Re: Dramatic change is possible(Stop reacting)

[formflier]

Continuation from:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=234643.30

I other words, we need to stop showing strong reactions to their provocations?

Even better... .don't show any reaction.  

Even better than that... try to figure out the underlying emotion so you can validate that.

Best... .when they do have a positive interaction with you... .in other words... behave properly.  Validate that... .make sure they get something positive from that.

So... .if they are not getting the reaction they "want" with provocations... .and when they act "nice" and get positive feedback.

Things will change in the r/s.  

And the power is back to you... .because they are changing because of your choices... .not their provocations!  Think about this for a while... .then I encourage you to take back the power!

[formflier]

Wow... .so she mentioned but did nothing?

Did you tell her you DIDN'T want to get divorce? 

Yes... .lots of "mentioning" and threats.  I'm pretty sure she has called some lawyers.  she left lawyer web pages up for me to "find"... .  And the one that took the cake... .was that a lawyer (supposedly) called my house and asked for her... .said he was returning her call.  We had an argument the day before with a threat... .so it may have been an actual lawyer... or not.

But yes... .lots of divorce talk.

Or did you just ignore her threats?

Yes... mostly ignored.  Sometimes said "I'm sorry you feel that way... " 

Now... to be clear... .prior to me hearing about BPD... this site... and lessons... .it would be an argument... or worse.  So... .she had a long history of getting a "reaction" from me... .and kept it up for a while after I started reacting.

Or did you agree sometimes?

Never.  She knows my stance on this.  I've clearly said it in the past... .no reason to keep repeating.  I made a "till death do us part" commitment.  "In sickness and in health... ."  I will follow through on my word...

[Moselle]

Formflier. This whole post is eye opening. Thanks for the example of positive behaviour and proactive choice.

[ziniztar]

Just wanted to give my 2 cts: dBPDbf all of a sudden texted me yesterday "is it okay if we sleep together on Wednesday? I'll come to your place."

I don't think I've ever, ever, ever had the joy of him thinking ahead +2 days (in this case almost a week) to plan and pro-actively discuss when we would see each other. Why is this happening? Because I'm not taking full responsibility for it anymore and he's getting room to breathe.

1 thing I have to add: we had a shared calendar in iCloud and I deleted that during our break. I'm going to keep it this way. Now he has to communicate with me to tell me if he wants to cancel on something.

I loved your examples in this thread, I love the progress we're both making. Keep it up

[Lucky One]

Thank You Formflyer,

What a wonderful success story.

And much, for all of us to think about, and NEW ideas to put into action.

This is GREAT

[Lucky One]

wow. Thanks for posting that. Today I felt totally hopeless so I am glad you posted this update.

I also sometimes feel hopeless.

But, then it changes. Then I've got lots of hope. Changes, everyday. Sometimes by the hour!

Stories like Formflyer's gives us lot's of hope and new ideas.

We've got to work, more on ourselves, I think. Yes, definitely!

[ziniztar]

We've got to work, more on ourselves, I think. Yes, definitely!

That really is the only way we can accomplish change in our own lives. One of my friends started dating an NPD guy. She is now reading dozens of books on NPD and 'why is it always about you'. Unfortunately she doesn't understand that there is a good reason she was drawn to him in the first place. She went to therapy 3 to 4 times, says she now knows enough about him and his condition and is ready to quit therapy. If only I could make her see that she played a part in this as well...

[formflier]

 

And... .to not try to figure out who is "more at fault"... .

Don't wait on other person... .

[Indyan]

Unfortunately she doesn't understand that there is a good reason she was drawn to him in the first place.

I have a problem with this too. I mean, how can we be attracted to someone who has PD? It's not as if we could have foreseen that they would change like this?

[formflier]

I have a problem with this too. I mean, how can we be attracted to someone who has PD? It's not as if we could have foreseen that they would change like this?

I think that you may find... .once you read lessons and learn more about the disorder that there are ways to tell and "hints" or "redflags" that we all should have paid attention to.

All part of the learning process.

[Indyan]

I think that you may find... .once you read lessons and learn more about the disorder that there are ways to tell and "hints" or "redflags" that we all should have paid attention to.

All part of the learning process.

Sure... .now that we know all about it, so much I could do a PHD dissertation on the topic!

But back then... .I knew absolutely NOTHING about all this. I put some weird behaviour down to his recent break up from a *horriiiiible* woman. He was still touchy and edgy about some things, so he said, and I believed him. It could have been the truth... .

[ziniztar]

I think that you may find... .once you read lessons and learn more about the disorder that there are ways to tell and "hints" or "redflags" that we all should have paid attention to.

All part of the learning process.

Sure... .now that we know all about it, so much I could do a PHD dissertation on the topic!

But back then... .I knew absolutely NOTHING about all this. I put some weird behaviour down to his recent break up from a *horriiiiible* woman. He was still touchy and edgy about some things, so he said, and I believed him. It could have been the truth... .

Indiyan, I dated a pathological liar once. No huge stories. Just lies everywhere about normal things, such as doing the laundry, taking a holiday and in The end - about being enrolled in school and attending classes. I really had no idea nor any clues until he started making strange excuses for not paying back 10 euro's. We were already together for over a year then.

With BPD it's different. Everyone heard the story about the ex that treated them bad - even you did. Hoe many people have you dated that started blackpainting their ex on The first date? That's not a sign of emotional maturity or boundaries. The abundant idealisation is another thing. 'Normal'   people with healthy boundaries and a good self-esteem do not need that. They even find it somewhat annoying - it is too much. We were drawn to that because of our own low self-esteem and rescuer tendencies. Believing that this person is your night in shining armour that finally understands you and will make life easier is another unhealthy expectation. We should be making ourselves happy, not put that responsibility with someone else.

As with NPD, it does not take long before the narcicism shows. Not leaving at that point is a sign of weakened self-esteem. That friend can't stop talking about how she blocked him out of his life - and three days later she talked to him again. That has nothing to do with his narciccism, and everything with her repeating her own mistakes, due to fear, unrealistic expectations, and low self-esteem. It's not just about the beginning. It's also about why and how you choose to stay. (Where I do not mean that staying is doomed to fail. Staying, complaining about The other person, and not seeing your part of the dysfunctional dance, is.)

[formflier]

  seeing your part of the dysfunctional dance, is.)

This can be hard to do... .but critical to look for... .accept what you find... .and work on dealing with it.

[Grey Kitty]

FF & Indyan,

I saw a mention of fear and wishing you could do things differently... .One of my favorite realizations as I was coming out of a beaten down abused state in my r/s was this:

I had been afraid, and generally reacting to my fears. Perhaps I should be more specific--fears of anger, dysregulation, or emotional abuse from my wife, although other fears could apply too.

