Painted black today and out

[meerkat1]

Wow. I had a nice month. Then this morning it was over. Something triggered her. Fighting for 8 hours or more. She just would not back off. I used Set. Would not work. I validated and validated. Enforces boundaries. Just kept getting worse.

Finally I had to get the police involved. I went outside to walk away from her jabs and nasty comments. I told her I would not stand for it. I waited 10 minutes and called from the back yard. I could get a word in. She said I was not allowed back in and to leave. Get out. Don't come back. Of course it is cold. I  I'm shorts. Barefoot. No car keys. She threw them into the yard earlier in the day and I could not find them. I told her I needs to get some stuff if I am to leave. She said she barricaded the doors. So I called the  police

They come. She straightened up. Tells them that I can come back in and we can try to be in the house and work it out as soon as they leave. She makes me leave

I am out getting a hotel now

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[formflier]

Wow. I had a nice month. Then this morning it was over. Something triggered her. Fighting for 8 hours or more. She just would not back off. I used Set. Would not work. I validated and validated. Enforces boundaries. Just kept getting worse.

Finally I had to get the police involved. I went outside to walk away from her jabs and nasty comments. I told her I would not stand for it. I waited 10 minutes and called from the back yard. I could get a word in. She said I was not allowed back in and to leave. Get out. Don't come back. Of course it is cold. I  I'm shorts. Barefoot. No car keys. She threw them into the yard earlier in the day and I could not find them. I told her I needs to get some stuff if I am to leave. She said she barricaded the doors. So I called the  police

They come. She straightened up. Tells them that I can come back in and we can try to be in the house and work it out as soon as they leave. She makes me leave

I am out getting a hotel now

 

Hang in there... .get as much sleep as you can... .tomorrow is a new day.

[meerkat1]

How can I sleep she is still calling me. Non stop on the phone. I keep taking short breaks, but she is still expecting me to help her. I can't. She is so totally out of control. Her emotions are completely gone.

Just having a real hard time here. I want to help her, but I can't. Nothing helps.

To top it off I keep with the boundary of not letting her get me upset. Of me getting away or off the line as soon as she starts taking jabs at me.

And now she is threatening me. To get back at me. It is like in the movie the exorcist. She is possessed.

[formflier]

  Nothing helps.

Then... .if it's not helping... .stop doing it! 

Take deep breath... .this has been a tough day... .tell her when you will contact her again (to calm abandonment fears)... .and get some sleep.  Make sure you contact here when you say you will... .after a good nights sleep.

Spend some time reading about boundaries... .if you are going to use them... you must make them stick.

8 hours is way too long to fight... .

You have to learn disengagement skills... .

What would this day have been like if you cut the argument at 15 minutes... .? 

Stop the bleeding!

You have the power to change your r/s... .but only you can make a decision to use that power... .

 

[waverider]

I think you are probably spending too much time trying to validate and using SET etc to keep the lid on a situation where it has gone passed your "boundaries'. However you do not appear to have a predetermine reaction to protect your boundary.

To top it off I keep with the boundary of not letting her get me upset

How is this a boundary and what is your action to enact it? As this is clearly what is happening.

You not being effected is seen to her as defiance as that is what she is trying to achieve, hence the escalation. As far as she is concerned you are not taking it serious.

One of the most important things to have in place with volatile relationships is to have that escape plan. Somewhere to go, a means to do it and a predetermined stage of development when to enact it. You may never need it, but knowing it  is there means you dont feel as trapped and desperate, and most likely improve the clarity of your decision making.

Answering the phone is stressing you so tell her you will not be speaking again on the phone until tomorrow. If it starts again repeat the process. Dont keep re engaging while the emotions are still inflamed.

You need to flip the main fuse, even if it means she trashes the house while you are gone

[meerkat1]

Thanks. I did end the calls. Still could not sleep.

