Having trouble unhooking myself

[Krakatoa2]

This is my first post. I'll try and keep it in manageable bites.  I need perspective because I am MASSIVELY confused on why I am 'stuck' in a marriage I can't wait to get out of.  Enmeshment, BPD/Narcissism... .hers or mine? It's all so muddled. HELP ME!

*Married 26 years. Kids all grown.

*About ten years ago, she suddenly opened up on me with a litany of things she didn't like about me, both 'phsyical' and 'character' things. Just out of the blue. 

*Since that opening salvo, she has continued to criticize me pretty regualrly... .things she doesn't like about me. Sex declined to maybe 3-4 times a year, and then, six years ago, it ended completely - by her.  I have gone to her several times to express how painful all of this has been, how I don't really understand why she's doing this or where this is coming from. She very matter-of-factly told me that she doesn't find herself attrected to me anymore and doesn't like a lot of things I do (things like not folding a bath towel the right way, or not noticing right away when a lightbulb is out... .I don't drink, gamble, smoke, no drugs... .I'm a pretty solid human being, make a good living, support her so she can fully pursue her own interests... .)  I know I've door-matted myself, but I wasn't about to go anywhere with kids still in the home... .a factor which is now irrelevant as they're all grown.

*She is content to live this way. She goes around the house I provide for with nary a care in the world --  unless it's something I did, like put the bag of Chex-Mix back on the wrong shelf.  She sighs and huffs (you know how that sounds - the thinly-veiled contempt types of sounds).  The last time she underhandedly criticized me was when we were all together at Christmas... .all the kids... .had just sat down to all chat and be together... .and she looks at me and says, "Why do you drink your coffee that way? hahahaha".  HUH?  I'm a father sitting there sipping coffe, enjoying being with all my kids... .and she drops that barb?  What the heck.

*One the last occasion of sexual intimacy, when we'd finished I told her how nice it had been and how I hoped we could get our love life back on track... .and she came right back, calmly, and told me if I felt I really had to have it, I was free to see a prostitute if I promised to wear a condom.  That was 6.5 years ago.

*She is CONTENT now that she has everything the way she wants it. The parts that really kill me each time are when she brings up future things --  "Let's go to Mexico next summer", that kind of thing.

*WHAT IS WRONG WITH HER?

*It doesn't matter what it is, I'm so totally done. I can't wait to get out of here. It's killing me (perhaps literally if this goes on).  BUT... .despite ALL of what I've posted above, I am AFRAID to tell her I am leaving.  I just can't get up the anger or courage or whatever it is I need to open my mouth for one last conversation  before stepping into freedom and a new life. WHAT IS THIS?  I can't understand this at all. What am I afraid of? How am I so entangled that I'm afraid to save my life?  I don't get it at all.

*So, I have been going around, trying to follow the breadcrumbs of understanding what is at work here... .and here I am.

*I am in a situation where therapy or counseling is not do-able.  It's just not. 

*Help

*Thank you in advance

[vortex of confusion]

 

Only you can answer these questions! :-)

I have been married to mine for 16.5 years (together almost 18) and I completely understand where you are coming from with some of your questions.

I know that part of the reason I stay is out of habit. Yes, this sucks but what if the stuff that comes later is even worse? And then, there are the financial parts. And, there are things like societal stuff and I don't want to be seen as a failure. When I married my husband, I thought it would be forever. Now, I cannot imagine spending the rest of my life with him. Frankly, I would rather die than grow old with him. Right now, I still have 4 young kids at home so there is no chance of me leaving right away.

It is really difficult to untangle all of this mess. I would recommend starting with the lessons that you can find on the sides of the boards. The staying board has great tools for finding some sort of peace while you sort stuff out. The undecided board has lessons that are great to help take inventory and get into some kind of decent headspace and the leave board is great for helping to emotionally detach. I tend to bounce back and forth between the boards. Detaching and untangling something that has been developing for so many years is going to take a while to sort out.

Be kind to yourself!