Eventually I started employing boundaries and was able to protect myself.

I then noticed that I didn't like who I was very much when I was reacting to those fears. I liked who I was much better when I acknowledged the fears, but did what I felt was right despite them.

I am a much happier Grey Kitty now than I was then!

[ziniztar]

I then noticed that I didn't like who I was very much when I was reacting to those fears. I liked who I was much better when I acknowledged the fears, but did what I felt was right despite them.

I recognize this a lot. I've always suffered from huge abandonment fears but felt i was entitled to the care/nurturing/comfort I was looking for and that I had a right to demand this. Now in T I am learning that I can't project whatever I feel towards my father and stepmother, to dBPDbf. Or friends, for that matter.

It's dangerous when people advise others to 'follow your heart'. I learnt 2 years ago that that hadn't worked for me, but I didn't know what to change yet. Now I know there is a difference between following your gut feeling (intuition), and following your emotions. Since I started not always following my emotions (fears mostly, guilt and shame too) I feel so much more together. Like an adult. Powerful.

[Lucky One]

I then noticed that I didn't like who I was very much when I was reacting to those fears. I liked who I was much better when I acknowledged the fears, but did what I felt was right despite them.

I recognize this a lot. I've always suffered from huge abandonment fears ... .

Abandonment - I think this scares most of us. Even the strongest.

A very strong Defence Mechanism (weapon), that pwBPD will use to relieve their pain and suffering. Especially when we start running around, doing everything we can to avoid the abandoning they threaten us with.

They love it. Rather let me put that in another way - It helps them relieve the pain / suffering they are experiencing.

We've just got to have our boundaries and limits in place. I think that is very important.

Otherwise we will suffer. To the point of depression and even insanity. I've been there, and sometimes still right in the middle of it.

But I'm learning a lot from you guys and this site. Takes time, I guess. Thanks.

[Moselle]

Abandonment - I think this scares most of us. Even the strongest.

A very strong Defence Mechanism (weapon), that pwBPD will use to relieve their pain and suffering. Especially when we start running around, doing everything we can to avoid the abandoning they threaten us with.

They love it. Rather let me put that in another way - It helps them relieve the pain / suffering they are experiencing.

We've just got to have our boundaries and limits in place. I think that is very important.

Otherwise we will suffer. To the point of depression and even insanity. I've been there, and sometimes still right in the middle of it.

Wow, this is really insightful Lucky One.

We have to disengage to the point where we are no longer affected by the raging, manipulations and mind games.  But stay engaged enough to validate and empathise. A delicate balance to negotiate. After years with no boundaries, it's easy to go rigid with boundaries and become mechanical about it.

You're right. I'm also scared of abandonment. How did you find out that abandonment scares you?

[Indyan]

We have to disengage to the point where we are no longer affected by the raging, manipulations and mind games.  But stay engaged enough to validate and empathise. A delicate balance to negotiate.

wow, is this possible?

[Moselle]

wow, is this possible?

If we sent someone to the moon, this must be possible 

I'm still learning Indyan, but the Stop walking on eggshells book says the three C's and the three G's

I didn't Cause it.

I can't Control it.

I can't Cure it.

Get off the BP's back.

Get out of the BP's way.

Get on with your own life.

[Lucky One]

Abandonment - I think this scares most of us. Even the strongest.

A very strong Defence Mechanism (weapon), that pwBPD will use to relieve their pain and suffering. Especially when we start running around, doing everything we can to avoid the abandoning they threaten us with.

They love it. Rather let me put that in another way - It helps them relieve the pain / suffering they are experiencing.

We've just got to have our boundaries and limits in place. I think that is very important.

Otherwise we will suffer. To the point of depression and even insanity. I've been there, and sometimes still right in the middle of it.

You're right. I'm also scared of abandonment. How did you find out that abandonment scares you?

I FEEL it.  I THINK it.

I feel then think it- or - I think then feel it. I've done 4/5th of CBT course on this site. The last section will be completed this week. Hopefully this will help and / or relieve the sadness / depression, I'm feeling .

I'm scared of being alone and being rejected. I've "GOT TO HAVE" someone, who really loves me. Then I FEEL good. Well, I'm working to change this thinking, I got from a young age.

I was rejected by both my parents when I was a child. So I guess this has something to do with it!

When my uBPDw accuses me falsely, and says she's going to leave, I panic! And start running around, trying to save everything.

This is normal thinking, to me - I've been 38 years in this relationship. 32 years married.

The thinking - that's too much to throw away!

But NOT so much anymore, since I came to this site. I'm getting stronger and wiser and unspoken boundaries and limits are being put in place.

Only Time will tell, if they work. It's different in every case. We all are so unique. Even our relationships!

[Moselle]

I feel then think it- or - I think then feel it. I've done 4/5th of CBT course on this site. The last section will be completed this week. Hopefully this will help and / or relieve the sadness / depression, I'm feeling .

Is this the MoodGym one? I'm really keen to try it. I've scheduled some time to have a look at it today.

Awareness is so important in all of this. I'm quite surprised how much I managed to deny, or pretend it wasn't happening, over the years.

Well done - you sound well on your way!

[waverider]

We have to disengage to the point where we are no longer affected by the raging, manipulations and mind games.  But stay engaged enough to validate and empathise. A delicate balance to negotiate.

wow, is this possible?

You are unlikely to have 100% success but you can get a close enough to it for it not to be a major stresser. More importantly when it is, you will know why, and come back down quickly and wash it away.

[Lucky One]

I feel then think it- or - I think then feel it. I've done 4/5th of CBT course on this site. The last section will be completed this week. Hopefully this will help and / or relieve the sadness / depression, I'm feeling .

Is this the MoodGym one? I'm really keen to try it. I've scheduled some time to have a look at it today.

Awareness is so important in all of this. I'm quite surprised how much I managed to deny, or pretend it wasn't happening, over the years.

Well done - you sound well on your way!

Yes - it's Mood Gym.

Afraid it cannot be done in one day - the brain has to process it slowly!

Then we've got to make sense of it. Then it's got to become meaningful.

Meaning - We hold up the process - because our thinking is stubbornly pulling us back.

Meaning - When it starts working it becomes meaningful.

Meaning - In my case - When I THINK and then FEEL I'm becoming less depressed, I KNOW it's starting to work.

This will give it meaning, to me.

But it is a process - and therefore - takes a little bit of time, revision, practicing the method.

It's good, but you've got to feel it. Think it! Get rid of the skewed and warped thinking. Otherwise I wouldn't be wasting my time with it.

Take your time. At least four weeks. Minimum.

When I'm finished with this I'm going to do DBT. Also for free. Why! Because it is for people with BPD.