So tired. So tired of all this fighting. Many things seemed to be working to keep the demons at bay. Even had three days leading up to yesterday of working things through. She was having difficult times, we were able to work through them, discuss them. Resolve the burning issue she had at hand.

I don't know what was different about yesterday. I guess that is the issue with the illness. There is no reasonable explanation. No way to know when it is coming or what caused it.

She just simply flipped out out on me. At first I did not even have a chance to enforce any boundary. It was like a huge sucker punch out of no where. Instantly screaming in my face, cursing, calling me names, making demands, and poking jabs(verbal) at me. I told her in that instant I was not standing there taking that. I was not going to discuss. I am leaving the room right now. We can try to talk again later. She demanded I leave the house and not come back. I said fine, I can leave if that is what you need. I grabbed my keys said I will talk to you later. I will be back. I have told her this when she was not angry before. In preparation. That I will leave the room, leave the house, or whatever when things are out of hand. When she starts to poke and jab at me, cursing, throwing things, or whatever abusive tactics she has going on. But I will be back. I am staying not leaving I told her.

Yesterday none of that mattered. I did go outside the house, just hung out in the yard. I went back after a little bit to see if we could talk again. She was still beligerent. Maybe even more so. So back at, I have to leave again. This time she comes outside gets in her car and leaves.

This resulted in us texting for many hours. I tried and tried to work through it that way. As soon as one issue was resolved, meaning we worked through all her intense feelings, she just found a new one. She could not get beligerent in texts, but she could say mean things and did.

Again, I told her I will stop talking/texting if it continued. It would stop for a little bit, then start again. Snide, rude comments meant to get me upset. Again, I would not get upset but would tell her to stop or we will not talk anymore. This just cycled for hours.

No amount of SET or validation was enough for her. No amount of reassurances would help.

Every time we talked it just escalated further.

And now she is starting all over again today. Blowing up my phone with calls and messages.

She threatened to take my son's phone away if he talked to any one about what was going on.

She keeps demanding things to be explained over and over again. Like somehow it will change the way she is feeling.

What she really wants is me to take the fall for everything. To somehow reassure her that everything that happened is my fault. All her feelings are my fault. I make her feel that way. She won't quit until I admit that it is all my fault and not only that I would have to make things up, fantasy if you will, about how things happened to cause all this. I have to admit that  I had some feelings I did not have. That I did things to purposefully hurt her. That I did this all to make her feel bad.

She is now calling me a bad father. Me, a father who gets up and makes his kids breakfast everyday. Gets his kids on the bus everyday. Plays, hugs, kisses, bathes, feed, medicine, put to bed everyday. I will have to ask my kids the last time my wife reached out and hugged any of them. Don't get me wrong, she is a good mom. She helps them with lots of stuff I would have trouble with.

I don't know what to do anymore. I really don't think anything can be saved at this point.

I can't say anything to her without it escalating. This may go on for days. Even if she comes down, I just can't keep doing this. It is brutal!

[formflier]

I don't know what to do anymore. I really don't think anything can be saved at this point.

I can't say anything to her without it escalating. This may go on for days. Even if she comes down, I just can't keep doing this. It is brutal!

You are sleep deprived... .figure out a way to get some sleep... .limit contact with her until you can respond properly.

Tell her this... .and tell her when you will reestablish contact... .

Not sure if it is habit or sleep deprivation... .but you seem to be able to identify when things aren't working... .but then will delay a boundary... .

I'm also a bit worried about her demanding you leave the house and you complying... .it's like she is putting a boundary on you... .  Hoping others can comment on this... .

Limit contact... .get sleep... .

You are in the stop the bleeding phase  very important to do this... .

[meerkat1]

I think that I am always sleep deprived. I figured out that I sleep an average of 2 hours less than my wife every single day. That ends up being two whole days of no sleep per week. A lot of it because I have to soothe her feelings each night. I am so sick of soothing her. I am tired, exhausted, beat down.

Just a week ago, I was fine. She was fine.

