it was long when I met her--- I found a self-image reference to this behavior which she had written in her journal, that she changes her hair to reflect her feelings, and the change is something she can always control unlike her feelings.

I should be happy things are calm, and that her BPD traits are in remission. I would pick up on it even with LCPC (limited co-parent contact). Other than some late night object constancy texts a few weeks ago, "How are the kids, sorry!" I don't sense anything amiss. Of course, her diagnosed depression still lurks. It was triggered two months ago by an inappropriate anger incident with S4 such that she called me to talk about it. Other than that, things are going well.

I've realized that my replacement is better for her (something she implied in one of our break up conversations), and that I "failed her." My T boiled it down to "you were a bad match." Thus the Avoidant Rescuer Son of a BPD mother was a bad match for someone with BPD traits, which were very apparent to me even when we were friends before in a r/s. She admitted to me she was messed up inside from the beginning.

So our r/s and two children, as much as the former failed, helped her grow. Was that my role, my only purpose, other than to spawn children for her, which she desperately tried to do with a previous bf? Perhaps I'm attaching too much meaning here.

It helped me grow in a way as well, though I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do with that now other than being a better half time father than a full time father with the kids' mother whom I (or her family) was triggering about every week, the winter depressive episodes aside. I can focus on the kids, rather than having to navigate (mostly unsuccessfully) around their often emotionally charged mother. No more WoE.  In seeing her this morning, I'm not sure if it's her I miss as much as the idea of her. She made an idol out of me in a way (Father Figure), but perhaps I did as well in my Rescuer role, neither of us seeing each other as individuals.

Someone wrote here a few months ago that her T said that such relationships are "need fulfillment traps" rather than reciprocal relations. I knew the r/s would be fraught with struggle from the first few months. I don't think it was as much me entering the "trap" eyes wide shut (her father told me in the beginning, "you can handle her", but that I participated in the construction of said trap, and then entered into it with her willingly. She operates off of an abandonment script. Perhaps I do, too.

[Turkish]

6 year r/s ended with me avoiding/detaching, the resulting emotional neglect prompting her to cheat, the one thing she was always adamant about hating due to her father being a serial cheater. Four months of she all but throwing the juvenile r/s (literally, the guy is young enough to be my son) in my face ended when she moved out in February.

Other than a few incidents (which involved her with the kids), we get along as co/parallel parents. I dropped D2 off at her place today due to a daycare change this week. D2's mom came out looking very healthy and happy, dressed nicely in her business attire, hair grown long. She kept it short the whole time she was with me, and it was long when I met her--- I found a self-image reference to this behavior which she had written in her journal, that she changes her hair to reflect her feelings, and the change is something she can always control unlike her feelings.

I should be happy things are calm, and that her BPD traits are in remission. I would pick up on it even with LCPC (limited co-parent contact). Other than some late night object constancy texts a few weeks ago, "How are the kids, sorry!" I don't sense anything amiss. Of course, her diagnosed depression still lurks. It was triggered two months ago by an inappropriate anger incident with S4 such that she called me to talk about it. Other than that, things are going well.

I've realized that my replacement is better for her (something she implied in one of our break up conversations), and that I "failed her." My T boiled it down to "you were a bad match." Thus the Avoidant Rescuer Son of a BPD mother was a bad match for someone with BPD traits, which were very apparent to me even when we were friends before in a r/s. She admitted to me she was messed up inside from the beginning.

So our r/s and two children, as much as the former failed, helped her grow. Was that my role, my only purpose, other than to spawn children for her, which she desperately tried to do with a previous bf? Perhaps I'm attaching too much meaning here.

It helped me grow in a way as well, though I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do with that now other than being a better half time father than a full time father with the kids' mother whom I (or her family) was triggering about every week, the winter depressive episodes aside. I can focus on the kids, rather than having to navigate (mostly unsuccessfully) around their often emotionally charged mother. No more WoE.  In seeing her this morning, I'm not sure if it's her I miss as much as the idea of her. She made an idol out of me in a way (Father Figure), but perhaps I did as well in my Rescuer role, neither of us seeing each other as individuals.

Someone wrote here a few months ago that her T said that such relationships are "need fulfillment traps" rather than reciprocal relations. I knew the r/s would be fraught with struggle from the first few months. I don't think it was as much me entering the "trap" eyes wide shut (her father told me in the beginning, "you can handle her", but that I participated in the construction of said trap, and then entered into it with her willingly. She operates off of an abandonment script. Perhaps I do, too.