Sorry to say we've all got some BPD and other PD disorders to varying degrees. Some strong, some weak, some nothing or almost next to nothing

So, I reckon, while I'm sorting these other issues out and learning as much as I can, I might as well sort myself out, as best I can.

I just want to MAKE SURE this NEVER HAPPENS again.

It's too painful - especially at my age. I'll die of a heart attack.  

I WANT peace and quiet.

I'll worry about my NEEDS later!

It's truly hard. I never dreamt I'd be going through this in the last years of my life. Terrible!

But that's where I am - so I have to face it and deal with it. There is NO OTHER CHOICE!

I think that's what most of us are doing, on this excellent site.

[waverider]

I feel then think it- or - I think then feel it. I've done 4/5th of CBT course on this site. The last section will be completed this week. Hopefully this will help and / or relieve the sadness / depression, I'm feeling .

Is this the MoodGym one? I'm really keen to try it. I've scheduled some time to have a look at it today.

Awareness is so important in all of this. I'm quite surprised how much I managed to deny, or pretend it wasn't happening, over the years.

Well done - you sound well on your way!

Yes - it's Mood Gym.

Afraid it cannot be done in one day - the brain has to process it slowly!

Then we've got to make sense of it. Then it's got to become meaningful.

Meaning - We hold up the process - because our thinking is stubbornly pulling us back.

Meaning - When it starts working it becomes meaningful.

Meaning - In my case - When I THINK and then FEEL I'm becoming less depressed, I KNOW it's starting to work.

This will give it meaning, to me.

But it is a process - and therefore - takes a little bit of time, revision, practicing the method.

It's good, but you've got to feel it. Think it! Get rid of the skewed and warped thinking. Otherwise I wouldn't be wasting my time with it.

Take your time. At least four weeks. Minimum.

When I'm finished with this I'm going to do DBT. Also for free. Why! Because it is for people with BPD.

Sorry to say we've all got some BPD and other PD disorders to varying degrees. Some strong, some weak, some nothing or almost next to nothing

So, I reckon, while I'm sorting these other issues out and learning as much as I can, I might as well sort myself out, as best I can.

I just want to MAKE SURE this NEVER HAPPENS again.

It's too painful - especially at my age. I'll die of a heart attack.  

I WANT peace and quiet.

I'll worry about my NEEDS later!

It's truly hard. I never dreamt I'd be going through this in the last years of my life. Terrible!

But that's where I am - so I have to face it and deal with it. There is NO OTHER CHOICE!

I think that's what most of us are doing, on this excellent site.

A very upbeat and positive post that brings it all down to the point that we are flushing out our minds, and strengthening healthy thinking.

This will have positive flow on effects to your general outlook on life.

A mind detox in effect

[Moselle]

You are unlikely to have 100% success but you can get a close enough to it for it not to be a major stresser. More importantly when it is, you will know why, and come back down quickly and wash it away.

Wow, that seems like a powerful place to be. Where it isn't a major stressor. Is that also linked to our self esteem? Where it doesn't trigger the childhood wound which attracted me in the first place to the idolization phase?

[waverider]

You are unlikely to have 100% success but you can get a close enough to it for it not to be a major stresser. More importantly when it is, you will know why, and come back down quickly and wash it away.

Wow, that seems like a powerful place to be. Where it isn't a major stressor. Is that also linked to our self esteem? Where it doesn't trigger the childhood wound which attracted me in the first place to the idolization phase?

Self esteem is a big part of it along with separating the disorder from the person. This is why I dont like the use of the term " a Borderline" to describe the person, they are not the disorder, they are a person with borderline personality disorder.

[Lucky One]

This will have positive flow on effects to your general outlook on life.

A mind detox in effect

Yes, I agree with that, fully. "Because" it works. Proof.

I reach retirement age, at the end of next month. Only two more pay days left for me!

The CEO, Chief Executive Officer, has just asked me to stay on for another two to three years, without me asking.

He thinks, my health is good, my attitude is good and my work and the department I run, is good.

I wasn't even thinking that, I went to his office to go and find out if he was starting to feel better after a bout of the Flu.

Amazing how things can work out.

Which just shows, that we cannot be in control of everything, nor do we have to be, to have good things happen to us!

JUST  A   THOUGHT.

I started to have a look at DBT last night, by doing a detailed "overview" analysis of what the course covers from the Wikipeadia site.

The actual course I'll be doing comes from the DBTselfhelp site. This is a huge piece of work. But I'm going to do it, because I really liked what I saw.

Maybe take a year, or more even, because I want to fully embrace it - so that it becomes part of me!

This terminology, such as Dearman, Pleasemaster, Accepts, RCT's and many others, are now beginning to make sense (meaningful), and I now know where these terms come from - DBT training.

I really FEEL that I am starting to make some "really serious progress" with myself. Did not know about all these things, before I came to BPD family. 

Amazing - at this age - I might even end up perfect! Who can say

[ziniztar]

This is why I dont like the use of the term " a Borderline" to describe the person, they are not the disorder, they are a person with borderline personality disorder.

Do you remember the detergent commercials in the 90’s of a piece of clothing with a stain on it? Coffee, grass, wine...

They zoomed in on the fibre of the clothing to show how persistent the stain was.

That’s how I look at BPD. It’s not part of the fibre. It has manifested on a very deep level, but it “is” not the fibre.

It’s also how I look at the both of us dealing with BPD. Let’s say you have a big, nasty grass stain on your favourite sweater.

Nobody would throw it out immediately, right?

No, first you wash it with your regular detergent.

When it gets out of the machine and the stain is not gone, you can get disappointed. But hey, it’s your favourite sweater  . Let’s try something else.

Vanish Oxy Action, bleach, or maybe you call your mom for some advice.

It’s also how I look at the possible outcome of treatment and what our relationship could be like.

If a stain is this persistent, this bad, it will never really leave. It will always be there and you have to accept it will. It will never be the favourite sweater you thought it was.

But making an effort to make the stain disappear on the outside is worth a shot.

Zooming in on the fibre again might reveal the old stain, but the sweater is fine on the outside and you’re very comfortable wearing it.

The thing is. If the clothing gets out of the machine and isn’t clean, you have to try something else.

Some people tend to re-use the same detergent against better judgement over and over again, only to get disappointed again when getting the clothing out of the washing machine. 

Can you really blame the sweater at that point?   

[waverider]

This is why I dont like the use of the term " a Borderline" to describe the person, they are not the disorder, they are a person with borderline personality disorder.

Do you remember the detergent commercials in the 90’s of a piece of clothing with a stain on it? Coffee, grass, wine...

They zoomed in on the fibre of the clothing to show how persistent the stain was.

That’s how I look at BPD. It’s not part of the fibre. It has manifested on a very deep level, but it “is” not the fibre.