What really baffles me is how she will say things like... ." Last week you were all loving. Telling me you were here for me. That you loved me. You were not going to leave. You were sorry for how bad I felt, hugged me... .why did you not say those things to me yesterday, why did you just fight with me?" It is like she is on a different planet. Of course I said those things. No exaggeration, I said them at least 100 times. I not even once fell into the trap of answering her "why" questions. I focused everything on how bad she felt. Sympathized. Empathy. Validation. It just does not work. I tried to give her a hug, she pushed me away. Would not even let me touch her hand.

I feel so bad for my oldest son! He is really having a hard time. He saw it happening yesterday. He just hid in another room, put head phones on, the whole day. Was so very sad. I want to be able to tell him to see the counselor at school today, but I can't get a hold of him. I am afraid to even text him, cause my pwBPD will get his phone and read his texts. She already yelled at him for talking to his friend on Instagram, or something like that.

What really made me mad is the Police. They are useless. They come to my house, I called them, and they act like I did something wrong. My wife gets hives all over her body when she gets upset. They asked if she wanted them to arrest me. I was nice to them. Cordial. Seems they are on women's side no matter what.

[meerkat1]

I think if you are a man, there is just no point in calling the police. She locked me out, barricaded the doors, with my kids inside. I have no history of violence. Was completely calm on the phone, calm when they got there. I am in the garage, barefoot, holding my socks (cause I did not want to get them wet). My wife had even opened the doors. My kids our outside with me! Playing with the dog.

Yet, they offered to arrest me! She was belligerent for hours. Non-stop. She was even drinking by the time they got to my house.

She is still belligerent, upset, can't calm down. Blaming me for everything.

[meerkat1]

I am going to call my employers help line, see if I can get some quick assistance. They have referral program to licensed therapists.

I have gone before.

I am wondering if I should invite my pwBPD this time. Tell her I am going to get help. Offer to see if she would go.

In my heart, it is the kind, right, and considerate thing to do. In my mind, I know I will get bashed for it. I will somehow approach it the wrong way, or she will feel slighted or insulted somehow.

Or I could try to approach it like I was thinking of this, what do you think? Do you think it is a good idea... .

Not sure if I should say anything at all.

[formflier]

I am going to call my employers help line, see if I can get some quick assistance. They have referral program to licensed therapists.

I have gone before.

I am wondering if I should invite my pwBPD this time. Tell her I am going to get help. Offer to see if she would go.

In my heart, it is the kind, right, and considerate thing to do. In my mind, I know I will get bashed for it. I will somehow approach it the wrong way, or she will feel slighted or insulted somehow.

Or I could try to approach it like I was thinking of this, what do you think? Do you think it is a good idea... .

Not sure if I should say anything at all.

Work on yourself first... .until you can test the waters to see if she is receptive... .

Also make sure you have a way to lock your phone... .make sure you find a way to do recordings with you phone.

This sucks... .really bad... .but recording what really happened... .vice getting arrested for a fantasy... .is a tough place to be in.  DO NOT tell her you are recording... .

Yes... .ultimately you guys all need to be in counseling... .but more important to get one of you healthy and making good decisions... .that to try to get both of you doing that right now.

That's why I'm focused on you... .

What's done is done... .once you get some sleep... .and some distance from this event... .we need to come back to it and figure out what not to do next time... .and what to do more of.

The quick version of my comments is somehow you need to exit unproductive situations quickly... .

[waverider]

You should not be letting it get to the stage where she is kicking you out. You need to exit earlier before the extreme escalation. It has happened now, make a plan for when it starts heading down that path next time.

Validation is only oiling the cogs it will not prevent a breakdown if it happens, only reduce the chances.

When I was going through my worst patch I had tent and sleeping bag and fishing rods ready in the car with basics for a few nights away if necessary, so that I could go chill somewhere. Only had to do it once.

The point is should she could not make me suffer, I chilled while she had a tantrum. She got no vengeance out of that so never did it again.

