What I don't get...

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I don't get why my ex wants to be friends so bad. I don't get whyvshe wants to hang out when I'm in town. I don't get why she continues to contact me. And I don't get why she calls me childish and not normal for not wanting to be friends and not wanting to visit her.

And I don't get why I care... .

[willy45]

I don't get why my ex wants to be friends so bad. I don't get whyvshe wants to hang out when I'm in town. I don't get why she continues to contact me. And I don't get why she calls me childish and not normal for not wanting to be friends and not wanting to visit her.

And I don't get why I care... .

[willtimeheal]

Mine told me yesterday she misses me. When I told her I didn't miss her she said she didn't miss her and I... .She just missed talking to me. She is desperately trying to hold on to whatever part of me she can.

I don't pretend to understand why but I believe she want  to keep me in her life as a.partner or as a friend because I was  the only one she could count on and I was the only one that result loved and cared about her. Maybe that is why she wants to be friends with you so badly. You have probably always been there, helped her when needed, and always put up with her moods.  She can't afford to lose you... .She "needs" you. But there comes a time when you have to do what is best for you. You can't save her or help her st the expense of your sanity.

[Caredverymuch]

I don't get why my ex wants to be friends so bad. I don't get whyvshe wants to hang out when I'm in town. I don't get why she continues to contact me. And I don't get why she calls me childish and not normal for not wanting to be friends and not wanting to visit her.

And I don't get why I care... .

Bc she lacks need supply.  Bc she wants to know she still can tap into you for need supply to temporarily ease her discomfort. Bc she gets a reaction from you. Bc ppl are attachments not mutually respected. Bc everything is about her needs, not yours.  Bc she knows you have moved on to another r/s. Bc you are resisting.  This will continue until you block her.  In every way.  The moment you agree to this " friend thing" you will be split and dropped on your head again.

You care bc you loved this person.  And you deserved the same love and respect in return. You care bc you are not a pBPD. You care bc you don't view ppl as attachments.  You care bc you haven't put your own emotional well being first yet. You care bc you still believe there is hope for this r/s. 

Once you take back the control Willy, and do what you need to do to get off the roller coaster... .you will heal.

[Caredverymuch]

I don't get why my ex wants to be friends so bad. I don't get whyvshe wants to hang out when I'm in town. I don't get why she continues to contact me. And I don't get why she calls me childish and not normal for not wanting to be friends and not wanting to visit her.

And I don't get why I care... .

Bc she lacks need supply.  Bc she wants to know she still can tap into you for need supply to temporarily ease her discomfort. Bc she gets a reaction from you. Bc ppl are attachments not mutually respected. Bc everything is about her needs, not yours.  Bc she knows you have moved on to another r/s. Bc you are resisting.  This will continue until you block her.  In every way.  The moment you agree to this " friend thing" you will be split and dropped on head again. At the risk of losing your present partner.  And if you do as a result of maintaining contact with your ex, she won't care one bit. That's another reason why she wants to be your "friend."  She's not your friend, Willy.

You care bc you loved this person.  And you deserved the same love and respect in return. You care bc you are not a pBPD. You care bc you don't view ppl as attachments.  You care bc you haven't put your own emotional well being first yet. You care bc you still believe there is hope for this r/s. 

Once you take back the control Willy, and do what you need to do to get off the roller coaster... .you to heal.

[Caredverymuch]

 My apology as I attempt to delete the repeated post.

[fromheeltoheal]

You do get why willy; you've been around for a while now, and the answers are repeated daily.  A bigger question is why aren't you willing to accept it yet?

[willy45]

That is a great question... .Why can't I accept this?

It just doesn't make sense to me. It really doesn't. How can someone be so selfish and needy? How can someone say the things she says to me and not mean them?

I guess I get sucked into her 'logic' which isn't really there. She only cares about herself but has absolutely no self awareness. It is just so foreign to me. I have oodles of self awareness. Not that it seems to be helping me. I just don't get how someone can be so messed up as to not see how their behavior hurts others. And to feel no remorse. And then to blame someone for hurting when they have been explicitly told that what they do hurts someone. It is just odd to me. But I keep getting sucked into her logic. And I go into stupid zombie mode.

[Chasing_Ghosts]

That is a great question... .Why can't I accept this?

It just doesn't make sense to me. It really doesn't. How can someone be so selfish and needy? How can someone say the things she says to me and not mean them?