It’s also how I look at the both of us dealing with BPD. Let’s say you have a big, nasty grass stain on your favourite sweater.

Nobody would throw it out immediately, right?

No, first you wash it with your regular detergent.

When it gets out of the machine and the stain is not gone, you can get disappointed. But hey, it’s your favourite sweater  . Let’s try something else.

Vanish Oxy Action, bleach, or maybe you call your mom for some advice.

It’s also how I look at the possible outcome of treatment and what our relationship could be like.

If a stain is this persistent, this bad, it will never really leave. It will always be there and you have to accept it will. It will never be the favourite sweater you thought it was.

But making an effort to make the stain disappear on the outside is worth a shot.

Zooming in on the fibre again might reveal the old stain, but the sweater is fine on the outside and you’re very comfortable wearing it.

The thing is. If the clothing gets out of the machine and isn’t clean, you have to try something else.

Some people tend to re-use the same detergent against better judgement over and over again, only to get disappointed again when getting the clothing out of the washing machine. 

Can you really blame the sweater at that point?   

Love that analogy... I might pinch it someday

[Moselle]

This is why I dont like the use of the term " a Borderline" to describe the person, they are not the disorder, they are a person with borderline personality disorder.

Do you remember the detergent commercials in the 90’s of a piece of clothing with a stain on it? Coffee, grass, wine...

They zoomed in on the fibre of the clothing to show how persistent the stain was.

That’s how I look at BPD. It’s not part of the fibre. It has manifested on a very deep level, but it “is” not the fibre.

It’s also how I look at the both of us dealing with BPD. Let’s say you have a big, nasty grass stain on your favourite sweater.

Nobody would throw it out immediately, right?

No, first you wash it with your regular detergent.

When it gets out of the machine and the stain is not gone, you can get disappointed. But hey, it’s your favourite sweater  . Let’s try something else.

Vanish Oxy Action, bleach, or maybe you call your mom for some advice.

It’s also how I look at the possible outcome of treatment and what our relationship could be like.

If a stain is this persistent, this bad, it will never really leave. It will always be there and you have to accept it will. It will never be the favourite sweater you thought it was.

But making an effort to make the stain disappear on the outside is worth a shot.

Zooming in on the fibre again might reveal the old stain, but the sweater is fine on the outside and you’re very comfortable wearing it.

The thing is. If the clothing gets out of the machine and isn’t clean, you have to try something else.

Some people tend to re-use the same detergent against better judgement over and over again, only to get disappointed again when getting the clothing out of the washing machine. 

Can you really blame the sweater at that point?   

Love that analogy... I might pinch it someday

Thanks for sharing Ziniztar! That is such a healthy way of looking at it.

[thereishope]

I then noticed that I didn't like who I was very much when I was reacting to those fears. I liked who I was much better when I acknowledged the fears, but did what I felt was right despite them.

I recognize this a lot. I've always suffered from huge abandonment fears but felt i was entitled to the care/nurturing/comfort I was looking for and that I had a right to demand this. Now in T I am learning that I can't project whatever I feel towards my father and stepmother, to dBPDbf. Or friends, for that matter.

It's dangerous when people advise others to 'follow your heart'. I learnt 2 years ago that that hadn't worked for me, but I didn't know what to change yet. Now I know there is a difference between following your gut feeling (intuition), and following your emotions. Since I started not always following my emotions (fears mostly, guilt and shame too) I feel so much more together. Like an adult. Powerful.

Can you share HOW you stopped allowing your feelings to rule. ... .WHAT you did/do instead?

Thank you! 

[MaroonLiquid]

Feelings will always mislead you.  I listen to God's voice and He hasn't steered me wrong in this.  Yesterday, my wife asked me to keep them on my insurance (she wanted the separation and her insurance is way too expensive    One of many things I tried to warn her about 3 months ago when all this started, but she was so dysregulated, she wouldn't listen), so at first, because I love her, I said ok.  Then, we were texting, I noticed something.  When I talked about how thankful I was for my job and the insurance they provide (which is top notch), she would be fine communicating and agreeable.  I sent her a picture of me before I lost all my weight (fluctuates between 75-80 lbs), and thanked her for all of her support and love during it (which she was), no response.  I realized something at that point, she wouldn't respond to matters of the heart, but willing to be on my insurance  .  I called her on it.  I said I had rethought it and she will need to meet me to discuss it.  She dysregulated and had an extinction burst, but I never responded except with, "ok wife, have a good night", and left her alone.  I know she is mad, but this crossed a value line with me.  Right now, she wants all the benefits of marriage (me being a support system when she needs something) with none of the responsibility (living together and truly working on our marriage).  She has created a scenario in her mind that it will be too difficult to fix because she has created so much bad blood with her family.  I would and will be there every step of the way, but that is hers to work out and I won't shield her from that.

[Grey Kitty]

Can you share HOW you stopped allowing your feelings to rule. ... .WHAT you did/do instead?

For me, the first step was to work on noticing my feelings, as much as I could immediately when I was feeling them.

If I don't notice my feelings, I often blindly react to them before I've seen what happened.

Often there are other feelings that come up in reaction to the original feeling... .so there is a lot to notice. For example, if you feel angry at someone, may have felt hurt by something they did first, then moved into anger. It is very easy to react to the anger by saying something mean back to them before you noticed any of your feelings.

In a r/s like this, you probably end up in similar situations again and again... .so you have the advantage of being able to look back after the fact at a scenario where you made things worse this way. When you deconstruct it later, you will be able to see places where you could respond in different ways that are more useful. This also means you have lots of chances to practice. And as I got practice, I found that I was able to catch myself earlier in the "trainwreck" and re-direct sooner when less damage had been done.

It can help a lot to start a thread here for a specific example of one of those situations, and ask for advice--Someone will have been through it already!

[waverider]

Can you share HOW you stopped allowing your feelings to rule. ... .WHAT you did/do instead?

For me, the first step was to work on noticing my feelings, as much as I could immediately when I was feeling them.

If I don't notice my feelings, I often blindly react to them before I've seen what happened.

Often there are other feelings that come up in reaction to the original feeling... .so there is a lot to notice. For example, if you feel angry at someone, may have felt hurt by something they did first, then moved into anger. It is very easy to react to the anger by saying something mean back to them before you noticed any of your feelings.

This is important, and an example of mindfullness. Being aware of the moment, senses and emotions. This allows a buffer for the executive mind to confer with the emotional mind and thus providing a better informed action for the wise mind to put into play.

What is really happening?

What is relevant to the now?

What influences are at play?

What do I feel, and why?

What are my options,?

Why are these the options?

What are the consequences of acting on these options?

Is this important?

Am I being reactionary?

Often this buffer allows issues to come and go without triggering any reaction, which would only have made things worse.