[adventurer]

I'm pretty new here myself so I'm not sure how much advice I can offer, but I will say if therapy is not really an option right now, the books 'No More Mr. Nice Guy' and 'Codependent No More' really opened my eyes to a lot of things and have given me some great resources to help change the only thing that is in my power to change, myself.  Stop Walking On Eggshells and Human Magnet Syndrome are two other books I would recommend as well.

[letmeout]

I think we have all been in your shoes.

Start by getting outside interests and spend as much time away from the spouse as possible. This will cause a firestorm within her and it will become hell,  but it will force you to honestly look at what you have to deal with, which in turn makes getting out of there your # 1 priority, and then you will find the strength to escape!

I had to give up everything I had, but the last 3 years have been wonderfully peaceful without my BPD ex around! Freedom from living with crazy is priceless.  

[Krakatoa2]

Thank you all for the replies.  I've been churning and grinding and grinding and churning on this for years now. I have read the books mentioned plus so many more. I spend almost all of my time by myself (gym), cook my own meals (paleo)... .she LIKES it this way!  This is how far gone we are.

At this point, she is irrelevant and the marriage is irrelevant. I'm down to ONE LAST HURDLE out of here, and that is this bizarre fear that the world will collapse all around me when I go to tell her I'm through.  I guess the issue is not the marriage at all, it's just me. Why am I unable to open my mouth?  I know she will be PISSED... .not because I'm leaving but because in her view I will be pulling the rug of her carefully constructed world out from her completely.  Does that make me feel bad? Yes.  My deal:  I can't even seem to be able to put my own needs first... .almost accepting my own early demise over hurting someone.  I'm afraid she'll yell at me, I'm afraid she'll ridicule me... .but why do I care when I can't stand her anymore and haven't for years?  I'm together enough to see how effed up this is... .but not together enough to make the leap to rationality in escaping this hell. 

I know 'THE Conversation' is super hard for everybody.  But thousands upon thousands, sadly, get their courage up every day.  Why can't I?  If I could write a letter, I would (but I know that's cowardly).  If SHE broached the subject, I would have no trouble telling her I'm done. It's just the idea of me, coming like a bolt from the blue, and hammering her.  It's so against my nature.  And does she not realize HOw messed up this marriage has been all these years?  I don't think so.  Just as she has created the parameters of this freakshow, I truly believe she has made herself believe that I, too, am okay with it, DESPITE my telling her on several occasions how brutal things had become.  She'd always shoot down everything I said... .so I just stopped talking to her about it two years ago... .I guess that's why she's likely come to the conclusion that all is well.  Meanwhile I've been to the brink of suicide and back (that was a year ago - not attempted, just googled)... .she is oblivious to my pain. Either I'm the world's greatest actor or she just doesn't care.  No intimacy, no affection, no I love you's, and only the most logistical of conversations. I can't even stand the sound of her voice anymore.  WHY CAN'T I FIND THE COURAGE TO JUST OPEN MY MOUTH?  UGHHHHHHH. So pissed at myself. 

[Krakatoa2]

Could it be that I try so hard to do everything 'right' and please everyone around me - so strongly - that I can't bear to do something which will shake this flawed self-perception to the core?  That maybe I won't be able to handle the fallout WITHIN myself, or the perceived self-immolation of my own lifelong construct of how I see myself and my value as a human being?  Could that be my primary baseless fear of taking this step?

Hmmmm... .

[vortex of confusion]

I know 'THE Conversation' is super hard for everybody.  But thousands upon thousands, sadly, get their courage up every day.  Why can't I?  If I could write a letter, I would (but I know that's cowardly).  If SHE broached the subject, I would have no trouble telling her I'm done. It's just the idea of me, coming like a bolt from the blue, and hammering her.  It's so against my nature.  And does she not realize HOw messed up this marriage has been all these years?  I don't think so.  Just as she has created the parameters of this freakshow, I truly believe she has made herself believe that I, too, am okay with it, DESPITE my telling her on several occasions how brutal things had become.  She'd always shoot down everything I said... .so I just stopped talking to her about it two years ago... .I guess that's why she's likely come to the conclusion that all is well.  Meanwhile I've been to the brink of suicide and back (that was a year ago - not attempted, just googled)... .she is oblivious to my pain. Either I'm the world's greatest actor or she just doesn't care.  No intimacy, no affection, no I love you's, and only the most logistical of conversations. I can't even stand the sound of her voice anymore.  WHY CAN'T I FIND THE COURAGE TO JUST OPEN MY MOUTH?  UGHHHHHHH. So pissed at myself. 