I guess I get sucked into her 'logic' which isn't really there. She only cares about herself but has absolutely no self awareness. It is just so foreign to me. I have oodles of self awareness. Not that it seems to be helping me. I just don't get how someone can be so messed up as to not see how their behavior hurts others. And to feel no remorse. And then to blame someone for hurting when they have been explicitly told that what they do hurts someone. It is just odd to me. But I keep getting sucked into her logic. And I go into stupid zombie mode.

I completely agree Willy. Im stuck here too. Our logical minds are our Achilles heel in our battle with the borderline. As you well know there is no logic in emotions which is fact to our exs. I agree though the analysis is enough to make ones head spin. An endless rabbit hole with no real answers. Stupid zombie mode is not a fun place to be and im really tired of being here as well.(As im sure you are) Its such a pointless existence when one is living as such. Yet were stuck. Quite a predicament. Is it our stuborness to accept? Possibly. I still want to try the being "friends" thing but mines cold atm. So im kinda on the other end yet were both sitting in purgatory. woo!

[enlighten me]

I may be wrong but the way I see it is that they want to be friends not for the purely selfish reason of supply but because they still like you. They know your a good person, they realise that they were at fault for their own behaviour and you where their scapegoat for their emotions. They cannot admit to this though as it would shatter the fragile mask that holds their life together.

They realise that their expectations where impossible to meet and that just because you fell short of their expectations it doesn't make you a bad person. They want to show you that they are a nice person but are unable to be in a relationship as they always fail.

Both my uBPDex's want to remain friends with me. My ex wife has said how much she misses me as I was her best friend. My exgf wants us to be friends and every time I see her I can see how torn she is.

My exgf also once said that we should never have moved in together and she was happy just F ing me! At the time this hurt but now I can see what she was trying to say. By making the relationship more than just sex then it left me open to not live up to her expectations. This then meant that she had no choice but to devalue me which she didn't want to do as I was always the special one to her.

I hope this makes sense.

[Suspicious1]

Enlighten me, that makes sense. Perhaps friendship indicates forgiveness. Or means there hasn't been abandonment. That's why some can be so frantic about getting it, then walk away as soon as they have it.

Has anyone ever tried reverse psychology in this way in order to get less contact with an ex?

[fromheeltoheal]

It's helpful to remember that someone who develops the disorder also stops developing emotionally, and to realize that we were in relationships with little kids who are living a lie called adult, and everything 'adult' sounding was only copied and recited back; we don't spend a lot of time analyzing what a three year old says and does, it's pretty obvious why they do what they do.  Whether that's completely accurate or not doesn't matter, it's close and it just feels better, and then we can get on with discovering the sobering reasons we fell for it and got in so deep, a much more fruitful focus moving forward.  And everyone likes three year olds, they're cute.  And sometimes they throw tantrums.

[trappedinlove]

Enlighten me, that makes sense. Perhaps friendship indicates forgiveness. Or means there hasn't been abandonment. That's why some can be so frantic about getting it, then walk away as soon as they have it.

Has anyone ever tried reverse psychology in this way in order to get less contact with an ex?

What worked for me is simply saying the truth the way I see it that I'll always be her friend at heart even when we are not communicating or in contact.

[Caredverymuch]

That is a great question... .Why can't I accept this?




I guess I get sucked into her 'logic' which isn't really there. She only cares about herself but has absolutely no self awareness. It is just so foreign to me. I have oodles of self awareness. Not that it seems to be helping me.

It just doesn't make sense to me. It really doesn't. How can someone be so selfish and needy? How can someone say the things she says to me and not mean them?



I refuse to believe this is a disordered person. I continue to have hope her statements are genuine as I allow this control over me to continue.

I just don't get how someone can be so messed up as to not see how their behavior hurts others.

I just don't get how I refuse to see how this persons behavior continues to hurt me.

Is that "friendship?"

[Mr Hollande]

This is my opinion and I'm not saying this is one to follow, we all have to walk our own path out of this nightmare, but... .offering them friendship, after everything they've done, is like kissing the boot that has kicked you in the face for as long as the r/s lasted. Anyone willing to do that must be seriously masochistic IMO. I was blind when I was with her which is why I took the abuse but once out my eyes were opened enough to realise the necessity to get out of her kill zone. That includes any so called friendship. I wouldn't lend mine a hand even if she was dangling off the edge of a cliff.