[ziniztar]

I do think this is really difficult. I am taught to show real emotions as they serve a purpose. On the other hand I don't want to submit to triggers.

This morning I got really mad.

dBPDbf blamed me (literally) for being late, because I had shut of his alarm clock

I woke him up 8 minutes later, he got up, stood in the shower for 15 minutes, was really laid back the entire morning... Once we got outside on our bikes and we had to walk because of a flat tire, all of a sudden it was 'all my fault' we were late because of the 8 minutes he lost at the beginning of the morning

Old reaction: feel mad, not show the anger being afraid for his reaction, building up resentment and blowing it out another time

New reaction: noticing how I got mad (there's that mindfulness kind of thing) - checking if I was right to be mad - and then letting it out

I even managed to say he was actually right about the alarm clock, yet that I was furious about 'blaming' me for being late, the whole 'blaming' in general annoys the living hell out of me.

Anyway. Point being: I took a minor check to see if my emotion was okay. Instead of thinking 'I don't f()#*%# care!' (that would be answering to triggers), or in stead of thinking 'I have to shush this issue because otherwise we'll have a fight, and I am the only one who can do this', I checked what was appropriate for this moment. It can take 1 second, I think it shouldn't take too long otherwise you're already over-analyzing / filtering your response.  

1 important thing in sensing your real emotions is finding out why you might be blocking or not allowing some of them. I found out in T that I would not allow anger because I felt guilty to stand up for what I wanted, and fearful of someone else's reaction. You won't be able to experience those 'true' emotions unless you know what is keeping them back.

[waverider]

I do think this is really difficult. I am taught to show real emotions as they serve a purpose. On the other hand I don't want to submit to triggers.

This morning I got really mad.

dBPDbf blamed me (literally) for being late, because I had shut of his alarm clock

I woke him up 8 minutes later, he got up, stood in the shower for 15 minutes, was really laid back the entire morning... Once we got outside on our bikes and we had to walk because of a flat tire, all of a sudden it was 'all my fault' we were late because of the 8 minutes he lost at the beginning of the morning

Old reaction: feel mad, not show the anger being afraid for his reaction, building up resentment and blowing it out another time

New reaction: noticing how I got mad (there's that mindfulness kind of thing) - checking if I was right to be mad - and then letting it out

I even managed to say he was actually right about the alarm clock, yet that I was furious about 'blaming' me for being late, the whole 'blaming' in general annoys the living hell out of me.

Anyway. Point being: I took a minor check to see if my emotion was okay. Instead of thinking 'I don't f()#*%# care!' (that would be answering to triggers), or in stead of thinking 'I have to shush this issue because otherwise we'll have a fight, and I am the only one who can do this', I checked what was appropriate for this moment. It can take 1 second, I think it shouldn't take too long otherwise you're already over-analyzing / filtering your response.  

1 important thing in sensing your real emotions is finding out why you might be blocking or not allowing some of them. I found out in T that I would not allow anger because I felt guilty to stand up for what I wanted, and fearful of someone else's reaction. You won't be able to experience those 'true' emotions unless you know what is keeping them back.

You are on the right path. It is not about denying your emotions or right to display them. It is about not being reactionary and taking time to not be destructive in the way you display them. It is, as always, retraining of your own personality, and it will feel unnatural and forced, unfair even, at first. As your personality changes a lot of this reformatting of the way you process triggers becomes automatic. You will find it easier to see the more important issues and be able to express your emotions more effectively, with more clarity. Without "loosing it" (well not as much anyway )

Reactionary behavior sees you moving off topic and away from the moral ground very quickly. Reactionary sparring is joining the pwBPD in their game, and they will beat you with experience.

[Lucky One]

You are on the right path. It is not about denying your emotions or right to display them. It is about not being reactionary and taking time to not be destructive in the way you display them. It is, as always, retraining of your own personality, and it will feel unnatural and forced, unfair even, at first. As your personality changes a lot of this reformatting of the way you process triggers becomes automatic. You will find it easier to see the more important issues and be able to express your emotions more effectively, with more clarity. Without "loosing it" (well not as much anyway )

Reactionary behavior sees you moving off topic and away from the moral ground very quickly. Reactionary sparring is joining the pwBPD in their game, and they will beat you with experience.

I'm HAPPY to say that your answer is 100 % correct. Why!

Because it happens in true life. I've experienced it.

Reactionary sparring with a pwBPD is absolutely a waste of time, and most times the end result or consequence is very, very painful for both partners. It's a NOBODY wins situation.

I've stopped doing it.

[ziniztar]

You are on the right path. It is not about denying your emotions or right to display them. It is about not being reactionary and taking time to not be destructive in the way you display them.

Thanks .

I can do this when situations are 'neutral', or when he does something that bothers me (like demanding me to call instead of asking nicely). But when he accuses me of something I'm not responsible for I tend to snap. I even had a friend that accused me of abandoning her (in a 2 page whatsapp message, how grown-up) while these were obviously HER abandonment issues. There is a very strong urge inside me that refuses to 'accept' false accusations. Where would that come from and how can you deal with it? It seems like it's the main situation that I can't really deal with yet.

[waverider]

You are on the right path. It is not about denying your emotions or right to display them. It is about not being reactionary and taking time to not be destructive in the way you display them.

Thanks .

I can do this when situations are 'neutral', or when he does something that bothers me (like demanding me to call instead of asking nicely). But when he accuses me of something I'm not responsible for I tend to snap. I even had a friend that accused me of abandoning her (in a 2 page whatsapp message, how grown-up) while these were obviously HER abandonment issues. There is a very strong urge inside me that refuses to 'accept' false accusations. Where would that come from and how can you deal with it? It seems like it's the main situation that I can't really deal with yet.

I have the same issue, I can let a lot go but there are boundaries where i will get very firm. The difference is I am now more prepared for it and can come down quite hard with the confidence of not being side tracked. Then cut it short not allowing escalation. Its almost surgical in nature. make the essential point, focused, then out and let it rest without laboring it.

In truth I would say most conflict in our RS is now started and finished by me. Having no conflict would be abnormal, the important thing is it is not being dictated by a pwBPD as that leads to chaos.

Most of the major issues are reoccurring issues so you have plenty of time to prepare

[Lucky One]

You are on the right path. It is not about denying your emotions or right to display them. It is about not being reactionary and taking time to not be destructive in the way you display them.

Thanks .

I can do this when situations are 'neutral', or when he does something that bothers me (like demanding me to call instead of asking nicely). But when he accuses me of something I'm not responsible for I tend to snap. I even had a friend that accused me of abandoning her (in a 2 page whatsapp message, how grown-up) while these were obviously HER abandonment issues. There is a very strong urge inside me that refuses to 'accept' false accusations. Where would that come from and how can you deal with it? It seems like it's the main situation that I can't really deal with yet.