Going to a T together will get you nowhere, it will turn into a blame game. Having one for yourself is to manage your mindset in the long run. It wont provide a quick fix.

[formflier]

She got no vengeance out of that so never did it again.

Key point!

Remember... .there is an order to the disorder.  Use that to your advantage.  We can help you figure out what she is after... .very important that she does not get what she wants!  Very important... .because eventually they will try a different tactic to get what they want... .and that point... .your r/s should improve.

[meerkat1]

That is not a bad idea. I had not thought of having a prepped bag ready in the waiting. I had in my mind what I would take, where to go, and etc. So I was more mentally prepared. I never had the scenario that she would barricade the doors, so was not ready for that.  I will have to hide all that stuff, otherwise it will be a big source of contention. Can't be in my car, but maybe at my office.

Should I just be ignoring all her pleas for help right now? My phone does not stop ringing. I don't want to turn off, cause my kids may need to call me. I already told them they can call me anytime, even take a break at school if necessary.

Should I just tell her I can't talk right now. Then ignore?

[formflier]

That is not a bad idea. I had not thought of having a prepped bag ready in the waiting. I had in my mind what I would take, where to go, and etc. So I was more mentally prepared. I never had the scenario that she would barricade the doors, so was not ready for that.  I will have to hide all that stuff, otherwise it will be a big source of contention. Can't be in my car, but maybe at my office.

Should I just be ignoring all her pleas for help right now? My phone does not stop ringing. I don't want to turn off, cause my kids may need to call me. I already told them they can call me anytime, even take a break at school if necessary.

Should I just tell her I can't talk right now. Then ignore?

Say something believable about busy at work/need sleep... .and give her a time you will attempt communication from her.  This to lesson abandonment fears... .may or may not work.

Then ignore... .

I would also leave a bag at your work... .just in case.  As you stated.

Also a good idea to have in car.  In trunk.  You don't have to explain it... .so don't.

[meerkat1]

Well it seems she is going to divorce me. Says the police coming to our house was so embarrassing and was the straw. She said she called a real estate agent to sell the house. And apparently children services are going to pay a visit. I am not sure any of that is true. Not sure what, if anything, I can believe.

Hard to understand why me calling the police, when she locked me out and barricaded the doors (which turned out was a lie) was so embarrassing, when she did the same thing a few years back.

I am not sure I even care. Or maybe relieved even.

I will be paying visit to the other boards on here now.

[formflier]

Well it seems she is going to divorce me. Says the police coming to our house was so embarrassing and was the straw. She said she called a real estate agent to sell the house. And apparently children services are going to pay a visit. I am not sure any of that is true. Not sure what, if anything, I can believe.

Hard to understand why me calling the police, when she locked me out and barricaded the doors (which turned out was a lie) was so embarrassing, when she did the same thing a few years back.

I am not sure I even care. Or maybe relieved even.

I will be paying visit to the other boards on here now.

You are correct to say that the things she said may not be true... .

She may be trying to up the ante and get a reaction out of you... .

Big time to be thinking about what you want... .because if you want to do everything you can to try to be a stayer... .that can sometimes run against the best advice for having a successful divorce... .or custody... .or saving money... that kind of thing.

Spend some time getting in touch with what you want... .

Give her time to cool down... .

[meerkat1]

I can't say divorce has never crossed my mind. I am sure it has for most. The thought of being in a place where I can relax. Get a good night sleep. Not have to deal with the latest emotional onset, good or bad. Be able to spend quality time with my kids. Instead of trying to keep them from bothering her and setting her off into a fit. Could go on vacation without fear of her ruining it because she did not get her way. That all sounds great.

But then I think: How will we pay for kids to go to college? How will the kids fare in two households? How will custody work? What will she do to make my life a living hell anyways? Will she ever get better? Yes I am still in the FOG. But the reality is I am a father and a husband. I owe it to all of them to be the best I can. To provide the best I can.