[Caredverymuch]

This is my opinion and I'm not saying this is one to follow, we all have to walk our own path out of this nightmare, but... .offering them friendship, after everything they've done, is like kissing the boot that has kicked you in the face for as long as the r/s lasted. Anyone willing to do that must be seriously masochistic IMO. I was blind when I was with her which is why I took the abuse but once out my eyes were opened enough to realise the necessity to get out of her kill zone. That includes any so called friendship. I wouldn't lend mine a hand even if she was dangling off the edge of a cliff.

I did offer my expBPD a hand, for months after the chaotic splittings began. In friendship. A word I used often when he would split be white again.  "Aren't we at least friends", I would ask.  "Where did that friendship go?"  He would project a bunch of clatter that made sense to me at the time bc I knew nothing about BPD and was still deep in the rabbit hole of unrealistic hope. And on the crazy train. 

My "friend" actually did leave me dangling off the edge of a cliff.   My "friend" fell upon me in an emotionally shambled heap of despair as I attempted in my most undone wide open emotional moment to understand why I was  being dumped on my head, yet again, after coming to his emotional rescue. Why I was split black literally overnight, as I agreed to his plea for my "friendship."

As I accepted the bait. As I sat and listened to him tell me just 24 hrs before how empty and alone he was without me, how he just wanted to be able to talk with me, how he had a hole in his heart and his life would never be the same without me in it, how he loved me more than I knew, how he was so sad and alone in his r/s that he returned to, how no one but me listened to him or ever knew him so deeply, how he knew one day we would be together and he was working on himself to get there, how he thought about me every moment and missed me, how he couldn't go to any of the places we went  to bc it was far too painful, how he couldn't listen to any of the music we shared, how he had to drive alone to far off places bc he was in so much pain without me in his life.

But today, 24 hours later, after I agreed to be his "friend", I was dumped again. On my head. Harder than ever before.

I lost all my strength as I just sat there and wept, so hard that my body trembled from head to toe.  The kind of weeping that no sound can come forth. The kind of grief that a stranger would find difficult to witness.  Pain so acute and the hurt beyond fathom.  Never in all of my years had I been that undone. While my "friend" looked at me with zero emotion and coldness. Righteousness. Refused to give me the time of day. He was running late to a meeting.  Said he was working on his r/s and had no place for me in his life any longer as such ( you know, the one that he went back to that was so awful). Oh yeah, and he had resumed his sex life there too, he felt the need to add in.  The boot kick in the face.

I  think back to this moment often when I question much.

When you get out of the FOG, the vision is horrifically 20/20.

[willy45]

Hey guys. Thanks so much.

CaredVeryMuch, I love your assessment. I am indeed having trouble accepting that she is disordered.

And just for context about the friendship offer... .And part of what I don't get. In the past 2 years, I have told her to F off, told her to get therapy, told her I hadn't given her enough and wasn't going to let her take more, told her she was abusive, told her I get panic attacks when she contacts me, told her it was torture to have her constantly in contact, told her I had a girlfriend, told her that I got massive anxiety whenever I would visit where she lives when I have to for work, told her how she contacts me just when I'm healing and it puts me back, and on and on and on. I have tried everything other than being able to ignore the barrage of contact that still comes. This is what makes my head spin. As much as I would like to think it is because she cares about me and likes me as a person, each time she contacts me it starts with love bombing me and then very shortly after it turns into devaluing me, criticizing me, denying everything that happened and mocking my feelings.

This is what I have refused to accept. I need to figure out why. Am I so unhappy with my current gf that I'm sabatoging it by allowing this to continue? Or have I been so emotionally and verbally abused that I just revert back to the person that let's her walk all over me because I don't want to experience the rage. I guess I'm stuck because I still hold out hope that she will change or that I was wrong. But her last BF just moved across the ocean and called it off 'out of the blue'. Who does that? I think I know... .Someone who is very scared of being abused.

[Mr Hollande]

As appalling reading as that is CVM, thank you for hammering home my point better than I ever could.

[Pou]

I don't get why my ex wants to be friends so bad. I don't get whyvshe wants to hang out when I'm in town. I don't get why she continues to contact me. And I don't get why she calls me childish and not normal for not wanting to be friends and not wanting to visit her.

And I don't get why I care... .