May I ask you to look at my very first two posts under my profile.

I've listed a whole lot of false accusations there, that I have had to experience.

Be interested to know, whether some of these have happened to you.

There were others not mentioned but all are:

1.  :)istortion of the actual facts.

2.  :)istortion of the actual truth.

3.  False additions (magnifications and imaginations) to the actual and true facts.

Seems that false accusations, like these, are part of the sickness that a pwBPD will experience.

Their thoughts, and therefore feelings, and therefore emotions, and therefore imaginations, just go totally haywire. It's crazy. Don't really understand it, and I'm really trying to see how their feelings of potential abandonment comes into it.

And then, we have to do one of two things. ONLY TWO. That I know of.

1. Run away from home, or

2. Stay, but wise up, what to do.

I'm busy with the second one. It's going to be a long road, I think.

But this morning, I got a silent raging look and raging body language, and then a friendly smile, instead of a rage and silent treatment.

But still no hugs and kisses. For about three months now. She won't allow it. Amazing!

Love, Faithfulness, Loyalty, Support, Patience, Understanding, etc.etc. are NOT enough for her. Her emotions are the BOSS, of her. And she's not prepared to do anything about this.

She's still denies there's anything wrong or even questionable, with the situation, and therefore does nothing to improve her quality of life or the quality of the marriage.

It's all my fault. Even her false accusations. But they are not false to her.

Love and BPD - it's no contest. You can't win. Although some have. Just read some of the success stories under the staying board. Very inspirational. These members changed. I'm sure!

You can only change, YOURSELF.

That's only my opinion, now.

We'll see, if this changes over time!

[waverider]

You are on the right path. It is not about denying your emotions or right to display them. It is about not being reactionary and taking time to not be destructive in the way you display them.

Thanks .

I can do this when situations are 'neutral', or when he does something that bothers me (like demanding me to call instead of asking nicely). But when he accuses me of something I'm not responsible for I tend to snap. I even had a friend that accused me of abandoning her (in a 2 page whatsapp message, how grown-up) while these were obviously HER abandonment issues. There is a very strong urge inside me that refuses to 'accept' false accusations. Where would that come from and how can you deal with it? It seems like it's the main situation that I can't really deal with yet.

May I ask you to look at my very first two posts under my profile.

I've listed a whole lot of false accusations there, that I have had to experience.

Be interested to know, whether some of these have happened to you.

There were others not mentioned but all are:

1.  :)istortion of the actual facts.

2.  :)istortion of the actual truth.

3.  False additions (magnifications and imaginations) to the actual and true facts.

Seems that false accusations, like these, are part of the sickness that a pwBPD will experience.

Their thoughts, and therefore feelings, and therefore emotions, and therefore imaginations, just go totally haywire. It's crazy. Don't really understand it, and I'm really trying to see how their feelings of potential abandonment comes into it.

And then, we have to do one of two things. ONLY TWO. That I know of.

1. Run away from home, or

2. Stay, but wise up, what to do.

I'm busy with the second one. It's going to be a long road, I think.

But this morning, I got a silent raging look and raging body language, and then a friendly smile, instead of a rage and silent treatment.

But still no hugs and kisses. For about three months now. She won't allow it. Amazing!

Love, Faithfulness, Loyalty, Support, Patience, Understanding, etc.etc. are NOT enough for her. Her emotions are the BOSS, of her. And she's not prepared to do anything about this.

She's still denies there's anything wrong or even questionable, with the situation, and therefore does nothing to improve her quality of life or the quality of the marriage.

It's all my fault. Even her false accusations. But they are not false to her.

Love and BPD - it's no contest. You can't win. Although some have. Just read some of the success stories under the staying board. Very inspirational. These members changed. I'm sure!

You can only change, YOURSELF.

That's only my opinion, now.

We'll see, if this changes over time!

These kinds of accustations are common and are probably based on the fact that she thinks she must be unloveable, so you must be finding love elsewhere or at least potentially will.

This focusing on what you might be doing passes the responsibility for the problem onto you and away from her (ie why she thinks she is not worthy). It is projection. She is projecting her thinking she is flawed and projecting that you must think that. Making her a victim of your betrayal rather than a betrayal of herself. She cannot handle the responsibility for something that she is not capable of fixing herself. Accepting responsibility for something you are not capable of fixing leads to depression and hopelessness.

She is actually telling you that she thinks she is not worthy.

Truth, distortion and fictions, there is no difference they are all pigments which are freely mixed to paint a picture to give the closest shade that represents how she feels.

Defending, or trying to eliminate some of these "truths" is like taking some of these pigments away from her. She will see this as a hostile act. She does not value absolute truths the same as you do. She is an abstract artist, dont look for realism.

The point of boundaries is not to force realism, it is only to protect you from things that you are not capable of accepting. This is different for everyone.

[formflier]

Love and BPD - it's no contest. You can't win.  

You can only change, YOURSELF.

I think your opinion will change... .with faithful use of lessons, some appropriate detaching from the situation to be objective and help make good choices.  

I'll share a story that used to be commonplace in my marriage... .I sounded very much like you.

Formflier story time is in session... .(cue the movie effect... fade to years ago... .before I ever knew there was such a thing as BPD... .)

So... wife and I are out with several of our younger kids... .it's a great day.  We have some time to kill so I ask if we should stop at a McDonalds to use playland and kill some time.  We do this all the time... .happily she agrees and in we go.  We are relaxing... .having a coffee... .watching kids... reading paper.  There are group of women in their with small kids.  One lady has a baby that is several months old.

At some point my wife hears the lady call out her baby's name... .I heard it as well.  My wife's name is a bit unique... .not strange... just not common.  So... .if Susie is a common name... .the Melody would be unique.  (not actual names... just trying to describe).  Anyway... .I perk up at this.  My wife says something to her... to confirm the name... .the exchange seems pleasant.  Me... .being cludo and never having been beaten up by this particular incident before and walking towards edge of the cliff... .and I have no idea.  (movie effect time... .fade to scene of "nons" as sheep... walking towards the slaughterhouse of dysregulation... .baaaaaahhhhh... .the crowd can see this... but poor formflier... .doesn't see the danger)

Ah... .but this is hollywood... .no... .even better... .this is formflier's actual life with a pwBPD... .so the movie gets better.

Turns out... .this lady is also a militant breastfeeding type.  Shirt comes up... .no cover... .baby gets attached.  FF realizes what is going on and is conscious to avoid looking... .FF does the right thing and doesn't even get a free peek at some boobs.  He is erroneously smiling to himself (in his mind) that his wife will be pleased as his display of self control.