[Blimblam]

The mindset you have right now Turkish seems very sober and one of acceptance. That is good. I often find myself lured into the better or worst logic. Which I find to be a sort of trap for my ego to protect it's self.  It is part of the struggle which is part of the journey.  I often go to that place myself and it hurts.  I no longer thing of it in terms of detaching. Rather de personalizing and forgiveness which is something that seems to defy the thought process.  I knew I loved my ex.  I can convince myself it wasn't personal and I forgive her and try to believe it but somehow it just doesn't seem to satisfy.  What I seek is to know forgiveness.  Forgiveness is freedom.  The thing is to know a thing and believe a thing are very different from one another.

A mantra I discovers that seems to help as a guiding light is as follows

The way out is in.  The way in is out.

[Mutt]

I recall a few times at brief exchanges a few months back.

I understand what you're saying Turk. I recall feeling similar at exchanges when my ex looked good. I could tell she was getting ready to go out with her boyfriend. It really hurt to see her look so good while I was hurt deeply. It felt like she was flaunting it. She was back at her emotional baseline but it still bothered me.

I visualized what I went through behind closed doors, the dissociative rages and terrible fights and what the kids were seeing and hearing. That helped me to re-center myself. It's not something I wish to re-experience with the same woman again. It's tough nonetheless Turk.

[Caredverymuch]

6 year r/s ended with me avoiding/detaching, the resulting emotional neglect prompting her to cheat, the one thing she was always adamant about hating due to her father being a serial cheater. Four months of she all but throwing the juvenile r/s (literally, the guy is young enough to be my son) in my face ended when she moved out in February.

Other than a few incidents (which involved her with the kids), we get along as co/parallel parents. I dropped D2 off at her place today due to a daycare change this week. D2's mom came out looking very healthy and happy, dressed nicely in her business attire, hair grown long. She kept it short the whole time she was with me, and it was long when I met her--- I found a self-image reference to this behavior which she had written in her journal, that she changes her hair to reflect her feelings, and the change is something she can always control unlike her feelings.

I should be happy things are calm, and that her BPD traits are in remission. I would pick up on it even with LCPC (limited co-parent contact). Other than some late night object constancy texts a few weeks ago, "How are the kids, sorry!" I don't sense anything amiss. Of course, her diagnosed depression still lurks. It was triggered two months ago by an inappropriate anger incident with S4 such that she called me to talk about it. Other than that, things are going well.

I've realized that my replacement is better for her (something she implied in one of our break up conversations), and that I "failed her." My T boiled it down to "you were a bad match." Thus the Avoidant Rescuer Son of a BPD mother was a bad match for someone with BPD traits, which were very apparent to me even when we were friends before in a r/s. She admitted to me she was messed up inside from the beginning.

So our r/s and two children, as much as the former failed, helped her grow. Was that my role, my only purpose, other than to spawn children for her, which she desperately tried to do with a previous bf? Perhaps I'm attaching too much meaning here.

It helped me grow in a way as well, though I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do with that now other than being a better half time father than a full time father with the kids' mother whom I (or her family) was triggering about every week, the winter depressive episodes aside. I can focus on the kids, rather than having to navigate (mostly unsuccessfully) around their often emotionally charged mother. No more WoE.  In seeing her this morning, I'm not sure if it's her I miss as much as the idea of her. She made an idol out of me in a way (Father Figure), but perhaps I did as well in my Rescuer role, neither of us seeing each other as individuals.

Someone wrote here a few months ago that her T said that such relationships are "need fulfillment traps" rather than reciprocal relations. I knew the r/s would be fraught with struggle from the first few months. I don't think it was as much me entering the "trap" eyes wide shut (her father told me in the beginning, "you can handle her", but that I participated in the construction of said trap, and then entered into it with her willingly. She operates off of an abandonment script. Perhaps I do, too.

You're very insightful Turkish.  You share much of that here in great ways. Bc of your ability to have insight, you are much farther along than many men in your shoes. In a non stereotypical tone, many would just be out there again.  When and if you should ever chose to do so, you will be what my T calls the emotionally " available" man.  Your work has not been in vain.

I understand how it must feel to see your ex in what you know to be a peaceful place.  Although, a pBPD peaceful place we well know is no where near what we seek. How is her new partner " better" for her? You mentioned that in your post and Im curious how that seems to play out. 