Willy45, in my simplistic view, she is laying out a trap for you by using words to manipulate your view and feelings.  once she gets you to hear enough of her non-sense, you lose orientation and falls back into her web of craziness.  If I am you, I would do a complete shut down and cut off all the communication.  Would you talk to a hunter who laying out a trap for you and care about him or her when you know that at the end of the day, there will be tons of problems for buying into all these nonsense?  she continues to do it, because she knows that you are about to bite the bate.  run away... as fast as you can.

[willy45]

As I accepted the bait. As I sat and listened to him tell me just 24 hrs before how empty and alone he was without me, how he just wanted to be able to talk with me, how he had a hole in his heart and his life would never be the same without me in it, how he loved me more than I knew, how he was so sad and alone in his r/s that he returned to, how no one but me listened to him or ever knew him so deeply, how he knew one day we would be together and he was working on himself to get there, how he thought about me every moment and missed me, how he couldn't go to any of the places we went  to bc it was far too painful, how he couldn't listen to any of the music we shared, how he had to drive alone to far off places bc he was in so much pain without me in his life.

CVM, This is EXACTLY what she says to me. Word for word. Everytime she calls me again. Seriously. Word for word. How eerie. And I fall for it, every single time. And when I express the same thing to her, she acts like I'm insane, like I'm a child, like I have some serious mental problem. I asked her once why should say these things to me all the time. She told me they were just 'words' and she just said them 'to be nice'. And then berates me for 'bringing up the past' and 'being mean' and 'being childish' for getting derailed by her offers of 'friendship'.

This is what makes me crazy. Some times I just slip into trying to understand her from the perspective of her being a non-disordered person who actually means what she says, thinks about what she has to say to me, and has the capacity to action and responsibility for these things. When she rejects me after her telling me all this stuff, she acts like I'm crazy and just comes back at me hard and heavy with how miserable I made her and what I jerk I was and how there is no way she would ever want to be romantic with me and that I need to stop all this romantic nonsense. It makes my head spin. Because she is the one that brings it up! And when I say that, she just goes completely mental and denies, attacks, accuses.

And then she comes back. Over and over again. Like nothing happened. Just calls to 'check in' because she 'cares about me' and wants to see how things are and to offer her 'friendship'.

It is really making me ill. I keep falling back into the fantasy.

[Whiteytheox72]

I tried to do the friend thing for two years post break up. I essentially was an emotional tampon. I heard things no friend should hear... .her seduction and year long incestuous relationship with a cousin who was 71 she was 42, advertising on craigslist for sex, drunk driving with her kids in the car. Anyway our friendship enables them. I listened and was kind and considerate (my codependent tendencies). As hard and as painful as it is DO NOT MAINTAIN A FRIENDSHIP. I lost two years of my life and became a hollow man chasing rainbows and enabling deviate behavior. Im in the initial stages of NC and it sucks but if myself personally were to continue a one way friendship I would end up even more emotionally devistated than I already am. The relationship we all thought we had was beautiful lies we wanted desperate to believe. We werent the first and we wont be the last. Sever ties and run.

[fromheeltoheal]

And I fall for it, every single time.

This is what makes me crazy.

It makes my head spin.

It is really making me ill.

I keep falling back into the fantasy.

So why don't you stop talking to her and remove her from your life?  Because you're getting something out of it; what might that be?  You will go roundy round forever unless you dig and change your behavior.

[Caredverymuch]

As I accepted the bait. As I sat and listened to him tell me just 24 hrs before how empty and alone he was without me, how he just wanted to be able to talk with me, how he had a hole in his heart and his life would never be the same without me in it, how he loved me more than I knew, how he was so sad and alone in his r/s that he returned to, how no one but me listened to him or ever knew him so deeply, how he knew one day we would be together and he was working on himself to get there, how he thought about me every moment and missed me, how he couldn't go to any of the places we went  to bc it was far too painful, how he couldn't listen to any of the music we shared, how he had to drive alone to far off places bc he was in so much pain without me in his life.

CVM, This is EXACTLY what she says to me. Word for word. Everytime she calls me again. Seriously. Word for word. How eerie. And I fall for it, every single time. And when I express the same thing to her, she acts like I'm insane, like I'm a child, like I have some serious mental problem. I asked her once why should say these things to me all the time. She told me they were just 'words' and she just said them 'to be nice'. And then berates me for 'bringing up the past' and 'being mean' and 'being childish' for getting derailed by her offers of 'friendship'.