Well... we pack up and go and I think nothing of it until I'm asked if I know her... .I answer no... and it's not that big a deal... .yet.  (Key up the ominous music for the movie... .look outside the window and see it raining... .in fact storming and lightning... .)

It turns out that there is a separate movie playing in my wife's head.  In this movie formflier is a player... .and quite a creative person.  Turns out that formflier has been carrying on a relationship with woman and got her pregnant.  He loves kids and wanted to introduce the baby to his wife... .hence the plan to stop by McDs.  However... .formflier doesn't want the rest of the world to know this... .but loves his new child.  He loves that new child so much... and is so sneaky that he decides to name that child the same name as his wife.  So... .if ff's wife's name is Melody Sillystory... .and he names his illegitimate kid Melody... .and uses his last name on the birth certificate... then the kids name will also be Melody Sillystory.  That will allow the child to be snuck onto Tricare (government military insurance)... .with nobody being the wiser.  That formflier... .being a commander type in the military... .knows these things and knows how to manipulate the system.  He has been manipulating his wife for as long as he has known her... .but now... .due to the detective skills of his wife... .he has been busted.  Poor FF... .the plan has fallen apart.

I deny this... and summon my inner super hero... ."logical man" (key the scene of formflier jumping in a phone booth... superman style... .and emerging with a cape and a big L (for logic) on his chest... .of course the costume is tight to reveal my masculine features... .(hey... .this is my movie... .stop rolling your eyes... .)... )

Anyway... .logic man drives his wife to the nearest tricare service center (government administration place) and we look up how many people are on our insurance.  The superhero asks the technician if they can tell us how long ago someone was added or deleted.  They tell us this... .and no changes have been made in a year or so.  "Logic man" smiles to himself as they leave the building that the evil story has been squashed... .VICTORY IS HIS... . 

A quick trip through the phone booth... logic man goes away and mild mannered formflier re-emerges (with masculine features appropriate hidden now... .) and goes on about his day.

Well... .the story comes back in the middle of that evening... .logic has not worked.

And then stays hidden for months.

Comes back again... .only now my wife has found the lady on facebook and messaged her about the baby.  The lady must think my wife is nutter... .and blocks pics of her baby... .so my wife asks why.  But she knows why... .she knows I have called lady and told her to put baby in hiding... .to hide my sin.

I bring this up in counseling... .that my wife things I have a love child... .and my wife without a beat says I misunderstood... .poor formflier... .he must be the crazy one.

Formflier and wife and family move to new happy life... .all is forgotten... .or so it seemed.  When story comes back again... .logic man is brought back.  He calls and figures out a paternity test and has it set up to have him tested... .and to have one of his actual kids tested to validate the test.  

My wife wanted to go back to this state for some reason... .and I agreed to it as long as she agreed to go see this woman (she now has her address) and get a paternity test for the baby to let poor formflier off the hook.  Logic man clearly sees that if a paternity test says Melody Sillystory is not his child... .that life can return to "normal" for formflier... .the loving family man.

This plan is ignored and Logic Man decides to discuss this in marriage counseling.  Only to see his wife carefully sidestep the issue... .and declare the baby not his... .and infer that she never said it was... .but that she is sure that formflier was sleeping with the woman.  

The MC pokes and prods at the story some... .and along with some other stress that was going on... .a major dysregulation ensues... .and my wife storms out... .says she is never coming back.

I stayed and for the first time ever heard the phrase "Borderline Personality traits... "  I got the eggshells book... .and within a short time found this website.

Fastforward in time and I wrote this thread about ":)ramatic change is possible... ."

Let me just say... .I will remember all of you when I'm a bigtime movie producer... .  I'm sure my autographs will go for big money!

Anyone want to guess if I completely made up this story... .or is it real?

   

Lucky one... .YOU CAN WIN... .just don't jump in the phone booth and use "logic man"

[waverider]

 

Best laugh I have had for a while.

It is good you can look at this way in hindsight.



I have had a few variations on that theme.

[thereishope]

Oh my goodness... .FF, that was amazing/hilarious/uncomfortable/sad/horrifying/excellent all at once!  LOL

How on earth you could make that BPD episode (no pun intended) seem so funny is truly a gift.  I was laughing out loud (and smiling on the inside at the reality of LOGIC MAN... .I have one of those myself even tho I'm a girl!) and understanding completely how this could occur.  I'm so sorry!  What a mess... .But so glad you can post this thread now!

Thank you for sharing!  :D

[Lucky One]

Love and BPD - it's no contest. You can't win.  

You can only change, YOURSELF.

I think your opinion will change... .with faithful use of lessons, some appropriate detaching from the situation to be objective and help make good choices.  

Anyone want to guess if I completely made up this story... .or is it real?

   

Lucky one... .YOU CAN WIN... .just don't jump in the phone booth and use "logic man"

Hi Formflier,

When I'm all grown up, I'd like to make a comedy movie as well !

Very Funny NOW - I agree. But NOT then.

When you were in the middle of it, you were totally lost! I can see that.

How long did it take you to learn the right way, to handle these types of chaotic situations.

I've experienced similar, and MORE. Right now. Some things different to yours, perhaps.

Still have a fair road to go. I've only been a member on BPD family for one month.

Still learning lots - things I knew nothing about a month ago. Not even PD's

I've been 38 years in this relationship, 32 years married.  And, I'm learning to STAY, and survive. There's too much to throw away.

Now - there are BIG health problems. Some, maybe similar to what you have experienced, some perhaps totally different.

Graves disease, Hyper thyroidism, very low, almost zero Serotonin levels, wasting away of muscles (including heart) and brain tissue, unbalanced hormone levels, etc. which more than ten doctors, including specialists, Physiatrist and Phycologist, are trying to sort out, for over a year. To no avail, yet.

If you'd seen my W three years ago, and see her NOW, you'd think she had cancer, the way she is wasting away. Very, very sick.  :)efinitely NOT made up. One can see it. Everyday.

And on top of it, she has these severe emotional problems. More than likely brought on by the sickness she is experiencing. I'm only the escape goat, to relieve the fears she is experiencing. It's taken me a long time to realize that.

So, this morning she started with a glaring look and silent rage, and by the time I left for work, she was smiling and thinking about what she was going to study next year. Very positive, but not so dramatic as your dramatic change, yet.

Why did she change, in half an hour. Because I changed - my tactics. The new ones I've been learning here. And "LOGIC", isn't one of them.

I haven't come across the "Phone Booth" yet, so I guess that's still to come, somewhere down the line.

In the meantime, we're trying to find a successful solution. Medically and emotionally.

Wishing you and yours, only the best, at all times.

[Indyan]

Why did she change, in half an hour. Because I changed - my tactics. The new ones I've been learning here. And "LOGIC", isn't one of them.