Go over to the leaving board! Lots of people over there write letters and post them because they know that sending them to their actual partners will fall on deaf ears. I think you are afraid of writing a letter or saying anything because it will likely have one of two results. One result is that she will flat out ignore you and not take you seriously. I know how you feel when you say that you have tried to reach out to her. I did the same thing with my husband. I told him that I had been imagining what it would like to go out in the garage and hang myself. I told him my plan and I told him I would love to be able to see the look on his face when he found me. I wondered if he would even care. I got NOTHING. Well, he did use that against me in a negative way after I told him but he sure as hell didn't say anything or give me any kind of validation or support.

The other option is that it would likely set him off and he would get mad and act like the poor little wounded child. He would be unable to comprehend what my problem is or why I want to leave. He is working on things so I am supposed to just go on with my life with him and completely forget all of the crappy things that he has done.

And they are so insistent that their reality is real and that we are crazy and don't know what we are talking about. Here is a link to the letter that I wrote but will never send because I know that it will likely be ignored or, it will make him too angry and I hate dealing with his temper tantrums: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=235692.0

[1989]

Krakatoa2, I am so sorry you are going through this.  As impossible as it is to believe, it has NOTHING to do with you.

I just sent you a PM.  I have been where you are (and was there for many years.)

1989

[Krakatoa2]

Ho vortex and 1989, I have read your posts/PMs/letter and will respond in more depth as soon as I get some time where I can do so. Thanks for your replies.

[adventurer]

I've been churning and grinding and grinding and churning on this for years now. I have read the books mentioned plus so many more. I spend almost all of my time by myself (gym), cook my own meals (paleo)

I relate to the churning and grinding SO MUCH.  I'm glad you're taking care of yourself (I love paleo diet myself and am much more fit).

After much churning, I finally got the courage to bring up divorce and it resulted in her telling me she had no idea I was so unhappy and accusing me of not caring and not honoring our promises.  Also I was accused of not communicating - same as you - I stopped because it just caused constant conflict and went nowhere.

Anyway, my threat of divorce was the shock she needed to agree to couples therapy with me however, so I am making one last go of things.  She also promised that she was going to seriously apply herself to finding a job (which has not happened as far as I can see, of course.)  For my part, I have agreed to communicate more so I'm back to telling her when I'm disappointed or upset with her - with the tools I've learned about, though, they haven't erupted into crazy fights like in the past - I am able to remained detached, not JADE, and just leave the room if things seem like they will escalate.  Maybe I'm being an idiot about this because I really doubt ANYTHING is going to spur her to change but I'm hoping therapy will help implement some concrete goals and a timeline of expectations that must be met or I'm out.

[Krakatoa2]

For the past 3 years I've been so screwed up.  What may have started out as her issues being projected on to me (main points in my intro above) in a successful coup for relationship control... .has turned to me now dealing with issues of my own in trying to escape.  BPD, narcissism, Emotional Codependence, PTSD, Stockholm Syndrome... .I mean, it's all on the table.  Perhaps the best advice I've ever received came a year or so ago on a Buddhist life support forum (I am not Buddhist, or even Asian, but it's a nice site)... .after a lengthy forum thread which I started, a guy came on and said, "It sounds to me like you've been through the mill. You've read to exhaustion, you've beaten yourself to a pulp, you've had to deal with suicidal thoughts... .have you ever simply considered throwing your hands up in the air and relinquishing ALL control of what will happen to the Universe?"  A little new-agey, yes, but I'll be damned if sometimes we don't just get to a point where our only option left is to throw our hands up in the air, surrender, make our move and let it all sort itself out.