This is what makes me crazy. Some times I just slip into trying to understand her from the perspective of her being a non-disordered person who actually means what she says, thinks about what she has to say to me, and has the capacity to action and responsibility for these things. When she rejects me after her telling me all this stuff, she acts like I'm crazy and just comes back at me hard and heavy with how miserable I made her and what I jerk I was and how there is no way she would ever want to be romantic with me and that I need to stop all this romantic nonsense. It makes my head spin. Because she is the one that brings it up! And when I say that, she just goes completely mental and denies, attacks, accuses.

And then she comes back. Over and over again. Like nothing happened. Just calls to 'check in' because she 'cares about me' and wants to see how things are and to offer her 'friendship'.

It is really making me ill. I keep falling back into the fantasy.

And how is this working for you then? What more do you need to learn that will allow you to stop going back for " more". Which is really far less than nothing.

Do you prefer feeling physically ill and risking your present r/s for someone who will not be there for you in any way? For someone who says exactly what they need to say to hook us back in. This is called parroting. Why we all hear the same scripts.  Something they learned very early on in their childhoods. Reading their punitive parents mood before it can surface and parrot what they need to hear.  To be the emotional caregiver. In attempt to get that love they never got. Or to defuse before a rage.

They parrot to us to bait. They know what we want to hear bc they read us very well too.  But these parrotings are pure manipulations.  Then, they puff up their false ego in Detached Protector mode and kick us in the gut. Over. And over. And over. Again. Bc we believe these scripts.

These are false words.  With no real meaning behind them. Why they are not remembered. Or carried through upon. They are just words. That make our hearts believe in something that is not real. Or obtainable with these ppl.

Is there truly anything left to learn that could help you understand that these ppl move on at the speed of lightening and do this over and over again.

There is nothing special about our individuality to them.  The only thing that is appealing is our willingness to supply one sided disordered attention.

I hope you can one day block her in all forms of communication so you can gain your emotional wellbeing back, willy.  What they do to us is horrific. Until we wake up and stay away.

[willy45]

Yeah. Totally getting there. Been 2 weeks since her last emails telling me I am childish, etc... .I have not responded (no small part in thanks to all of you and this site!  Thank the good god lord that there is a forum for my random musings... .).

And, I just got a call from an unknown number 10 minutes ago. And a message was left. Pat me on the back for not picking up! Pretty certain it is her. Probably just wanting to 'check in'. Or not. Who knows. The worst part of all this is that I am terrified of the phone these days (years). Help me to not listen to the message!

[Mr Hollande]

Well done chief! Doesn't have to be more complicated than that.

[fromheeltoheal]

And, I just got a call from an unknown number 10 minutes ago. And a message was left. Pat me on the back for not picking up! Pretty certain it is her. Probably just wanting to 'check in'. Or not. Who knows. The worst part of all this is that I am terrified of the phone these days (years). Help me to not listen to the message!

My ex left me a voicemail after I left her, and I listened to it long enough to hear her in full-on sugar mode, chipper as hell, only a few days after one of the most painful experiences of my life.  It revolted me, I couldn't listen to more than 10 seconds of it, because I was done.  We're done when we're done, which happens when the pain of staying becomes greater than the pain of leaving.  Terrified of the phone huh?  Are you done yet?

[willy45]

Yes. I'm getting there, again.

My challenge: just accept she is disordered and I'll and she 'needs' me to save her. Not a pretty picture. And whatever I do, if she is part of my life, she will destroy me.

[willtimeheal]

Yeah. Totally getting there. Been 2 weeks since her last emails telling me I am childish, etc... .I have not responded (no small part in thanks to all of you and this site!  Thank the good god lord that there is a forum for my random musings... .).

And, I just got a call from an unknown number 10 minutes ago. And a message was left. Pat me on the back for not picking up! Pretty certain it is her. Probably just wanting to 'check in'. Or not. Who knows. The worst part of all this is that I am terrified of the phone these days (years). Help me to not listen to the message!

Willy,

When you are ready change your number.

I agree with others on this board... .friendship with them is a no.  Mine begged me for a friendship after. Friendship is based on trust and respect. Two things she never showed or treated me with during our relationship. Why would I expect that thru a friendship with her? 

I feel if you agree to the friendship it tells them that they way they treated you during the relationship ... .the abusive, belittling, put downs, is acceptable and makes everything ok. What she put me through is unacceptable and I do not need or want friends like that.