[formflier]

The thought of being in a place where I can relax. Get a good night sleep. Not have to deal with the latest emotional onset, good or bad. Be able to spend quality time with my kids. Instead of trying to keep them from bothering her and setting her off into a fit. Could go on vacation without fear of her ruining it because she did not get her way. That all sounds great.

What would happen if you just did that stuff you talked about... .and stayed married?

You are a Father... .go do quality time with you kids.  Never apologize.  Going on a vacation without the wife... .occasionally... .could be a bit more controversial... .

But... .if that is a desire of yours... .and you are considering that as a reason to possibly divorce... .don't you think you should exhaust all options inside the marriage to get that.

What's the worst outcome... .?  She gets mad and divorces you?

[meerkat1]

I have been trying that for years. Working very hard to be there for my kids. Spend time with them. She just blows up and when that happens she is in my face non-stop.

How do you handle leaving your kids with the wife? You have 8! I have three. They are having a hard time. and now she is goading me with that. Wont stop calling, wont stop texting. non-stop. Well into day 2 now.

I told her to leave me alone, give me space, let me know when she is cooled down. I know she will just instantly say she is cooled down. But she is not.

I want so bad to be able to be with my kids. I am not sure I can be around her anymore. It was good for a little while, but knowing that this can happen at any time and there is nothing i can do to stop it.

[ydrys017]

She got no vengeance out of that so never did it again.

Key point!

Remember... .there is an order to the disorder.  Use that to your advantage.  We can help you figure out what she is after... .very important that she does not get what she wants!  Very important... .because eventually they will try a different tactic to get what they want... .and that point... .your r/s should improve.

I'm having trouble understanding the logic here.    If she doesn't get what she wants, and she tries a different tactic - haven't you just traded one type of outburst for another, and your r/s is net even?  Even if she doesn't try the tactic against you, would she not simply take it out on someone else (kids for example)?

I'm constantly alert for this and very concerned that my uBPDw will simply transition from me to the kids, or my parents, or her brother, or... .

[meerkat1]

And when I don't answer her call she has the kids start calling me.

[formflier]

I have been trying that for years. Working very hard to be there for my kids. Spend time with them. She just blows up and when that happens she is in my face non-stop.

How do you handle leaving your kids with the wife? You have 8! I have three. They are having a hard time. and now she is goading me with that. Wont stop calling, wont stop texting. non-stop. Well into day 2 now.

I told her to leave me alone, give me space, let me know when she is cooled down. I know she will just instantly say she is cooled down. But she is not.

I want so bad to be able to be with my kids. I am not sure I can be around her anymore. It was good for a little while, but knowing that this can happen at any time and there is nothing i can do to stop it.

It sucked... .bigtime... .  But in my case there were lots of other eyes watching.  So... chances of anything physical or harmful... .were small.

Rules were imposed and we both had to live by them.

It had a calming effect... .and focused me and her more on family T.  And MC. 

Eventually real progress was made... .it's not fixed... .but is much better.

Neither one of us wants the old r/s back.  Still defining the new r/s.

Talk to kids... .but not about Mom... .and don't play telephone.

Can you find a family T... .that can get you guys all in... .at least to be a referee...

[formflier]

And when I don't answer her call she has the kids start calling me.

Talk to them about their stuff... don't play telephone... .

Tell them when you will communicate with them again... .

this is tough... .

Anyone else with thoughts on this?

[formflier]

I'm having trouble understanding the logic here.    If she doesn't get what she wants, and she tries a different tactic - haven't you just traded one type of outburst for another, and your r/s is net even?  Even if she doesn't try the tactic against you, would she not simply take it out on someone else (kids for example)?

I'm constantly alert for this and very concerned that my uBPDw will simply transition from me to the kids, or my parents, or her brother, or... .

pwBPD do what they do because they perceive it is working for them.  You changing tactics helps the perceive that it is not.