I have come SO far, though it may not seem like it to the casual reader. My God, this has been spiralling for a decade. I hoped and prayed and tried to talk to her for about seven of those years, with nothing gained but more criticisms and deep cuts. For example, I went in where she was sitting to try and let her know how badly I was hurting. I was angry, but not shouting. I didn't beliitle her or name call... .but yes, I was angry out of confusion andd esperation. I used terms like "night mare", "absolute hell", "can't sleep", "I just don't understand this at all"... .apparently she lacks all empathy. You'd think that that expression of duress and pain would elicit SOMEthing from a partner you've been with for a quarter century at that point, raised a family with, and had some very good years with... .but no... .her immediate, IMMEDIATE response was a contempt-filled, "What am I supposed to do, go live with my mom?"  I hadn't even been thinking of separation or divorce at that point. I just wanted my wife and my life back.  That stung.  I believe it shows that she had already been thinking these things through for herself. And now, maybe she's come to the realization that she's actually got it pretty good just staying... .doesn't have to open her legs, the financials are great and she doesn't even have to work (though she works part-time flex now and then) so she can pursue her obsessive need for fitness and to stay thin.

I don't know, gang. I have written all of this before, in various forums, and I'm still just chruning my life away because I'm afraid to open up and say "BLAH!"  I don't get it at all. I'm a gregarious guy, muscular, nice-looking, great job, outdoorsy, all that ___... .I seem like a man's man to the world... .but inside, something is badly broken when I can't even come to terms with saving myself. I must have been severely devalued as a kid or something, who knows.  I've never felt so completely screwed in my whole life... .just churning and grinding away... .and I know that no one can help. I even took the step of writing to my mom six days ago... .a very gut-wrenching but honest portrayal of the whole mess... .and she has yet to reply... .six days... .crickets.  What the heck.  I'm SO on my own.

[adventurer]

I think the buddhists are really onto something with radical acceptance.  Sometimes all the reading, analyzing, thinking, churning needs to stop and just breathing and living needs to happen.

I know you said therapy is out of the question for now, is there anything in your area like a Codependents Anonymous or other group that you could get involved with?  Sometimes the gym is too solitary of an activity, maybe at the very least you could find a social group on meetup.com or somewhere in your community to volunteer to get out among other people for a while?

[vortex of confusion]

I don't know, gang. I have written all of this before, in various forums, and I'm still just chruning my life away because I'm afraid to open up and say "BLAH!"  I don't get it at all. I'm a gregarious guy, muscular, nice-looking, great job, outdoorsy, all that ___... .I seem like a man's man to the world... .but inside, something is badly broken when I can't even come to terms with saving myself. I must have been severely devalued as a kid or something, who knows.  I've never felt so completely screwed in my whole life... .just churning and grinding away... .and I know that no one can help. I even took the step of writing to my mom six days ago... .a very gut-wrenching but honest portrayal of the whole mess... .and she has yet to reply... .six days... .crickets.  What the heck.  I'm SO on my own.

You sound very depressed and hopeless. I so know how that feels. Every time I sit down and try to say something to my husband, I am at a complete loss for words. I know that from my own experience there are days when it just seems so much easier to go with the flow because trying to stand up for myself and be myself is so friggin' difficult. Yeah, maybe it goes back to my childhood but I tend to think that a lot of it is because he misrepresented himself and by the time I figured out what was going on it was too late. It is like that analogy with the frog in the boiling pot. The frog never hops out because things are done so gradually that you don't really notice the water heating up.

YOU can help. Even if you don't know how to talk to her or end things, work on doing more stuff for yourself. Read through the lessons to try to figure out how to become unenmeshed. It is really, really hard but it is a place to start. One little bitty thing at a time.

[letmeout]

1. It sounds like most people here have dealt with some type of childhood abuse or another in our youth. Its ironic that we seem to have an unconscious issue with it until we reach middle age. This is where therapy is very important, and I hope you will reconsider seeing someone.

2. Do you think that you will be more unhappy if you divorce your BPD spouse, or  are you more afraid of finding happiness somewhere else?