How did you react?

[formflier]

How on earth you could make that BPD episode (no pun intended) seem so funny is truly a gift.  

Sometimes it is so "over the top"... .that you just have to laugh.  And given the choice between laughing and crying... .I'll laugh whenever I can!   

[formflier]

When you were in the middle of it, you were totally lost! I can see that.

And there was a true belief on my part... .that if I just explained this a bit clearer... .it would all be ok.  Everyone think about that for a bit.  I believed that to my core... .and so my actions followed my core belief.  After educating my self on this site... .I now have a core belief that "objective" truth and "feelings" of a pwBPD should not be mixed... .or that "confrontations" between those two polar opposites should be avoided.

How long did it take you to learn the right way, to handle these types of chaotic situations.

It took a couple months to "stop the bleeding" or not "contribute" to a chaotic situation... .or dysregulation.  Ingrained habits and ways to thinking can be tough to change.  Then another couple months to figure out how to make a situation (dysregulation) better.  That took "detachment"... .so I can be more objective and gain clarity to think while a dysregulation is occurring.  For me "validation" felt clumsy.  My natural style is T... with a bit of SE.  A pwBPD needs SET... .or... .in my reality  SE... .SE... .SE... .t  (emphasis on little t)[/quote]

[Indyan]

  That took "detachment"... .so I can be more objective and gain clarity to think while a dysregulation is occurring.  For me "validation" felt clumsy.  My natural style is T... with a bit of SE.  A pwBPD needs SET... .or... .in my reality  SE... .SE... .SE... .t  (emphasis on little t)

Would you agree that detachment implies not being scared anymore?

Sometimes I wonder if he's not going to take my sudden detachment as "not caring about him anymore"?

[formflier]

 

Detachment is not about him... .it's about you and your feelings.

Yes... there is an element in there of being "less scared".

Separate your actions... which he an see and interpret and your feelings... .which you will keep to yourself

Why shouldn't you "share your feelings" with him. 

Right now you need to "stop the bleeding"... .so you don't want to invalidate.  If your feelings conflict with his... that is bad.

Later on... once things stabilize you want to begin sharing feelings again.

Don't feel like you can never again share feelings... .just not right now.

[Indyan]

Don't feel like you can never again share feelings... .just not right now.

He doesn't seem to care about what I feel anyway... .

Thanks for your advice, I'll keep my "I'm not scared anymore" to myself 

[Grey Kitty]

I loved the movie break, FF! Back to something before it, though... .

I can do this when situations are 'neutral' ... .But when he accuses me of something I'm not responsible for I tend to snap... .There is a very strong urge inside me that refuses to 'accept' false accusations. Where would that come from and how can you deal with it?

Zin, you are getting there. The first step here is one of knowing yourself--know that you get very upset about false accusations. And that is all inside you. It may be for good reasons, it may be for bad reasons. If you examine closely, you will come to understand it better.

My trigger issue was being accused of thinking or feeling something... .that I wasn't thinking or feeling. It doesn't happen much anymore, but when it was happening, sometimes my best response was ":)on't !@#$!@# tell me what I'm thinking." followed by going away to calm down. I'm not going to suggest that as an ideal response... .but I do accept that it was the best I could do at the time. (And better than sticking around to fight for longer, at least!)

My suggestion to you is to plan ahead for the next false accusation... .to find the lowest impact way you can to immediately get at least 15-20 minutes away for you to calm down.

[Indyan]

Zin, you are getting there. The first step here is one of knowing yourself--know that you get very upset about false accusations.

During MC, my T asked each of us what triggered us most. I said "Verbal abuse". BPD said "when my feeling is not validated". Then T said "what are you afraid of?"

I haven't been able to answer this just yet.

I just am. I think it's because I had a verbally abusive mother as a child, and it still terrifies me today.

I have to be able to get over this.

BPD on the other hand talked in length about what he was scared of. Of being crushed. Of not making his own choices etc etc etc.

[ziniztar]

Hahah I now realize the 'stop reacting' is about stop reacting to triggers. I thought someone tried to stop people from reacting to the thread .

Zin, you are getting there. The first step here is one of knowing yourself--know that you get very upset about false accusations. And that is all inside you. It may be for good reasons, it may be for bad reasons. If you examine closely, you will come to understand it better.

Thanks! I was thinking about this today. I don't fully get what is happening yet. I do know I hated my parents 'accusing' me of something stupid without asking whether I had done it. There was no room to discuss anything, accusation meant anger > fear > punishment. Nobody listened to anything I had to say, the opinion was already a fact.

The other day I snapped at a friend that stated that I was abandoning her when that obviously wasn't the case - it was her perception of the situation. It was not that perception (in fact I am VERY emphatic towards that type of feelings), but the fact she stated it as a truth that made me snap. Makes me feel that I am being judged of something that never really was my intention and I hate it that people can't see that. Like I'm doing it on purpose. As if I'm not allowed to make a mistake and slip, do something clumsy. As if I'm doing everything deliberately and intentionally - that is what annoys me about people stating things as if they are facts.

Perhaps that's why I'm also drawn towards waveriders tagline; the truth is out there and open to debate, feelings are inidividual and real. If people tell me they feel like I am abandoning them, I am hurt but can react to it. I am happy they are opening up to me, giving me a chance to explain my side of the story. When people draw their conclusions without calmly discussing something with me, it feels like what I ever intended or feel is unimportant.

Dunno. Not quite there yet. I will take this to T next week... .still don't see why this sets me off in this way.

 

[Grey Kitty]

I think your history of being falsely accused as a child may well explain some of this. Keep looking for feelings and thoughts.

Dunno. Not quite there yet. I will take this to T next week... .still don't see why this sets me off in this way.

Yeah, that is a tough one to figure out, and likely a tough one to change. That's why I suggested the easier but more limited practical step:

Know you will be triggered when it happens. Know that your natural reaction will be a bad one. Plan ahead to give yourself a time-out when you get that sort of accusation... .immediately, and as gently as you can at the time.

... .then when you are "safe" you can try to spend some time with your feelings about the incident and see what they are, and if they are bringing something back, or whatever.

... .and when your emotions have calmed down, you can decide if the false accusation actually needs any response from you, or not.

Strong emotions like this ARE telling you that something important is happening, and you need to pay attention and address it. What they aren't doing is telling you (correctly and immediately) the best thing to do about the situation!

[formflier]

Strong emotions like this ARE telling you that something important is happening, and you need to pay attention and address it. What they aren't doing is telling you (correctly and immediately) the best thing to do about the situation!

This is HUGE!

Thanks Grey Kitty... .

[Rapt Reader]

This thread has been locked, due to reaching its post limit. This is a worthwhile topic, so please feel free to start a new thread to continue the conversation... .