Whatever it is that they want... .they will try something else to get it.  Hopefully you can nudge them in the direction of "asking" for what they want in a more productive way by positively reinforcing the "right way" to ask... .and ignoring their outbursts.

Figuring out what they really want is tough... .usually associated with the underlying emotion and reason behind the outburst.

Beware... .it will most likely not make sense to the "nons"... .

Does the logic make more sense now?

[meerkat1]

Still staying at hotel. But visiting the kids for an hour tonight. She is not supposed to be there.

She is still dis regulated. And goading me. Trying to fight.

Keeps asking me if I need to call the police and let them know I will be there. Over and over.

I tried to get her to give me space. She responded with the kid setup. But I think nice to go see them and talk and play for a little bit   Hopefully she honors her promise to leave for an hour.

[waverider]

She got no vengeance out of that so never did it again.

Key point!

Remember... .there is an order to the disorder.  Use that to your advantage.  We can help you figure out what she is after... .very important that she does not get what she wants!  Very important... .because eventually they will try a different tactic to get what they want... .and that point... .your r/s should improve.

I'm having trouble understanding the logic here.    If she doesn't get what she wants, and she tries a different tactic - haven't you just traded one type of outburst for another, .

Yes that is extinction bursts.

Analogy:The front door is locked, so she will go bang on the back door, when thats locked she will try prizing open a widow, when that does work she will scream her lungs out, until she runs out of breath and is exhausted with the futile attempts.

Boundaries are attacked with extinction bursts and attempts at outflanking. This is why you have to think about these potential reactions and simply be strong to outlast them. I know pwBPD seem to have endless energy, but this does take a toll on them and they run out eventually. They find the whole experience unpleasant and not rewarding.

"I will show him !" is their motivation. But if they can't then eventually it becomes an ineffective method.

You need to stay firm, giving in just provides intermittent reinforcement and teaches them that if they bang away at you they will eventually get you to cave. So next time you try to enforce a boundary it is even harder.

If she manages to use the kids to guilt you into giving in they will be become a regular tool in this.

[meerkat1]

We are trying to work out me coming back home today. Here is our conversation, I would like opinions (objective, not looking for validation), on whether or not she started a fight... .

Me: I would like to come home.

Her: what if we get in a fight? What then? Cant pretend it might not happen. Need a plan.

See u later.

Me: What could be a  plan.

Her: I dont know right now. It is not to call the cops though.

The last comment seemed to be a jab to me. She went on to claim it was not. She has been extremely upset that I called the police 2 days ago.

The only thing I said after that comment was that I felt she was starting a fight. I have not responded any further. She continues to bomb my phone with texts. I expect the calls to start coming anytime now.

Am I just supposed to ignore how I feel? Not say anything at all just to keep peace?

I truly felt that was a jab, meant to show how much I hurt her and to intentionally hurt me and goad me into being upset.

I really don't think this is working. Are extinction bursts just keep going and going, and then coming back again and again in such short order?

[meerkat1]

Well heading back home today. pwBPD has calmed down. I don't have much of a plan. Other than be supportive and empathize. If gets out of hand I will take a time out, hopefully does not get there. I plan to sleep in the basement and limit contact. I probably don't want to be in the rest of the house anyways. I was not home for over two days. I can only imagine the mess she made.

She already seems to have moved on from her own behavior. I am sure she has not moved on from the emotions and issues that got her there in the first place. But will be another time to address those. Not like she will ever address my issues anyways.

I will not mention buying race car  - see other post.

Hopefully we can stay in a peaceful zone for one night. I will be out of town on business the next two days anyways.

[formflier]

I truly felt that was a jab, meant to show how much I hurt her and to intentionally hurt me and goad me into being upset.

And it worked! 

You really need to focus on getting stronger so you can take the jabs.  Once they stop working... .she will stop tossing them... .she uses them now... .because they work.

Again... .try to focus on not taking it personally ... .she is doing it because it works... .

You determine if it works or not... .you have all the power there.  Use it... !