I join you in saying that I feel I've done my inner work to the best of expectation.  I also understand the dynamic that made my r/s with my ex as one that could never been less than a rescuer r/s.  Me being the rescuer of him. 

Now that I understand much, I, too, feel a bit of " now what?"  Am I now just a more insightful compassionate woman with much better boundaries? How do I allow myself to ever be vulnerable again, as a healthy r/s includes a certain ability to safely be just that.  Intimacy is truly that: "in-to-me-see".  Not sure I can go that deep again.

I feel a bit like all this knowledge base I gained from the healing and inner work leaves me sure about much. And a little unsure too.

Im sorry for your present state has you questioning some deep thoughts.  You are most certainly in the right place to do so.  None of this stuff is for the light of heart. Sending 

[myself]

It's a balancing act for all of us. I'm glad she's doing better. It's good for your kids, and one less person who's so out of control in this world. Just because she's leveled off for now, or for awhile, doesn't mean she has it made. It's life. Things are going to happen. Has she been doing in-depth work, making sure her patterns change (the way you admirably have), or just changing her appearance, her living space, her attachments? Good for her if she found some peace, for now. You're going to be tuned into your real self from now on. The negatives you're feeling are because you're comparing yourself to her/to him. How to turn that around is a personal answer you already know. While still detaching while co-parenting. While balancing. Focused on your calm.

[Turkish]

BB: "forgiveness is freedom." I like that   that's a tough one, probably for many here who were horribly abused. I can forgive her for cheating, because right or wrong, I felt I played a part to driving my abandoned child to do it. The signs were there; I ignored and avoided. It's not FOG so much, as an analysis of what I did or didn't do for a person who is terrified of abandonment at her core. She transferred her feelings for her father to me. She told me in so many words.  I gave up wanting to "fix" things on her terms, and this was the result. What I have trouble forgiving is her neglect and abandonment of our children. Still working on that.

Mutt: the emotional baseline is an interesting concept. So, too, is the realization that no matter how our Exes seem now, we shouldn't forget what went on behind closed doors.

CVM: thank you   I've been told over the years in various ways that I was "good with girls" (this exact statement by a woman older than me). The problem may be that I was best with women with issues. Unless the woman is married (safe), I probably project Rescuer too much. I am very honest. I feel i have nothing to hide. Emotionally available? I thought i was before. Real. She told me when we were just friends, "i feel like i can be myself with you." As opposed to what?

The new guy? Much younger. Doesn't have to live with her, doesn't have to raise kids. Still an undergrad at the age I was already 4 years working for a Fortune 500 company (my ex, too, for that matter). Not an adult by my estimation, at least no career or responsibilities. Has the freedom to do what he wants about half the time, though I know she hangs out with him and the kids a lot. She looks younger than her early 30s age. It must be a dream come true for him. He doesn't know the pressure, though, of running a household, dealng with babies, and a woman diagnosed with depression with BPD traits full time. Almost zero commitment. His religious hypocrisy turns my stomach (Matthew 18:6). I get the feeling she wants us to meet. Future bfs, fine. Not him. It might happen at some point, though. I need emotional distance from that and it's hard.

myself: you get to the meat of it. I am glad she's doing better, otherwise it would be like some of the horror stories I read on Legal or Co-Patenting. This is where I struggle emotionally. A friend of mine who never liked my Ex from the first impression--- perceived something off and fake in her words (and she was around to witness my Ex's first meltdown before the kids), said "as long as the new guy treats your kids right, you should be thankful."

Focus on my calm. Good advice. I'll see her tomorrow morning for back to back dentists appointments for the kids. They're on my insurance, but it's her day. I don't really need to be there, but I will be. I still struggle with the fact that she wants to be best buds... .and she wanted this still living with me, carrying on, as if I should just accept everything. I still struggle with being stuck whereas she is not, and hasn't been for a while. Focus on my calm (thanks for that). No more WoE, except perhaps in my mind. Detachment... .freedom. Now what to do with myself in my new reality? Still working on that.

[Blimblam]

The thing about de personalizing it is depersonalizng forgiveness as well.  When it comes to your kids.  This will be incredibly difficult because it is hard wired into your brain to protect them.  So forgiveness is a healing energy. The who's and the what's are a blip on the radar of eternity. What is their are energies like forgiveness, the lost child, the angry child, punitive parent, the detached protector. Seek forgiveness for the punitive parent and angry child to so they will free your own lonely child.  

You your ex even your kids. Don't really exist.  What does exist is the archetypes as energetic beings playing out the same old drama.  Forgiveness is the healing energy of redemption. The angry child and punitive parent are their to trick and test you but ultimately they seek forgiveness as well.  

What's really going on is a battle between the the angry child and punitive parent.  When the angry child and the detached protector combine with compassion you get the dark knight.  The key is to never loose your sense of compassion for the lost abandoned lonely child.

Some wisdom of the dark knight

www.youtu.be/_qmK3lpkgVo

[Turkish]

Has she been doing in-depth work, making sure her patterns change (the way you admirably have), or just changing her appearance, her living space, her attachments? Good for her if she found some peace, for now.

In depth, no. Her pattern was to quit going to her T when she felt better. Over three years of going to her, and before she left, my Ex told me she had finally just started to open up about her childhood issues. She refused to try medications 3 years ago to regulate her mood swings. So again, not listening to the T.

She's coping, and it's helping her. The "in-depth" work was to get support from a former co-worker/intern that she knew briefly who was studying to be a psych major. If she wasn't honest with her T (she said her T told her not to not be rash and leave me, that it was the worst thing she could do at the moment... .but then she didn't tell her T about the cheating), then someone else won't get it. All of the videos and motivational speeches she watched on youtube. They were going constantly in the background. Changed attachment, a young guy who flatters her and romances her to make her feel good and valued; it's being valued by one's attachments, rather than from inside (as a Rescuer, I get that, though not to such an extreme).

I met her this morning during back-to-back dental appointments with the kids. She showed up a little bit annoyed. The kids gave her a hard time. She said she had to get angry and only then would they go brush their teeth, and asked me if I had the same problem at my house. Not really, though I do get on them. I use the drill-instructor approach, minus the swearing. "Chop--chop- chop, let's go, we're late! I'm leaving without you!" That gets them going. I don't have to get angry.

D2 mimics a puppy for some reason (panting). I think it's adorable. Their mom said she didn't like it (in front of D2). I told her I didn't teach her that, not sure where she picked it up, but that I thought it was cute. I could understand, however, how it could be annoying if she eats food off the floor sometimes.

Their mom was happier when we got inside the dental room. She even asked how my mom was doing. I resisted the urge to say, "why do you care? my mom thinks you hate her." I told my mom (BPD) that my Ex doesn't hate her, but that it can certainly feel like that when she was angry or annoyed, which was often. Depersonalize, even though it's hurtful.

We left with no incident. She looked very good, and even got an obvious glance from a guy passing by. I felt a passing whiff of FOG there, like "why again couldn't I make it work?" I shook my head and it left. She's ok now, and I'm happy, but happier that my anger is less. She is who she is, and underneath, she is the same person. I am who I am, and I am striving to be the real me for me, not someone else.

[Mutt]

I met her this morning during back-to-back dental appointments with the kids. She showed up a little bit annoyed. The kids gave her a hard time. She said she had to get angry and only then would they go brush their teeth, and asked me if I had the same problem at my house. Not really, though I do get on them. I use the drill-instructor approach, minus the swearing. "Chop--chop- chop, let's go, we're late! I'm leaving without you!" That gets them going. I don't have to get angry.

Turk I'm sorry I at the drill instructor. I could hear Sgt Slaughter when I read that line. I mean that in a good way. He was a motivator.

It sounds like she was trying to make you feel guilty for her. She HAD to get angry at the kids. It sounds like she wants pity. You didn't rescue, you simply said you don't have that issue. I'm not saying that you rescue. She chose this for herself, she started another r/s and it's two homes now and you don't complain about being a single dad to her.

It's an observation from where I'm looking and I know you have said this on the boards ~ BPD waif.

I'm happy to hear that it went well  

[Turkish]

Good observation that she was playing Waif, Mutt... I did feel the need to rescue. To me, these are normal kid struggles. I can get frustrated, but I don't get angry, or control it when I feel it. These are little kids. I'm the adult.

D2 doesn't dysregulate as much as S4. The other day though, she got mad at me for telling her to sit at the table and finish her dinner. Started baby talk-human talk about gong to Mommy's apartment. I said, "there's the door," and pointed. She started walkng out! I grabbed her, hugged and kissed her, no need to get angry over her defiance. She was ok after that. I validated a triangulating 2 year old. No need to get angry.